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Insulating metal building
- Thread starter Dubbydoo
- Start date
readhead
Well-known member
What type of metal building? Was there a thermal break tape installed between the cover and the frame? Will there be an inside wall covering? Will you be heating or cooling or both? Where are you located? It would be helpful if that was in your profile. This info will have a bearing on what path you take for insulation.
Sorry in in VA gets hot and humid here in the summer and pretty cold in winter. I will be cooling and heating. there is nothing on the walls just metal on metal frame. If i use the roll insulation I was gonna skin the inside walls with exterior metal panels like the same same that used on the outside
Gunfixr
Well-known member
I'm in VA, and I have a metal building also. Humidity gets in mine pretty bad. Using roll up insulation isn't going to keep that out. The brother of a friend who has one sprayed in insulation, sealed it right up.
readhead
Well-known member
I’m guessing it is a tube steel building and it is metal on a metal frame. Since there is no thermal break condensation is still in the cards. Was a vapor barrier installed under the slab?
my suggestion would be to use 2” rigid foam flush to the inside of the frame So there is a small gap between the foam sheets and the siding. Use a 3/8” thick foam tape on the face of the frame before you install the interior sheeting.
As a side note to others reading this it is always less expensive and easier to insulate during construction than afterwards. If the budget doesn’t allow during construction you should at least install a thermal break between the siding and the frame to reduce condensation.
my suggestion would be to use 2” rigid foam flush to the inside of the frame So there is a small gap between the foam sheets and the siding. Use a 3/8” thick foam tape on the face of the frame before you install the interior sheeting.
As a side note to others reading this it is always less expensive and easier to insulate during construction than afterwards. If the budget doesn’t allow during construction you should at least install a thermal break between the siding and the frame to reduce condensation.
My Old Tools
Well-known member
Its humid as hell here. My building is red iron, 30x40s12 with 6/12 roof. 22 feer tall. Its insulated with plastic faced fiberglass roll, but was installed before the sheets. I added another 8 inch layer on the roof only. It stays nice and cool in summer and warm in winter with a 3 ton MrCool. Probably could have done a 2 ton.
That Guy Scott
Well-known member
What if it’s a red iron style with no thermal break? What is your thoughts there? I failed to do what you recommended above and Im now contemplating doing some insulation. I know you’re not a fan of spray insulation.I’m guessing it is a tube steel building and it is metal on a metal frame. Since there is no thermal break condensation is still in the cards. Was a vapor barrier installed under the slab?
my suggestion would be to use 2” rigid foam flush to the inside of the frame So there is a small gap between the foam sheets and the siding. Use a 3/8” thick foam tape on the face of the frame before you install the interior sheeting.
As a side note to others reading this it is always less expensive and easier to insulate during construction than afterwards. If the budget doesn’t allow during construction you should at least install a thermal break between the siding and the frame to reduce condensation.
misterfixit
Well-known member
Maybe not what you want to hear, but my own metal frame metal siding 30x40x12 was sprayed with closed cell foam. seals great and while not the cheapest method it is probably the fastest and easiest after construction is completed.
You can insulate it with about anything, but make sure you get the sill and any seams sealed up.
I was on a construction job a few years back. We did hydronic floor heat in a steel building that was an unheated storage barn. Another contractor insulated and finished the walls. They could barely heat the place. One windy day I went back to figure out the problem. I walked into the building and I could feel the air moving. I grabbed a piece of toilet paper and walked around the walls. Any opening, electrical outlet, any seam in the wall board and it would blow the toilet paper away.
They got the contractor back and showed him the issue. They stripped all the wall board off and spray foamed the walls and ceiling and refinished the interior. Basically did the whole job over. It heated fine after that.
I was on a construction job a few years back. We did hydronic floor heat in a steel building that was an unheated storage barn. Another contractor insulated and finished the walls. They could barely heat the place. One windy day I went back to figure out the problem. I walked into the building and I could feel the air moving. I grabbed a piece of toilet paper and walked around the walls. Any opening, electrical outlet, any seam in the wall board and it would blow the toilet paper away.
They got the contractor back and showed him the issue. They stripped all the wall board off and spray foamed the walls and ceiling and refinished the interior. Basically did the whole job over. It heated fine after that.
readhead
Well-known member
Scott, there are retro fit systems that use fiberglass blanket insulation. Try Silvercote.
I need to make my position clear again on spray foam. I think it is a great product that does exactly what it promises. I would use it in my house if I had the opportunity. Over time it has become a problem in metal building applications. I’ve seen rust through in five years but most commonly in ten to fifteen years. When you finally notice it it is way too late. All the foam has to be removed then sheets and in some cases purlins and girts if they are rusted through.
Check with your building supplier to find out if the warranty is void if spray foam is applied. Some metal suppliers will void their warranties and I write it into all my contacts now.
Now I know that there will be lots of replies about how someone had their building spray foamed and they love it. I get it and I bet it transformed their building into a perfect place to work all year around. Foam damage seems to be some what selective. They may never have a problem but why take a chance. Fiberglass can be installed for quite a bit less money and provide nearly the same results.
I need to make my position clear again on spray foam. I think it is a great product that does exactly what it promises. I would use it in my house if I had the opportunity. Over time it has become a problem in metal building applications. I’ve seen rust through in five years but most commonly in ten to fifteen years. When you finally notice it it is way too late. All the foam has to be removed then sheets and in some cases purlins and girts if they are rusted through.
Check with your building supplier to find out if the warranty is void if spray foam is applied. Some metal suppliers will void their warranties and I write it into all my contacts now.
Now I know that there will be lots of replies about how someone had their building spray foamed and they love it. I get it and I bet it transformed their building into a perfect place to work all year around. Foam damage seems to be some what selective. They may never have a problem but why take a chance. Fiberglass can be installed for quite a bit less money and provide nearly the same results.
kj_mustang
Well-known member
There are too many other factors involved; ie: types of spray foam used, thickness of foam applied to achieve water vapor barrier for the geographic location of the structure, hvac conditioned vs nonconditioned interior space, to make a blanket statement that spray foam will cause metal corrosion.
readhead
Well-known member
How about if I say it happens a lot in buildings with spray foam and I have never seen the problem with other kinds of insulation. I’ve been selling, erecting and repairing metal buildings for twenty years.
kj_mustang
Well-known member
People who don't know enough about the insulation they are using and the environmental factors of the structure have been causing issues for many decades, such as finished basement walls with mold and rot.
Gunfixr
Well-known member
So then, how would I seal up my metal tube framed building to keep the humidity out, so I can use regular insulation?
readhead
Well-known member
That is a long conversation since most tube steel buildings are not erected with sealing in mind. I will hit the major points.
Is there a vapor barrier under the slab? If not you may be getting some moisture migrating through the slab. A way to find out how much moisture is to tape a one foot square piece of plastic on the slab and see what accumulates on the bottom of the plastic after 24-48 hours.
Since there is no location in your profile I don't know if you are in a heating or cooling area. We will assume cooling since you asked about humidity. You will not get rid of it but you can manage it. The obvious answer is air conditioning but lets look at insulation and ventilation.
Insulating with rigid foam or fiberglass will be the most cost effective. Ventilation in the form of an exhaust fan and intake louver in opposite ends of the building mounted as high as you can should move the hot moist air out of the building. In some cases you will want to leave the intake closed and just operate the exhaust fan to remove the warm air.
Insulation works to keep the warm in as well as out so it may take a while to work out the best management. If you are not worried about staying cool just open the doors and let the dew point even out and you will not have any condensation. It my take a while but you will figure it out.
Is there a vapor barrier under the slab? If not you may be getting some moisture migrating through the slab. A way to find out how much moisture is to tape a one foot square piece of plastic on the slab and see what accumulates on the bottom of the plastic after 24-48 hours.
Since there is no location in your profile I don't know if you are in a heating or cooling area. We will assume cooling since you asked about humidity. You will not get rid of it but you can manage it. The obvious answer is air conditioning but lets look at insulation and ventilation.
Insulating with rigid foam or fiberglass will be the most cost effective. Ventilation in the form of an exhaust fan and intake louver in opposite ends of the building mounted as high as you can should move the hot moist air out of the building. In some cases you will want to leave the intake closed and just operate the exhaust fan to remove the warm air.
Insulation works to keep the warm in as well as out so it may take a while to work out the best management. If you are not worried about staying cool just open the doors and let the dew point even out and you will not have any condensation. It my take a while but you will figure it out.
Slowbuilder
Well-known member
Another vote for SilverCote. I believe they provide post-construction kits as well, and they also supply rockwool insulation, which I believe is slightly better R-value than fiberglass, and is easier to work with (less irritation to the skin)
Gunfixr
Well-known member
I thought I had put my location in my profile, I will check that.That is a long conversation since most tube steel buildings are not erected with sealing in mind. I will hit the major points.
Is there a vapor barrier under the slab? If not you may be getting some moisture migrating through the slab. A way to find out how much moisture is to tape a one foot square piece of plastic on the slab and see what accumulates on the bottom of the plastic after 24-48 hours.
Since there is no location in your profile I don't know if you are in a heating or cooling area. We will assume cooling since you asked about humidity. You will not get rid of it but you can manage it. The obvious answer is air conditioning but lets look at insulation and ventilation.
Insulating with rigid foam or fiberglass will be the most cost effective. Ventilation in the form of an exhaust fan and intake louver in opposite ends of the building mounted as high as you can should move the hot moist air out of the building. In some cases you will want to leave the intake closed and just operate the exhaust fan to remove the warm air.
Insulation works to keep the warm in as well as out so it may take a while to work out the best management. If you are not worried about staying cool just open the doors and let the dew point even out and you will not have any condensation. It my take a while but you will figure it out.
However, i'm in virginia, just a bit east and South of richmond.
I highly doubt anything was put under the slab, I was not present when it was poured. I did seal the top. Moisture collects on most things, particularly metal ones. My lathe and mill look like hell now, tools rusted, plastic handles have that white mold on them.
I was planning a wood stove in the back, centered, and an exhaust fan up front at the peak. It has that bubble wrap type insulation in the roof, done when the building was put up.
kj_mustang
Well-known member
In your location with the high humidity levels in the summer and lack of a vapor barrier under the slab, I seriously doubt you will ever seal it up enough to keep interior moisture levels down without using some type of dehumidifying device.
Gunfixr
Well-known member
Well, that just *****.......
kj_mustang
Well-known member
2" closed cell spray foam will give you a water vapor barrier on the structure. But every time the door is opened, in comes the humidity and you will get some moisture up through the slab. Insulate and install a/c. Types of both of those depends on the money you want to spend.
How's it holding up? How many years old? Any negative signs of corrosion anywhere???Maybe not what you want to hear, but my own metal frame metal siding 30x40x12 was sprayed with closed cell foam. seals great and while not the cheapest method it is probably the fastest and easiest after construction is completed.
Purchased a home with a 22'x25'x10' metal building (uses 2.5" square tubing), the spacing varies from 60"OC to less than that. So as a result, I'm not entirely sure how to go about finishing off the inside. My latest idea is maybe using 1x4's as girts inside so I have something to nail or screw paneling to?
Anyone with experience with these types of buildings, feel free to chime in with any advice!
Will they support the weight of running the 1x4's and paneling up to 8'????
I'm also interested in adding side sheds, was thinking 2x6 header screwed up top along the side then running 2x6x10 or 12 possibly every 24"OC. But again, unsure if those 2.5" square tubing can handle the added weight and not sure who I can contact to find out?!?!?
Any help would be great! TIA!
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texasfiremedic
Well-known member
Is this for a shop or a metal building that you are making into house. If it is for a shop you can see what I did on mine. Click on my avatar and click on the 1 ton fab table. Mine is a year old at this time.How's it holding up? How many years old? Any negative signs of corrosion anywhere???
Purchased a home with a 22'x25'x10' metal building (uses 2.5" square tubing), the spacing varies from 60"OC to less than that. So as a result, I'm not entirely sure how to go about finishing off the inside. My latest idea is maybe using 1x4's as girts inside so I have something to nail or screw paneling to?
Anyone with experience with these types of buildings, feel free to chime in with any advice!
Will they support the weight of running the 1x4's and paneling up to 8'????
I'm also interested in adding side sheds, was thinking 2x6 header screwed up top along the side then running 2x6x10 or 12 possibly every 24"OC. But again, unsure if those 2.5" square tubing can handle the added weight and not sure who I can contact to find out?!?!?
Any help would be great! TIA!