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Crappy tools / tool steel from India

Vicks

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May 23, 2019
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178
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Dubai
We've all seen and experienced the crapy tools that are "gasp" shittier if not the same turd quality as cheap made in China tools. I stopped buying any hand tools that are made in India (and China) in the last couple of years ever since i discovered higher quality tools that are European and Japanese made, albeit more expensive. We have all generally come to despise tools made in India most often throwing them into the same garbage bin containing crappy Chinese tools.

Now, the confusion for me (being Indian) is that i clearly remember reading in school about the famous Iron pillar currently in Delhi which doesn't rust (so it must have been alloyed with suitable elements) and was built up to a total height of about 7mtrs using individual blocks/pieces (so it must have been forged/welded together), took a cannon ball hit at some point of time and didn't shatter into pieces (so it must have been properly annealed after the manufacturing process) so on an so forth (you can read all about the pillar here) and you know what ? this pillar is dated back to 4th - 5th century. So, it befuddles me that a people who made such good steel millenia and a half ago can't made a decent pair of pliers or sockets today that can compete against the rest of the world ! I mean, what the **** happened India ?

We have all gotten used to hearing of Damascus steel as being the holy grail of the time but we forget that the Arabs took it from Persia who took it from South India and Srilanka. In fact the well renowned Wootz steel (a GJ search for "Wootz" gave me zero hits) which happens to be the highest carbon steel at the time, was being made in India by 400-500BC !! and exported world wide. At a time when India was being plundered for spices, gold and diamonds, in 327BC, Alexander took a reward/donation of approx 15Kgs of the local Wootz steel from King Porus who was defeated at his hands, surely Alex the great knew real **** (i say he should be made an honorary posthumous GJ member lol) from shiny ****.

So i wonder how and why it has come to this that India makes such crappy tools today after having made the best tool steel (tools at those times were weapons) of the time ?
 
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zendriver

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So i wonder how and why it has come to this that India makes such crappy tools today after having made the best tool steel (tools at those times were weapons) of the time ?
There is no big push, because there is no money to be made, in "re-inventing the wheel" in an already saturated global market, of relatively good quality tools, would be my guess.

If India is the second larges producer of steel in the world, it's kind of hard to believe all they make is ****.
 
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2ndGearRubber

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Pittsburgh
Because the main reason to make things in a country with minimal regulations for worker safety and environmental impact, and with poor working conditions, is price.

Things that compete on price, do not typically make quality the ultimate goal. Conversely, imagine making something in the first world, where labor is more expensive and regulations tighter. Because a company is now unlikely to compete solely on price due to these factors, increasing the quality of the product and competing on that instead is a more viable model.


It's just economics.
 

FMB4

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Jan 19, 2017
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2,926
I've been using set of 'Made in India' long handled double box end wrenches for over 35 years. They have held up very well in both DIY and ~15 years of professional use. I also have a pair of 35ish year old 'Made in S Korea' side cutters and a pair long needle nose pliers that still work great. The Korean cutters and needle nose pliers are very well finished while the Indian box ends are about as well finished as the raised panel Craftsman wrenches. I'll also note that the Korean tools have outlasted my Proto cutters and N nose pliers (I'm a huge fan of non-Stanl*y Proto tools but have not had great luck with Proto pliers for some reason).
 

Nick Danger

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Albuquerque
I'm going to guess that Indian industry could make good quality tools if they wanted to, but they're making what the market wants. It's a matter of money.

Just because some emperor in antiquity could make something, it doesn't mean that anyone would want to make something similar today. Trajan's column is 35 meters tall and it was constructed entirely by muscle power. Imagine how much it cost to have an army of workmen cutting the thirty-ton marble drums, transporting them to Rome, and lifting them into place. It's also a matter of money.
 

VolvoRyan

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Steel doesn't grow out of the ground in I-Beams. There's no such thing as Indian, Chinese, or American steel. It's an alloy that gets formed through a bunch of processes to make a product. You can cut costs anywhere in the pipeline to make products as good or as poor as you want.

The cheap tools we get from India or China aren't the same tools that India and China uses.

-Ryan
 

Downwindtracker 2

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BC
I've got a feeling, which is to say no proof, that tools with the company name on them, tend to better quality. I'm happy with my Groz vises. Gedore made wrenches in India many years ago, I wasn't impressed. To the point where anything Gedore is suspect.
 

DAustin

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Jul 30, 2021
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China has a Space Station, they have rovers on the Moon and Mars. I have a hard time believing they have done all that using HF quality tools , So I wonder what tools do they use ?
 

dscheidt

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Apr 26, 2017
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2,905
I'm going to guess that Indian industry could make good quality tools if they wanted to, but they're making what the market wants. It's a matter of money.
Twenty or so years ago, I went to a party thrown by cow-orker. One of the other guests was his cousin who was visiting america trying to sell tools produced by the family drop forge business in India. He claimed that they could produce tools as good as anyone (and he had a couple samples that were as well finished and chrome plated as anything I've seen), but no one wanted to pay for them. What people were willing to pay for was tools made from suspect steel, and with runs longer than the tooling could really support. He wanted to sell better stuff, I don't know if he got anyone to buy in or not.
 

m6z

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Missouri
The cheap tools we get from India or China aren't the same tools that India and China uses.

-Ryan
This.

At the moment the lowest price point tools seems to be coming out of India. It's no surprise that a set of wrenches that retails for $10 or less is ****, what's surprising is that people actually purchase this garbage and there's a market for it.
 

Jtels85

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May 3, 2017
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SB&D’s Craftsman raised panel wrenches at Lowe’s are now made in India. The finish is so crude and they look absolutely pathetic. It makes one long for the days when you could go to Sears and buy a quality China made raised panel wrench.
 

qqzj

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Nov 28, 2017
Messages
3,747
SB&D’s Craftsman raised panel wrenches at Lowe’s are now made in India. The finish is so crude and they look absolutely pathetic. It makes one long for the days when you could go to Sears and buy a quality China made raised panel wrench.
People like to ridicule Chinese made Craftsman tools. However, there are obviously many levels of Chinese wrenches in Sears. The lowest is the raised-panel ones. Next is the short crab claws. Then the best is the long-pattern wrenches. Those are made very well and the shape is beautiful. But they are quite a bit more expensive than the other two types. So Sears rarely promoted them and there are less to be found now. I have no evidence how they really compare to other American tools. They work fine for me and are pleasant in appearance. That is all I know. I got a bunch of them just before Sears bit the dust.
 

Badgerstate

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Nov 15, 2020
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484
Location
Columbus, OH
Id say its because they are trying to cut production costs as much as possible and when you do that, often quality goes out the window.
Personally, I think its pretty silly to say, "I refuse to buy tools from country X" because theres good and bad tools from everywhere.
Ive used some newer Chinese and Taiwanese tools that would put the old made in the USA Craftsman tools to shame and Ive had some Chinese and Taiwanese tools that werent great. A couple years ago I had a little Crescent socket set that I rounded off the sockets in less than 6 months of occasional use. India or China could make the best tools in the world if they wanted to but they are trying to make tools that are cheap because thats what Americans want. The American way is cheaper and faster = better. Thats why all of these companies have outsourced to other countries. People in China, India, Taiwan, etc will work harder than Americans will for less money, less benefits and still be happy doing so. Many probably wont want to hear this but its the truth.
 

Geezer

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Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
84
Location
Atlanta Ga.
We've all seen and experienced the crapy tools that are "gasp" shittier if not the same turd quality as cheap made in China tools. I stopped buying any hand tools that are made in India (and China) in the last couple of years ever since i discovered higher quality tools that are European and Japanese made, albeit more expensive. We have all generally come to despise tools made in India most often throwing them into the same garbage bin containing crappy Chinese tools.

Now, the confusion for me (being Indian) is that i clearly remember reading in school about the famous Iron pillar currently in Delhi which doesn't rust (so it must have been alloyed with suitable elements) and was built up to a total height of about 7mtrs using individual blocks/pieces (so it must have been forged/welded together), took a cannon ball hit at some point of time and didn't shatter into pieces (so it must have been properly annealed after the manufacturing process) so on an so forth (you can read all about the pillar here) and you know what ? this pillar is dated back to 4th - 5th century. So, it befuddles me that a people who made such good steel millenia and a half ago can't made a decent pair of pliers or sockets today that can compete against the rest of the world ! I mean, what the **** happened India ?

We have all gotten used to hearing of Damascus steel as being the holy grail of the time but we forget that the Arabs took it from Persia who took it from South India and Srilanka. In fact the well renowned Wootz steel (a GJ search for "Wootz" gave me zero hits) which happens to be the highest carbon steel at the time, was being made in India by 400-500BC !! and exported world wide. At a time when India was being plundered for spices, gold and diamonds, in 327BC, Alexander took a reward/donation of approx 15Kgs of the local Wootz steel from King Porus who was defeated at his hands, surely Alex the great knew real **** (i say he should be made an honorary posthumous GJ member lol) from shiny ****.

So i wonder how and why it has come to this that India makes such crappy tools today after having made the best tool steel (tools at those times were weapons) of the time ?..
 
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qqzj

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Nov 28, 2017
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We sell steel to China for cheap.Then our steel companies sell steel to U.S. consumers at higher prices.Because they would rather sell high volume and at a cheap price to them than sell that steel to us at lower volumes.This is what I was told once when the price of metal roof materials "went thru the roof" lol
The materials for roofing is nothing. It is all labor and profit. Three years earlier when I replaced roof for $21k, the cost of materials is ridiculously small, like $4k or something. The rest of$17k is all labor and profit. I freakingly hate service economy. I'd rather all my money goes to tangible stuff.

But I am so happy that I did it three years ago. The cost would go through the roof today. I was going to stretch the life of the old one for a few more years. My neighbors stopped me. And we did it together.
 

zendriver

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Dec 10, 2014
Messages
30,050
Location
Indiana
China has a Space Station, they have rovers on the Moon and Mars. I have a hard time believing they have done all that using HF quality tools , So I wonder what tools do they use ?

Just a guess. :lol:
Snap-on Asia Manufacturing (Kunshan) Co., Ltd. manufactures tools. The Company produces hand tools, power tools, cutting tools, and other products. Snap-on Asia Manufacturing (Kunshan) also produces vehicle maintenance equipment, vehicle inspection equipment, and other equipment.

 

2ndGearRubber

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Mar 24, 2014
Messages
14,185
Location
Pittsburgh
The materials for roofing is nothing. It is all labor and profit. Three years earlier when I replaced roof for $21k, the cost of materials is ridiculously small, like $4k or something. The rest of$17k is all labor and profit. I freakingly hate service economy. I'd rather all my money goes to tangible stuff.

But I am so happy that I did it three years ago. The cost would go through the roof today. I was going to stretch the life of the old one for a few more years. My neighbors stopped me. And we did it together.
If you hate paying for service so much, why didnt you install your own roof for 4k in materials?

Guys need paid, the business needs to buy dump trailers, insurance, make a profit, etc.
 

BlakeTheCarGuy

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Oct 10, 2018
Messages
9,383
Location
Roanoke Virginia
Every tool I’ve used from India has been short lived because it’s bent or cracked or broken somehow after a few uses. Sometimes just so rough you can’t even touch it like the new Craftsman raised panel wrenches.
 

seber

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May 31, 2016
Messages
4,202
Location
Deep East Tx.
I have no doubt Indian manufacturers can produce high quality tools but all I have ever seen are ****. That being the case, I will not be purchasing anything from there. There are always proven choices available.
 

Bacon!

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Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Messages
402
If I think back far enough, Chinese imports were the worst decades ago (India tool imports were very rare at the time) but since then, every India made tool I've seen, was the worse of its kind. I've no doubt they can do better but seem to be tiered as the lowest cost to get junk made so have fallen into that import niche.
 

dstblj52

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Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
326
it the purchasing agents if your a brand they have never heard of their going to be dubious of stuff your trying to sell that's high quality but for the ultra cheap stuff all they care about are lowest unit cost producer
 
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