question about "aircraft" ratchets

[Hank McMauser]

Okay enlighten me, I understand the need to make sure you don't lose an item down the innardsof a jet engine etc. just wondering if they are a pain in the **** to use in everyday life (how difficult is it to remove/insert the sockets. I assume these use standard everyday sockets, just hold on to them better. please enlighten me.

 

[Gavmo]

Have you got a link to one of these?

Aircraft maintenance is my day job and Im not quite sure what you mean.

 

[ZRX61]

eh? I just use *normal* ratchets...

 

[Mr.Nutcase]

Okay enlighten me, I understand the need to make sure you don't lose an item down the innardsof a jet engine etc. just wondering if they are a pain in the **** to use in everyday life (how difficult is it to remove/insert the sockets. I assume these use standard everyday sockets, just hold on to them better. please enlighten me.

is there such a thing as an "aircraft" ratchets

 

[Hank McMauser]

I'd post a link ,but it's a ebay auction,it's for a proto 1/4" dr aircraft ratchet. older style,not the big dawg style

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=110537022854&Category=31483

now that I've shown ya, please refrain from a bidding war......lol

 

[atari]

MSC lists them new in there catalog as "aircraft ratchets" also. It has somthing to do with the hole through the drive. I cant remember why though.

 

[Gavmo]

I think Ive found the one youre talking about.

Its a tool for the sheetmetal/airframe trade types. There is a hole drilled through the head of the ratchet to fit an alan key into.

Think of a countersunk bolt with nothing in the head for a screwdriver to get on to. On the other end of the shank there is a hexagonal shaped hole for an alan key.

The nut that goes over the end of this is a special nut that will have the head shear off at a specified torque.

The idea is that while you tighten the nut you put the alan key through the head of the ratchet to hold the bolt.

 

[Mickey O]

Are those the ones you have to stick a "pin" into to attach and release sockets from? If they are, I've seen and used them, pain in the ***, but the socket will not fall off but you can still drop the entire ratchet, I suppose you could safety wire the ratchet to a wrist strap, but what if you drop the ratchet and it pulls you in.

 

[Hank McMauser]

so other than having a hole through the drive portion it's pretty much a standard ratchet, I would guess that the hole would cause that portion to be a weaker link, but we're only talking 1/4" drive here so no biggie there.

 

[Gavmo]

I have no idea what the torque figure is for them but I dont think that its anything really huge. I used one for the first time in about two years a couple of days ago and just used a spanner. It cant affect the head strength that much

 

[Teken]

Do you really need one, or you just want one? I don't see the benefit unless you're in the direct trade of using this tool . . .

 

[ourkid2000]

I'd post a link ,but it's a ebay auction,it's for a proto 1/4" dr aircraft ratchet. older style,not the big dawg style

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=110537022854&Category=31483

now that I've shown ya, please refrain from a bidding war......lol

Gavmo is correct, That's a Hi-Lock ratchet, not an "aircraft ratchet".......

Used to attach Hi-Lock fasteners (a fancy rivet).

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

The other "aircraft" style of ratchet are the FOD ratchets that are riveted together instead of using screws. There is no way to loose a mounting plate screw and later discover what was left of it in the compressor vanes.

Edit: this is one of them:

Snapon FOD ratchet

 

[Teken]

The other "aircraft" style of ratchet are the FOD ratchets that are riveted together instead of using screws. There is no way to loose a mounting plate screw and later discover what was left of it in the compressor vanes.

Edit: this is one of them:

Snapon FOD ratchet

As much as I appreciate people in the aircraft industry trying to maintane our level of safety and reduce FOD incidents.

I can't believe a ratchet screw, cover plate, has ever fallen off of a ratchet. Now I socket I can see etc . . . A part from the ratchet, no . . .

 

[Demian]

Hi-Locs are nice, one man install in most cases with no need to buck a rivet. They're generally interchangeable with rivets dependent on the application. Unless your doing a lot of aircraft structures work I wouldn't think you'd need a hi-loc ratchet and even then a lot of the areas where hi-locs are installed won't allow enough clearance for the ratchet head. I actually bought a set of small box wrenches just for installing hi-locks in tight spots.
I used to install some fairly large hi-locs on 757 engine struts and some of those collars could be a ***** to break off.

 

[Mickey O]

As much as I appreciate people in the aircraft industry trying to maintane our level of safety and reduce FOD incidents.

I can't believe a ratchet screw, cover plate, has ever fallen off of a ratchet. Now I socket I can see etc . . . A part from the ratchet, no . . .

I've had the screws loosen and some come out, don't know when or how they came out but they are missing, I have a MAC ratchet right now that the screw broke and the reaming part could just fall out at any time, also had the selectors fall off a few, mainly old indestro's and Craftsman's.

 

[Teken]

I've had the screws loosen and some come out, don't know when or how they came out but they are missing, I have a MAC ratchet right now that the screw broke and the reaming part could just fall out at any time, also had the selectors fall off a few, mainly old indestro's and Craftsman's.

Geeeeeeeeeese, I dunno. Maybe its me, but once a month I check all the tools in my cart / tool chest that are high usage tools and verify their working state.

If anything appears to be worn, faulty, missing something it is placed into a warranty box off to the side . . .

In almost 25 plus years that box has had only 3 items sitting in there for warranty and one of it was user abuse / oh **** . . . A breaker bar was sitting on the table and one of the guys dropped a cut off wheel in mid flight and it came wirling down and took a nice chunk out of the breaker bar . . .

The other two were from flaking chrome, that I didn't want to become a problem down the line . . . Other than that I have never seen that happen.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

As much as I appreciate people in the aircraft industry trying to maintane our level of safety and reduce FOD incidents.

I can't believe a ratchet screw, cover plate, has ever fallen off of a ratchet. Now I socket I can see etc . . . A part from the ratchet, no . . .

Teken,

They can fall out (and have) without being noticed. Yeh, I might catch it after a few days but then it would be too late. I don't work on a flight line but used to be on one a lot. I have seen a bunch of AF GI's working and you can take it to the bank that if it a tool can be messed up, they can do it.

I won't EVEN go into Marine A/P techs. High tech to them is baling wire and duct tape after hammering out the dents with ball peen hammers.

 

[Hank McMauser]

Don't really need one, been looking for an older proto 1/4" ratchet,and keep seeing these, I really like the proto's "ratchetiness"... I think I'll keep looking for a standard ratchet.

 

[SCscoutguy]

As much as I appreciate people in the aircraft industry trying to maintane our level of safety and reduce FOD incidents.

I can't believe a ratchet screw, cover plate, has ever fallen off of a ratchet. Now I socket I can see etc . . . A part from the ratchet, no . . .

It happens all the time. Armstrong brand ratchets are the worst for doing it. The Marine Corps bought a bunch of Armstrong brand tools in the early 90's and disposed of all of them within a year because of all of the FOD problems.

 

[Teken]

Come on . . .

 

[bonneyman]

....I suppose you could safety wire the ratchet to a wrist strap, but what if you drop the ratchet and it pulls you in.

Got a good laugh out of this one!

 

[Steve from Socal]

The "aircraft ratchets" are just to the left of the prop wash in the wall cabinet.

Steve

 

[Steve from Socal]

Do you keep the rotor wash in there, too?

Of course; that is to the left of the ratchet!

Steve

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I have a Proto manufactured and a Snap-On manufactured 1/4 drive hi-lock ratchets. Both are private labeled for the Hi-Shear Corporation. Both are short handled and have the hole in the middle of the drive to insert an allen wrench into to hold the hi-lock from turning while tightening the collar. Usually they are installed with an interference fit in the hole (driven in with a rivet gun) so the allen wrench and special ratchet is not needed, but sometimes you get small ones thru thin material and have to hold the fastener with the allen wrench.

In both cases, there is NOTHING to hold the socket on with, it falls off very easily. The only hi-lock ratchet I've seen that actually retains the socket are the ones made by MAC, and they have the spring ring around the square drive to hold the socket.

The Proto made one I found inside the nose cone to a Gulfstream II I used to maintain, after it returned from a check. The Snap On made one, I bought new for $7 from a new/used aircraft tool dealer that used to come around at work.

Charles

 

[ZRX61]

I temporarily lost a screwdriver in a P38 engine cowl once...... for 3 months.

Lower cowls are stainless so had to keep trying bigger/stronger magnets to get the screwdriver. Finally got it.

Wasn't any danger to the aircraft as all we had were 2 QEC's on engine stands & there was never any danger of the aircraft flying with MY damn screwdriver still in it. Pisser was I could reach down inside the cowl & *just* touch the damn thing, but couldn't reach in there with a magnet in my hand...

I hate it when that happens...


Back on topic:
If the OP had said "Hi Lok ratchets" I would have known what he was talking about

These things:

 

[Hank McMauser]

Sorry guys I guess I learned something today, I never knew what a hy lok fastener was, I knew they had something to do with fasteners on an aircraft which explains why I see them listed on ebay as "aircraft ratchets" Thank you for helping me become less ignorant today.

 

[89MustangGX]

Here we use Hy-Lok ratchets that have sockets pinned in place, and pneumatic nut-runners that have strong pins to hold the socket in place (difficult to remove), but our hand ratchets are all standard Snap-On Dual 80's mostly. No special FOD or sealed ratchets here.

Adam

 

[Charles (in GA)]

A hi-lock is nothing more than a bolt, made of steel or titanium, a few of aluminum, threaded like a bolt, but with either a smooth countersunk head, or a raised, flat, round head, low profile, with not hex or other way of driving the head. Generally you make the hole undersize by a thousandth or two depending on the size and fastener, and you pound it into the hole using a rivet gun and a flat set (this is in heavy structure) then you use a aluminum or possibly steel collar. It has threads like a nut, usually recessed some so the collar can screw down with a slight bit of smooth shank showing on the hi-lock. Anyhow, you use the ratchet and socket, or nut runner, etc to run the collar down and the hex portion shears off at the proper torque. The fastener has a recessed 6 pt allen bit hole in the end (threaded end) so that you can keep it from turning if needed, by using a allen wrench thru the hollow ratchet and socket.

Large aircraft are assembled using about 85% hi-locks in the structure.

Charles

 

[foul_ball]

Here we use Hy-Lok ratchets that have sockets pinned in place, and pneumatic nut-runners that have strong pins to hold the socket in place (difficult to remove), but our hand ratchets are all standard Snap-On Dual 80's mostly. No special FOD or sealed ratchets here.

Adam

you must be working 777 if your tool room has dual 80's to issue out. Those things seem to be too spendy for the '47 side of the factory....

 

[highland512]

Well looks to me like if you do win this ratchet on ebay and dont like the aircraft part you could just send proto an email and get a rebuild kit for a 4749, then you would have a plain old proto ratchet.

 

[89MustangGX]

you must be working 777 if your tool room has dual 80's to issue out. Those things seem to be too spendy for the '47 side of the factory....

I worked 747 for a while and you're right, the tools are definitely not as nice.

Adam