Geothermal vs Natural gas

[86turbodsl]

Yeltdog, handling the heat in cooling mode was one of the benefits of the swimming pool as a source. Again, we put a glazed solar system on the pool and it provided the energy for the HP. In cooling we rejected heat to the pool. The pool would not be covered and we would have the deep space radiation cooling of the pool. One job we ended up having to install a small cooling tower as the pool just became to hot. One negative of this system ended up being the increase in pool chemicals as the high temps and lack of a cover burned them off. Again, these jobs were in ‘78-‘81, so… I worked on some direct geo jobs with the hot water resource here in the west. The Geo-Heat Center at Oregon Institute of Technology in Klamath Falls is a tremendous resource for info. I did a feasibility study with the DOE through OIT, studying a district heating cooling system for Calistoga, CA, Calistoga sits on a lake of high temp water. Problem was that it had 10ppm on boron. Taht will not hurt humans, but .5 ppm will kill a grape vine. This being in the Napa Valley the grape growers thought it a good idea to keep the water in the ground. There is no joy taking the growers on there

Some good ideas in here. I'm a nerd about it too. I've got penetrations in the foundation to add a loop for rejection to a pool if i ever put one in and i setup my primary loop on the radiant side to accept a heat exchanger for refrigeration if i ever get around to it. I had thought to build a refrigerator/freezer in the kitchen (built in) and take the heat and dump into the water heater and radiant system. I'm probably spending dollars to chase pennies, but the ME in me just geeks out anyway.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I agree with every single thing said here. I did mine because i could and i like diy complicated things. i'm going to lose when i sale my house someday though, because buyer #2 will be very very scared.

the obvious answer is to sell your home on GJ!

 

[yeldogt]

Natural gas got expensive in the early 00's ..... I remember buying propane under $1 in 06/07 ..... then it goes to $5 for some around 11 (I forget when it spiked)

NG has gone up recently -- But, in most of the country if you have NG nothing else is going to match it for making heat. I'm always thinking about it with Propane .. so many of my personal projects have been in areas w/o NG

 

[86turbodsl]

the obvious answer is to sell your home on GJ!

LOL! Probably true!!!

 

[PoorUB]

Yes, exactly those numbers. Here, NG per therm (@ 80% efficiency) is about double the price of resistance electric per therm (@ 100% efficiency), but heat pumps operate at around 500% efficiency, with geothermal topping that.

Seriously? I would like to know you cost per therm on NG and KWH for electricity. i have never heard of electric running less money that NG

 

[PoorUB]

Natural gas got expensive in the early 00's ..... I remember buying propane under $1 in 06/07 ..... then it goes to $5 for some around 11 (I forget when it spiked)

NG has gone up recently -- But, in most of the country if you have NG nothing else is going to match it for making heat. I'm always thinking about it with Propane .. so many of my personal projects have been in areas w/o NG

When NG spiked in price a few years ago it was still cheaper than resistance electric!

I worked in HVAC so I saw a lot of customers and the comments would fly. I loved it when customers with electric heat would comment on the NG prices and ask me what I was going to do as I heat with NG. "Nothing" I would tell them. It is still less money to heat with than electric. I think their heads would just sit and spin as they couldn't grasp it! Around here natural gas was roughly four times the price it is today. It was still half the price of resistance electric, and we got that lower price all the time!

 

[TriumphFan]

I would get natural gas just for the cooking. Cooking with propane *****.

 

[yeldogt]

I would get natural gas just for the cooking. Cooking with propane *****.

Never noticed a big difference ??

 

[yeldogt]

When NG spiked in price a few years ago it was still cheaper than resistance electric!

I worked in HVAC so I saw a lot of customers and the comments would fly. I loved it when customers with electric heat would comment on the NG prices and ask me what I was going to do as I heat with NG. "Nothing" I would tell them. It is still less money to heat with than electric. I think their heads would just sit and spin as they couldn't grasp it! Around here natural gas was roughly four times the price it is today. It was still half the price of resistance electric, and we got that lower price all the time!

This is why it never works for most people -- Geo. It's the same with solar with higher loads w/o ideal conditions. I'm for both technologies and would have gladly paid a premium for either within reason. A friend of mine built a great house on nice sized property and spend about 100k on the solar and geo fields ..... but, my guess it the house would use 1k in energy each month. So it was worth it

 

[86turbodsl]

I would get natural gas just for the cooking. Cooking with propane *****.

I just gotta know how they differ... do tell.

 

[rlitman]

I just gotta know how they differ... do tell.

Propane has a darker flame, more orange at the tips, more CO2 generated, and more CO risk. Propane also has a more compact flame that's better if you want a LOT of heat in a small space, whereas NG has a softer flame. In most cooking (aside from maybe a wok), the softness of NG helps spread the heat better across the bottom of a pan. But the difference is probably too small to detect in most cases.

 

[86turbodsl]

Ok, i've never noticed a difference. We cook with propane on cast iron. It gets plenty hot.

 

[TriumphFan]

I just gotta know how they differ... do tell.

The smell