SK Tools Manufacturing Might Be Staying in the USA

[Mr_B]

Quite a big facility and cost if all done in house ...

 

[JradM]

You couldn't fugure out I meant keep making and American product with American materials as the keep doing what they're doing.

The how you can debate for seven weeks but make no mistake if they go Asian made they're done.

Yes, I presumed that's exactly what you meant. My apologies if my abbreviated quote oversimplified your point. I don't like long quotes because it makes the thread needlessly long, but I wanted to make it clear what I was responding to.

I was disagreeing though. I.e. I doubt sticking with a 100% USA catalog will turn things around for SK. USA production is what SK is already known for and, while laudable, outrageous success hasn't followed.

Because I want SK to continue making high quality USA tools, I hope that part of the business continues but the catalogue expands so SK can be profitable. If that means adding (high quality) import products too, so be it.

The rationale for the expansion is that SK needs to do more volume and offer a more complete product line because the price is currently pretty high for what you get. That doesn't mean SK should become Craftsman. SK should remain a premium brand IMO.

My dream was basically to make SK like a retail-friendly version of Proto.

 

[reader2580]

In the day of CNC machining won't matter.
They'll run some ads for machinists, packers, warehouse people, material handlers....hire...
Start making product.

In today's hiring environment where are they going to find all these workers? Just about every manufacturer is looking for these same workers to hire.

 

[P Miller]

I say, let's be hopeful! I hate to see manufacturing go away in this country, especially SK tools. As for moving machinery, industry does it all the time. I've seen it in my over 30 years as an industrial electrician. I don't think many people worked at the Illinois factory that Ideal built. There are YouTube videos of people who took tours, it didn't look like you would think.

 

[VolvoRyan]

Refreshing to see the way this discussion is working on GJ.... the folks in the SK Facebook groups are all wackos who believe this magic thing called "American steel" grows out of the ground in I-beams.

Yup. SK is speaking leagalese. We'll have to wait and see. I've got at least $10K "invested" (or so I thought!) in SK in the last few years.... so I'm trying to stay hopeful that the product quality stays up there.

Ultimately, one has to wonder if SK's "niche" exists anymore. Even if SK had done any marketing in the last few years, it's unclear how much interest there is in the "middle of the road" tools SK produced for "middle of the road" prices. The SK tools that I've bought are definitely nicer than GearWrench and Tekton.... but are they 3x as nice considering the price?

Since I've moved deeper into the mid-west, it's fun to see all the pick-up trucks with their angry bumper stickers in the Harbor Freight parking lot.

-Ryan

 

[bonneyman]

Exactly. They will produce "product categories", including I'm sure, SK vacuums.

Yeah, under the SucK vac division.

 

[RickyPetite]

SK's business strategy has always puzzled me. I suspect that most of the reason that SO costs so much is that they factor in replacement costs. Since they sell to professionals who use the tools constantly, they know that the first purchase has to pay not only for the first wrench but for the replacement as well. SK has never marketed sufficiently to professionals. I would imagine that they sell as much (if not more) to patriotic DIY'ers as they do to shop mechanics. As such, replacement costs should be drastically less. So, either SK sells to pro's at a SO price or to DIY'ers at a much-lowered cost. They picked neither...they kept the SO price but sold to guys like me.

 

[plinker]

SK's business strategy has always puzzled me. I suspect that most of the reason that SO costs so much is that they factor in replacement costs. Since they sell to professionals who use the tools constantly, they know that the first purchase has to pay not only for the first wrench but for the replacement as well. SK has never marketed sufficiently to professionals. I would imagine that they sell as much (if not more) to patriotic DIY'ers as they do to shop mechanics. As such, replacement costs should be drastically less. So, either SK sells to pro's at a SO price or to DIY'ers at a much-lowered cost. They picked neither...they kept the SO price but sold to guys like me.

S-K was probably better marketed back 30 years ago in places like auto parts stores and such. The interwebz changed a lot (understatement). Snap-on definatly is factoring several costs into their product including warranty and sales/marketing method. If they werent, you'd be paying Williams USA prices.

One of the problems S-K (and Craftsman for that matter) have is they compete against themselves, they arent expensive like Snap-on stuff usually is in the secondary market, so the pawn shop or ebay seller charges 1-2$ per socket for C-man & S-K, instead of say 10$ for a Snap-on. Then a whole bunch get warrantied so you get a new one, and pretty soon no one is buying the brand new stuff and it goes offshore, out of business, ete... There is more to it then just this but it is a problem, and there are usually more issues at play.

It is about to the point where "made in USA" is going to have to command a premium in order to stay made here. The consumer will play some part in that, but corporate will also play a large part. (Apex going offshore & Snap-on's short lived idea to not stamp ratchets USA a few years ago are examples)

 

[lardy1]

Since I've moved deeper into the mid-west, it's fun to see all the pick-up trucks with their angry bumper stickers in the Harbor Freight parking lot.

-Ryan-

 

[bob15]

The letter states that will continue to manufacture product categories in the USA. This doesn't mean they will continue to have the same made in the USA selection as today. For me, there would be zero reason to buy anything from SK if it isn't made in the USA.

It seems crazy to abandon a manufacturing facility that is a dozen years old or so. Equipment to make hand tools is big and heavy. It costs a lot of money to hire rigging companies to move that equipment, or it costs even more money to buy new equipment. A move also means their tools could be out of production for months unless the move is carefully staged.

I wonder how they are going to hire all new employees in today's hiring environment? I doubt many of the manufacturing workers will move with the company.

I watched my former employer close about a million square feet (2 buildings and close to 3k people) of precision metal machining (critical tolerances to a millionth of an inch) and 2 heat treat facilities and move it to NC, china and india so it isn't really that heard to move. As for the personell maybe a dozen people went with the equipment.

 

[M635_Guy]

That doesn't make sense. If doing the same thing they do right now was working, I expect they wouldn't be in this pickle.

I expect for things to turn around, SK needs a new market (Lowes?) or new product (add imports to expand the catalogue). Or both. We tool fans might like SK for their USA/USA focus, but that obviously isn't translating into skyrocketing success.

What makes me hopeful that it's not just a brand name to be slapped on cheap Chinese tools is also based on what SK is - I.e I don't know that there's a whole lot making SK special if you take away the premium and USA focus. It's not Craftsman. Craftsman is so well renowned that the brand has is own cachet regardless of where its made. I don't think most people know SK at all.

That's a pretty simplistic way to think about it.

I'll give you an example. I joined the SK Club and have been doing the Socket of the Month thing. I choose the free shipping. Every order has come in a fairly big box (I'm going to guess 8"x8"x8") with the socket in a small zip-lock plastic bag. The cost of the shipping almost certainly exceeds the cost of the socket. The cost of the box might too.

I've been ordering two sockets (one free, one reg. price) just so it's half as wasteful.

I'd be quite happy if they were throwing them in small padded envelopes and shipping slow USPS. I have to think somebody is going to look for things like that to reduce costs, and it will be the best kind of thing where they can do that. I have to think, based on my impressions of the way they operate, that there will be lots of other process efficiencies that can be found that are just pure benefit.

I ordered my August free socket yesterday (and an extra guilt-socket) and already had a shipment notification before I went to bed last night. That's a record... (though we'll see how long it takes to actually get out of there...)

 

[M635_Guy]

I suspect that most of the reason that SO costs so much is that they factor in replacement costs.

Most of the reason SO costs so much is to give the truck guys the ability to pay for their trucks, their house, their cars, etc.

 

[reader2580]

That's a pretty simplistic way to think about it.

I'll give you an example. I joined the SK Club and have been doing the Socket of the Month thing. I choose the free shipping. Every order has come in a fairly big box (I'm going to guess 8"x8"x8") with the socket in a small zip-lock plastic bag. The cost of the shipping almost certainly exceeds the cost of the socket. The cost of the box might too.

Verizon Wireless used to do the same when shipping out phones. They not only used a similar sized box to SK, but they didn't even put multiple phones in a box. If you ordered two phones they shipped in two boxes no matter if both would fit in one box. My employer ordered 40 phones once and asked to have them bulk packed. They still came in 40 boxes that took a while to open and break down.

Verizon has a much higher margin than SK most likely plus they ship much larger volumes than SK to get lower prices, but still.

 

[dstblj52]

Verizon Wireless used to do the same when shipping out phones. They not only used a similar sized box to SK, but they didn't even put multiple phones in a box. If you ordered two phones they shipped in two boxes no matter if both would fit in one box. My employer ordered 40 phones once and asked to have them bulk packed. They still came in 40 boxes that took a while to open and break down.

Verizon has a much higher margin than SK most likely plus they ship much larger volumes than SK to get lower prices, but still.

Verizon phone shipment is a FedEx operation I believe they probably don't keep all thst many box types on hand especially cause cargo jets tend to hit maximum take off weight before they hit maximum capacity

 

[cib]

SK's business strategy has always puzzled me. I suspect that most of the reason that SO costs so much is that they factor in replacement costs. Since they sell to professionals who use the tools constantly, they know that the first purchase has to pay not only for the first wrench but for the replacement as well. SK has never marketed sufficiently to professionals. I would imagine that they sell as much (if not more) to patriotic DIY'ers as they do to shop mechanics. As such, replacement costs should be drastically less. So, either SK sells to pro's at a SO price or to DIY'ers at a much-lowered cost. They picked neither...they kept the SO price but sold to guys like me.

They should take a strong look at how HF is marketing its icon brand. The lower interest rates for starting out mechanics and DIY people as well. Get into the trade schools and promote in that area. People tend to be very brand loyal at the pro level and you've got to get them early.

Also their product lineup needs to expand as well. I will say they started doing well with that and introducing new competitive products such as the LP90 ratchet which is my fav now over SO, Mac and Matco ratchets I have.

 

[Skin]

Most of the reason SO costs so much is to give the truck guys the ability to pay for their trucks, their house, their cars, etc.

Or not, considering Snap-on takes most of the sale price. Mark-up is only 20-30% for most (non-promo) items. They also make sure to be the primary lender for any loans needed which is where most of their money comes from. Whether you succeed or fail (most fail) they always win.

 

[Bubba Fett]

#1 I haven't seen any of the fine print in that sale contract. Have you?

#2 glass half full brotha....

It's a ****** way to live always doubtfully worried and or participating gloom and doom.

The phrase "a manufacturing presence" means SOME items will be made in USA, but not all. It's what they AREN'T saying that matters here. I'm a realist. I lower my expectations. That way, I won't be disappointed. If I'm wrong then I'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[lardy1]

Considering that one of SK's greatest attractions is the domestic production I would fully expect any new owner to try to exploit that positive. But I keep my expectations low. It IS a Chinese owned company now. Just about everything is opinion and speculation at this point. My base lineup of tools is already in my tool box. SK has a huge presence. Regardless what happens I will still like my SK tools. That's why I bought them.

 

[dstblj52]

Considering that one of SK's greatest attractions is the domestic production I would fully expect any new owner to try to exploit that positive. But I keep my expectations low. It IS a Chinese owned company now. Just about everything is opinion and speculation at this point. My base lineup of tools is already in my tool box. SK has a huge presence. Regardless what happens I will still like my SK tools. That's why I bought them.

SK doesn't really have a value to offer currently their pricing isn't great and their reliability on delivering a truly working product isn't that good either, nor is their customer service, so all you have less is expensive tools that don't really match their competition when not on deep discount

 

[M635_Guy]

Or not, considering Snap-on takes most of the sale price. Mark-up is only 20-30% for most (non-promo) items. They also make sure to be the primary lender for any loans needed which is where most of their money comes from. Whether you succeed or fail (most fail) they always win.

I agree that SnapOn makes the money coming and going (financing, etc.), but what's the source of your information on the cost from SnapOn to the truck guys?

The phrase "a manufacturing presence" means SOME items will be made in USA, but not all. It's what they AREN'T saying that matters here. I'm a realist. I lower my expectations. That way, I won't be disappointed. If I'm wrong then I'll be pleasantly surprised.

It's just as likely (and IMHO, far more likely) that phrasing is just ensuring they have flexibility in the future and can't be accused of lying/misleading people/etc. I doubt they have concrete plans at this point, though you could look at Snap On and how many tools they have these days that aren't MiUSA and guess where things might go. Or maybe they'll double down. For me, I'm happy to wait and see and not scream at shadows.

 

[reader2580]

I was at Harry Epstein at May and needed a few sockets to replace some missing Craftsman sockets. I wanted SK mostly because I thought they would be least expensive. Steve actually said that SK is more expensive than Wright. He sold me Wright sockets instead. I always Wright was more expensive than SK.

 

[Indexmill]

I watched my former employer close about a million square feet (2 buildings and close to 3k people) of precision metal machining (critical tolerances to a millionth of an inch) and 2 heat treat facilities and move it to NC, china and india so it isn't really that heard to move. As for the personell maybe a dozen people went with the equipment.

What was your former company; and where in NC?

 

[scooby074]

Vacuums and forging handtools dont have much manufacturing in common. Plus the old shop vac site is not that big.
I think the key here regarding us manufacture is that their closing the basically new, custom designed, Illinois plant.

"Some US manufacturing" will likely mean assembly of china forged components with a healthy "Assembled in USA with global components" disclaimer.

I suspect this is the same thing that will happen to Shop vac. IIRC all the shop vac moulding presses and motor winding machines were put up for auction?

Im afraid this is the sad end for SK.

 

[sparky 1971]

Nobody this side of China really knows what's going to happen with SK. What I do know is that Ideal didn't do the SK brand any justice, with the exception of a few new products. The closest place I could actually walk in and buy a SK tool is Harry Epsteins and that's a 1-1/2 hour drive. I never did it, but I did order online. I can remember SK being the tool line at automotive and hardware stores 30+ years ago, that's why it was so popular then and there are so many used SK tools out there now. I don't like the Chicomms owning it, but this is the year 2021, and it's happening with more than tools. It is possible that Greatstar will keep the manufacturing here, increase the product line, and get the tools into stores where more people can actually touch the tools before buying. Even if manufacturing moves over seas I won't quit buying, but if the quality drops significantly, I am out.

 

[Xcursion88]

Yes, I presumed that's exactly what you meant. My apologies if my abbreviated quote oversimplified your point. I don't like long quotes because it makes the thread needlessly long, but I wanted to make it clear what I was responding to.

I was disagreeing though. I.e. I doubt sticking with a 100% USA catalog will turn things around for SK. USA production is what SK is already known for and, while laudable, outrageous success hasn't followed.

Because I want SK to continue making high quality USA tools, I hope that part of the business continues but the catalogue expands so SK can be profitable. If that means adding (high quality) import products too, so be it.

The rationale for the expansion is that SK needs to do more volume and offer a more complete product line because the price is currently pretty high for what you get. That doesn't mean SK should become Craftsman. SK should remain a premium brand IMO.

My dream was basically to make SK like a retail-friendly version of Proto.

First of all it depends on the expectations.
If they're kept within reason there is no reason SK can't be profitable...selling what they do.

That said if they're employing an amount of people trying to be king of the tool hill....that's q problem.

It's perfectly satisfactory not being number 1 at something but again the expectations must be kept in check.

Nobody here knows their roster size, payroll, projected blue sky and yearly sales...

I'll keep being a customer until I don't see USA anymore.

 

[JatoTheRipper]

Riiight!

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[M635_Guy]

Vacuums and forging handtools dont have much manufacturing in common. Plus the old shop vac site is not that big.
I think the key here regarding us manufacture is that their closing the basically new, custom designed, Illinois plant.

"Some US manufacturing" will likely mean assembly of china forged components with a healthy "Assembled in USA with global components" disclaimer.

I suspect this is the same thing that will happen to Shop vac. IIRC all the shop vac moulding presses and motor winding machines were put up for auction?

Im afraid this is the sad end for SK.

That's a genuine pile of supposition and wild guessing.

 

[Davefr]

It is possible that Greatstar will keep the manufacturing here, increase the product line, and get the tools into stores where more people can actually touch the tools before buying.

It'll never happen. B&M stores don't want precious shelf space allocated to premium priced/slow moving SKU's that 99% of the buying public won't buy. The typical US consumer has a love affair with cheap tools from China and that's what B&M delivers. The few B&M stores left that sell tools are all in bed with their favorite/well recognized brands that they've already spent a bundle promoting.

SK's only hope is a strong online presence to pros and enthusiasts. I've always thought some pro grade tool company should offer free overnight shipping. That could take a bite out of tool trucks. The other issue is that SK's offering is pretty weak. SO has an extensive "one stop shopping lineup" for the pros. CM has an extensive product offering for the DIY/homeowners. SK is hardline tools only with a weak channel. I don't see a scenario where GS would invest to billions to re-invent SK.

 

[Badgerstate]

Hey guys, I was alerted to a post on the SK Tool Fans and Collectors group on Facebook that may be of interest to some of you. Apparently, if this image is correct, SK may be leaving Illinois and moving to Williamsport, PA (I assume to link up with Shop Vac's facilities there, since they are now both owned by Great Star). If so, I believe that this would be a good thing. SK's biggest selling point is American made products with American steel and I'm sure that Ideal wants to keep its new SK Tools factory for its own purposes.

***All of this is based on a post in a Facebook group so take it with a grain of salt. But it does look to be a message from the official SK Tools Facebook.*** The caption is below.

Id question if that just means that the sockets will be put in the box in the U.S. and thats about it.

 

[bob15]

So SK was sold and they are moving to a different state and yet all I hear is negative this and negative that. Nothing but doom and gloom.

Folks, SK is still a "made in USA" tool, made by Americans, with American tooling and steel. That is better than what Gearwrench (KD Tools) & Milwaukee Electric can say, and yet, all you read on GJ is how great their **** is, but yet aren't US-made anymore.....

Give SK and their new owners the benefit of the doubt and see what happens. Not buying anything from them is the sure way to shut them down.

 

[RickyPetite]

So SK was sold and they are moving to a different state and yet all I hear is negative this and negative that. Nothing but doom and gloom.

Folks, SK is still a "made in USA" tool, made by Americans, with American tooling and steel. That is better than what Gearwrench (KD Tools) & Milwaukee Electric can say, and yet, all you read on GJ is how great their **** is, but yet aren't US-made anymore.....

Give SK and their new owners the benefit of the doubt and see what happens. Not buying anything from them is the sure way to shut them down.

I agree with giving them a chance. Unfortunately, they don't seem to have very little "Made in USA" inventory left. Shutting down their current factory won't help. The next wave of product will tell the tale...

 

[cib]

I agree with giving them a chance. Unfortunately, they don't seem to have very little "Made in USA" inventory left. Shutting down their current factory won't help. The next wave of product will tell the tale...

It does get them out from under IL's tax burden which is staggeringly high with no signs of it going away. SK is a long line of companies leaving the state. Not getting into politics but that is something that will benefit them. I'm curious if Ideal keeps the old new building or if GreatStar owns it but decided to sell it.

 

[neophyte]

I watched my former employer close about a million square feet (2 buildings and close to 3k people) of precision metal machining (critical tolerances to a millionth of an inch) and 2 heat treat facilities and move it to NC, china and india so it isn't really that heard to move. As for the personell maybe a dozen people went with the equipment.

There have been at least two major moves of tool manufacturing facilities in the USA that I recall.

One was MAC Tools, which Stanley owned(and still does), and they decided to move or consolidate facilities.
The move went so poorly, MAC was unable produce tools or at least efficiently for months or years, to the point were dealers didn’t have inventory, which later resulted in a lawsuit, and a website which I believe was “MacToolsSucks” or something like that. MAC Tools’ market share supposedly dropped significantly after that compared to other truck brands like Snap-On, and now a number of MAC tools are made overseas.

The other instance is/was Armstrong Tools, which decided to consolidate manufacturing in a single plant.
From what I’ve heard, very little of the manufacturing equipment managed to get set up, or set up right, and while some production continued much of it stopped, to the point were the brand got killed off.

Plenty of other brands have moved overseas and had production quality go to ****.
Snap-On moved the production of Bahco’s adjustable wrenches to Spain, and some of the wrenches I’ve seen have machining bad enough it surprises me Snap-On would even allow a Snap-On connected brands name on them. The same facility also produces adjustable wrenches for the Snap-On brand.
Bahco used to be considered dome of the best adjustable wrenches.

 

[Finance Guy]

"Some US manufacturing" will likely mean assembly of china forged components with a healthy "Assembled in USA with global components" disclaimer.

From my viewpoint, it seems that Great Star has been acquiring companies otherwise left for dead … if they invest a single dime in SK or anyone else, we (consumers) will be better off.

I also think this obsession with “…made with global components” is a little amusing. Virtually EVERYTHING is made with components sourced globally.

 

[M6erfan]

That's a genuine pile of supposition and wild guessing.

As is this whole thread.

 

[M635_Guy]

As is this whole thread.

Fair

 

[Xcursion88]

Most of the reason SO costs so much is to give the truck guys the ability to pay for their trucks, their house, their cars, etc.

This...and quite honestly only this.

They don't have several things built into the price....they have one.

The truck service.

That business model however has/is doing ok...no?
TBH I'm running a shop and we're thankful for the truck service.
We have SO and Mac (used to have Matco but he moved four states south)

FWIW....
Would I pay higher prices for SK products if there was a truck service? Absolutely!!!

Think about that

 

[Bradc1989]

That's a pretty simplistic way to think about it.

I'll give you an example. I joined the SK Club and have been doing the Socket of the Month thing. I choose the free shipping. Every order has come in a fairly big box (I'm going to guess 8"x8"x8") with the socket in a small zip-lock plastic bag. The cost of the shipping almost certainly exceeds the cost of the socket. The cost of the box might too.

I've been ordering two sockets (one free, one reg. price) just so it's half as wasteful.

I'd be quite happy if they were throwing them in small padded envelopes and shipping slow USPS. I have to think somebody is going to look for things like that to reduce costs, and it will be the best kind of thing where they can do that. I have to think, based on my impressions of the way they operate, that there will be lots of other process efficiencies that can be found that are just pure benefit.

I ordered my August free socket yesterday (and an extra guilt-socket) and already had a shipment notification before I went to bed last night. That's a record... (though we'll see how long it takes to actually get out of there...)

During the last steals in deals I got 3 packages for 4 items. The last box contained only a 30mm combo wrench and cAme in a roughly 16”x10x10” box. I still have a hard time understanding how a person says to themselves “yep that’s a great way to shop a wrench”

 

[M635_Guy]

During the last steals in deals I got 3 packages for 4 items. The last box contained only a 30mm combo wrench and cAme in a roughly 16”x10x10” box. I still have a hard time understanding how a person says to themselves “yep that’s a great way to shop a wrench”

Possibly a sign that they don't care. But I placed a socket of the month order on Friday or Saturday (one free, one paid), it shipped the same day and arrives tomorrow. Maybe that's a good sign. It still shipped FedEx though, and guessing it will be a box - lol.

 

[lardy1]

I typically dispose of the boxes so I'm not real concerned about the configuration of them. It's the quality of the tool inside that I'm concerned with.