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The Lugzsonian - A Virtual Tour

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Private Lugnutz

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Private Lugnutz - that machete is very cool. How do you look wearing a sombrero and a couple bandoliers?
Like a 100% Slavic person dressed up like Pancho Villa for Halloween! :lol:
Here is my impression of that idea
The Curator has been "posterized" before, but that was by his kids playing one on one in the driveway. Love it. Just in time for the Day of the Dead! :)
I concur with the “critic”. By comparison, car nuts know that larger disc brakes work better because 1) larger swept volume provides larger friction surface and 2) act as a better heat sink.
Yeah, yeah. You, the Critic, and the Retired Chem Teach, who gave the Curator a silent E for Effort. In the Curator's defense, he did point out the differences as a flaw, and is working with the Acquisitions Dept (two skulls are better than one) to identify items of copper and aluminum in comparable mass to the machete guard from within the Lugzsonian, the Curator's Quarters, or the garage before he has to spend $10 and send the Acquisitions Dept out to buy a little plastic eyedropper silver test kit.
 
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gearhead1960

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Like a 100% Slavic person dressed up like Pancho Villa for Halloween! :lol:

The Curator has been "posterized" before, but that was by his kids playing one on one in the driveway. Love it. Just in time for the Day of the Dead! :)

Yeah, yeah. You, the Critic, and the Retired Chem Teach, who gave the Curator a silent E for Effort. In the Curator's defense, he did point out the differences as a flaw, and is working with the Acquisitions Dept (two skulls are better than one) to identify items of copper and aluminum in comparable mass to the machete guard from within the Lugzsonian, the Curator's Quarters, or the garage before he has to spend $10 and send the Acquisitions Dept out to buy a little plastic eyedropper silver test kit.
I would also agree that it points to being silver even if the testing is not up to ISO 9000… Thinking back to the time period this relic emanated from, silver would have been the material of choice. Silver was also relatively abundant given the history of the area…. Not that this statement is coming from an “ Expert”.
 
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Private Lugnutz

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The Curator gives up, big time, conceding that mass has much more of an effect than composition than even his self-incriminating flaw suspected. He just repeated the experiment with substantial 8" AMPCO BeCu lineman's pliers and a 1941 U.S. aluminum canteen cup, and the machete guard finished in 3rd place. The Acquisitions Dept is looking at him like, 'Just buy the ******* silver test kit, skinflint.'
 
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Private Lugnutz

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I'm going to drop the 3rd person for this story, guys. It's too good for the curator schtick.

Just got back from an upscale jeweler's called Leonardo's in Red Bank, NJ, which is this hip little town down the road from me. The little repair shop called Gem of an Idea in the town where I live closed during the pandemic apparently, and I had my doubts when I walked in with the machete wrapped tightly in cloth under my arm. Wealthy ladies wearing fake hair, fake nails, and more gold than Montezuma were browsing well-lit cases. A lady behind the counter came over and I asked her if there was a jeweler on the premises. I said I didn't want to alarm her, described what I had and why I was there, and unwrapped it enough to show her. She said, "We have just the man," and told me to wrap that back up and disappeared down some stairs.

A few minutes later this aging hermit with skin the color of old leather and multiple hinged-lens jewelers' glasses on his head emerged in the doorway and came over.

I repeated part of my story and revealed a little of the machete and his eyes lit up and he immediately beckoned me to give it to him despite and completely ignoring the lady's misgivings about unwrapping it in the store. Before he even inspected the blade he was saying the inscription to the lady in Spanish and he became so visibly and verbally overcome with emotion that the lady put her hand on his arm and asked him if he was okay. She looked even warier as he took it by the handle and brandished it exactly like a weapon but under perfect control, not striking motions, like drill & ceremony motions, with a few quick deft moves, blade straight down, and in broken English started telling a story about his grandfather fighting fourteen men. I can't begin to describe with how much poetry he was re-telling this story, describing the men falling to the floor one by one as he searched our faces to see if we believed him or not. Without shame I tell you that I started to tear up myself. There I was standing in cargo shorts, shitkickers and a t-shirt in a wealthy jewelry store listening to a 4'11" inch guy who they keep down in the shop cleaning and fixing wealthy people's jewelry talk about his grandfather fighting in the Mexican Revolution. He obviously hadn't seen one in years. I wasn't sure if he was with revolutionary or counter-revolutionary forces. It was hard to follow, but clearly involved Bueanvista de Cuellar. When I mentioned Museo Toma de la Zacatecas, he said, Si, Si, norte. It was very clear that he was insisting on me knowing the significance of what I had and how there were very few men who know how to really handle a machete correctly.

When the moment passed I asked about the pommel and guard and he immediately said, "Aluminium." Not aluminum, but the element name.

I asked if he was sure, and he said he was, but said he would take it down to his shop and asked my permission to make a small scratch and showed me where he would do it. I said something about an acid test and he just made a scowl.

The lady and I looked at each other and she said she had never seen him like this before.

He came back up and said again, "Aluminium."

When I said that was disappointing, that it was probably a replica, then, not real (my Spanish is not good, so I was searching for the right word to get my point across), he finally understood my concern and shook his head back and forth violently, like I was an idiot, like I was besmirching the memory of his grandfather, saying, "genuino, autentico". Holding it out with two hands and bending it. "Excellence," he said, in English. I asked if he was saying that they were casting aluminum around the steel tang at that time and he said yes.

Oh, and I'm home, but the machete is still there. He wouldn't let me leave with the nicks in it. He insisted on fixing them and sharpening the blade.

"Muchas gracias," I said, and when he went back downstairs to his shop, the lady told me he had been with them for 40 years and nobody in the entire outfit, not even "Leo" himself, which I take it is the "Leonardo" in the store name, knew more about precious metals and gems than him.

His name was Jose.

Last thing I expected when I drove down there. Still can't believe it happened.
 
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for real?
Swear. to. God. I still can't get over it. Told Mrs. Lugz. Called my sons. Had to take a walk so I could run into someone else to tell! HAHA. I wish you guys could've seen the look on the lady's face when he was telling the story of how many men his grandfather killed. Not "many." Not "a dozen." He was very specific. How many times do you think the guy has been even called up to the showroom? I am guessing if more than once, you could count it on one hand. I still can't believe it. I still can't believe the lady went to get him! I was obviously not going to be a paying customer. HAHA! I guess the machete and my story and just the extraordinary circumstances was compelling enough to move her, and of course she knew he was Mexican. Understand there were customers browsing in the shop the entire time. Like, high heels wearing customers.
maybe you should seriously consider getting that into a museum, if it's the genuine article.
Um, I'm going to pretend you didn't say that. o_O (And don't say you mean "a real museum." :lol:)
I nominate that for Picker Story (with backstory and follow through) Story of the Year.
Haha. I don't think there is such a thing, but I appreciate it, Shifty.
 

four.cycle

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Yeah, I did say it, notwithstanding my trust level of anything south of San Antonio is less than zero.
Although.... dealing with museums and curators can be a challenge - we uncovered a bronze plaque while emptying out my mother's house when she moved - an item that was supposed to have been affixed to a granite pedestal upon which a sculpture was mounted - and I could not get anybody's attention. It wasn't ambivalence - it was complete indifference, which really puzzled me. I think it's still buried in the kitchen somewhere.

Either way - it's beyond cool, particularly if you've got a story behind it.
 

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gearhead1960

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So, I'm going to be the bad egg here and :monkey_pi on your parade.... While I know the aging hermit means well by wanting to fix the scratch and sharpen the blade, and I'm sure it's too late to stop him, it might potentially harm the value of the machette. Usually, items like this are valued better in found condition, especially if the "fixes" don't get done right or are botched....just sayin'...:devilish:
 
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Private Lugnutz

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Any idea how many of these still exist?
No. Or how many were made and by whom. I really need to hear from the museum.
Yeah, I did say it, notwithstanding my trust level of anything south of San Antonio is less than zero.
I was joking, 4.c. I was feigning insult about you not considering the Lugzsonian a museum, that being the whole theme of my basement and this thread.
 
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Private Lugnutz

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I'm aware of that, @gearhead1965. I emphasized a light touch just to minimize the two minor notches, and he understood. I trust him. Besides, I'm not that concerned about value. While information is sparse, and I'm still not sure what I have here, I don't think this is going to be like finding Ben Franklin's eyeglasses. I'm guessing 1914 or so, and there could hundreds of them around. But thanks for your caution. No worries.
 

gearhead1960

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I'm aware of that, @gearhead1965. I emphasized a light touch just to minimize the two minor notches, and he understood. I trust him. Besides, I'm not that concerned about value. While information is sparse, and I'm still not sure what I have here, I don't think this is going to be like finding Ben Franklin's eyeglasses. I'm guessing 1914 or so, and there could hundreds of them around. Bit thanks for your caution. No worries.
Yeah, I’ll take those 5 years you just gave me….. I figured you weren’t concerned, but just wanted to bring up the point. I only hope it turns out to be 1 of 2 surviving examples :D
 

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Whoa... That's the most incredible story of chance and good fortune that I've heard in a good long time.
Sometimes the stars align just right and shine bright upon you.
Seriously, that's some good fortune to find José hiding in the basement of a jewelry store in Jersey!
 

steaks&anvils

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<snip>

When I said that was disappointing, that it was probably a replica, then, not real (my Spanish is not good, so I was searching for the right word to get my point across), he finally understood my concern and shook his head back and forth violently, like I was an idiot, like I was besmirching the memory of his grandfather, saying, "genuino, autentico". Holding it out with two hands and bending it. "Excellence," he said, in English. I asked if he was saying that they were casting aluminum around the steel tang at that time and he said yes.

Oh, and I'm home, but the machete is still there. He wouldn't let me leave with the nicks in it. He insisted on fixing them and sharpening the blade.

"Muchas gracias," I said, and when he went back downstairs to his shop, the lady told me he had been with them for 40 years and nobody in the entire outfit, not even "Leo" himself, which I take it is the "Leonardo" in the store name, knew more about precious metals and gems than him.

His name was Jose.

Last thing I expected when I drove down there. Still can't believe it happened.
So glad it turned out to be authentic! and it came into the possession of a guy who will respect it and give it a nice place to retire in too!

FYI at one time, aluminum was a rare metal and was quite valuable. Not like that cheap silver ****. :lol_hitti
 

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So glad it turned out to be authentic! and it came into the possession of a guy who will respect it and give it a nice place to retire in too!

FYI at one time, aluminum was a rare metal and was quite valuable. Not like that cheap silver ****. :lol_hitti
Yeah, I remembered that prior to a couple of fellows inventing an entirely new process for refining Aluminum, it was actually more precious than gold. But by the time of the Mexican Revolution 1910-1920 or so, Aluminum was cheap.
I suppose the balance of the machete would be much different with heavy silver compared to light Aluminum. Silver is much more dense compared to Silver. And Silver is more malleable which might be bad for weaponry. If both Aluminum and Silver were available at no cost to the craftsman who made those weapons, the Aluminum might be preferred in order to shift the center of gravity closer to the end of the blade.
 
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Private Lugnutz

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But by the time of the Mexican Revolution 1910-1920 or so, Aluminum was cheap.
And plentiful. And, most significantly, the guard and pommel on the stacked leather washer handled machete on exhibit at Museo Toma de la Zacatecas, does look to be aluminum as well.

Museo Machete.jpg

But I really need to find out more. Jose's reaction was passionate. I need me some facts. Still no word from the Curador.

Thanks, @Old Radar, @Username already in use, and @Smokeshow69
 
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Private Lugnutz

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What are the odds, walked into the right jewelry store with that machete?
Right? And I wasn't even planning on going to Leonardo's. I was looking for one called Goldtinker. I had driven the opposite way to the Goldtinker in Rumson, and that was now some boozhy clothing boutique. So I googled again and saw there was a Goldtinker on West Front Street in Red Bank. I figured they had moved. I really hate going into Red Bank. They closed Broad Street during the pandemic so the restaurants could stay open, putting all their tables and chairs outside in the street. It was so successful and so popular, they made it permanent. With all the lights in the trees it's quite nice - almost European, but traffic *****. Anyway, couldn't find it. Went around again and just started looking. Took one look at Leonardo's (think 5th Avenue, Beverly Hills, etc) and thought, 'No way they're going to offer to put a drop of nitric acid on my machete,' but parked and went in anyway.
 

steaks&anvils

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The machete. Here is a worthpoint listing of the same machete, except the seller identifies a horse? No help on provenance from this listing though.

Engravings are the same, as is the damage/hole at the end of the pommel. The engravings look like they are done a series of "blocks", that indicates some level of reproduction? Could be it was "standard issue"?


1635399360044.png1635399409132.png
 

Shiftless

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I don’t have a Worthpoint subscription. One of the regular readers of this thread probably does and can advise Lugz about comparable sales.

A guy could hang that machete from the ceiling point down over his favorite chair to keep things from getting too comfortable. :)
 

steaks&anvils

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I don’t have a Worthpoint subscription. One of the regular readers of this thread probably does and can advise Lugz about comparable sales.

A guy could hang that machete from the ceiling point down over his favorite chair to keep things from getting too comfortable. :)
I don't have a subscription either. I just use the site to get information to use to further research of an item.

As for comparable, there are tons of ebay listing of similar machetes. Items with different designs on the guards/pommels/etchings but otherwise very much a like.

Regardless of how rare or not the machete is, it's a cool looking item and definitely has some history worth preserving.
 
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Private Lugnutz

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I don’t have a Worthpoint subscription.
I used to and found it not worth the fee. 90% of their reports came from eBay. I can get those myself for free from the eBay Advanced Search function checking 'Sold'. My interest was other public auctions and they just didn't have a way to scrape those very well. It would be interesting to see if someone with an active subscription could even find a record of one being sold. He'd probably have to sift through hundreds of other machetes, and most of them not vintage or antique. Machetes and bolos from the Americas and Asia are a big collectible.
...and can advise Lugz about comparable sales.
I'm really not interested in determining a value, even if it turns out to be rare, but the curador at Zacatecas remains my best source for that kind of info. Otherwise, the way I would do it would be to find comparable machetes (in age, in type - i.e., other military campaigns, etc), even on other continents, because in several days of fairly active searching, the only other example of a machete that I have found with all the same features of mine (eagle shaped pommel, stacked leather washer handle, guard of same material as pommel, and 18" classic blade with that inscription) is the specimen in exhibit at Zacatecas.

There are other Mexican machetes, some with other slogans, some with eagle head pommels that appear to be the same age, and the exact or very similar slogan is found on other edged weapons. But no other machetes exactly like those two. So far. If you know anything about edged weapons, features matter, because to the uninitiated, they all look "similar."

Googling is like digging 2 feet down in the sand and finding two trinkets, three coins, and a busted toy. Anyone can do it. You can't point to one of the coins and say 'bullion' because it's on a beach without doing more research, which is why I dislike, never provide, and consider hasty google findings on the vintage tool board annoying.

What is the significance of the eagle head? Of the slogan? Where does it come from? Can it be chronologically and geographically isolated to the Mexican Revolution? And even so, has it been "Don't Tread on Me'd" into commonality? What is the distinction in time and geography between Mexican machetes with wooden, bone, and stacked leather washer handles? Etc.

These are just some of the kinds of things I am reading on my own, for now, about my find. It's not a sprint. It's a 1500m while reading a book.
 
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leg17

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What are the odds, walked into the right jewelry store with that machete? I think you made Jose’s day as much as it made yours!
You must be living right!

Lugz what a great day for you both. That thing could be common as kraut, but that day is a memory keeper. AWESOME.
 

gearhead1960

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The Curator has a full day ahead of him, because the Acquisitions Dept made off like a bandit at the flea market this morning. But he did pay another visit to Jose, whose complexion and stature may have been exaggerated by the impact of his story and the entire episode on the Curator! :)

20211029_100933.jpg
Now we know where Mrs. Lugz Christmas present will be coming from this year.....
 

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I wish! Me and my disposable income had no business stepping through that door! :)
I had the same problem when I stepped through the door of Wayne Carini’s F40 sales showroom in Portland CT. Those cars were so out of my league that I didn’t have to agonize at all.
 

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