The screwdriver debate settled?

[FuzzyTiger]

It looks like we just lost one of the daily topics of conversation on here. Project Farm rather definitively answered the question about which screwdriver brand is best.

I was kind of impressed with how closely his results matched up with the general sentiment on here though. I think we all kind of agreed that PB Swiss made the best screw drivers but they were expensive. The other brands all pretty much held up exactly as I expected. Wera was definitely the one that impressed me the most. I knew they were good, I have some of their stuff but it seems like they are pretty much the best once you factor in price and it doesn't hurt that Canadian tire just started carrying them at reasonable prices too. Sadly he didn't test Fuller but that's alright.

But on a side note - give it another year or two and we'll have nothing left to talk about between Project Farm and Torque Test Channel settling all the debates.

 

[shawhite]

Not sure why you would test a screw driver on impact as that is not what they are designed to do. An impact bit will have different heat treating than a screwdriver for hardness. Also no truck brands tested. The PB Swiss didn’t do as well as you would expect based on how highly they are regarded on this site

 

[four.cycle]

they're probably getting all their beta from GarageJournal.com

 

[shawhite]

Delete

 

[FuzzyTiger]

Not sure why you would test a screw drive on impact as that is not what they are designed to do. An impact bit will have different heat treating than a screwdriver for hardness. Also no truck brands tested. The PB Swiss didn’t do as well as you would expect based on how highly they are regarded on this site

I think the idea was to abuse them and see how well they hold up as an accelerated wear test. Without that kind of abuse, I would expect that none of the decent brands would show any wear at all after just 50 screws.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

I personally think Snap-on has the best regular screwdrivers. But they are also some of the only higher end ones I’ve used. I have no personal experience with something like PB Swiss or anything like that. For JIS Vessel wins that contest.

 

[Fedwrench]

I personally think Snap-on has the best regular screwdrivers. But they are also some of the only higher end ones I’ve used. I have no personal experience with something like PB Swiss or anything like that. For JIS Vessel wins that contest.

I would agree when it comes to Phillips sizes. I mean flat tips are pry bars and chisels The problem with snap on is they mated the world's best blade to the most screwed up handle there is, the Instinct. The older snap on handle style is outstanding though.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

I would agree when it comes to Phillips sizes. I mean flat tips are pry bars and chisels The problem with snap on is they mated the world's best blade to the most screwed up handle there is, the Instinct. The older snap on handle style is outstanding though.

I agree. I don’t like the instinct hard or soft don’t care for either one. And not available in a variety of colors either like the hard handles. Just ordered a set today of the new power blue colored hard handles. Boy am I excited to get them. My dealer said they have been selling like hot cakes since they released that color.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I think the idea was to abuse them and see how well they hold up as an accelerated wear test. Without that kind of abuse, I would expect that none of the decent brands would show any wear at all after just 50 screws.

I guess I just don't see how the test is that relevant. That's not how one uses the screwdriver. Same deal as the cam-out test. You couldn't put that level of downforce on the driver regardless to snap the tip. It's like testing chrome sockets by impacting on them.

The brake clean test was good though.

 

[f121]

I would agree when it comes to Phillips sizes. I mean flat tips are pry bars and chisels The problem with snap on is they mated the world's best blade to the most screwed up handle there is, the Instinct. The older snap on handle style is outstanding though.

Always amazes me how divisive instinct handles are. I know a lot of people who love them, personally I find I can get a lot more torque into them than a regular hard handle and the instinct soft handle is about the only screwdriver type I use.

 

[Tinner]

i think the Project Farm guy should wear a hat with a propeller on it.

 

[shawhite]

Always amazes me how divisive instinct handles are. I know a lot of people who love them, personally I find I can get a lot more torque into them than a regular hard handle and the instinct soft handle is about the only screwdriver type I use.

I feel the same way. I had the style before instinct and when my dealer replaced one of my screwdrivers handles I broke with an instinct I ended up selling my old screwdrivers to a coworker and replacing them all with instinct handles. It’s usually either love or hate with them.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Best is subjective. I have several sets of screwdrivers and a lot of individuals. Sometimes the task at hand alls for a rugged tool and fit isn't critical. Other times it seems like I can try a few different screwdrivers and find one that fits/holds better.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I feel the same way. I had the style before instinct and when my dealer replaced one of my screwdrivers handles I broke with an instinct I ended up selling my old screwdrivers to a coworker and replacing them all with instinct handles. It’s usually either love or hate with them.

If they would make them fully out of plastic theyd be fine by me. I dont like rubber grips that get gross easily. Hard handles wipe clean with a rag, worst case run them under some water.

 

[FMB4]

I've been using a set of SO drivers since '84 or so (10+ years of professional use). Had the #2 Phillips blade changed out by an SO truck in ~ '92 IIRC. They're still going strong to this day. Note: I rarely use any other brand with the exception of a multi-bit drvr and a 'modified' #2 Phill that I welded up into a T-handle back in '82 or so.

 

[FMB4]

Not sure why you would test a screw driver on impact as that is not what they are designed to do. An impact bit will have different heat treating than a screwdriver for hardness.

Yep. I'll also add that most impact tools are made of Cr-Molly while non-impact tools are Cr-Vanadium.

 

[Alpine4x4]

How can one do a "best screwdriver set" and not include Snap-On? They make the best I've ever personally used to the point I will not buy or use anything else.

 

[JradM]

The debate is not over. There's more to it than what was tested. However, it's more data - and I appreciate it.

For one, some of what makes a great screwdriver is how much you like the grip. I personally love Wera's laser tips - but I like Felo better overall because the handle shape is so much more comfortable.

My current favorite is another one not present in this test: The Bacho-branded screwdrivers made by Irazola.

It's hard to devise a perfect test. I really appreciate what the project farm guy does. His tests may not always correspond to real-world application, but they're fair. At least this way we get some sort of information on which to make a decision.

E.g. he measured max force for flat tips before twisting. I've never twisted a flat blade by hand - only if I've done something obviously abusive like prying or using some locking pliers to twist like crazy. By and large the common denominator was just how thick the tip was. If you're using these as screwdrivers, that information is not super useful.

Lots of people pry with their flat blades - maybe it's useful info for them?

 

[mr.lemons]

if it's not damascus, why even bother?

 

[Corndoggeh]

I wish he would have done Grace screwdrivers too. I like my Graces the most because of the wood handle and USA made, would have been nice to see where they lined up with the other well known brands.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I agree, even if the testing was not ideal, it's still a data point.

I would.have preferred just spinning the driver in a screw, make it cam out 200 times or something, then inspecting the tips. IMO the impacting made that data less valuable than face value would suggest.

 

[f121]

If they would make them fully out of plastic theyd be fine by me. I dont like rubber grips that get gross easily. Hard handles wipe clean with a rag, worst case run them under some water.

I just wipe them with a contractors wet wipe to clean them up (same as my pliers, snips, hammers, etc), they come up just fine unless there is a scratch with dirt in it, but that's the same for hard handles.

 

[qqzj]

Ignoring the expensive ones I don't care about at all, obviously China-made Milwaukee is the best. soundly beat USA made Tekton/ChannelLock. Not sure about Klein. For most people, Craftsman is good enough.

 

[qqzj]

But I have seen those Milwaukee on sale for $20 thou. So at the deal price, Milwaukee is clearly the best bang for the buck.

 

[Bubba Fett]

The SBD Craftsman drivers are quite good, actually. Better fit than the last Western Forge ones that Sears was selling, and certainly better then the Chinese ones that Sears had for a while, which were embarrassingly bad. I have a set of Sears Craftsman drivers that were made by Pratt-Read. More comfortable handles, and the tips are better, but the plating is coming off.

I like the Master Mechanic drivers that were made by P-R. The handles felt just right, and the slotted drivers are nearly Cabinet tip, which is nice.

Klein is my favorite, because I can get a lot of speed on them. I have a few Ideal drivers that are similar, and I actually prefer the handles, but Klein has better tips.

I have Williams hard-handle drivers. Not very comfortable, but I can get more torque with them.

I have a lot of others, but those are my top picks for full size drivers. For precision drivers, Wiha is my go-to.

 

[F-22]

But I have seen those Milwaukee on sale for $20 thou. So at the deal price, Milwaukee is clearly the best bang for the buck.

I'd still go for Vessel. He only tested the Megadora. If you check the Vessel catalogue there's some 60 pages of different screwdrivers and handles.... He seems to have also overpaid them a bit, I bought my PH2 Megadora for 4€/piece and I prefer the crystaline hard handles which are about 3€ per piece on Japanese Amazon (shipping was 15€ but combined with a bunch of other stuff). I also have some Power grip Vessel screwdrivers, their top line models, which are around 7-9€ per screwdriver.

I bet the Power Grip would withstand his tests way better, they're the most beefy screwdrivers I've ever seen. But I grab the crystaline most often cause of that too.

If you get 6 Milwaukee screwdrivers for 20$, that's a good deal also at around 3€/screwdriver. They seem nice (forged hex is unusual...). But I know I'd hate those handles!

PF is nice to watch but his prices are usually way off, especially for imported tools. Whole set of PB Swiss is 40€ on German Amazon right now, 50€ delivered to me. Those Milwaukee screwdrivers would end up costing me about the same if I bought them here!

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B001D2Q8FA/

I'm sure that if you search a bit, you can get the PB Swiss for comparable prices in the US too. For people in Germany they cost about 6-7€ each.


Edit:
Yeah 48$ on amazon.com... PF paid 91$ for the soft grip handle version which IMO is worse to own anyway.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081MN868Z/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Do you think Milwaukee is the best for the money if the PB Swiss only costs 1$ or 1.5$ more per screwdriver (if they aren't on that 20$ sale)?

 

[Bubba Fett]

I have Vessel drivers in my Amazon wish list. I totally don't need them, but I'll probably get them at some point.

 

[seber]

I think the Snap-on handle debate is funny. I own both the original hard handle set and the Instinct set. I find them both useful depending on the situation. High torque goes to Instinct every time. Just messing around with lots of screws means the hard handle. They do different things. I doubt there are many on here who own only one set of screwdrivers. In my case, I have at least six full sets plus a lot of oddballs. Still, the SO are what I grab first.

 

[Brownsfan]

I have snap on and many others. But the German made Matco are my absolute favorite of all time. Phillips tips are amazing

 

[ecotec]

I have Snap-on, Williams, CATERPILLAR, Wiha, Wera, Klein, Vessel, Hozan, Matco… and a few others…

I like the Snap-on/Williams/CAT hard handles for home and Klein for at work (electrical).

I really dislike acetate hard handles like Masterforce or Craftsman.

 

[dnschmidt]

Vessel and of course TOPTUL. Both use the new DIN/JIS standard and both work great in my experience. Flat blades are basically pry bars as Fed remarked and TOPTUL's thru handles are extremely good for that purpose. Hell, even Eric O. can't kill them which is a very bold statement as I'm telling you he could break and anvil.

 

[Kuma601]

I've not had to gorilla brute force the fasteners I work with. The Felo phillips work well though I tend to grab the Vessel P#2 Jaws fit the most for delaing with screws on the car. The PB Swiss and Wiha would be tempting. As mentioned above, buying sets for me is wasteful. That results in plenty of small pry bars with the slotted drivers. The only slotted I tend to use with frequency is the 1/8x.03" on sprinkler heads.

 

[bigfunwmu]

...

E.g. he measured max force for flat tips before twisting. I've never twisted a flat blade by hand - only if I've done something obviously abusive like prying or using some locking pliers to twist like crazy. ....

I absolutely have twisted flat blade screw drivers by hand, on flat blade style fasteners, without pliers, without prying. I have done this on bit drivers in straight handles with several different bit brands, and on screw drivers Craftsman, Horrible Freight, and other brands too. I HATE straight slotted fasteners on old POS equipment that hasn't been apart in decades. I have broken a bunch of bits, they're cheaper and easier to buy in batches and throw away to keep a decent edge vs replacing a whole screw driver.

Tip geometry, material hardness, handle geometry and grip strength play a role in determining if twisting a screwdriver is possible or not. Round smooth handles and the tips can't twist because there is no way to grip them hard enough to do it.