NEMA 5-15R and 5-20R outlets

[engineer2]

We toured newly constructed homes in TN and AZ. Pulte and Del Webb.
Both homes had NEMA 5-15R style outlets for the kitchen counters.
I didn't look in the panel at the TN home.
The home in AZ had A & B circuits on 20 A breakers, yet the outlets looked like 5-15R.

My understanding is the outlets should be 5-20R to match the 20A breakers.

Question: Do they make 20A outlets that look like the 5-15R?

 

[Syberia]

You are allowed to have 5-15 outlets on 20 amp breakers. In fact this is pretty much standard practice as I've never actually seen an appliance that requires the sideways prong of the 5-20. Commercial or spec-grade 5-15 outlets will be more heavy-duty and are pretty much all I use.

 

[slow]

20 amp circuits in the kitchen are code, but 5-20R's are not commonly used, as anything that requires an 5-20R should likely be a dedicated circuit 5-15's are normally rated at 20 amp pass through but only 15 amp plug rating. You would not want to plug multiple appliances that used 5-20 plugs into a single circuit.

 

[engineer2]

Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[theoldwizard1]

One of my pet peeves !

Along with not using 240V receptacles that match breaker and wire.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

We toured newly constructed homes in TN and AZ. Pulte and Del Webb.
Both homes had NEMA 5-15R style outlets for the kitchen counters.
I didn't look in the panel at the TN home.
The home in AZ had A & B circuits on 20 A breakers, yet the outlets looked like 5-15R.

My understanding is the outlets should be 5-20R to match the 20A breakers.

Question: Do they make 20A outlets that look like the 5-15R?

Negative. code allows more than one 5-15 receptacle on a 20a circuit. A duplex 5-15r is 2 receptacles.

 

[Bert_]

I'll answer with another question. Do you have any appliances that have a 20A plug?

I can already tell you the answer is no. If you don't need the T slot why would you put in the 20A receptacle?

 

[engineer2]

Do you have any appliances that have a 20A plug?

Haven't seen one in in decades, usually on window AC units from the 70's or 80's.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I'll answer with another question. Do you have any appliances that have a 20A plug?

I can already tell you the answer is no. If you don't need the T slot why would you put in the 20A receptacle?

a lot of computer UPSes do - so they can pass the full power through and still have room for the battery charger.

 

[csp]

a lot of computer UPSes do - so they can pass the full power through and still have room for the battery charger.

Yes, but how many UPSes sit on a kitchen countertop?

I have a 120v welder with a 20a plug. Not using it in the kitchen.

 

[theoldwizard1]

a lot of computer UPSes do (use 5-20) - so they can pass the full power through and still have room for the battery charger.

That and some older server boxes. The only time I have ever seen it !

 

[DeeKay]

That and some older server boxes. The only time I have ever seen it !

The drum heaters at the brewery I used to work at had 5-20s no idea why though...... not that anyone uses a drum heater in their kitchen

 

[gtae07]

We have some microwaves in the break room at work with 20A plugs. And I've seen housekeeping staff in some places using vacuums with 20A plugs. But that's it...

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Yes, but how many UPSes sit on a kitchen countertop?

I have a 120v welder with a 20a plug. Not using it in the kitchen.

The Tom Dickson Extreme Blender has a 20A plug.

 

[Norcal]

We have some microwaves in the break room at work with 20A plugs. And I've seen housekeeping staff in some places using vacuums with 20A plugs. But that's it...

I think in the vacuums with 20A plugs is to keep them from plugging in to places where they should not be powering their vacuums. Have heard of that but then someone could try to “outsmart” them by twisting the prong to fit a 15A.

 

[rlitman]

Haven't seen one in in decades, usually on window AC units from the 70's or 80's.

I've seen it on a few larger window AC units, and on one very large copy machine. Other than that, none for me.

I've never personally seen NEMA 5-20 on any computer equipment, though I have seen stuff with L5-20 plugs (usually with an IEC C19 on the other end). Same for UPS equipment. I've seen UPS with L5-20 and L5-30, but can't say I've seen a 5-20 on one.

 

[alfredeneuman]

I think in the vacuums with 20A plugs is to keep them from plugging in to places where they should not be powering their vacuums. Have heard of that but then someone could try to “outsmart” them by twisting the prong to fit a 15A.

We had a chronic problem with a cleaning crew pulling the plugs sideways by the cord and ripping the face off of the outlets (even with the heaviest duty ones). We eventually solved it by replacing the dedicated cleaning outlets with twistlocks

 

[Bert_]

I think in the vacuums with 20A plugs is to keep them from plugging in to places where they should not be powering their vacuums. Have heard of that but then someone could try to “outsmart” them by twisting the prong to fit a 15A.

Whenever I get a new pvc hot box that's the first thing I do! Grab a pliers and twist the prong so it fits a 15A plug.

 

[slow]

I think in the vacuums with 20A plugs is to keep them from plugging in to places where they should not be powering their vacuums. Have heard of that but then someone could try to “outsmart” them by twisting the prong to fit a 15A.

I was told the same thing, talked to some janitors of a commercial office building, and guess what the prong was bent to fit in a 5-15.

 

[nadogail]

Janitors are resourceful.

 

[13mo]

I'll answer with another question. Do you have any appliances that have a 20A plug?

I do not have anything that uses a 5-20 plug and have only seen a handful of things that have ever used it. Larger room air conditioners in particular used them in the past. I have seen some commercial treadmills, coffee dispensers, server power supply cords, and toasters use 5-20 plugs. But other than the treadmills, most of that kind of equipment often is available in 240 volt versions and it's more common to see it on a 6-15 or 6-20 plug rather than a 5-20, particularly the big room air conditioners and computer equipment.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

The only things I've seen that had a 5-20P on the cord were commercial microwaves and a welder.

5-15R are rated for 20 amps so why spend more on 5-20R's when they aren't needed. Just buy quality 5-15R not the cheap $0.68 receptacles.

 

[STANG302]

Just wrapped up wiring my new garage. Struggled with adding dedicated 20A w/5-20R's. What would I ever plug into them???

But said screw it might as well while I'm at it. So added two, one in each back corner of the garage. Will I ever use them for there dedicated purpose, most likely not. But at least their there if I ever do.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

I was told the same thing, talked to some janitors of a commercial office building, and guess what the prong was bent to fit in a 5-15.

Did they also pull the ground prong off while they were at it?

 

[Norcal]

If it needs a 20A plug then it also requires a dedicated circuit IMHO.

 

[yeldogt]

If it needs a 20A plug then it also requires a dedicated circuit IMHO.

That does seem to be the case ..... the last I ran into this w/ residence was a microwave 25 years ago

 

[SlappyWhite]

Is split duplex 15 amp permitted under US code for kitchens?

 

[exranger06]

Is split duplex 15 amp permitted under US code for kitchens?

You can use 15 amp receptacles, but they must be on 20 amp circuits.

 

[billconner]

Did I miss it but doesn't NEC require a 20 amp receptacle if only receptacle on circuit? Twice redoing kitchen I did dedicated circuits for fridge and dishwasher, and maybe microwave, and ran into this, even though those appliance loads were under 15 amps. I admit my preference for dedicated circuits is overkill but I like the convenience of one appliance one breaker. And iirc, a single receptacle on a circuit for a single appliance does not require arc fault protection? Or is that only over 20 amps? I don't do it enough that it's all in memory, but I do keep a copy of NEC out for those times (and a one page cheat sheet for box fill.)

 

[SlappyWhite]

You can use 15 amp receptacles, but they must be on 20 amp circuits.

I was just wondering, here we can have a split duplex where two 15 amp circuits (opposite sides of the panel, ganged breaker) feed a single (split) duplex kitchen receptacle. Three wire feed two hots and a neutral.

It was the way all kitchens (here) were done for a long time until GFCI then the 20 amp became popular (as it did not require a crazy expensive breaker).

 

[exranger06]

I was just wondering, here we can have a split duplex where two 15 amp circuits (opposite sides of the panel, ganged breaker) feed a single (split) duplex kitchen receptacle. Three wire feed two hots and a neutral.

It was the way all kitchens (here) were done for a long time until GFCI then the 20 amp became popular (as it did not require a crazy expensive breaker).

Code requires all small appliance branch circuits (SABC) to be 20 amps. I suppose you could still split the receptacles and use a double pole breaker, as long as you have more than one duplex receptacle on each leg of the circuit. You would need to put the GFCI protection at the breaker. Kitchens also now require AFCI protection too, so you'd need a double pole 20A breaker that has AFCI AND GFCI protection, which may not exist. I have an Eaton CH panel, and I know that such a breaker does not exist for my panel, at least not yet.

 

[exranger06]

Did I miss it but doesn't NEC require a 20 amp receptacle if only receptacle on circuit? Twice redoing kitchen I did dedicated circuits for fridge and dishwasher, and maybe microwave, and ran into this, even though those appliance loads were under 15 amps. I admit my preference for dedicated circuits is overkill but I like the convenience of one appliance one breaker. And iirc, a single receptacle on a circuit for a single appliance does not require arc fault protection? Or is that only over 20 amps? I don't do it enough that it's all in memory, but I do keep a copy of NEC out for those times (and a one page cheat sheet for box fill.)

Correct, NEC requires a 20A receptacle if there is only one receptacle on a 20A circuit. However, a duplex receptacle technically counts as two receptacles, so you can put one 15A duplex receptacle on a 20A circuit. If you had a single receptacle like this:
Then it has to be a 20A receptacle. Dedicated circuits for the fridge and dishwasher do NOT count as SABCs, and are permitted to be 15A circuits. A dedicated circuit for a built-in microwave is also not an SABC, but it is required to be 20A. EVERY 120V 15A and 20A circuit in a kitchen requires AFCI protection, whether the circuit is for one receptacle, multiple receptacles, or NO receptacles (lighting or hardwired appliances).

 

[billconner]

Thanks. AFCI was not required when I did my third kitchen in early 20teens where I lived but was when I did 4th - and hopefully last - last year. Friendly inspector in rural community, I could call or text if I had a question - which were all regarding new to me AFCI.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Receptacles not matching the wire and breaker size are kind of a pet peeves of mine. If it is a 20A breaker and 12 AWG wire, it should be a 5-20R.

Doubly the same on 240V circuits. I understand why they put a 6-50P on all welders (because most welding shops have 6-50R receptacles already installed) but I don't think you should put a 6-50R on a 20A or 30A circuit.

 

[Bert_]

Receptacles not matching the wire and breaker size are kind of a pet peeves of mine. If it is a 20A breaker and 12 AWG wire, it should be a 5-20R.

Why do you think that? Do you have things that have a 20A plug?

The internals are all the same on similar quality outlets. You just as well tuck a dollar bill in each box before you put in the receptacle. It will do as much good.

 

[Meursault74]

Why do you think that? Do you have things that have a 20A plug?

The internals are all the same on similar quality outlets. You just as well tuck a dollar bill in each box before you put in the receptacle. It will do as much good.

I don't have anything with a 20 A plug. I installed some GFCI in our laundry room and garage. They are each on 20A circuits, but had normal 15A receptacles at the time. I didn't know any better so I got the 20A GFCI. In the end it didn't cost me more money as there was a glitch on the purchase and Home Depot somehow didn't charge my credit card for the in store purchase.

 

[sparky 1971]

Receptacles not matching the wire and breaker size are kind of a pet peeves of mine. If it is a 20A breaker and 12 AWG wire, it should be a 5-20R.

Doubly the same on 240V circuits. I understand why they put a 6-50P on all welders (because most welding shops have 6-50R receptacles already installed) but I don't think you should put a 6-50R on a 20A or 30A circuit.

Why? How many 20 amp cords do you have? How many have you seen? I've seen two that I can think of. One was a 120 volt Hotzi pressure washer, the other was a big table saw. I think, and most people agree, that 6-20's are ugly and look out of place. As far as the 6-50R, what non welder have you seen with a 6-50? I've seen four things and they were all convenience store pizza ovens.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I don't have anything with a 20 A plug. I installed some GFCI in our laundry room and garage. They are each on 20A circuits, but had normal 15A receptacles at the time. I didn't know any better so I got the 20A GFCI. In the end it didn't cost me more money as there was a glitch on the purchase and Home Depot somehow didn't charge my credit card for the in store purchase.

The 20a GFCIs do cost more money though

 

[Meursault74]

The 20a GFCIs do cost more money though

I know they do in general. Come to think of it, I now remember replacing a GFCI that had gone bad for an outdoor location in our back yard. I was in no hurry and replaced it with a 20A one as well. It's on a 20A circuit so it's ok. Actually at the time on Ebay there was a vendor with a bunch of Leviton 20A GFCI that he was selling for much less than the going rate for 15A so that's where I purchased it. It's was/is genuine.

I don't know if the build quality is "better" or not on a 20A, but if it's a 20A circuit and you don't mind the "look" of the outlet and can get the 20A for the same price or less than an equivalent 15A, would there be a reason not to install one?

 

[Norcal]

I know they do in general. Come to think of it, I now remember replacing a GFCI that had gone bad for an outdoor location in our back yard. I was in no hurry and replaced it with a 20A one as well. It's on a 20A circuit so it's ok. Actually at the time on Ebay there was a vendor with a bunch of Leviton 20A GFCI that he was selling for much less than the going rate for 15A so that's where I purchased it. It's was/is genuine.

I don't know if the build quality is "better" or not on a 20A, but if it's a 20A circuit and you don't mind the "look" of the outlet and can get the 20A for the same price or less than an equivalent 15A, would there be a reason not to install one?

Unless your paying more for 20A, it does not matter, some just want 20A for no other reasons to waste money & so they can pleasure themselves. If it's less, saving money is a good thing, I used 20A in my shop because I had them, in 28 years not once has the 20A configuration been needed, 10 years ago when the back room was reconstructed, rebuilt is a more accurate word, 15A receptacles were used with all 20A circuits in both cases