Craftsman is filling out a second shift! (Ft. Worth)

[Ton ton]

Wright is my favorite tool co.

You're thoughts on them or SK are not logical. At all.

Well said.

 

[putergod]

Wright is my favorite tool co.

You're thoughts on them or SK are not logical. At all.

I think what he is saying is that if Wright and/or SK was available at the big box stores (particularly Lowes) that Craftsman would effectively die.
I think he's wrong simply because Wright and SK are considerably more expensive than Craftsman - even US Made Craftsman.
I wish those two, plus Proto, were available at a big box store - with prices similar to Zoro's.
Then again... maybe not... I'd spend way to much time - and money - there if they were.

 

[Davefr]

I agree that soon is relative, but in an industry where a company made its name making US Made tools for the home mechanic... I would say that time is of the essence. People trusted the Craftsman name and have since switched to other manufacturers that produce US Made quality product. The longer that they hold off on offering USA tools, the more likely less people will flock to them. Think about someone like Wright or SK selling out of ACE, Home Depot or Lowes with Made in USA on the packaging. They would bump Craftsman right out of the market.

The average consumer that shops retail has never heard of Wright or SK. The retailers you mentioned would be crazy to allocate precious shelf space to those brands because the consumer has never heard of them and pricing would look insane compared to Husky, Kobalt, Gearwrench, etc.

I agree that Craftsman had a good consumer reputation but that has been fading away. There's still time left if they can demonstrate high quality, made in the USA and be reasonably affordable.

 

[Kscardsfan]

The average consumer that shops retail has never heard of Wright or SK. The retailers you mentioned would be crazy to allocate precious shelf space to those brands because the consumer has never heard of them and pricing would look insane compared to Husky, Kobalt, Gearwrench, etc.

I agree that Craftsman had a good consumer reputation but that has been fading away. There's still time left if they can demonstrate high quality, made in the USA and be reasonably affordable.

That and they don’t have near the margins that they can squeeze out of various store brands and “official partners“ or whatever nonsense they’re spouting for the Milwaukee and Dewalt branded hand tools on their shelves.

 

[zendriver]

do you not understand the sec rules on disclosure?

The Company could always make an announcement, but is seems they are serving crickets.

One would think that actually announcing something - like USA made hand tools for sale, would be a bit more important than 2nd shift hiring, but we apparently take whatever we get.

Maybe they figure that for the most part, people have moved on, so a big reveal, might actually backfire, especially if people start complaining about the price and/or scrutinizing the quality.

 

[AceofSpad3s]

I don't see how anyone thinks there is a place in reality for large stores to have any sort of industrial grade or high end tools in them and actually be worth while for them to bother.
Only viable market for them to hit the consumer would be online and have good customer service. I don't shop on warranties but I bought a set of Tekton USA punches (not very thrilled with them just shipping lose rattling in a bag at the price) and one had a chipped face, I just took a picture and they sent me a new one. I will consider purchasing more of their products due to the easy of service.

 

[dnschmidt]

A lot of the threads are getting more existential. In the past, tools were discussed on their merits to perform a task whereas now the morally redemptive values of the supply chain of said tool are thrust into the forefront of the conversation. Unfortunately, you rarely realize when the goods time are until they have passed.

Not surprising considering that daily we have to deal with these ******** questions over and over again:

1) What compressor should I buy?
2) Is Snap-On worth it?
3) What is this **** I inherited from my dead (miscellaneous family member inserted here) worth?
4) Who makes the best ratchet, wrench, screwdriver, socket or whatever other garbage somebody can think of.

It just goes on and on. No wonder things go off track once in a while. Boredom sets in.

 

[PugetDude]

Not surprising considering that daily we have to deal with these ******** questions over and over again:

1) What compressor should I buy?
2) Is Snap-On worth it?
3) What is this **** I inherited from my dead (miscellaneous family member inserted here) worth?
4) Who makes the best ratchet, wrench, screwdriver, socket or whatever other garbage somebody can think of.

It just goes on and on. No wonder things go off track once in a while. Boredom sets in.

Yet, here you are.

 

[Jtels85]

Not surprising considering that daily we have to deal with these ******** questions over and over again:

1) What compressor should I buy?
2) Is Snap-On worth it?
3) What is this **** I inherited from my dead (miscellaneous family member inserted here) worth?
4) Who makes the best ratchet, wrench, screwdriver, socket or whatever other garbage somebody can think of.

It just goes on and on. No wonder things go off track once in a while. Boredom sets in.

Here’s what I do when someone posts something in the forums I don’t care about…

I move on.

There are numerous threads here which pose no interest to me, so I generally tend to stay out of them.

If someone proposes a question or topic and multiple people participate (regardless of how often that topic has resurfaced), that makes the topic relevant for discussion.

By the way, which socket do you feel is more prone to rounding fasteners, 6 point or 12 point?

 

[Ton ton]

Here’s what I do when someone posts something in the forums I don’t care about…

I move on.

There are numerous threads here which pose no interest to me, so I generally tend to stay out of them.

If someone proposes a question or topic and multiple people participate (regardless of how often that topic has resurfaced), that makes the topic relevant for discussion.

By the way, which socket do you feel is more prone to rounding fasteners, 6 point or 12 point?

Probably going to blame the 6 point for everything bad happening in the world right now.

 

[LOW1]

Before anyone gets too excited I think we should wait and see if what that factory makes is any good or not.

 

[zendriver]

I was never a huge fan of radio shock jock Howard Stern, but he did have a wuotealways remember

“The day I don’t have an opinion, on a subject I know absolutely nothing about, is the day I will be out of a job.”

just seems fitting

 

[DemoFly]

Before anyone gets too excited I think we should wait and see if what that factory makes is any good or not.

To keep things in perspective I like to remember that this forum hyped up the P&R made Channellock screwdrivers. A lot of people (myself included) spent professional tool money for box store quality.

Bring on the haters, those screwdrivers ****

 

[1foxracing]

How long did it take SK to release the LP90 ratchets after they teased about them? I bought into the "hype" of those and when they finally released them found out the Harbor Freight Pittsburgh Pro is a better ratchet.

 

[BMoscato]

The average consumer that shops retail has never heard of Wright or SK. The retailers you mentioned would be crazy to allocate precious shelf space to those brands because the consumer has never heard of them and pricing would look insane compared to Husky, Kobalt, Gearwrench, etc.

I agree that Craftsman had a good consumer reputation but that has been fading away. There's still time left if they can demonstrate high quality, made in the USA and be reasonably affordable.

I guess I grew up in a different time than a lot of you guys. Back in the late 70's early 80's you could find S-K tools for sale in local hardware stores and bicycle shops. The same went for Channel Lock and Klein. To date, most people from my era still call tongue & groove straight jaw pliers by any manufacturer Channel Locks because they were the brand that were sold in the stores.

 

[putergod]

I guess I grew up in a different time than a lot of you guys. Back in the late 70's early 80's you could find S-K tools for sale in local hardware stores and bicycle shops. The same went for Channel Lock and Klein. To date, most people from my era still call tongue & groove straight jaw pliers by any manufacturer Channel Locks because they were the brand that were sold in the stores.

It's because they were the brand that pioneered the design.
It's no different than calling all adjustable wrenches "Crescent Wrenches", all lineman pliers "Kleins", hand held circular saws "Skil Saws", hex wrenches "Allen Wrenches", etc. It's common across all industries for a pioneer of a product (either by invention or popularity) to be erroneously used as the product name, rather than just the brand.

 

[BMoscato]

It's because they were the brand that pioneered the design.
It's no different than calling all adjustable pliers "Crescent Wrenches", all lineman pliers "Kleins", hand held circular saws "Skil Saws", hex wrenches "Allen Wrenches", etc. It's common across all industries for a pioneer of a products (either by invention or popularity) to be erroneously used as the product name, rather than just the brand.

Understood, but my point was that these brands, S-K, Channel Lock, Klein were all sold in small local hardware and specialty shops across the nation. Why is it so hard to believe that a US made brand like S-K wouldn't fair well in todays big box stores?

 

[lardy1]

Because cheap is just a click away.

 

[putergod]

Understood, but my point was that these brands, S-K, Channel Lock, Klein were all sold in small local hardware and specialty shops across the nation. Why is it so hard to believe that a US made brand like S-K wouldn't fair well in todays big box stores?

Oh.. I don't believe that.
Channel-Lock is still sold in Lowes and Home Depot (including the US made offerings).

But the guy you quoted is correct. The average consumer, who isn't into tools and wrenching, likely hasn't heard of SK, Wright, and Proto. However, I do believe the "smart" consumer will see the Made in USA label, and should immediately deduce that these more expensive brands are far superior to the cheap chinesium brands typically available in big box stores, so I don't, necessarily, think they would do poorly, but I do think it would take time and marketing for them to do well enough to justify shelf space.

 

[JeepYJ]

Because cheap is just a click away.

If you’re in a store buying something it’s probably because you need it right away. The “click away” is also applicable to US made premium tools such as Wright, Proto,
Snap On, etc. If someone is looking for that (US made top tier tools) online ordering gives you access to thousands of options that would never be in a retail store like Lowe’s or HD.

 

[JeepYJ]

Oh.. I don't believe that.
Channel-Lock is still sold in Lowes and Home Depot (including the US made offerings).

But the guy you quoted is correct. The average consumer, who isn't into tools and wrenching, likely hasn't heard of SK, Wright, and Proto. However, I do believe the "smart" consumer will see the Made in USA label, and should immediately deduce that these more expensive brands are far superior to the cheap chinesium brands typically available in big box stores, so I don't, necessarily, think they would do poorly, but I do think it would take time and marketing for them to do well enough to justify shelf space.

I don’t shop the tool sections very often in the big box stores but I’d imagine there’s about the same amount of US made tools in a Walmart as there is Lowe’s or HD. Milwaukee and Dewalt are really getting into the hand tool market at the big boxes and they’re all imports AFAIK. Their marketing is working for them.

 

[putergod]

I don’t shop the tool sections very often in the big box stores but I’d imagine there’s about the same amount of US made tools in a Walmart as there is Lowe’s or HD. Milwaukee and Dewalt are really getting into the hand tool market at the big boxes and they’re all imports AFAIK. Their marketing is working for them.

I don't shop HD a lot, but Lowes definitely has a lot more "Made in USA" tools on the shelf than Walmart. Even Kobalt used to be....

 

[JeepYJ]

I don't shop HD a lot, but Lowes definitely has a lot more "Made in USA" tools on the shelf than Walmart. Even Kobalt used to be....

Made in the USA at Lowe’s
Kobalt- NO
Craftsman- NO
Irwin- NO
Gearwwrench- NO
Tekton- mostly NO
Knipex- NO

Maybe I’m missing some US made tools at Lowe’s. Making Kobalt in the USA 10+ years ago is irrelevant. Walmart actually has quite a few things made in the US in their tool aisle.

 

[dstblj52]

Made in the USA at Lowe’s
Kobalt- NO
Craftsman- NO
Irwin- NO
Gearwwrench- NO
Tekton- mostly NO
Knipex- NO

Maybe I’m missing some US made tools at Lowe’s. Making Kobalt in the USA 10+ years ago is irrelevant. Walmart actually has quite a few things made in the US in their tool aisle.

Craftsman has some ideal has some so their is some

 

[putergod]

Made in the USA at Lowe’s
Kobalt- NO
Craftsman- NO
Irwin- NO
Gearwwrench- NO
Tekton- mostly NO
Knipex- NO

Maybe I’m missing some US made tools at Lowe’s. Making Kobalt in the USA 10+ years ago is irrelevant. Walmart actually has quite a few things made in the US in their tool aisle.

Lenox - Some, yes
Craftsman - Some, yes
Dewalt - Some, yes
Channel Lock - Some, yes
Southwire - Some, yes

and the list does continue... I just don't feel like continuing it....

 

[JeepYJ]

Craftsman has some ideal has some so their is some

Lenox - Some, yes
Craftsman - Some, yes
Dewalt - Some, yes
Channel Lock - Some, yes
Southwire - Some, yes

and the list does continue... I just don't feel like continuing it....

I didn’t say there was none at Lowe’s, just not that much. Definitely not a whole brand lineup of US made tools.

 

[putergod]

I didn’t say there was none at Lowe’s, just not that much. Definitely not a whole brand lineup of US made tools.

I was just pointing out that there are SOME, and definitely more than Walmart.
COO is one of the things I check when I am looking for a tool at Lowes.

 

[JeepYJ]

I was just pointing out that there are SOME, and definitely more than Walmart.
COO is one of the things I check when I am looking for a tool at Lowes.

If you haven’t checked the Walmart tool aisle you may surprised. There is still plenty of junk from India, China, etc but they do have some US made items probably in a similar percentage as Lowe’s. Obviously Lowe’s has a lot more tools than Walmart.

 

[DAustin]

So with all this, are more people going to buy Craftsman made in the US vs. the ones made in China ? It looks like a lot of people don't think that much of Craftsman tools even before the move to China. Also the people that are buying Craftsman tools right now, do you think they care one way or the other where they are made ?

 

[BMoscato]

So with all this, are more people going to buy Craftsman made in the US vs. the ones made in China ? It looks like a lot of people don't think that much of Craftsman tools even before the move to China. Also the people that are buying Craftsman tools right now, do you think they care one way or the other where they are made ?

I wonder how many people have no clue that Craftsman was no longer made in the USA. I honestly had no clue because I haven't been in the market for their type of tools in a long time.

 

[AceofSpad3s]

So with all this, are more people going to buy Craftsman made in the US vs. the ones made in China ? It looks like a lot of people don't think that much of Craftsman tools even before the move to China. Also the people that are buying Craftsman tools right now, do you think they care one way or the other where they are made ?

I don't know where the intense goodwill or optimism comes from in the circles who actually buy tools often. Were they anything special in the past 20 years? The wrenches were okay before they got really lobster clawy like the chinese ones, sockets were basically the same as all the other store brands like husky,lowes,allen,master mechanic, since they used the same OEM's for the most part. The western forge bulk pack screwdrivers were invariably **** for a very long time. Only things of real note I can remember actually buying there prior to them closing 4 or 5 years ago (even then the last few years I only went in if they basically gave me money) and liking were re branded wilde pry bars and Vaughn hammers, vessel ball grip drivers and the flush rivet pliers (that I found at the junkyard ). Their decline was more symbolic of the industries being lost to outsourcing as they were one of the last, larges and most well known store brand that still carried a large amount of domestically produced tools, and the failure as sears as a business was the death knell for many of their suppliers as Husky,Kobalt etc already moved on earlier from most stuff like drive tools being imported with maybe the aforementioned crappy WF screwdrivers being all that's left for US made tools.

Their value is the name and the good will from people who bought stuff in the 70's/80's, those who grew up with meaningful figures in their life using them and very good brand recognition like many of us often see people sorting out craftsman and selling at higher values at yard sales or ebay while selling snap on stuff for less.
I doubt many people are even aware of any shift in where they came from, and I doubt it would stop many from buying them if you told them as they were looking at them.

If stanley can produce some quality tools between existing store brands and industrial tools, while also supplying decent jobs, that would be great, but I don't understand the hype I've seen around in various places for years.

 

[M635_Guy]

Not surprising considering that daily we have to deal with these ******** questions over and over again:

1) What compressor should I buy?
2) Is Snap-On worth it?
3) What is this **** I inherited from my dead (miscellaneous family member inserted here) worth?
4) Who makes the best ratchet, wrench, screwdriver, socket or whatever other garbage somebody can think of.

It just goes on and on. No wonder things go off track once in a while. Boredom sets in.

 

[Kscardsfan]

It's because they were the brand that pioneered the design.
It's no different than calling all adjustable pliers "Crescent Wrenches", all lineman pliers "Kleins", hand held circular saws "Skil Saws", hex wrenches "Allen Wrenches", etc. It's common across all industries for a pioneer of a products (either by invention or popularity) to be erroneously used as the product name, rather than just the brand.

Or a Sawzall.

 

[DAustin]

Or a Sawzall.

or Vise Grips

 

[Kscardsfan]

or Vise Grips

My dad is college Marketing professor, he had a an ongoing list of generic names like these or Astroturf for any synthetic turf. Not sure if he still maintains it.

 

[DAustin]

My dad is college Marketing professor, he had a an ongoing list of generic names like these or Astroturf for any synthetic turf. Not sure if he still maintains it.

In the UK it's Mole Wrench instead of Vice Grips for a generic name.

 

[JradM]

I don't know where the intense goodwill or optimism comes from in the circles who actually buy tools often.

I'll answer some of that. The Craftsman brand is extremely well-known. It was worth a lot of money even after Sears spent the last twenty years trying to trash it. The assumption is SBD didn't invest in the brand without a plan to revive it.

If you assume the plan was to continue using the name to market Chinese tool-shaped pot metal for as long as the brand held any value - well, that's a possibility. The amount SBD spent to acquire the brand and what appeared in their investor materials seem to belie that assumption, but I acknowledge that for consumers, there hasn't been much to get excited about for the past three years.

However, SBD promised made-in-the-USA tools and did build a new factory. The timelines however, were derailed by the pandemic. If you assume Craftsman will be junk grade forever though, how do you square that with the new factory? There's no tools yet - but the factory exists. Why not hold onto a little hope?

Then recently, V-series tools trickled onto Lowes's website. They certainly look promising to me. Sure, they could be merely Facom-shaped Chinese pot metal - but could even the "Craftsman" brand still be powerful enough to sell that for the prices they're asking?

SBD is a big powerful company. They are fully capable of producing premium grade tools as demonstrated by Mac, Proto, Blackhawk, Facom, etc. I'm optimistic that their ability and investment means the good stuff is yet to come. If there was ever a brand that could be used to market premium tools to the unwashed masses, it's got to be Craftsman.

 

[zendriver]

So with all this, are more people going to buy Craftsman made in the US vs. the ones made in China ? It looks like a lot of people don't think that much of Craftsman tools even before the move to China. Also the people that are buying Craftsman tools right now, do you think they care one way or the other where they are made ?

IMO Not really even about the tools, just a feeling one gets that they will be manufactured here in the USA and hopefully be purchased by someone else.

Just like they have always been, they will likely be adequate tools for hopefully a reasonable price, just like they are now, regardless of where there are made.

anyone expecting anything more will probably just be more disillusioned, than they already are

 

[AceofSpad3s]

I'll answer some of that. The Craftsman brand is extremely well-known. It was worth a lot of money even after Sears spent the last twenty years trying to trash it. The assumption is SBD didn't invest in the brand without a plan to revive it.

If you assume the plan was to continue using the name to market Chinese tool-shaped pot metal for as long as the brand held any value - well, that's a possibility. The amount SBD spent to acquire the brand and what appeared in their investor materials seem to belie that assumption, but I acknowledge that for consumers, there hasn't been much to get excited about for the past three years.

However, SBD promised made-in-the-USA tools and did build a new factory. The timelines however, were derailed by the pandemic. If you assume Craftsman will be junk grade forever though, how do you square that with the new factory? There's no tools yet - but the factory exists. Why not hold onto a little hope?

Then recently, V-series tools trickled onto Lowes's website. They certainly look promising to me. Sure, they could be merely Facom-shaped Chinese pot metal - but could even the "Craftsman" brand still be powerful enough to sell that for the prices they're asking?

SBD is a big powerful company. They are fully capable of producing premium grade tools as demonstrated by Mac, Proto, Blackhawk, Facom, etc. I'm optimistic that their ability and investment means the good stuff is yet to come. If there was ever a brand that could be used to market premium tools to the unwashed masses, it's got to be Craftsman.

They were only ever a brand other people wares were sold under, the name is valuable, but nothing of any note has come from there in a long time prior to the buy out. This Stanley thing has been going on for what, 5 years now? The drive tools they are selling now look better than the sears ones but I still see some raised panel wrenches and ratchets on lowes website which seems odd, those tools needed the axe 30 years ago, perhaps old stock I don't know. So in general I would say it's already a improvement, but only in terms of catching up with the rest of the market.
Then there is the v series nostalgia **** branding, I see people referring to Facom designs, but at least from that one ratchet I saw someone buy from an online seller, it was made in Taiwan. Do we know anything more about other ones, I see them for sale on lowes website, but I don't see any information on where they are from. And if these are Taiwan, and from me adding a 1/4 metric socket set to my cart, it was like $5 less than actual proto. What market does that fit into? Is that going to be the premium line up and the actual US tools are going to be sold as lower end, are they just throwing them out there as a stop gap, why would anyone not just buy actual proto at those prices and have a US product from the same company? What are they going to actually charge if they have a premium craftsman line that is made in the US when the Taiwanese stuff is the same price as SBD industrial products?

Obviously they wouldn't build faculties to do nothing with, but so far over my maybe once a year paying attention since the buy out nothing has shown up for the consumer to buy yet. Until we see what they cost and the quality of the product I see no reason to be excited for anything. I'm not pro or against, I just don't get excited for products we don't even know anything about.

 

[lardy1]

They paid a big price for that name for a reason. For them to rush anything now after making that kind of investment might wreck the whole vision they have. There's a global pandemic. Supply chains are weak at best. There are a lot of good reasons why this is taking so long.

This isn't their first rodeo either. Challenger and Blackhawk come to mind. Both of those lines were well made domestic lines (for the most part). But neither have the recognition and potential buyer base that Craftsman has. I believe they know exactly what they're doing.