Questions for Swedish pipe wrench users (jaw forms / DIN 5234)

[Bayday]

Hello all,

I'm intrigued by the so-called Swedish pipe wrench, which I've recently learned of (likely thanks to this forum!). I've noticed that it's commonly available with different jaws, but my search-engine-fu is struggling to turn up much practical info on the uses of each jaw. I suspect that this info may just be common knowledge in regions where the Swedish pipe wrench is commonplace, or perhaps readily apparent upon use. I'd appreciate if those with experience using them would share their insight.

So far, the best info I found is the German Wikipedia page ( https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohrzange ). It seems to say there are essentially two characteristics: jaw angle & jaw form. The jaw angle is roughly either 90 or 45 degrees, the latter known as a corner pipe wrench. The jaw form is one of A, B, or C (seemingly defined in DIN 5234). Form A has two flat jaw faces, form B has one flat and one "v"-shaped face, and form C is "s" shaped (ignoring tooth profile in all cases). For examples of 90-degree form A, see here: https://www.knipex.com/products/pipe-wrenches-and-water-pump-pliers/pipe-wrenches-90 , and for examples of corner-angled form C, see here: https://www.knipex.com/products/pipe-wrenches-and-water-pump-pliers/pipe-wrenches-s-type .

1) Is the info / my understanding above accurate?
2) What is the purpose of DIN 5234? Does it specify anything more than jaw shape?
3) Why does it seem that a 90-degree model is only available in form A?

The German Wikipedia page seems to goes on to say that form A is for gripping parallel faces (e.g. a hex nut), form C is for gripping round objects (e.g. a pipe), and form B is for gripping both. Additionally, the 90-degree variant benefits from always having both jaws directly across from each other regardless of how large the gripped object is, which is not the case with the corner variant (even though the jaws remain parallel).

4) Is the info / my understanding above accurate?
5) Does a truly conscientious professional own all forms and use each for specific tasks? Does a specification or work order ever stipulate the use of a particular form?
6) In practice, are there situations where an angle+form combination performs noticeably better or worse than the alternatives?
7) If you could only have one angle+form combination, which would it be?

It appears to me that Snap-on, Knipex & Harbor Freight may have the most market share of Swedish pipe wrenches in the American market. I notice that Snap-on's PWZ is exclusively 90-degree form A (though the PWZ5 upper does look v-shaped, would it qualify as form B if there aren't teeth on both sides?). Harbor Freight's single offering is also 90-degree form A. However, Knipex offers the 90-degree form A, corner-angled form A, and corner-angled form C (s-type). Should one construe this local availability (absent form B, common 90-degree form A) as an implicit answer to some of the questions above?

If you were wondering, I am considering buying a Swedish pipe wrench. Nonetheless, I am still genuinely curious about the answers to all the above, and some of it will help me make a selection.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Farmer J.]

Good Morning Bayday, and welcome to the GJ. Thanks for your message, I normally only look at Vintage tool section so would have missed your thread.
I've been using the swedish style pipe wrench for 40 yrs, it's a much loved tool. Mine were 'Made in West Germany', no makers name on them. I also have a selection of 'stillson' style ones, even bought a new snap on 18" one years ago but use the swedish style much more often.
The advantage is, you can squeeze the handles together as you start to grip and get a much better 'bite' on the workpiece. In fact it's easy to crush thin walled pipe so be careful about this. The grip can be immense and great for getting in to tricky spots on any round object (like a broken drive shaft on a grain auger inside a combine harvester..!!..). The narrow jaws help too.
I don't have answers to all your questions but here's some. Just my opinion:
- No. 1: Yes
-No. 2. DIN is a German quality standard and specification. Anything with a 'DIN' number on it is usually pretty danged good!
-No. 4: Yes
-No 6:
The 90deg jaw ones do have the advantage of opening wide and parallel, but grip on round objects is limited by the length of the toothed jaws and the radius or the object. They're great for square things though, like welding fabricating 3"square steel to twist and line up, also 4" wood posts which have twisted out of line!

-No 7:
The 45deg jaws 18" model with 's' type serrated jaws are the most useful all round pipe wrench. https://www.knipex.com/products/pipe-wrenches-and-water-pump-pliers/pipe-wrenches-s-type

If you want smooth jaws, better to use a Plierwrench https://www.knipex.com/products/pip...wrenches-pliers-and-a-wrench-in-a-single-tool

Knipex are great top quality tools, buy them if you can. I suppose Snap On will be good too, don't know who makes them.

If you want to carry just one versatile pipe wrenching tool in your truck box, I have had a Bahco adjustable wrench with a reversible jaw for years and it's often got me out of trouble (water troughs for thirsty cattle miles from anywhere) and works surprisingly well! Like this, only mine is too old to have a rubber handle. https://www.bahco.com/gb_en/ergotm-...le-wrenches-with-rubber-handle-pb_9031p_.html

Hope this helps, may be some more GJ knowledge will chime in soon. J

 

[Qualitytools]

The Snap-On ones are made by Bahco.

 

[Bayday]

Thanks for the welcome & info.

The 90deg jaw ones do have the advantage of opening wide and parallel, but grip on round objects is limited by the length of the toothed jaws and the radius or the object.

You're referring to 90-degree form A (straight jaws, with teeth of course)? Is this round grip limitation primarily due to limited tooth contact near the single tangent on each straight jaw, or because the jaws may not always be long enough to reach the center of the round object?

If you want smooth jaws, better to use a Plierwrench https://www.knipex.com/products/pip...wrenches-pliers-and-a-wrench-in-a-single-tool

It's hard not to trip over the glowing opinions of these on GJ! I was also unaware of these until recently, and now I'm very eager to try them!

Knipex are great top quality tools, buy them if you can. I suppose Snap On will be good too, don't know who makes them.

The Snap-On ones are made by Bahco.

I haven't actually bothered to check, but I'd assume Bahco makes other variants besides the the 90-degree form A which Snap-on only sells. Fortunately, the Knipex are rather available in the U.S. (including s-jaw variants).

Like this, only mine is too old to have a rubber handle. https://www.bahco.com/gb_en/ergotm-...le-wrenches-with-rubber-handle-pb_9031p_.html

Thanks for the link, those are also new to me. I've seen mention of such a wrench, but I was not clear on what it was. Initially, the non-parallel serrated jaw seems very odd. Applying inward radial pressure is not necessary on a "normal" (flat-faced, parallel jaw) adjustable wrench, but I suppose it is necessary here? Now I'm looking forward to trying these too!

 

[Farmer J.]

Thanks for the welcome & info.


You're referring to 90-degree form A (straight jaws, with teeth of course)? Is this round grip limitation primarily due to limited tooth contact near the single tangent on each straight jaw, or because the jaws may not always be long enough to reach the center of the round object?


It's hard not to trip over the glowing opinions of these on GJ! I was also unaware of these until recently, and now I'm very eager to try them!



I haven't actually bothered to check, but I'd assume Bahco makes other variants besides the the 90-degree form A which Snap-on only sells. Fortunately, the Knipex are rather available in the U.S. (including s-jaw variants).


Thanks for the link, those are also new to me. I've seen mention of such a wrench, but I was not clear on what it was. Initially, the non-parallel serrated jaw seems very odd. Applying inward radial pressure is not necessary on a "normal" (flat-faced, parallel jaw) adjustable wrench, but I suppose it is necessary here? Now I'm looking forward to trying these too!

Hi, The limitation with the strait jaw 90 deg 'Form A' is mainly because the jaws are not long enough to reach the centre line of the round object, so they slip off the radius. ie, they are only usable if the radius of the object is less than the length of the jaws.

I tried the plierwrench since my son gave me one as a birthday present. It's great for convenience, but can be slightly tiring if used continuously as it requires the handles to be squeezed together in order to function. I have arthritic finger joints, so grip is limited. For a 'one off' job like grabbing it to adjust a gate hinge it's incredibly useful and so very convenient. Great for sheet metal bending work too!

The Bahco reversible jaw adjustable seems odd but works much better than one would expect, it does need to get a bite with the jaw teeth though so best used on soft metal pipe.

All my opinion is just that of a worn out old farmer, i'm not a professional or trained as an engineer. There's a wealth of technical knowledge her on GJ so look forward to seeing further posts and information on this.

 

[Farmer J.]

The Snap-On ones are made by Bahco.

That makes sense. I heard Bahco are now owned by Snap On? Or something like that. I'm not much bothered by all the 'big company news' merger/takeover/amalgamation/globalisation/whatever intricacies.... but, a few years ago the Bahco stuff stopped being made in Sweden and moved to Spain. The quality seems as good as ever, they're nice tools.

 

[neophyte]

Bahco is part of Snap-On Europe, which is owned by Snap-On, although I haven’t looked up all the specifics on the corporate structure.
Snap-On Europe owns a number of different other brands as well.
As far as Swedish manufacturing gies, a few things my still be made in Sweden, but much of the Swedish production was moved to Spain and France.
Bahco was one of Europe’s largest tool manufacturers, so they already had production outside Sweden in the past, including Spain, the UK, Portugal, Germany, France, maybe the Netherlands, and even South America at one point( wrenches), so “outsourcing” was already part of the brand.

As far as Swedish Style pipe wrenches go;
I’ve never used one, so I can’t give too many specifics.
The main difference between Bahco and the many of German and Euro made versions seems to do with how they’re made.
Bahco uses a formed piece of sheet metal for the one handle/jaw segment, with a forged jaw riveted to the formed sheet metal handle, similar to the way most Vise-Grip pliers are manufactured, and another formed sheet metal part for the handle next to the adjustable nut.

Most German manufacturers and similar versions used a solid forged handle instead of the bent sheet metal part the Bahco design uses.
Forged parts are usually stiffer, and may be stronger, but both designs have been around for decades, so I’m not sure if one manufacturing technique is better than the other, or more ergonomic.

As far as other design differences go,
I haven’t checked on the “standard” jaw designs, but most manufacturers offer three standards,
A right angle design, were the jaws are straight with serrations, and approximately 90 degrees to the handles.
Another version with straight serrated jaws, but with the jaws at approximately 135 degrees to the handles.
And another version were the jaws are at an approximate 135 degrees to the handles, but the jaws, instead of being straight and serated, usually have an S-Curve design with serrations.
These seem to be the three main standard designs.
I think there are also “thin jaw” versions available for some sizes, at least for the standard straight 90 and 135 degree jaw versions, and I think I saw a smooth jawed version at one point, but that might have only been from one or two manufacturers.

Lastly, most manufacturers seem to use the standard DIN designs, and the wrench jaws look similar.
VBW( a plier manufacturer owned by Stahlwille) seems to have modified the jaws on some of their Swedish pipe wrenches.
The S-Jaw design fir instance, has a notch on the lower jaw towards the front, which looks like it would provide extra grip on thinner rod or bolts.
Some of the VBW 135 jaw wrenches have a notch towards the back of the jaw that also seems to be for better holding of thinner pipes, making three serrated surfaces on the upper jaw.
Some of the “90 degree wrenches have an extra serrated surface plain toward the back of the jaw, so you get more of a three point contact on the pipe.

I don’t think VBW is really distributed in the USA, so if you want the VBW designs, you would likely have to import them from Germany, or buy them under the Stahlwille name, which tends to cost more.

 

[neophyte]

This shows the formed sheet metal, forged differences.

 

[neophyte]

This is the different jaw shapes.
Standard.

 

[neophyte]

VBW

 

[neophyte]

I think VBW offers both the older standard design for the pipe erenches, as well as their newer fancier jaw designs, plus fancier versions with the jaws having a bit of extra grinding, and new designs for a few sizes with a more ergonomic handle shape.
Here’s their annoyingly non PDF catalog for the wrenches.

Blätterkatalog

www.vbw.de

 

[WagonHo!]

bought these two to try them out. Top one is NWS German made, bottom one is Chi-wan I believe. Both work well on smaller jobs.

 

[pizza]

i have my eye on the Knipex Pipe Wrench S-Type With fast adjustment series and am strongly considering adding a couple to my next azde order.

83 61 010 (330mm)
83 61 015 (420mm)

Products | Knipex

www.knipex.com

thoughts on the fast adjustment vs classic versions?

 

[Bayday]

Oh, wow, more options! I guess I should be thankful the availability/cost of VBW/Stahlwille in the US may make the choice easier.

Whereas the German Wikipedia page positioned form B as the all-purpose option, and Farmer J. & my nascent gut feeling votes for form C (s-jaw), VBW says they can beat them all with their X-Grip:

S-SHAPE, 45° PLUMBER'S WRENCH OR THE 90° VERSION? VBW OFFERS THE IDEAL SOLUTION: THE X-GRIP HAS A SOPHISTICATED UNIVERSAL JAW DESIGN AND CORRESPONDING GEOMETRY FOR ALL THREE APPLICATIONS. THREE IN ONE!

(page 32 of the linked catalog)
Looks like my task is to wade through the marketing too. Were any of the other forms once proprietary?

VBW( a plier manufacturer owned by Stahlwille) seems to have modified the jaws on some of their Swedish pipe wrenches.
The S-Jaw design fir instance, has a notch on the lower jaw towards the front, which looks like it would provide extra grip on thinner rod or bolts.

I'm not seeing the VBW s-jaw difference. Don't all s-jaws have a notch near the front of the lower jaw?

Regarding the forged vs stamped, I notice that even some with forged rear handles seem to have a stamped piece between the lower jaw and the nut.

WagonHo! that smooth jaw wrench reminds me of the pliers-wrench. Have you tried the latter?

 

[WagonHo!]

“WagonHo! that smooth jaw wrench reminds me of the pliers-wrench. Have you tried the latter?”

Must not have, u got a photo?

 

[Bayday]

https://www.knipex.com/products/pip...wrenches-pliers-and-a-wrench-in-a-single-tool

 

[TjoFrasse]

As being from the land of the Swedish pattern pipe wrench, I can give some input to point 7 in the initial post.

I have mostly only seen the 90 degrees flat jaws and the 45 S-jaws, but the 45 flat jaws are also around. 420 or 560mm should be a good allround size.

I'm not a plumber though so my observations are more from homeowner use and other fields. If you want buying tips, I'd say get a Knipex. Should be readily available and cost as much or less than a Bahco. The 83 61 015 as mentioned earlier would be a good choice with the quick adjust feature also. If you can find Bahco for a good price they're nice also, they're a bit more compact.

 

[Bayday]

Thanks. I'm not a plumber either; I'll end up using the wrench for various DIY. It must mean something if the 90 form A & corner form C have momentum in the non-plumber market of the home of the Swedish pipe wrench!

There are access limitations on the first task for this wrench, so I continue to wait for Knipex to tell me the widths of the jaws...

 

[Monte]

I think the most common type over here is the "S" shape because it grabs pipes as well as hex nuts etc.
While Knipex is the biggest name in the pliers game here i think in case of pipe wrenches you might see the VBW brand more often.
These tools are usually indestructible, the only thing which can happen that you´ll loose the nut. But VBW for example sells spare nuts.

 

[TjoFrasse]

Just to show the prevalence of the straight 90 degree jaws here, here's all the ones I have collected over the years. Excluding the new ones, all of these has just been found on auctions and flea markets here in Sweden. Except for the 144, all of these has just showed up in the collection without me looking for them...

 

[Qualitytools]

WOW! impressive collection. Thanks for sharing

 

[Bayday]

Quite the collection!

Who makes those two corner-angled versions on the bottom left? One looks like form B, and the other is similar to form C (s-jaw) but without the smooth curves.

Any conjecture on the reason for the 90-degree form A prevalence? I imagine it could have been the first, and more units were sold. A picture of the inventor, Johan Petter Johansson, has him holding a large 90-degree form A wrench ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Petter_Johansson or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumber_wrench ). Seems Mr. Johansson has an association and museum in his honor; he must be pretty well known in Sweden.

Bad news: After pulling the part I need from a donor vehicle, I learned that I may be able to complete the installation without a Swedish pipe wrench. Clearly, I'll have to remedy this situation

 

[TjoFrasse]

Quite the collection!

Who makes those two corner-angled versions on the bottom left? One looks like form B, and the other is similar to form C (s-jaw) but without the smooth curves.

Any conjecture on the reason for the 90-degree form A prevalence? I imagine it could have been the first, and more units were sold. A picture of the inventor, Johan Petter Johansson, has him holding a large 90-degree form A wrench ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Petter_Johansson or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumber_wrench ). Seems Mr. Johansson has an association and museum in his honor; he must be pretty well known in Sweden.

Bad news: After pulling the part I need from a donor vehicle, I learned that I may be able to complete the installation without a Swedish pipe wrench. Clearly, I'll have to remedy this situation

The one with some teal color left is a VBW, German made. The blue one is a Acesa, made in Spain.

I think the reason for 90-degree straight jaws being the norm is because it was first and also probably the cheapest version. So when a home owner gets one that's they get. I don't know when the other versions were added to Bahcos lineup, but I do have a catalogue from 1949 and then there were no S-jaws and only a limited range of 45-degree straight jaws.

I wouldn't say known (outside of tool interested people), but Mr. Johansson is often held as great Swedish inventor. Strangely he is more remembered for the adjustable wrench than the pipe wrench though. When the adjustable wrench was just a small refinement of the Clyburn design and the pipe wrench was a original idea.

I'm sure you'll find some other reason to get one!

 

[AngryBeaver]

I’ve never seen someone obsessed with the differences in pipe wrenches. Lol. But this is garage journal.

ive been using the snap on (bahco with a better handle) for 20 years. So much, that I’ve removed all the pipe wrenches off my service truck except the 36” and 48”. I do mechanical work ranging from generators, to hvac removals and installs and pipe ranging from 1/4” to 8”. The notion that these 90 degree jaws are only meant for parallel objects (hex nuts) is asinine. They aren’t 90 degrees and they are in a pivot taper so the more leverage that’s applied the more it bites in without the cumbersome size of a conventional pipe wrench. They excel in limited space constraints With their ability to open more than a comparable sized pipe wrench, while having a smaller profile. The pwz1’s and pwz2’s are the most commonly used in automotive applications for tie rod removals

 

[pizza]

Knipex Pipe Wrench S-Type With fast adjustment

83 61 010 (330mm)
83 61 015 (420mm)

well, i finally bought them. they seem pretty nice.