Bored at the dealership today

[Showkey]

Why would that be any different? If it's slow you would get sent home with no pay anyway. Most shops aren't going to pay employees to sit around and twiddle their thumbs.

Unless it’s govt shop.

 

[CS454]

This is a mind boggling read. I've always been guaranteed at least 40 hours a week whether it be sweeping floors or changing water pumps. The moment I'd get sent home because "things are slow" is the moment I'd be looking for a new employer. They need you more than you need them, we're into a gigantic labour shortage. Figure there's "we're hiring!" signs here that are badly weathered...including old employers of mine. Either you help me make a living, or I'll find something that will.

Remember your worth.

 

[Professional Tool User]

****, you'd be surprised. My shop pays a guarantee, 18.80 for light duty and 27.15 for Journeyman and they almost never send people home.

I should have clarified that I am aware of hybrid pay systems and minimum hours (especially in a union shop). I was trying to describe both ends of the spectrum.

 

[Fedwrench]

At this point, I'll make my pitch for government fleet work especially if you're a veteran. I worked at a dealership for a few years and did well despite warranty time and recalls but, when no one is spending money on their rides, warranty & recalls can keep you afloat. The great thing about fleet work is it's stable and the benefits are often much better than you have at a dealership or independent shop. Now you won't get rich flagging a 150 hours a pay period but, you won't starve when no work rolls into the shop. it's not as hard on your body in the long run. you won't be viewed as a cash cow for the shop either. I don't have to sell or upsell anyone anything, I don't work on weekends unless there's an emergency. Some fleet jobs are better than others as with all jobs. However, most state and local governments have vehicle fleets with mechanics to maintain them. Who knows, you might get hired as a tech and advance up to running the shop.

 

[MarineScott]

Been slow here too. It picked up for awhile but now is back to being slow at all the shops around me not just mine. That’s why I am looking for a place that pays hourly.

I got a job as the head mechanic working on fleet vehicles. Love it Treated and paid well. Job pays hourly.

 

[Yarpo]

I should have clarified that I am aware of hybrid pay systems and minimum hours (especially in a union shop). I was trying to describe both ends of the spectrum.

Ah yeah Hybrid, I knew there was a term for it. I think we've talked about this before ha.

I'd definitely recommend it as not getting paid is ******** and another ****** side of the industry. I'm also curious if they have a legal obligation to pay minimum wage as American Locamotive pointed out. It sounds like some people are getting nothing...zero, if they have no hours. Doesn't sound legal to me to be honest, but I've heard about so many people either co-workers or members here who came from other shops and weren't paid.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Ah yeah Hybrid, I knew there was a term for it. I think we've talked about this before ha.

I'd definitely recommend it as not getting paid is ******** and another ****** side of the industry. I'm also curious if they have a legal obligation to pay minimum wage as American Locamotive pointed out. It sounds like some people are getting nothing...zero, if they have no hours. Doesn't sound legal to me to be honest, but I've heard about so many people either co-workers or members here who came from other shops and weren't paid.

"Legal" is irrelevant. Looking back over the years, every place I've ever worked across 2 states had blatantly illegal labor practices. Just is what it is. Not just automotive to be fair - it's pretty typical IME.

I wouldn't work straight flat-rate unless I was guaranteed to make my own schedule. No work on the schedule in that morning? Looks like I turn around and walk out the door, have fun with the luber-goobers!

 

[transfocus]

I work for a regional tire chain that is full service. Kinda like a Firestone or Goodyear store. I could complain all day. Corporate reinvests on expanding instead of passing on anything down to the people that make that actual money for the company, and every year there is more micromanagement from the top that does nothing but hinder day to day operations

I get paid commission. 18% on parts and labor except things like oil changes, alignments, batteries, unless extra labor is added, is a flat amount no matter how easy or PITA it is or what car make etc. No garantee or hourly. I also have to average 48 hours clocked in a week or I loose my vacation/paid days off. And even if I was ok with that, the store manager still gets in trouble, so really not even an option, they just make it look like it is. Everytime corporate does something that benefits the employees, they renege a year later or it only benefits only hourly employees. Like the CEO made a lame video how we did good in April, so now we will get the day before the 4th of July off. But I don't get paid holidays and they will count that day as my day off for the week... still need that 48 average... so doesn't amount to jack ****

The labor rate is only $85 an hour (so I make $15.30 on every hour of labor) and they charge less than book time on most jobs... so anything really labor intensive with a cheap part becomes a real **** job. But easy stuff like suspension and brake type work pays well

In Michigan, my commission has to be atleast minimum wage or they have to cover the difference, It's happened to me a few times before, plan for slow weeks. If it's a regular issue, find a busier shop. Clearly states that a job like waiter/waitress's lower hourly wage + tips must meet normal minimum wage. Guess that applies to full commission but minimum wage is only $9.** an hour.

feels like most of my problems are caused by the top or them putting too much pressure on sales, getting into jobs that backfire...

I'm currently really burnt out, worked like 62 hours last week because of vaca coverage and I had to do it a few weeks before now, for 2 weeks in a row because of people out from covid. I haven't had more than 2 days off (in row) for over 2 years and have 2 more months to wait for a week off, I'm pretty sure I put more hours in than anyone at my location. I'm about to look for a new profession. Every generation of car is more difficult to work on, less room to work, more other **** that needs to be removed first and more computers/electric systems that use to be mechanical and require scopes/factory scan tools and other **** to get a 100% diagnosis/fix. My body is getting beat up too

I've wrenched as a full auto tech for about 5 years, 3 years doing alignments and little stuff, and 3 doing tire work hourly. Theirs a shortage for a reason. Someone told me McD's was hiring for $18 hour... it might be boring but way less stress... Why isn't the car done yet? how dare you smoke a cig when the customer is waiting? What do you mean a rusty part broke that I was already warned about on a rusty POS? Why haven't you figured out the problem yet when I'm not paying you diag and you told me it was over your head to start with

 

[2ndGearRubber]

^ I get 20%, but relate. There is no such thing as tech shortages, they simply dont exist. It's a pay and working condition shortage. Pay luber-goober 100k and full benefits, climate controlled shop with ac, shop supplied tools, and no screaming at the techs policy, and people will be lined up.

If the business cant afford to pay for the labor they require, at the price they charge, prices need to rise, profits need to drop, or the business cannot operate in said economic conditions.


Without a strong front desk, you can get in trouble quick. We get the same staffing ********, someone is on vacation and now you're stuck working open to close like a luber-goober making no money.

 

[American Locomotive]

Ah yeah Hybrid, I knew there was a term for it. I think we've talked about this before ha.

I'd definitely recommend it as not getting paid is ******** and another ****** side of the industry. I'm also curious if they have a legal obligation to pay minimum wage as American Locamotive pointed out. It sounds like some people are getting nothing...zero, if they have no hours. Doesn't sound legal to me to be honest, but I've heard about so many people either co-workers or members here who came from other shops and weren't paid.

I just want to clarify that the minimum-wage hours thing only counts for the entire work week. As in your wages must equal minimum wage for the hours you worked by the end of the week.

Only a handful of states require that your you get paid equivalent to minimum wage on a daily basis.

 

[Meursault74]

^ I get 20%, but relate. There is no such thing as tech shortages, they simply dont exist. It's a pay and working condition shortage. Pay luber-goober 100k and full benefits, climate controlled shop with ac, shop supplied tools, and no screaming at the techs policy, and people will be lined up.

If the business cant afford to pay for the labor they require, at the price they charge, prices need to rise, profits need to drop, or the business cannot operate in said economic conditions.


Without a strong front desk, you can get in trouble quick. We get the same staffing ********, someone is on vacation and now you're stuck working open to close like a luber-goober making no money.

Do you think if auto techs required a license from the state like a plumber or electrician that the pay would be higher or that you could command a higher pay rate if you needed that license to do the work?

 

[nadogail]

I once worked for a Plumbing Shop where I was paid good bucks for billable hours; when I realized how little I was taking home I looked for another job.
I have worked so many jobs for so many different employers my resume has been reduced to just four words; they are "Been There, Done That.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Do you think if auto techs required a license from the state like a plumber or electrician that the pay would be higher or that you could command a higher pay rate if you needed that license to do the work?

Eh, maybe. Its slowly getting to the point the cars just aren't being fixed. The idea of a tech paying for 50k plus in tools, thousands in scan tools and updates, to make 45k a year working 50 hours and weekends just ain't gonna cut it.

Businesses will just rebrand and claim they're doing "maintanaince work" not repairs, and ignore the requirements. It's like OSHA, just nonsense scare tactics until they start going door to door and shutting down businesses. I'm all for certification, make it required for luber-goober to have ASE master and L1 and maybe the industry will start improving. I would no longer reccomend people this trade, although I make good money. It's not worth having to fight to be paid every day.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Adding on, the auto field did this to themselves.

We undersold our talents and skills. We raced to the bottom to compete on cost, not value. Unless you're a top guy, with a good front desk, it's a battle to make money. You always have to have your gaurd up to make sure the front desk isnt ripping you off or shorting you. We made our industry into a McDonalds job, would you like brake pads with that? Chains, indy, dealers, the story is similar. The more you can do, the less you get paid. The guy dumping ball joints and doing ignition misfires is making a killing, complicated work pays ****.


You basically need to be at the top of the food chain, or you ain't making squat. And let me tell you, there ain't a lot of room at the top, most people are in the bottom 90%. And even if you can do the driveability work, you're still expected to do LOFs for $4 pre tax.

 

[Meursault74]

I'm a DIY guy. I've done household repairs and modifications in plumbing, carpentry, and electrical. I've fixed appliances and bicyles as well. I do some minor repairs on cars if I can. From the repairs I've done and learned how to do. I consider automotive work the most difficult considering the space constraints and specialized tools. It doesn't seem right to me to compensated at the lower end in comparison to the higher difficulty of the work.
I've helped my brother out with several repairs on his home. He had a problem with an electrical outlet. He said he called an electrician and was told it would be $175 to come out and repair (not disputing the charge amount) I went over with my multi-meter and a screwdriver and checked for him. The GFCI outlet was bad. I told my brother what to buy and then I swapped it out on another day when he bought the outlet. Maybe 10 minutes of actual work.
He has a BMW and told me the car had to be reprogrammed after the battery was changed, I was like WTF? So I could physically change out the battery, but the car wouldn't run correctly without some specialized scan tool. Why so complicated?

 

[American Locomotive]

Eh, maybe. Its slowly getting to the point the cars just aren't being fixed. The idea of a tech paying for 50k plus in tools, thousands in scan tools and updates, to make 45k a year working 50 hours and weekends just ain't gonna cut it.

I always thought the biggest scam ever in the automotive repair world was making mechanics pay for their own tools. When I was an industrial mechanic working on $3,000,000 CNC machines, the company paid for all of the tools, and the toolbox they were in. If I needed any tool at all - they'd order it no questions asked, and it'd be there next day.

Always absolutely blew my mind that auto technicians are generally expected to pay for their own tools, even though their toolbox for the most part lives in one location. Crazy to me.

 

[Meursault74]

I always thought the biggest scam ever in the automotive repair world was making mechanics pay for their own tools. When I was an industrial mechanic working on $3,000,000 CNC machines, the company paid for all of the tools, and the toolbox they were in. If I needed any tool at all - they'd order it no questions asked, and it'd be there next day.

Always absolutely blew my mind that auto technicians are generally expected to pay for their own tools, even though their toolbox for the most part lives in one location. Crazy to me.

Did the workers take care of the company tools and put them back in their places? Did several workers have access to the tools?

I use tools sometimes in my work. We have a few long 1 1/8" wrenches. Use them for compressed gas cylinders. I even put a label on them and that said return to tank farm. I can't tell you how much time I've wasted looking for those wrenches when people don't put them back. I even brought my own hex key sets and keep it in my desk. They are mine and I don't let anyone else use them. My employer pays for all tools, but I wanted to keep my own hex keys, as I simply wasted too much time looking for the common ones that get scattered around with missing sizes. I imagine an auto tech working on flat rate isn't going to want to share tools and waste time looking for them. I get paid on salary, so I'd rather not waste time either, although my time wrenching on equipment is a small fraction of my work time.

 

[American Locomotive]

The tools weren't shared. All the mechanics had their own box they could lock.

 

[Yarpo]

It's not worth having to fight to be paid every day.

Nailed it. Far too many variables that go into me making money and its a nightmare.

He has a BMW and told me the car had to be reprogrammed after the battery was changed, I was like WTF? So I could physically change out the battery, but the car wouldn't run correctly without some specialized scan tool. Why so complicated?

Not sure what year BMW, but Mercedes is the same, and you don't "have" to do it. I'm guessing they just reset the battery throughput, or at least thats what we call it. Internal resistance builds up due to x y z and as such the charging system needs to do more or less to charge the battery. The system will adapt the charging characteristics of the battery in part based on this reset. If not reset the system does not know the battery was replaced and may apply different charging characteristics to the new battery. A non issue really...but it can cause some issues with the eco start stop functions if optioned with it. Just a feature of adding more technology to vehicles.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I always thought the biggest scam ever in the automotive repair world was making mechanics pay for their own tools. When I was an industrial mechanic working on $3,000,000 CNC machines, the company paid for all of the tools, and the toolbox they were in. If I needed any tool at all - they'd order it no questions asked, and it'd be there next day.

Always absolutely blew my mind that auto technicians are generally expected to pay for their own tools, even though their toolbox for the most part lives in one location. Crazy to me.

It's not exactly apples to apples though. The tools required to fix the machine are a known-known. Auto repair tool costs have little to do with hand tools - although things like 9point sockets for porsche brakes or flower-pattern wheel sockets for MB do add up. It's all the extras that kill you. Wheel bearings as example, pretty straight forward item right?

Well, for old school tapered roller bearings you need a basic seal puller and the ubiquitous set of race drivers, and some punches. Oh, and a slide hammer and bearing pullers for axle bearings. Only 3 main sizes, not a ton of specialty stuff. Not super common anymore though - so lets go to press-in bearings. The shop should have a 20ton press with some sketchy arbor plates, maybe some old 3/4 sockets a mechanic long ago left there and some brake lathe adapters to press with. Having bearing splitters is unlikely. So, you need to buy a full set of splitters, 4-5 sizes, at least one set of press adapters, inner-race tools to deal with the spindle, pullers for the spindle, various snap ring pliers, including ear-less snap ring pliers for toyotas. Ideally you can supplement this an on-car wheel bearing puller, spindle puller, and your ball joint adapter set. All of this ignores bolt in hubs, which ask for 0.498 hammers, 10lb sledges, etc. Even buying the cheapest junk you can find, we're really talking $500+ just to be tooled properly to change press-in wheel bearings. And a bearing job pays..... 1.5? So even if you make $30/hour, to press a bearing you're making $45 pre tax. That's 11 wheel bearings just to pay for your tooling. Assuming none of the cheapo stuff we bought to make the $500 budget work fails. I have a nice set of splitters, $400 USA made. Nice stuff.


The shops are just ignorant IMO. Not being mean, they just don't understand that it's not 1970 and the Autozone loaner tool program and a craftsman single stack full of hand tools isn't fixing ****.

No fuel pressure? I hook a current probe into the fuse box, use rulers to calculate rpm, and confirm the pump is spinning at 5,000rpm. You got a leak after the pump, before the line, or the pump is sucking air. How about those eco-boost 4cyl timing tools? Best not be taking off the crank pulley, the timing sprocket for the crank isn't keyed, it can free-spin if you loosen the bolt. I got a 10yo E-class Benz with broken rear coil springs, got the compressor? As another member mentioned with battery resets, you need scan tools to properly repair vehicles, not some global OBDII reader. Shops ain't buying that. I've got 5k in scan tools sitting in my box. Plus side, I then hold the monopoly on such repairs and diagnostic work. I can also walk out tomorrow and be up and running in a new shop with no loss in ability or proficiency.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Nailed it. Far too many variables that go into me making money and its a nightmare.

Not sure what year BMW, but Mercedes is the same, and you don't "have" to do it. I'm guessing they just reset the battery throughput, or at least thats what we call it. Internal resistance builds up due to x y z and as such the charging system needs to do more or less to charge the battery. The system will adapt the charging characteristics of the battery in part based on this reset. If not reset the system does not know the battery was replaced and may apply different charging characteristics to the new battery. A non issue really...but it can cause some issues with the eco start stop functions if optioned with it. Just a feature of adding more technology to vehicles.

Ford too. It changes the charging strategy to properly maintain the battery, with minimal alternator usage. You have to enter CCA, AGM/LA, group number, etc. It's a good idea to always do it IMO. It takes longer to get to the menu in the scan tool than actually reset it.


Variables...... yeah. You can make a killing doing this. Or sit around and dump oil. The show "Ice Road Truckers" said it best - It's the dash for the cash. Only so many repairs, broken cars, etc in one day. Get cooking and knock them out. Plan your schedule, how you'll bring the cars in, what order, what's on the schedule, etc. The big killer is making sure there's enough actual work. Not stupid ******** like inspections and waiter LOFs. Actual work. Broken vehicles and diagnostic work. Grinding brakes, water pumps, misfires, stuff involving pulling front clips, etc. I would love to know how much I could actually output with unlimited broken cars. Not scrounging for loose tie-rods on $25 LOF/rotates, but a parking lot full of drivability and radiators.

 

[American Locomotive]

I think you're over simplifying what I did in my position.

We had a dozen different brands of machines, all very different models, all of them with a variety of special service tools. You aren't successfully replacing a counter spindle on a multi-spindle CNC lathe with an Craftsman 70 piece tool kit. Lots of specialty tools and measuring equipment needed. Didn't matter - the company would buy whatever tools were needed. So between myself and the other techs, we would have quite a few duplicate tools - even duplicate special service tools.

The super, super spendy specialty tools - like ultra-precision alignment jigs made out of low-temperature-coefficient steel were shared, but they were locked up in the tool crib, and you had to sign them out. If it was a tool that multiple people might need at the same time - they would buy multiple copies. Whatever tool was needed - they would buy, and next-day it UPS Red. and like I said, for the most part - our tools were ours. Locked in our own box. Granted if you quit/got fired the tools stayed with the company - but not a big deal.

You mentioned you being able to have a monopoly on certain types of work because of your tools? That's great for you, but is that great overall for the business if you're relying on a single person to do all of your diagnostics? Sounds like a bottleneck situation to me.

It's probably not reasonable to ask an independent shop to supply all necessary tools, but IMO, a dealership that only primarily services a couple of different brands should provide all special service tools and most of the tools necessary in general to work on their vehicles.

Provide all the tools, pay your techs hourly (or salary), and you'll fix a lot of issues with the auto repair industry, IMO.

 

[Yarpo]

Ford too. It changes the charging strategy to properly maintain the battery, with minimal alternator usage. You have to enter CCA, AGM/LA, group number, etc. It's a good idea to always do it IMO. It takes longer to get to the menu in the scan tool than actually reset it.


Variables...... yeah. You can make a killing doing this. Or sit around and dump oil. The show "Ice Road Truckers" said it best - It's the dash for the cash. Only so many repairs, broken cars, etc in one day. Get cooking and knock them out. Plan your schedule, how you'll bring the cars in, what order, what's on the schedule, etc. The big killer is making sure there's enough actual work. Not stupid ******** like inspections and waiter LOFs. Actual work. Broken vehicles and diagnostic work. Grinding brakes, water pumps, misfires, stuff involving pulling front clips, etc. I would love to know how much I could actually output with unlimited broken cars. Not scrounging for loose tie-rods on $25 LOF/rotates, but a parking lot full of drivability and radiators.

Yeah same with ours, connecting the tool and going through the menu takes longer than resetting it. It definitely should be done, I wouldn't advocate someone not do it, but Ive seen techs forget and the car shows up months later with no apparent issues so I was just saying its possible that a home owner could replace the battery if they so insisted. It may shorten the lifespan or the lifespan of another charging component I'd imagine. Or perhaps your eco start stop will finally function properly (and not work )

That's the problem. If you know you could turn 70 or 80 or 90 hours of repairs if the work was there, its kind of a slap in the face to struggle for 50 hours because of the variables. Customers being willing to spend their money (For awhile we had customers declining free inspections which was amazing...now they mandated inspections even if we know the customer wont buy anything. Waste of time) advisors selling the work, payroll paying it properly, not waiting on parts to show up at your tool box or the store, our parts department likes to repackage parts, that's led to some fun conversations...warranty not shafting you. So much going on lol. I'm considering going back to school as I want a degree in finance, but I hate school and truly love being in the shop haha.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Right, but you're working on a 3 million dollar machine. I'm working on convincing some idiot that having coolant squirting out of the water-housing on the back of the head is, in fact, something worth addressing. Your business understands downtime costs money, and they understand equipment needs maintaining and repairs. "People" don't think like that.


Most smaller indy shops and most chain shops can't support more than 1 diagnostic guy, or even B level tech. There simply isn't enough work. Diagnostics is a bit of a misnomer, I mean electrical and drivability. No, you're not getting a penny of pay or diagnostic time for brakes, suspension noises, etc. So you test drive, remove all wheels, remove all calipers, compress all calipers, confirm all the slides work, hammer out the pads with a chisel, dial the rotors if required - FOR FREE ZERO PAY. And IF the front desk can do their job properly, you get paid 1 hour of labor to "change the pads" which around here means grinding out 1/16 of rust over all of the pad contact areas with cut-off wheels or carbide burrs. Oh, and $0.00 to remove the rotors, and clean the hubs as best you can depending on how pitted they are. Then test drive again - for that glorious hour the customer things you're jewing them on because you only "worked on the brakes for 20min" after they approved it. I fight and battle every summer on AC work, how a "recharge" doesn't include actually diagnosing the system, it just makes the system capable of functioning. Yes, your AC system can work 100%, but if the blend door is stuck to hot on the drivers side - cough- HONDA -cough- But that should be free. Because they paid for a "recharge" which fixes everything.


IMO the industry will move a model like you're describing only if electrification happens. For the time being, the powers that be are standing around with their heads up their *** wondering why not charging for performing work isn't making them any money....... I know, how about a LOF promotion!

 

[Professional Tool User]

The saying goes that tool boxes have wheels. Having to pay for my own tools is a considerable outlay. However, when you change jobs, your tools move with you. You can't do this with shop tools. This is an advantage in trades with low startup costs in terms of tools like plumbers and electricians. Even mechanics can benefit with this principle to some extent with side work. A machinist requiring tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars of machine tools if he wants to use the tools outside of work to make money will be hard pressed to come up with the startup capital.

 

[transfocus]

Do you think if auto techs required a license from the state like a plumber or electrician that the pay would be higher or that you could command a higher pay rate if you needed that license to do the work?

In Michigan there is licensing that's needed to work professionally, might be a few other States as well. The tests are shorter, easier, and kinda dated compared to ASE's, the drivability test had a few carburetor questions. If you have ASE's, you can send them to the State and bypass the tests. Michigan sits around the middle when compared to other States on average pay.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

^ dated, compared to ASE tests? What a joke. Shows how worthless such programs are. We hired a kid from the local high school vo-tech program. Idiots have him studing rebuilding techniques for iron block pushrod motors that haven't been made in 30+ years. No, we ain't measuring for bore taper, it's getting a used motor from a junkyard or scraped. Kid had never even heard of an electronic parking brake, but we're studying points ignition and using a dial indicator to set in mechanical lifters.....

Don't even get me started on these idiot trade schools not teaching them how to rack cars. I could strangle those instructors.

 

[Professional Tool User]

^ dated, compared to ASE tests? What a joke. Shows how worthless such programs are. We hired a kid from the local high school vo-tech program. Idiots have him studing rebuilding techniques for iron block pushrod motors that haven't been made in 30+ years. No, we ain't measuring for bore taper, it's getting a used motor from a junkyard or scraped. Kid had never even heard of an electronic parking brake, but we're studying points ignition and using a dial indicator to set in mechanical lifters.....

Don't even get me started on these idiot trade schools not teaching them how to rack cars. I could strangle those instructors.

Trades school training is only useless if it isn't combined with practical experience. Tests and school are not a substitute for an apprenticeship. Here in Canada every red seal certification trade combines rigorous testing on your diagnostic abilities with a minimum amount of practical experience. In Europe, the bar for training is set even higher. Back when my dad moved the family to China for work, one of my childhood friend's dad was the general manager at a indirect competitor - a German owned wool spinning plant. He was one of those German factory apprentices promoted from the ground up. His duties included fixing the machinery if anything broke down. This is in stark contrast to many companies in the US and Canada run by bean counters who have maintenance needs. There is a disturbing tendency to use worn out equipment and/or not have at least one qualified in house technician on duty or at least on call to quickly deal with any equipment break downs. The Toyota factory in Japan that is responsible for producing Lexus vehicles and has a helicopter and helicopter pad for shuttling personnel back and forth between the plant and head office in order to resolve any production issues as quickly as possible.

 

[Professional Tool User]

Right, but you're working on a 3 million dollar machine. I'm working on convincing some idiot that having coolant squirting out of the water-housing on the back of the head is, in fact, something worth addressing. Your business understands downtime costs money, and they understand equipment needs maintaining and repairs. "People" don't think like that.

If you are having trouble selling necessary work to customers, you are building up your customer base with the wrong type of customer. Once you have a big enough customer base, you tell those customers who don't show pride of ownership when it comes to maintenance and those who disrespect you to get lost.

Good customers will value time over money. You should have no problem selling red light maintenance items. Upselling yellow and green light jobs to well to do customers should also not be an issue provided you have developed a customer relationship with trust and honesty as its foundation.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

If you are having trouble selling necessary work to customers, you are building up your customer base with the wrong type of customer. Once you have a big enough customer base, you tell those customers who don't show pride of ownership when it comes to maintenance and those who disrespect you to get lost.

Good customers will value time over money. You should have no problem selling red light maintenance items. Upselling yellow and green light jobs to well to do customers should also not be an issue provided you have developed a customer relationship with trust and honesty as its foundation.

The majority of the public is the wrong type of customer.

You have a theoretical $100 to spend. Do you - replace 15yo acidic coolant slowly eating the cooling system alive? Or, buy $100 sunglasses to show how cool, hip, and affluent you are? Nothing like fresh tire shine on bald tires. Maybe in the great white north, the average IQ is actually 100. Around here, I figure we're down about 1 standard deviation. As a percentage, what would be the number of people who consider an automobile anything above a commodity? 5%? And what percentage of those have vehicle buying habits that make maintaining them relevant? The people who actually keep cars for 15 years and don't just swap them every 3-5. If you're buying new or nearly new, all you need to do is a couple oil changes, a set of tires, and a pad slap. Why maintain anything else when you won't see the benefit?

Shop owners want to flood the shop with raw car count, in attempt to fix the issue. As a result, less time can be spent inspecting the vehicles and educating customers, both of which means less work is sold. So we then double down and keep stacking the schedule with garbage appointments right on top of each other and turn the pressure up to the max to pump them through the shop. No one fixes oil leaks until the fumes from it smoldering on the manifold get to them. Why would they? In what way would their life improve? Now, a $200 pair of basketball shoes? Worn by someone who doesn't play basketball? THAT my friend is a life improving purchase. They buy the apple watch before they pay their rent, and take 100% of the vehicle expenditure budget and put it into the payment. Boomers to zoomers, they're all about the same in that regard. On the other side, you have people who want to band-aid **** together and think everything is too expensive. People are astounded on here when I say I can't remember the last time I did "maintaince" spark plugs. Just wait until the 150k plugs finally encourage the spark to carbon track to ground, and sell them then. There's nothing "wrong" with the plugs before that, right? I'm part of a few industry groups, and it's a similar story all over. And thinking we're gonna change doing LOFs, tire installs, and alignments for the same prices and wages as 2000 isn't in the cards. Most shop owners don't want to either. Just pay goober $12/hour with no benefits or overtime to swap outer tie rods, tires, and brake pads. Really, do you want to pay an "A" tech to mount the tires on your minivan? Or do your LOF? ASOG had a discussion on this recently - how many "A" techs does the industry really need? How many shops even want that kind of work, can source parts for it, and bill for it properly?


I want to save these people, I really do. But they gotta want the help. Can't take the bottle out a drunks hand, and you can't get people to check the oil after they've blown up the last two cars they bought by running them dry on 30k oil change intervals.

 

[Professional Tool User]

The majority of the public is the wrong type of customer.

You have a theoretical $100 to spend. Do you - replace 15yo acidic coolant slowly eating the cooling system alive? Or, buy $100 sunglasses to show how cool, hip, and affluent you are? Nothing like fresh tire shine on bald tires. Maybe in the great white north, the average IQ is actually 100.

Not everyone behaves like a rapper who just signed his first contract. There are rich people who won't blink an eye before approving a repair list at a dealer. Even well to do people of more modest means will understand the importance of relatively inexpensive preventative maintenance. A car is almost as indispensable as electricity or plumbing unless you want to ride public transit. Calling up the tow truck is inconvenient at best and expensive at worst. Cars are no longer as cheap and disposable as they used to be with the average vehicle mileage and years of service count rising. People are expecting vehicles to last longer.

The only way you can really add value as an auto repair business is to upsell and build your reputation. Having the best people matters when there's advanced problem to troubleshoot and also helps improve the productivity of less experienced technicians through leadership and training. Paying decent wages should not be a problem provided the shop provides a premium level of service to good customers who are willing to pay. There are specialty shops that have the ability to charge premium rates for their specialist knowledge. This reminds me of the time I chatted with the owner of a transmission shop about rebuilding the 6 speed ZF transmission in my vehicle because it went into limp mode after a I took a chance with changing the transmission fluid well beyond the change interval (recently purchased used vehicle). He described how he found a used transmission for another customer with the same vehicle model and drivetrain and quoted me $2000 after telling me that reprogramming won't work. But in the end he said that there's no safety issues if I continued to drive the vehicle. This is the kind of guy I'd entrust with and pay to work on my vehicle if I didn't want to rebuild the transmission myself. Every respectable shop should work towards being like this one.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I have more than a few reasons people ask for the tall skinny guy with black glasses. Local shops dont even quote lugnut extraction or rotten manifolds anymore.

To each their own, I try to convince those who want to listen to keep their cars from being driven straight into the ground. As you said, sell on value, not price. But you must admit, a large number of the population are price only consumers.

 

[Dumber than lumber]

This is a fascinating thread. Even more so considering the opening post that kicked it off.
So much of what mechanics do can’t be done by a robot.
I took me years to get to the point where I could afford to turn down work. No, I am not in the trades.
Working in a dealership, or a chain has got to be difficult. Not an old man’s game IMO.

 

[MarineScott]

Most places don't want cars diagnosed properly. They want the car in and out. Most people selling the work have never turned a wrench. I could go on and on, as others on here have. Cars are more complicated today, and many coming out of trade schools don't know the fundamentals, or have any mechanical ability. They are told in school, that they can make 100k a year. It is possible if you are fed, or you do unnecessary services, and cheating customers. Many mech/techs, are given a bad name for the idiots out there. There are those very knowledgeable techs who CAN make 100k, those aren't the idiots I am talking about.

 

[xlowxyotax88x]

Man I hate to be in y'all's shoes, I've been Indy my whole 17 year career. I started in body did that 10 plus years with some mechanical work in that time and been mechanical for the last 7. I can do everything and I am compensated for it. I have no ase certs, no diplomas of any sort, simply the desire to work on cars at a young age and was able to comprehend them and understand the logic. If your job ***** that much use the wheels on your box, I just did after moving to another shop for 8 months, if you are truly a good tech you will be compensated for it. There's plenty of work out there I have a lot full and booked out over 2 weeks if your shop has no work there may be a reason. And to the OP I do the same to all my wrenches, ratchets, and need to do my sockets, it's easy to say hey that's mine as well as no not that wrench it's sae. I do lime green for metric and ratchets and orange for sae. I use a paint pen let it dry and clean it off with 000 steel wool.

Edit to add I'm hourly now, but I can still run flat rate any day and live very comfortably

 

[2ndGearRubber]

This is a fascinating thread. Even more so considering the opening post that kicked it off.
So much of what mechanics do can’t be done by a robot.
I took me years to get to the point where I could afford to turn down work. No, I am not in the trades.
Working in a dealership, or a chain has got to be difficult. Not an old man’s game IMO.

IMO if he is flat-rate, he should have every reason and right to do whatever he wants with his time. Lots of the local places here think flat rate guys still need to be taking out trash and scrubbing floors for $0/hour while they wait for their next 0.2 LOF/Rotate WAITER.

Most places don't want cars diagnosed properly. They want the car in and out. Most people selling the work have never turned a wrench. I could go on and on, as others on here have. Cars are more complicated today, and many coming out of trade schools don't know the fundamentals, or have any mechanical ability. They are told in school, that they can make 100k a year. It is possible if you are fed, or you do unnecessary services, and cheating customers. Many mech/techs, are given a bad name for the idiots out there. There are those very knowledgeable techs who CAN make 100k, those aren't the idiots I am talking about.

Problem is, they start on the lube-rack at $25k a year.

I have yet to meet a trade school or vo-tech kid who can rack a car after leaving school. Shut those places down, they have zero use to the industry if the kid can't even do a LOF after spending 18months and thousands of dollars. Local Rosedale-tech instructor told me they don't want to chance the kids racking cars and dropping one. They don't have them pull wheels either "otherwise the studs would wear out". I'm not sure what these schools near me are teaching, but those who leave with or without graduating don't seem to know a whole lot. They'd be knowledge and money ahead to start at a chain tire store and read "How Stuff Works" on their free time for 6 months.

Kid leaves school - can't rack the car. Then he can't rotate the tires because he's removed 25 lug nuts in his life and can't handle lugging the wheels around and getting them on the studs. Can't find the drain plug, now we play "find the engine block" and I work them to the pan from there..... it really isn't worth the hassle to deal with this for months. Our new guy is paranoid about racking cars. He is also fat, and doesn't want to get all the way down on the ground to actually rack them. Our policy now is we refuse to check a rack for proper set points until it is 100% in the air. If he believes he cannot rack it, I will rack it, confirm it is possible, then remove all of the adapters and the pegs, randomly move the arm length, and tell him where to pick it up. This policy seems to have kicked his *** in the right direction.


Management and the front desk decide at least 50% of your paycheck. I made over 75% of my total paycheck Monday on 3 cars. And why do I need to show up for the other ******** they fill the schedule with? My hope is the industry is slowly forced into the independant contractor model and I'll just set my own hours. So long as good techs and even okay ones keep a shred of dignity and stop undercutting each other it could end up that way. I could easily make 75% of my yearly income working 1/3 of the total hours I currently work. The rest is just no-money garbage filling up the day.