JOE.G
Well-known member
Hi, I have a thread restorer kit but I am looking for a decent well rounded kit. Any ideas? Thanks
Looking for a nice under $200 Tap and Die set.
- Thread starter JOE.G
- Start date
chard98
Well-known member
I would say General Tool, Magna, maybe even Craftsman make a decent set. Can't recall pricing. I have all 3 types, some in SAE, some in metric.
akalian
Well-known member
I'm not sure if the attached Sears Tap & Die Set is what you mean by a "Thread Restorer Kit", or is it something like this: https://www.searshometownstores.com/product/Craftsman-971-2750-48-pc-SAE-Metric-Thread-Restorer-Kit or this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P6UNHE/?tag=atomicindus08-20
If so then go get yourself a regular Sears, Irwin set that has both Metric and SAE. Then decide which of the many taps and dies you will use, and then go buy them to replace the ones in the Sears or Irwin sets. Be sure to get some high quality cobalt drill bits for the most popular tap sizes you are most likely to use. .
The Craftsman set that I have is probably 40 years old, and to be honest there are many taps and dies that have never been used. For example, most all of the fine pitch taps on the left have never been used, but the taps on the right have all been replaced with either gun taps, or hi-spiral taps.
My preferred lubricant is Tap Magic. http://www.tapmagic.com/products
And if you don't already have one of these, you should get one like this:
Westward Tap and Reamer Aligner/Holder, 0 - 1/2 In 2CYU5 | Zoro
Order Westward Tap and Reamer Aligner/Holder, 0 - 1/2 In, 2CYU5 at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.
www.zoro.com
Attachments
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BlakeTheCarGuy
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Irwin isn’t bad. Harbor Freight isn’t bad either believe it or not. I’ve used that set professionally for awhile and you really can’t beat it. So have many of my coworkers as well.
bob15
Well-known member
Buy individual 2 or 3 piece taps and get adjustable round dies. McMaster Carr is a good place to get them. Start with what you need/use most often and then work up from there.
Tap handles: Starrett.
Those tap & die sets aren't really that great when compared to buying separate components.
Tap handles: Starrett.
Those tap & die sets aren't really that great when compared to buying separate components.
Yes the I have a Lang thread retore kit, Bigger kit then in the link. I would like a set that has Metric and SAE as I never know what I will be tinkering with. I do have starrett taps now in random sizes, I am looking at a Gear wrench kit and a Craftsmen kit at the moment.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
The really OLD Craftsman set were very good. Like 30+ years ago
FuzzyTiger
Well-known member
The advice I've always been given about tap and die sets is to not buy them. They won't be good quality and the sets that are good quality are going to be extremely expensive.
Buy the specific sizes you need as you need them and pay for good quality ones. You really don't want tool steel breaking off inside your work piece.
Buy the specific sizes you need as you need them and pay for good quality ones. You really don't want tool steel breaking off inside your work piece.
bob15
Well-known member
Getting a starter tap and a bottoming tap for each size is the best way to do it. TiN coating is also really nice for longevity and ease of tapping.
jrsavoie
Well-known member
Check Ebay for used name brand sets. And replace what you need with quality cutting tools.
tyyost
Well-known member
I have several sets, some Irwin, both newer and older, a 90‘s craftsman set with some larger tap sizes, a set of Astro Pneumatic metric mechanics taps, as well as a box of loose taps. Like everyone else suggests, if I have a threading job I know about I buy a quality one or two from McMaster, along with a good drill bit to be on the safe side.
I think most sets are a compromise at best. If I was buying a new general purpose set with your budget I’d want a set that has the drills included, especially for metric as I don‘t have a decent set of metric drill bits, and some decent tap and die handles. The Gearwrench set looks like it may do ok, seems pretty complete. I wouldn’t rule it out for a set to have on hand.
Since I have had my rethreading kit my use for dies has dropped to almost nothing. I can’t remember the last time I cut new threads with a die, but I’m sure next week something will pop up. I like the Astro set because it fits a dedicated spot in my mechanic arsenal to drill and tap metric threads in common sizes. (And it’s around $40)
I think most sets are a compromise at best. If I was buying a new general purpose set with your budget I’d want a set that has the drills included, especially for metric as I don‘t have a decent set of metric drill bits, and some decent tap and die handles. The Gearwrench set looks like it may do ok, seems pretty complete. I wouldn’t rule it out for a set to have on hand.
Since I have had my rethreading kit my use for dies has dropped to almost nothing. I can’t remember the last time I cut new threads with a die, but I’m sure next week something will pop up. I like the Astro set because it fits a dedicated spot in my mechanic arsenal to drill and tap metric threads in common sizes. (And it’s around $40)
dr_clyde
Well-known member
Taps and dies worth owning typically don't come in "sets". They are sold individually at industrial supply houses.
If you really want a "kit" in a case, which is what most people appear to actually want, buy the one with the case you like the most, dump the taps in the trash, and take the case into the industrial supply and say "filler up". That fancy case looks organized and professional to a lot of people, and for some reason not being able to buy good industrial tools in "sets" really throws off a lot of people.
This is assuming you plan to cut new threads in metal and not just clean rust out of brake caliper bolt holes, and want the tap to last for more than a half dozen holes. These sets targeted at auto mechanics are nothing more than high carbon steel that is a bit harder than the metal you're trying to tap. They are brittle, don't last very long, and are really glorified thread cleaners. You want HSS or high speed steel. This is a category of tool steels that are more resistant to wear and dulling at higher temperatures, thus can be run faster and harder than plain high carbon steel and still maintain their heat treat, and therefore an edge. This is primarily due to the addition of molybdenum and tungsten alloys. High carbon steel tools stopped being used in industry back in the 50's. The only reason you can still buy stuff made from it is due to it being CHEEP CHEEP CHEEP.
Avoid any cutting tools sold on the tool trucks, the auto parts stores, and the box stores. There is a reason machinists don't shop there for drills, taps, and other cutters. Shop MSC, McMaster-Carr, Travers, KBC tools, Production Tool Supply, and other industrial supply houses.
Norseman/CTD, Union Butterfield, Greenfield, Cleveland/Cle-line, Guhring, OSG, Toledo, and PTD are all brands I would recommend. I want to say the last Union butterfield taps I bought were around $5-8 each, so good taps are actually very reasonable.
If you really want a "kit" in a case, which is what most people appear to actually want, buy the one with the case you like the most, dump the taps in the trash, and take the case into the industrial supply and say "filler up". That fancy case looks organized and professional to a lot of people, and for some reason not being able to buy good industrial tools in "sets" really throws off a lot of people.
This is assuming you plan to cut new threads in metal and not just clean rust out of brake caliper bolt holes, and want the tap to last for more than a half dozen holes. These sets targeted at auto mechanics are nothing more than high carbon steel that is a bit harder than the metal you're trying to tap. They are brittle, don't last very long, and are really glorified thread cleaners. You want HSS or high speed steel. This is a category of tool steels that are more resistant to wear and dulling at higher temperatures, thus can be run faster and harder than plain high carbon steel and still maintain their heat treat, and therefore an edge. This is primarily due to the addition of molybdenum and tungsten alloys. High carbon steel tools stopped being used in industry back in the 50's. The only reason you can still buy stuff made from it is due to it being CHEEP CHEEP CHEEP.
Avoid any cutting tools sold on the tool trucks, the auto parts stores, and the box stores. There is a reason machinists don't shop there for drills, taps, and other cutters. Shop MSC, McMaster-Carr, Travers, KBC tools, Production Tool Supply, and other industrial supply houses.
Norseman/CTD, Union Butterfield, Greenfield, Cleveland/Cle-line, Guhring, OSG, Toledo, and PTD are all brands I would recommend. I want to say the last Union butterfield taps I bought were around $5-8 each, so good taps are actually very reasonable.
I picked up this set a couple weeks ago, it includes the common sae sizes and the corresponding numbered drill for each. Seems pretty decent so far: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SG6C4A4/?tag=atomicindus08-20
macgee
Well-known member
Have to agree with others, buying new sets now a days is not rewarding. What you get (low quality) and for the price you have to pay is not worth it.
To all the GJ members here who have bought sets a while back, go look at your set and see how many taps and dies that have actually been used out of the set? I'm betting not too many different ones were used (of course there's going to be that one GJ member who says he of course uses all of them
). Then divide the cost of the set and taps & dies used, I'm betting it ends up not being a better value than buying a tap when needed.
Also agree to stay away from mechanic shop suppliers and tool trucks to buy taps and instead source ones used by machinist (they're better); its not worth the gamble. Very good Individual taps do not cost that much and consider the problems/impact of using lower quality taps and it breaks. Is saving some bucks worth more than the piece your tapping and all your time/impact trying to remove the broken tap? Also add the potential cost of material used up (carbon bit) up to remove the tap, I bet they'll cost more than the tap itself.
I would look for OSG, GTD = Greenfield, Morse, sossner, Besly, Titex, Guhring, Dormer and Emuge taps.
Make sure they're labeled HSS (high speed), avoid regular steel and carbon taps..
Having said all that, I've been hearing good things about viking taps, they make a tap w/matching drill bit set but I have no experience with them. I hate the idea of having to wait or hassle to drop what your doing for the tap to arrive but planning ahead reduced that.
Having a Kastar/Lang or Jawco set is very useful, highly recommended and easily pays for itself. Never use a tap or regular die to clean threads, your virtually removing metal off the threads and weakening them.
Lastly, a thread file cleaner is really good to have metric & SAE for those weird sizes, they work well and can do wonders.
To all the GJ members here who have bought sets a while back, go look at your set and see how many taps and dies that have actually been used out of the set? I'm betting not too many different ones were used (of course there's going to be that one GJ member who says he of course uses all of them
). Then divide the cost of the set and taps & dies used, I'm betting it ends up not being a better value than buying a tap when needed.Also agree to stay away from mechanic shop suppliers and tool trucks to buy taps and instead source ones used by machinist (they're better); its not worth the gamble. Very good Individual taps do not cost that much and consider the problems/impact of using lower quality taps and it breaks. Is saving some bucks worth more than the piece your tapping and all your time/impact trying to remove the broken tap? Also add the potential cost of material used up (carbon bit) up to remove the tap, I bet they'll cost more than the tap itself.
I would look for OSG, GTD = Greenfield, Morse, sossner, Besly, Titex, Guhring, Dormer and Emuge taps.
Make sure they're labeled HSS (high speed), avoid regular steel and carbon taps..
Having said all that, I've been hearing good things about viking taps, they make a tap w/matching drill bit set but I have no experience with them. I hate the idea of having to wait or hassle to drop what your doing for the tap to arrive but planning ahead reduced that.
Having a Kastar/Lang or Jawco set is very useful, highly recommended and easily pays for itself. Never use a tap or regular die to clean threads, your virtually removing metal off the threads and weakening them.
Lastly, a thread file cleaner is really good to have metric & SAE for those weird sizes, they work well and can do wonders.
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FuzzyTiger
Well-known member
I made the mistake of buying a cheap set thinking that having the tool and being able to do the work is more valuable than not having it or having a nicer tool in the wrong size.To all the GJ members here who have bought sets a while back, go look at your set and see how many taps and dies that have actually been used out of the set? I'm betting not too many different ones were used (of course there's going to be that GJ member who says he of course uses all of them
Only problem is that it seems every time I've needed a tap or die, the set doesn't have the right size. I've only managed the use the set once, every other time it's been individual pieces. It might just be bad luck on my part but experience tells me that most of the time any tool sold in a set will have a few common sizes but most will be useless fillers and they'll always be missing the sizes you need on a Friday evening which no retailer open on the weekend carries.
I've got the HF combination metric/standard set. I don't use it professionally or on a daily basis, but it has worked fine for me the several times I've needed it. I haven't run into a problem with it not having the thread size needed.
My plan was to buy the kit so I would have odd sizes, and then as needed upgrade the most used taps to a better quiality. Taps are not something I need often but I think are good to have on hand. I do have a few sizes in my shop. I do have a nice Lang set of thread restores. I know in the kit there are going to be a lot that I will never use but figured you never do know.
tyyost
Well-known member
This is why I bought sets too. I have some good 8-32, 1/4-20, 5/16-18, 3/8 16 and 1/2—13 taps, but like indicated above conventional wisdom for me is to buy taps for the job when I know it is coming up. The sets are primarily intended to fill the gap and let me move on with the job that needs to get done, maybe it’s one or two threaded holes on a bracket that needs a fine thread attachment, or a bolt that needs a few extra threads cut. Thats also why I recommended sets with nicer tap and die handles, because separately they can eat up a small budget. While Starrett mentioned above are great, prices starting at $30 tend to be overkill in a just in case type of scenario.
If you are considering industrial supply singles or stock hardware in common sizes McMaster has handy 3 tap sets that give you the taper, plug, and bottoming tap in each size.
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All these blah blah blah don't buy the set people always come crawling out for these threads. Ignore them, completely.
Buy the set first...when you figure out which ones you always use or wear out, replace those with good singles. You still need the tap wrenches and drive tools. You will still occasionally need that one oddball tap to clean out a thread or cut a single new one that having the set will solve.
We're not all machinists cutting the same new threads every day.
Personally I have the biggest gearwrench set, it's been perfectly fine for years.
Buy the set first...when you figure out which ones you always use or wear out, replace those with good singles. You still need the tap wrenches and drive tools. You will still occasionally need that one oddball tap to clean out a thread or cut a single new one that having the set will solve.
We're not all machinists cutting the same new threads every day.
Personally I have the biggest gearwrench set, it's been perfectly fine for years.
blazemaster83
Well-known member
Whatever it is, make sure it's HSS - High Speed Steel, and not carbon steel.
I bought a large used Craftsman set off the tool truck for next to nothing, just because I like to spend money on things.
In reality the few SAE taps I have had for 40 years and the small set of basic Craftsman ones I bought years ago would be sufficient for most stuff I run into.... I use thread chasers/restorers and thread files rather than taps/dies to repair most damage.
Now I don't care how you spend your $$$ on tools, if you want a complete set right down to ACME and Witworth go for it.
What I do care bout is that you buy cheap taps and run it into a previously tapped hole that was done to a precise tolerance and you remove metal and turn it into garbage
Not all taps and dies are the same, and rather than me trying to explain it read this before you buy something that is going to have you heli-coiling a engine block
In reality the few SAE taps I have had for 40 years and the small set of basic Craftsman ones I bought years ago would be sufficient for most stuff I run into.... I use thread chasers/restorers and thread files rather than taps/dies to repair most damage.
Now I don't care how you spend your $$$ on tools, if you want a complete set right down to ACME and Witworth go for it.
What I do care bout is that you buy cheap taps and run it into a previously tapped hole that was done to a precise tolerance and you remove metal and turn it into garbage
Not all taps and dies are the same, and rather than me trying to explain it read this before you buy something that is going to have you heli-coiling a engine block
dr_clyde
Well-known member
Just because my experience is different than yours doesn’t make it less valid.
I don’t appreciate you telling folks to “completely ignore” posts that you don’t agree with.
At the end of the day I don’t give a **** how people spend their money. They asked for our opinions, yours and mine. I gave my honest opinion.
My experience is that generic tap and die sets are a massive rip off and waste of money and inevitable time spent removing broken taps. Cheap taps break easily and end up costing way more time and money than I’d you just spent an extra couple bucks and bought the good stuff in the first place.
Good taps are not that expensive. This is one of those times where it’s absolutely worth the extra 20% or so to get professional tools.
I run a machine shop, so obviously I need good taps. How does my experience disqualify me from making recommendations? If I was in the OP’s shoes, I’d rather take the opinion of the guy who taps a lot of holes on what taps to buy than the weekend warrior who’s just had hood luck with their box store set that they use once every six months.
I’m glad your GW set has worked for you, but please don’t say to ignore posts from people with experience contrary to yours.
rslaback
Well-known member
I've had good luck with both Gearwrench and Irwin sets in an industrial maintenance environment. The GW 3887 set would be a good starter set.
If you are comfortable with Amazon Warehouse you can knock it down to $120ish: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HBDW48/?tag=atomicindus08-20
GEARWRENCH 75 Piece Ratcheting Tap and Die Set, SAE/Metric - 3887 - - Amazon.com
GEARWRENCH 75 Piece Ratcheting Tap and Die Set, SAE/Metric - 3887 - - Amazon.com
www.amazon.com
Pardon Our Interruption...
www.ebay.com
If you are comfortable with Amazon Warehouse you can knock it down to $120ish: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HBDW48/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Right out of college in the mid 90's I worked as a metal Fabricator/Welder and we had machinest ( I did machine so I am familiar with taps ) We used 4 sizes for the most part and we used starret/hanson/irwin taps now this is going back many years and I am now just looking for stuff to have on hand if needed. I have a few taps in my shop but I recently ran into a situation where I needed a metric odd ball. I don't think the random use justifies a top of the line kit.
Noltz
Well-known member
I've had the Canadian Tire set for 15+ years. It's a SAE & Metric kit. I've replaced M6, M8 & M10x1.25 metric taps with Snap On because they're far better quality & he comes to me. Those are the three sizes I run into 98% of the time. If it breaks, it gets replaced within a week, no questions. I've added a few that were missing from the kit too. Overall cheaper than buying an entire quality kit, and I have the capacity to solve the problem at hand.
bob15
Well-known member
So maybe I should ignore you for your bad advise (IMHO).
The drive tools in those kits ****, period. As I have stated, buy the Starrett tap handles once and you will realize what a good tool it is, even if used periodically.
Oh, and I'm not a machinist. Never said I was nor do I plan to go into that field or line of work, but I know what works best and it isn't those kits.
matt_i
Well-known member
I'd get these individual taps in spiral point...
6-32, 8-32, 10-24, 10-32, 1/4-20, 5/16-18, 3/8-16, 1/2-13
M4 M5, M6, M8, M10, M12 (coarse threads).
and not spiral point...but...1/8 NPT 1/4 NPT
And you're going to need some tap-drills also just throwing out a few. #25, #21, #7, 3.3mm, 5mm, 4.2mm, etc, etc.
Probably could drop $200 at McMaster carr and cover 99% of what's out there with the above setup.
Where you need fine theads or bottoming, order these for the individual job or buy locally. I'm a fan of spiral-flute taps for bottoming where you can do this in a rigid machine setup. While I would use spiral point taps all day long in a hand drill I would not do the same for the spiral flute.
6-32, 8-32, 10-24, 10-32, 1/4-20, 5/16-18, 3/8-16, 1/2-13
M4 M5, M6, M8, M10, M12 (coarse threads).
and not spiral point...but...1/8 NPT 1/4 NPT
And you're going to need some tap-drills also just throwing out a few. #25, #21, #7, 3.3mm, 5mm, 4.2mm, etc, etc.
Probably could drop $200 at McMaster carr and cover 99% of what's out there with the above setup.
Where you need fine theads or bottoming, order these for the individual job or buy locally. I'm a fan of spiral-flute taps for bottoming where you can do this in a rigid machine setup. While I would use spiral point taps all day long in a hand drill I would not do the same for the spiral flute.
I'm in the same boat a dr clyde on sets, I'd rather have good individual taps, especially for common sizes. I did buy good mid grade tap sets from Champion to keep like in the service truck so if I have to pull out a random metric tap on the road I'm set but otherwise we get ours individually as we need em.
I agree on the crappy drive tools in sets too, most of the time I reach for my tap sockets, and use a socket or wrench on hex dies.
I agree on the crappy drive tools in sets too, most of the time I reach for my tap sockets, and use a socket or wrench on hex dies.
nadogail
Well-known member
My taps were purchased by a former employer who replaced the cheap set I told them I wore them out at work.
They didn’t know the difference between Harbor Freight and Greenfield. I did,
They didn’t know the difference between Harbor Freight and Greenfield. I did,
You're both more than welcome to ignore me, as long as the OP doesn't.
Buying singles only make sense when you know what sizes you need and are working with them daily. For 99% of people who use a tap to chase a hole once and a while or re-tap a stripped hole to a new size, the sets will work just fine. Most broken taps are from people forcing them, not cleaning chips, and not keeping them square, doesn't matter if it's an expensive tap or one out of a set, you'll break them just the same.
We're not talking 20% more here or anything either, a Starrett tap handle alone goes for $75-125, enough to pay for half of a decent set. A single Irwin tap (let alone some of the other brands) are $10-20/each. Nobody is going to put together a full set of singles, it would be $1000+ and nothing ***** more than needing a tap you don't have on hand at 6pm on a Saturday. Having the set means you are prepared, have a good variety, and then can add on higher quality singles (AS I SAID) when they discover their commonly used ones.
Running a machine shop disqualifies you from making reasonable recommendations to the common DIYer or mechanic or hobbiest or maintenance guy....you can only see things the way you use them. If someone needed recommendations on the best tap for daily machine shop use, then please step right up.
bob15
Well-known member
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Starrett tap handle $75-125? Where? The Starrett website site list price for them is half of what you are saying and even cheaper yet on amazon or if even cheaper if you use a coupon and go onto Zoro's website. E-bay is another great resource to buy a tap handle that actually works really well (unlike those in the kits). And the die handles are about fifteen bucks on McMaster's website.
Do you understand anything about taps? Why I ask? Because a starter tap (or taper tap) is used to prevent broken taps by getting the hole's threads to be perpendicular to the hole. This ensures the tapped threads are square and straight into the hole, unlike your plug tap which is very easy to start crooked and then snap off inside the hole.
How and where are you buying all your stuff for a grand? Are you really that ignorant or are you just anyother keyboard commando that doesn't know jack? I guess you have never heard of McMaster Carr or MSC before? Try going their websites and actually see what stuff for before spewing bad information about prices.
I don't own or work in a machine shop and still recommend buying single taps because you should strive to use the best possible tool to do the job the safest and smartest way. And yes; I own, I use and I will always recommend a 2 at minimum or 3 tap (best case) set.
Joe.G: I would also recommend getting tapping fluid as well. A 16 ounce bottle of Tap Magic will last you a long time and help prolong the life of your thread cutting tools.
jar944
Well-known member
Sets are generally garbage. I still have a couple craftsman sets from 25 years ago (yep garbage)
Carbon steel taps are all hot garbage
Ground HSS taps are the only way to go IMHO. Need a tap, order it.
Carbon steel taps are all hot garbage
Ground HSS taps are the only way to go IMHO. Need a tap, order it.
Zebu Fellenz
Well-known member
I have some older Irwin Hanson sets. No complaints on the quality, they're not the tools I'll grab if I'm in the machine shop building something where I'll be tapping dozens of holes but I've also never broken one where it wasn't clearly my fault and the case is super convenient to keep things organized.
Assuming the quality hasn't fallen off a cliff in the last 20 years I wouldn't hesitate to start with a set and replace the most used bits with better tools as needed. When I need a tap it's seldom a situation where "order it" sounds like a good idea.
Assuming the quality hasn't fallen off a cliff in the last 20 years I wouldn't hesitate to start with a set and replace the most used bits with better tools as needed. When I need a tap it's seldom a situation where "order it" sounds like a good idea.
Angry much? No need to call me names.
Top results on Amazon.com searching "Starrett Tap Handle", so maybe I should have said $51.62 to $165.87 to be more accurate....
The grand comment is if you tried to buy all the pieces of a regular set in singles...average 100 piece tap and die set, $10/piece on average = $1000. Makes no sense buying singles to have on hand all the variety a regular joe would want. 99% of people using taps at home are not making new holes, they're chasing stuff or fixing stuff and don't know the sizes they'll need in advance. I sure as hell don't want to have to order and wait a couple days to get the single tap because I ran into a size I don't have when repairing a lawn mower or something.
You sound like the guy who would say only Snap-On tools work and anything else is a waste of money. Might as well just buy sockets in singles too right? No point in getting any socket set since they're all **** unless you buy them the most expensive way possible and if you don't do that, they will all break and not turn the bolt.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
It's pretty clear you don't actually know what you're talking about, and will continue to spread false information or at the very least misleading information. You're representing the extremes, not the typical use cases.Angry much? No need to call me names.
Top results on Amazon.com searching "Starrett Tap Handle", so maybe I should have said $51.62 to $165.87 to be more accurate....
The grand comment is if you tried to buy all the pieces of a regular set in singles...average 100 piece tap and die set, $10/piece on average = $1000. Makes no sense buying singles to have on hand all the variety a regular joe would want. 99% of people using taps at home are not making new holes, they're chasing stuff or fixing stuff and don't know the sizes they'll need in advance. I sure as hell don't want to have to order and wait a couple days to get the single tap because I ran into a size I don't have when repairing a lawn mower or something.
You sound like the guy who would say only Snap-On tools work and anything else is a waste of money. Might as well just buy sockets in singles too right? No point in getting any socket set since they're all **** unless you buy them the most expensive way possible and if you don't do that, they will all break and not turn the bolt.
The starrett handles you have linked are the top of the line, and represent the highest quality available. They are also NOT what we are saying you should buy as a single. The $165 dollar handle will take up to a 3/4" tap. That ain't going to be in a set. Buy whatever handle you like, they all work pretty much the same. It is the TAP that matters. Sure, the starrett ones are smooth, well made, and heirloom quality. But it still just drives a square end.
Taps are not intended to be used as thread chasers. They are meant to cut new holes. If you're just using them as thread chasers, you aren't comparing apples to apples. If you are using your cheap taps as thread chasers, they probably will last quite a while, because they're not actually doing much. If you use taps to actually thread holes, you will quickly notice the difference. I'd rather have taps that cut threads repeatedly and reliably, as well as cleanup the occasional damaged thread.
You want the convenience of a set. You want the fancy box with all the labeled holes and pockets that you can pull out of your toolbox and have all the sizes. That's easy to get. You take the tap chart, go into the industrial supply and buy one of each size listed that corresponds to what you work on. Put them in a drawer. Done. I have not now, nor have I ever recommended buying a tap onesey twosey as needed. Just go buy one or two in each common size and build your set.
Why wait a few days? Mcmaster has overnight shipping, and most industrial supply houses have counter sales. I can buy most any size tap over the counter locally from a good industrial brand 6 days a week.
If you actually use taps to thread holes, get good ones. If you want a set to give you warm fuzzies for "just in case" go ahead and get a set.
It is pretty telling that anyone who actually uses taps and other machining cutters does not recommend the cheap sets. We've been there, learned that lesson the hard way. My shop removes broken taps from parts that auto mechanics bring in pretty frequently. "hey its a snap-on tap, I'll just get a warranty replacement". Yeah, but you spent $100 on my shop rate getting the broken one out of the head or whatever. Same with drills, end mills, lathe toolbits, carbide inserts, and so on and so forth.
The opportunity cost of removing a broken tap outweighs the difference in tap cost every time. Downtime, machine shop costs, and the added hassle of having to buy another tap to replace the broken one are all way more expensive than just buying a freaking $10 or $15 dollar good tap.
To the OP,
If you really want a set, they do actually sell some sets in quality HSS tooling. You pay for the extra bits and bobs you don't need, but it all comes in a set. Norseman CTD makes a good one.
Page 16 and 17
I keep these sets in my service van. Handy because they have the drills too.
HSS Drill & Tap Sets | Norseman Drill & Tool
Norseman Drill & Tool - Includes corresponding drill with tap in a durable metal case all manufactured in the USA.
Good grief.
It's pretty clear you don't actually know what you're talking about, and will continue to spread false information or at the very least misleading information. You're representing the extremes, not the typical use cases.
The starrett handles you have linked are the top of the line, and represent the highest quality available. They are also NOT what we are saying you should buy as a single. The $165 dollar handle will take up to a 3/4" tap. That ain't going to be in a set. Buy whatever handle you like, they all work pretty much the same. It is the TAP that matters. Sure, the starrett ones are smooth, well made, and heirloom quality. But it still just drives a square end.
Taps are not intended to be used as thread chasers. They are meant to cut new holes. If you're just using them as thread chasers, you aren't comparing apples to apples. If you are using your cheap taps as thread chasers, they probably will last quite a while, because they're not actually doing much. If you use taps to actually thread holes, you will quickly notice the difference. I'd rather have taps that cut threads repeatedly and reliably, as well as cleanup the occasional damaged thread.
You want the convenience of a set. You want the fancy box with all the labeled holes and pockets that you can pull out of your toolbox and have all the sizes. That's easy to get. You take the tap chart, go into the industrial supply and buy one of each size listed that corresponds to what you work on. Put them in a drawer. Done. I have not now, nor have I ever recommended buying a tap onesey twosey as needed. Just go buy one or two in each common size and build your set.
Why wait a few days? Mcmaster has overnight shipping, and most industrial supply houses have counter sales. I can buy most any size tap over the counter locally from a good industrial brand 6 days a week.
If you actually use taps to thread holes, get good ones. If you want a set to give you warm fuzzies for "just in case" go ahead and get a set.
It is pretty telling that anyone who actually uses taps and other machining cutters does not recommend the cheap sets. We've been there, learned that lesson the hard way. My shop removes broken taps from parts that auto mechanics bring in pretty frequently. "hey its a snap-on tap, I'll just get a warranty replacement". Yeah, but you spent $100 on my shop rate getting the broken one out of the head or whatever. Same with drills, end mills, lathe toolbits, carbide inserts, and so on and so forth.
The opportunity cost of removing a broken tap outweighs the difference in tap cost every time. Downtime, machine shop costs, and the added hassle of having to buy another tap to replace the broken one are all way more expensive than just buying a freaking $10 or $15 dollar good tap.
To the OP,
If you really want a set, they do actually sell some sets in quality HSS tooling. You pay for the extra bits and bobs you don't need, but it all comes in a set. Norseman CTD makes a good one.
Page 16 and 17
I keep these sets in my service van. Handy because they have the drills too.
HSS Drill & Tap Sets | Norseman Drill & Tool
Norseman Drill & Tool - Includes corresponding drill with tap in a durable metal case all manufactured in the USA.www.norsemandrill.com
Good grief.
Do you honestly think the op is asking about tapping dozens of new holes every day? Again, 99% of people on this forum use their taps once or twice a month for one or two holes at most. I also said a couple times now, buy singles once you know what you need for specific uses. If he's going to go and tap dozens of 3/8-16's then sure, order a single in advance. Otherwise, get the set to start.
This statement:
"It's pretty clear you don't actually know what you're talking about, and will continue to spread false information or at the very least misleading information. You're representing the extremes, not the typical use cases."
Right back at you.
jar944
Well-known member
If I need a tap its likely a odd size to correct previous hacks work,, and I'm ordering it anyway.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
At the end of the day, it’s not my money, or my parts. I really don’t care.
If I only tapped one hole a year, I’d still get good taps.
It’s not about “getting away” with a cheap set. It’s not about using it once or twice a month.
It’s about snapping off a cheap tap down in a hole because you cheaped out and bought ****. It’s about getting furious when your tap breaking causes you HOURS of extra work because you tried to save a buck.
Do what you will. I give no fucks.