Back wire outlet: Spec grade / comercial grade?

[yeldogt]

What is the difference between commercial and spec grade electrical?

Need to order TR outlets for my current project (New House) --- want quality outlets that can be back wired using the screw. These tend to be high enough quality for my liking.

Normally I just use all white ..... but I'm doing a lot of color in this house. I'm going to be needing black or brown as all my outlets are in the baseboards and much of the base is dark. Most likely they will be decora ..... I'm not sure I have to get Lutron for color match to the plates. Trying to understand the different types is driving me nuts.

Tend to like the P&S stuff ...

The better 1/2 thinks the old style (non-decora) look better as it's an old historic house. I don't care at this point ... but, all the switches are white decora.

 

[Terry D]

Really no need for back wired devices if using solid wire

 

[Jim greengo]

Back wiring outlets is highly frowned upon here in omaha area anyway,everything needs to be tailed out around here anyway.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Back wiring outlets is highly frowned upon here in omaha area anyway,everything needs to be tailed out around here anyway.

Are you thinking of "Quickwire" stab in outlets without the side screws?
Back wire outlets have screws and a plate clamps the wire.
Why does everything need to be pigtailed? Is it some local Code?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Back wiring outlets is highly frowned upon here in omaha area anyway,everything needs to be tailed out around here anyway.

Are you confusing push-wire aka “back-stab” wired outlets with back-wired, which is far superior?

 

[Jim greengo]

Around here they want to see everything tailed out on the rough in inspection atleast since early 90s that I can remember.

 

[Jim greengo]

Are you thinking of "Quickwire" stab in outlets without the side screws?
Back wire outlets have screws and a plate clamps the wire.
Why does everything need to be pigtailed? Is it some local Code?

Been that way on rough in inspections since atleast early 90s.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Around here they want to see everything tailed out on the rough in inspection atleast since early 90s that I can remember.

The City of Omaha's current adopted Code is the 2017NEC. Any changes are administrative.
You live in Omaha, right?

 

[Jim greengo]

Walk through any residential or commercial job site in omaha waiting on a rough in inspection,wires are tailed out.
Bellevue and other towns around omaha are hit and miss depending on inspectors and who's doing the work.
Omaha is it's own little world when it comes to electrical and plumbing work,local 22 has a lot of say on the electrical board .
And local 16 does the same with the plumbing board.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Sounds like corruption and conflict of interest to me

 

[BillK]

Just curious what you guys mean by "tailed out" ??

 

[dscheidt]

What is the difference between commercial and spec grade electrical?

Spec grade is a thing, there's a US GSA standard on how the outlet is required to perform (minium holding force, number of cycles, etc). "Commercial", "Industrial", "Heavy Duty", etc are marketing department language. It usually means something within a line, but it doesn't mean anything inherently. Unless you're a tract builder, or a cheap-*** farmer, spring for spec grade devices, they're decidedly better quality and more durable than contractor grade ****.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Just curious what you guys mean by "tailed out" ??

Pig tailing is joining 2 or more wires with wire nuts etc. and running jumper wires to connect the devices.

 

[loganb]

Pig tailing is joining 2 or more wires with wire nuts etc. and running jumper wires to connect the devices.

The alternative method is wiring the "line" side bringing voltage in on one side of the outlet and then connecting the wire feeding the next device "load side" on the other side. It's cheaper and some feel faster but the downside side is that when the device fails to the "open" condition everything downstream dies as the circuit was interrupted. If you pigtail it and a device dies nothing else on the circuit should be impacted

 

[BillK]

Pig tailing is joining 2 or more wires with wire nuts etc. and running jumper wires to connect the devices.

I understand what pigtailing is but are they saying that each device has to be pigtailed out in the box for rough inspection ? Or that they have to be installed that way instead of the traditional method that loganb described ??

Either way I dont see what it has to do with the use of backwired devices ?

 

[yeldogt]

Spec grade is a thing, there's a US GSA standard on how the outlet is required to perform (minium holding force, number of cycles, etc). "Commercial", "Industrial", "Heavy Duty", etc are marketing department language. It usually means something within a line, but it doesn't mean anything inherently. Unless you're a tract builder, or a cheap-*** farmer, spring for spec grade devices, they're decidedly better quality and more durable than contractor grade ****.

There seems to be a lot of "marketing" going around ... Many of the Spec are 20amp outlets and I don't want them

All the rough is in and all pigtailed --- I'm not talking about "stab" backwire as many have posted. Most times when the device has the capability to be backwired with the screw --- it's a decent product.

IMO -- back wire with screw on the pigtail is a nice way to wire up ...... This house has complex fixtures and I'm responsible to get all the devices ...... never thought it was going to be annoying to order outlets

 

[cmandp]

So yeldogt it sounds like really you just want a high quality tamper resistant decora type outlet for this house correct? And you want whatever model you end up deciding on to be available in colors to match the room they are going in?

If you like P&S just go to their website and find what you want and see where you can get those from.

I started using spec grade outlets and really do like the back wire feature where the screw and plate clamp the wire. It makes install a bit quicker too since you don't have to loop the wire and try and get it under the screw.

 

[cybrdyke]

Spec grade devices have a higher plug insertion and retention strength. Usually, this is too high for the satisfaction of common household users. Mrs. Homeowner doesn't want to use so much strength to plug and un-plug the vacuum cleaner or the toaster oven.

 

[yeldogt]

So yeldogt it sounds like really you just want a high quality tamper resistant decora type outlet for this house correct? And you want whatever model you end up deciding on to be available in colors to match the room they are going in?

If you like P&S just go to their website and find what you want and see where you can get those from.

I started using spec grade outlets and really do like the back wire feature where the screw and plate clamp the wire. It makes install a bit quicker too since you don't have to loop the wire and try and get it under the screw.

Here is the thing .... I don't really need the Spec and I have noticed what cybrdyke posted above -- some really grab the plug.

My local supply house closed --- if they were still around I would just go over and buy a few different colors. The back wire w/ the screw clamp is the best IMO

 

[Terry D]

I have been putting the 3232TRW P&S duplex receptacles in for years in residential applications. They are a excellent residential grade device. You can put a commercial grade device in a house, but really don't need it. For solid wire, the back wired is no better than wrapping it around a screw on a non back wire type. Stranded wire is a different story Back wired with pressure plates is the way to go.

 

[Bruce 993 SEA]

I have always used the back wire with screws that the OP is talking about. You can order from Westside Wholesale or some other favorite supply house easier and a lot cheaper than the big box stores. The cheap back stab outlets are loss leaders but the decent outlets are expensive from he BBS.

Why does everything need to be pigtailed? Is it some local Code?

I don't get this code...they want to rely on wire nuts vs. square drive screws for the junction. Not me. Losing the downstream part of the circuit could be an issue but if the copper connection fails on the side of the outlet, it is going to be apparent as to which device is the culprit.

 

[adrenalinejeeper]

We used Hubbell "Commercial Specification Grade Style Line Decorator Duplex Receptacles", model DR20WHITR. The Hubbells had a much smoother operating TR mechanism and the back wire made wiring them up quick and easy. They cost a little more, but the quality can be felt. They have a good choice of colors too in both 15 and 20 amp.

For what it's worth, we had an old school retired electrician help us wire the house and everything was pigtailed. While code might not call for it, it does make me a little more comfortable knowing everything "downstream" isn't going through the plates on the receptacles. HOWEVER, done right and with quality receptacles there should be no problem with the traditional method.

 

[Terry D]

I have always used the back wire with screws that the OP is talking about. You can order from Westside Wholesale or some other favorite supply house easier and a lot cheaper than the big box stores. The cheap back stab outlets are loss leaders but the decent outlets are expensive from he BBS.


I don't get this code...they want to rely on wire nuts vs. square drive screws for the junction. Not me. Losing the downstream part of the circuit could be an issue but if the copper connection fails on the side of the outlet, it is going to be apparent as to which device is the culprit.

If a splice using wire nuts is made up correctly, it will never fail. And I mean made up correctly by using the proper size wire nut and not by exceeding the number of conductors in it. Although not a code requirement per the NEC, but as it has already been stated, local jurisdictions can override the NEC and require it, pig tailing and having only one set of wires on a receptacle is the preferred way.

 

[SlappyWhite]

The idea in code for pigtails is as others stated removing an outlet does not disconnect downstream outlets. Some codes enforce the neutral must be pigtailed but the hot can use the two connections on the outlet, sort of splitting the difference (and a trick to reduce the overall wireload in the box). The logic is removing the outlet/receptacle will disconnect the hot from downstream but not the neutral. It avoids the largest danger of the neutral being disconnected but the hot is still live downstream. Code is of course sometimes based on protecting the stupid....

Of course this does not apply to arc and ground fault outlets protecting the downstream....

 

[sparky 1971]

I don't get this code...they want to rely on wire nuts vs. square drive screws for the junction. Not me. Losing the downstream part of the circuit could be an issue but if the copper connection fails on the side of the outlet, it is going to be apparent as to which device is the culprit.

It's not the screws. It's the phony little tab jumping the two terminals together that has to carry the full load of everything downstream from it. I just had a service call today at an old apartment complex. It was in the laundry room and had two duplex receptacles on the same circuit. Some dufus installed the first receptacle in the laundry and fed through instead of pigtailing it and the neutral side failed. Oh yeah, it was a mwbc and 240 went through both washing machines and one gas dryer, ruining at least the electronic display on all three. I didn't check anything beyond that as I didn't have any change to put in and honestly didn't care, it's the Maytag man's problem now. The only thing that saved the second dryer was the fact that the "line" neutral was still intact on the receptacle.

 

[Bert_]

It's not the screws. It's the phony little tab jumping the two terminals together that has to carry the full load of everything downstream from it. I just had a service call today at an old apartment complex. It was in the laundry room and had two duplex receptacles on the same circuit. Some dufus installed the first receptacle in the laundry and fed through instead of pigtailing it and the neutral side failed. Oh yeah, it was a mwbc and 240 went through both washing machines and one gas dryer, ruining at least the electronic display on all three. I didn't check anything beyond that as I didn't have any change to put in and honestly didn't care, it's the Maytag man's problem now. The only thing that saved the second dryer was the fact that the "line" neutral was still intact on the receptacle.

With a multiwire it's actually a code requirement to pigtail, for the neutral at least.

 

[sparky 1971]

With a multiwire it's actually a code requirement to pigtail, for the neutral at least.

Whoops, I left out the code requirement part. It's pigtailed now, and I always do it anyway. This place predates me, it has Bulldog Pushmatic panels in it. The receptacle had been changed at least once since it had phillips head 6/32 screws. Whether the tail had been taken out or never installed will forever be a mystery.

 

[Syberia]

I am personally fond of the Eaton spec-grade outlets from Lowe's. That's all I used when rewiring my garage last winter. The pressure-plate design is much better than the Leviton ones sold at Home Depot, and it allows me to make four connections in the back of the device instead of two. The only way I have ever seen an outlet fail is for the prongs to become loose, which would not affect anything downstream.

 

[nadogail]

Do not let yourself get fooled into buying "back stabber" receptacles.

Pig tailing a receptacle allows the other parallel connected receptacles to work if a "Daisy Chain" wired outlet fails.