Discovered this dishwasher connection

[dwasifar]

Wife's daughter lives about 90 minutes away; I was talking her through installing a replacement dishwasher. Replacement had a cord attached, but no receptacle at the site, so I had to talk her through how to remove the cord and hardwire to the replacement dishwasher's box.

When she pulled out the old unit she discovered it was connected thusly:



So much wrong here. No box; no ground connection; using the red for hot and capping the black; hot circuit with open wire nuts just lying on the floor in a potential water-leak area.

Why do people do stupid **** like this? Do they want a house fire?

 

[rlitman]

...Why do people do stupid **** like this?...

Because appliance delivery often comes with "installation".

 

[stonesfan68]

I’ve seen all kinds of **** like that in several of the houses that I’ve owned and it is indeed a miracle that there aren’t more electrical fires every year.

 

[Bad Habit]

Looks like the ground was in a water droplet, so there's that.

Using the red is fine, hot is any color other than green white, or gray.

 

[Shiftless]

Worse than that, when we first moved into our house almost 40 years ago, the stove was wired up just like that. 240 volts makes it even more dangerous.

 

[Forgottonia]

Yikes! Maybe you should have a look behind some of the other appliances. lol

 

[Bogie1632]

Mine was wired that way, albeit the correct wires and ground were nutted. They were kind enough to zip tie it to my brass (yes, brass) vent stack, right below where water could leak to. Found it during my current remodel.

It was done by a pair of subs that frequently work with my wife's employer(fancy custom home builder/remodeler). Took a couple pics and told her to let their super know that wasn't kosher. He was not pleased and has apologized quite a few times when I see him.

V/R
Bogie

 

[rd65]

We (ok, he (FIL), I was just the laborer LOL) replaced one of our water heaters, there are 2 gas water heaters. When we pulled it down there was about 3' of live romex hanging out of the wall. It was folded over but had raw ends where cut. The cool thing was that it was it's own 15 amp circuit, breaker was marked "laundry room iron". It is now the outlet that I plug heavy draw items; air compressor, saws, etc. into so that I dont trip the breaker that the garage freezer and refer are plugged in to.
I have since found another length of live romex hanging under the house. I have taped that up so that it is safe down there.

 

[dwasifar]

Looks like the ground was in a water droplet, so there's that.

Using the red is fine, hot is any color other than green white, or gray.

True, but why, when the black is available?

The black could have been hot too, I don't know. She doesn't have a tester or a meter or anything like that, so I told her to just leave the black capped, and in the final installation the red is still hot. At least now the connections are protected in the box, and the ground is attached. Out of curiosity I'm gonna have a look inside the service panel when I get down there one day.

 

[dwasifar]

Yikes! Maybe you should have a look behind some of the other appliances. lol

Maybe I should have you do it. Living in Forgottonia, you might be closer to her than I am.

 

[Meursault74]

When I replaced my dishwasher I found the wires from the wall (solid) and the wires from the machine (stranded) had simply been twisted together and covered with electrical tape. No wire nuts, no clamp, just on the floor. They were well twisted and had lots of electrical tape.



I put the new machine in and correctly used wire nuts. The new machine had it's own box where the connections where to be made. I also used a stress relief clamp.

 

[Bad Habit]

True, but why, when the black is available?

The black could have been hot too, I don't know. She doesn't have a tester or a meter or anything like that, so I told her to just leave the black capped, and in the final installation the red is still hot. At least now the connections are protected in the box, and the ground is attached. Out of curiosity I'm gonna have a look inside the service panel when I get down there one day.

They just used a 3 conductor romex, probably what they had on hand. May not even go all the way back to the panel.

 

[dwasifar]

They just used a 3 conductor romex, probably what they had on hand. May not even go all the way back to the panel.

Probably doesn't, but again, why use the red and neglect the black? It may not be objectively wrong, but it's just so random and haphazard.

 

[yatg]

A lot of houses used a MWBC for the dishwasher/disposer. Maybe the disposer was using the black wire and they used red to match the original feed cable.

 

[rburke65]

Just a personal selection…red or black…no difference

 

[theoldwizard1]

When I remodeled my daughter's kitchen a few years ago, I put a 14 AWG 3 wire pigtail on both the dishwasher and garbage disposer. Then I mounted a standard outlet box for each. Of course the one for the disposer was switched.

 

[nadogail]

Sometimes appliances are installed by ignorant people with good intentions.

 

[Innovate1]

Sometimes appliances are installed by ignorant people with good intentions.

How do you know they had good intentions?

 

[ArcReactorKC]

Probably doesn't, but again, why use the red and neglect the black? It may not be objectively wrong, but it's just so random and haphazard.

No it's neither wrong, or haphazard to use the red wire. In commercial construction you will see that all 240v single phase A phase is BLACK, B phase is RED. In 3 phase it would be BLACK RED BLUE.

Now I don't know for a fact that red is on the B phase but regardless you are hung up on something that is neither a code violation or incorrect workmanship.

The lack of a box and all the other things however... pretty damn bad.

 

[rancherbill]

Is hardwiring a dishwasher to current code? Hardwiring is just a recipe for disaster in installation and operation.

EDIT
I just looked at Canadian Code and since 2012 it is required and the US code is usually the same.

 

[FMB4]

OT a bit, but back in '01 we bought a moderately priced house in a clean subdivision (built in '92 IIRC). Place had ceiling fans in all 3 bdrms and the family room. Wife mentioned to owner that 'she liked the fans' (note never say that you like anything when looking at a house you're thinking buying).

Owner/seller said thanks , my Dad installed them. I later realized the this guy installed the fans without using any junctions boxes (wire nutted connections were covered with blown-in attic insulation). The really sad thing was the the owner sort of boasted about how her father was a building 'safety inspector' for the city.

 

[Meursault74]

Is hardwiring a dishwasher to current code? Hardwiring is just a recipe for disaster in installation and operation.

EDIT
I just looked at Canadian Code and since 2012 it is required and the US code is usually the same.

I think here in the US it can be either. The machine I bought didn't come with a cord and you need to buy one if you have to plug it in. Funny enough the delivery guys gave me a cord. I told them I didn't order it and I was connecting it to hard wire. they just said take it anyway as they couldn't keep it. They seemed surprised that it was hard wired and that I was doing it myself.

If I ever change this machine out, I'd likely run the wires to the adjacent cabinet and attach them to an outlet. If the machine malfunctions, then I can unplug it. Right now I'd have to shut off the breaker, which of course I didn't label. I didn't think about this at the time. The previous machine was hardwired, so I did the same with the new one. I would think that with an outlet it would be easier for most people but more expensive.

 

[dscheidt]

No it's neither wrong, or haphazard to use the red wire. In commercial construction you will see that all 240v single phase A phase is BLACK, B phase is RED. In 3 phase it would be BLACK RED BLUE.

Now I don't know for a fact that red is on the B phase but regardless you are hung up on something that is neither a code violation or incorrect workmanship.

The lack of a box and all the other things however... pretty damn bad.

 

[rancherbill]

Right now I'd have to shut off the breaker, which of course I didn't label. I didn't think about this at the time. The previous machine was hardwired, so I did the same with the new one. I would think that with an outlet it would be easier for most people but more expensive.

hahaha

Deja vu all over again.

I did this years ago and changed to a plug and haven't looked back.

 

[dscheidt]

No it's neither wrong, or haphazard to use the red wire. In commercial construction you will see that all 240v single phase A phase is BLACK, B phase is RED. In 3 phase it would be BLACK RED BLUE.

In Chicago, residential is done the same way. There are conventions about colors for switch legs and three way travellers. (Everything is conduit, remember, so not limited to what comes in the cable color box.). Not following that is a sign the work was done by someone who doesn't have any business doing it, and it's probably done wrong.

 

[Innovate1]

Could be worse. I had a house that had 3 fuse panels. Never really thought about the wiring much as we were going to redo it. Ended up tearing it down and replacing the whole building and when we tore down the wall I found a clamped and taped splice buried in the wall between the meter and the fuse boxes. That's where the feed fanned out to the three boxes.

 

[tyme2par4]

I've got one better on my dishwasher.
When I bought the house I bought a new dishwasher, as the existing one was pretty trashed. Pulled the old one out and noticed something looked funny. When the kitchen was remodeled, they didn't bother to relocate the hydronic baseboard plumbing, just left the fin tube under the cabinet. The kicker was that the pipe extended about 6 inches into the dishwasher cavity. So whoever installed the dishwasher hacked apart the metal frame and pieced it together with some scrap steel and a 4x4 block of wood.
So my 30 minute job of replacing a dishwasher turned into a 4 hour job of my dad and I removing the old radiator tube and installing a toe kick heater just so I could install a dishwasher.

 

[rlitman]

... When the kitchen was remodeled, they didn't bother to relocate the hydronic baseboard plumbing, just left the fin tube under the cabinet...

I've got a section of fin tube hidden behind a bathtub like that.

 

[rancherbill]

I think here in the US it can be either. (relating to hardwiring or installing a receptacle)

According to GJ Code it has to be done right at the highest level. You know garages, for example, that start as 24x24 get upgraded to 30x40 and made taller for a lift someday, to conform to GJ Code.

hahaha

 

[egdede]

A lot of houses used a MWBC for the dishwasher/disposer. Maybe the disposer was using the black wire and they used red to match the original feed cable.

Definitely done like this in CA for the post WWII boom houses.

 

[TRWham]

Is hardwiring a dishwasher to current code? Hardwiring is just a recipe for disaster in installation and operation.

EDIT
I just looked at Canadian Code and since 2012 it is required and the US code is usually the same.

Effectively no. Once you satisfy the need for a disconnect within sight and GFCI, we find it easier just to power the dishwasher via a receptacle under the sink. See Article 422 for details.

 

[stroked93]

guilty.