hi-lift garage door help

[arjog]

Hey guys. I'm in the process of converting my standard garage door to a hi-lift door (to take advantage of my 11.5' ceiling and eventually put in a lift). I am planning on doing the work myself and ordered a LM 3800 jackshaft opener last night. I still need to size my new drums, cables and springs.

I was planning on reusing the radius tracks that I have, but got to thinking about it and am now not sure if I can. I believe that the tracks that I have are 90 degree bends. I think that with most hi-lift applications, the track is bent slightly at the top of the opening to clear the weatherstrip and then goes upwards at a slight slope to the ceiling. For this geometry, I believe the radius bends would need to be at some angle greater than 90 degrees. Correct? Can I heat and slightly bend mine? Or do I just need to buy new ones? Or am I not thinking of something? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[1320stang]

I'd think you could cut yours and drill to put the straight piece between the two bends.

 

[arjog]

That might be an option. After thinking about it and looking at some pics on-line, I think I might be crazy anyway. I'm not sure if the bend is a 90 or not. It might actually be greater than that now to clear the drums and torsion bar. I'll have to go home over lunch to check it out...

 

[Ironcrow]

Yeah, just cut the 90 degree sweeps. If the upper part of the vertical track is tipped back, say, 5 degrees...just take 5 degrees, a couple of inches, off the 90 degree sweeps.

 

[bmwpower]

I didn't have to replace or cut my radius pieces on my attached garage. I just removed the radius/horizontal and added a straight piece, then attached the radius/horizontal back on.

Lousy picture, but you get the idea. The thing is you're not pulling the track far away from the wall where you're going to induce a change in angle. The straight piece is tilted just slightly back away from the door.

 

[Junkman]

When you installed the higher tracks, why didn't you go all the way to the ceiling with them?

 

[1320stang]

When you installed the higher tracks, why didn't you go all the way to the ceiling with them?

 

[bmwpower]

When you installed the higher tracks, why didn't you go all the way to the ceiling with them?

You forgot already? You've only been away a couple weeks, man!

Because going higher means I couldn't use a trolly opener without having to add additional door sections above each door. I didn't want to spend the extra $*** it would cost for a couple more sections of door nor did I want to pay the extra $*** it would cost for jackshaft openers. (Read: I had wifey breathing down my neck)

Plus, from everyone's calculation I should be able to fit cars under it no problem when (if) I install a 4 post.

This was an exercise is budget garage outfitting.

 

[Sack]

I didn't have to replace or cut my radius pieces on my attached garage. I just removed the radius/horizontal and added a straight piece, then attached the radius/horizontal back on.

Lousy picture, but you get the idea. The thing is you're not pulling the track far away from the wall where you're going to induce a change in angle. The straight piece is tilted just slightly back away from the door.

I have 2 guys out in my garage installing the exact same setup right now. They have frickin been here all day and aren't even close to being done. I had them take mine all the way up to about 9" from the 11'-2" ceiling.

 

[bmwpower]

I have 2 guys out in my garage installing the exact same setup right now. They have frickin been here all day and aren't even close to being done. I had them take mine all the way up to about 9" from the 11'-2" ceiling.

Yea, I think mine is about 10' 8" high.

Took me several days to complete. Didn't think I could do it, but I did. I'm no longer scared of garage doors thanks to Jimmy.

 

[Junkman]

OK...... I'm old and senile, not to mention forgetful. Now, what were we talking about???? Be right back, I need to go take my meds.....

 

[pwm72]

I just had this done to my garage door. The company put on a wider radius track to get the door higher (closer to the ceiling). They installed a new torsion spring/drum and installed a LiftMaster 3800 jackshaft opener. Fantastic unit. I was debating beteen it or the Wayne Dalton iDrive, but I think I made the right choice withe the LiftMaster. I can take some pics and post them up tomorrow. The company had the door raised and jackshaft opener installed on the one door and the traditional belt drive opener installed on the other door in less than 3 hours time. Much faster then if I had done it myself.

 

[nova65ss]

I just had this done to my garage door. The company put on a wider radius track to get the door higher (closer to the ceiling). They installed a new torsion spring/drum and installed a LiftMaster 3800 jackshaft opener. Fantastic unit. I was debating beteen it or the Wayne Dalton iDrive, but I think I made the right choice withe the LiftMaster. I can take some pics and post them up tomorrow. The company had the door raised and jackshaft opener installed on the one door and the traditional belt drive opener installed on the other door in less than 3 hours time. Much faster then if I had done it myself.

Do you know how many inches of lift they added to the door? Thanks,

Jimmy

 

[pwm72]

Sorry it has taken so long, but here are the pics of the LiftMaster 3800 install.

Jimmy, to answer your question, the increased radius on the large door ended up raising the door 22" higher than the door was originally.

In this first picture you can see the general height difference of the tracks.

in the next pic is the unit itself mounted.

Here is the new torsion bar and drums that they installed.

Here is a comparison of the radius of the tracks. You can see on the one door the radius is much tighter than on the revised track. A side benefit of the wider radius is a much smoother operating door.

And finally, that was pretty much as high as I could take the door as the master bedroom is directly overhead. As you can see, I have a ceiling beam to contend with.

I have to say that the unit operates wonderfully and is by far the most quietly operating door opener I have heard. All of my neighbors have Sears garage door openers or other similar brands and I can hear their doors opening with my windows shut. I can hardly hear this door opening at all...even when I am in my bedroom directly above!

Feel free to ask any other questions or request any other pics of specifics.

 

[nova65ss]

Thanks! I have one on my attached garage door they are great. Reason I asked was because we installed one several months ago that gave us fits because it had too much vertical lift. I was not happy.

Looks like they used 32" radius track on yours it gives you 2' of high lift. Looks good.


Oh and your pictures are a little crooked on the wall.


Jimmy

 

[bmwpower]

Jimmy, you think the bigger radius track would help a slightly jerky opening/closing door?

Or does it just make the door speed more consistant?

 

[nova65ss]

Jimmy, you think the bigger radius track would help a slightly jerky opening/closing door?

Or does it just make the door speed more consistant?

The 32r really isn't any different than standard radius track because the door starts its back travel as soon as it goes up. With your high lift it has to go up several inches or a foot can't remember, before it starts heading back. So what you end up with is a door trying to catch up with the drawbar on the opener. A sidemount opener will take care of that jerkiness because the door travels the same speed regardless of where it is because it is attached directly to the shaft. Make sense?

Jimmy

 

[pwm72]

Thanks! I have one on my attached garage door they are great. Reason I asked was because we installed one several months ago that gave us fits because it had too much vertical lift. I was not happy.

Looks like they used 32" radius track on yours it gives you 2' of high lift. Looks good.


Oh and your pictures are a little crooked on the wall.


Jimmy

You are exactly right Jimmy, I looked at my receipt and they did use a 32" radius.

 

[bmwpower]

The 32r really isn't any different than standard radius track because the door starts its back travel as soon as it goes up. With your high lift it has to go up several inches or a foot can't remember, before it starts heading back. So what you end up with is a door trying to catch up with the drawbar on the opener. A sidemount opener will take care of that jerkiness because the door travels the same speed regardless of where it is because it is attached directly to the shaft. Make sense?

Jimmy

Yep, makes sense.

 

[bmwpower]

pwm72,
If you can, I would plumb those rear supports. Should add strength and looks, no?

Will depend on your joists though.

 

[pwm72]

pwm72,
If you can, I would plumb those rear supports. Should add strength and looks, no?

Will depend on your joists though.

You know...I don't know why the installers did that. I wasn't home when they finished the job and my wife didn't really know any better. I just assumed there was a reason for it.
Anybody know of a reason why they would not be plumb?

 

[bmwpower]

You know...I don't know why the installers did that. I wasn't home when they finished the job and my wife didn't really know any better. I just assumed there was a reason for it.
Anybody know of a reason why they would not be plumb?

Cause it's more work. They have to get up there near the ceiling and find new locations for the lags. They need to make sure it's plumb, too. Takes time. But your joists look like they run parallel to the door, so it should be an easy fix.

Or if the door doesn't hit it when it in the up position, you can undo the bolt where the support meets the track, let the support hang plumb, drill a hole in the track and replace the bolt. Again, this will only work if your door isn't going to hit the bolt.

 

[nova65ss]

It's really not a big deal I wouldn't worry about it unless it just bothers you. I would have straightened it if it were me doing the work though just looks better. Only way I would of left it is if the ceilings were already painted and I didn't want to leave holes.

 

[427HISS]

I won't start another thread so, I have some dummy questions. I only,....have a single stall garage
I bought the MaxJax because my ceiling height is 9'. If I want to work on my 427 Cobra, I will either have to bolt down the lift nearly 2' from the front of my work bench (not gonna happen) or leave the door down. I don't want to do that because natural light is the best for me (only have one working eye) and I like to have the door open for the spring & fall temps to work in. It gets king of claustrophobic too.

Anyway, the rails are 12" from the ceiling and I'm wanting to get them closer so I can take full advantage of the lift. I guess I'm confused on how to achieve this by what I'm reading.

Can I buy just taller vertical rails and use my 90 degree horizontal rails or do I need all new one's ?

Do I need add another panel to my door ?

My spring hardware is bolted to the 2x10 header above the door and my drywall goes up to the ceiling so I can't see what's above it.

Will I have to add a new jack stud (like for windows) at the top of the ceiling to re-mount the hardware to ?

For relocating the spring, is it better to have a professional do it ?

I have no idea on what to expect for cost ?

I guess I'm asking, what do I need to do ? (please be genital) I don't learn well so, learn me. :tard:

 

[nova65ss]

I won't start another thread so, I have some dummy questions. I only,....have a single stall garage
I bought the MaxJax because my ceiling height is 9'. If I want to work on my 427 Cobra, I will either have to bolt down the lift nearly 2' from the front of my work bench (not gonna happen) or leave the door down. I don't want to do that because natural light is the best for me (only have one working eye) and I like to have the door open for the spring & fall temps to work in. It gets king of claustrophobic too.

Anyway, the rails are 12" from the ceiling and I'm wanting to get them closer so I can take full advantage of the lift. I guess I'm confused on how to achieve this by what I'm reading.

Can I buy just taller vertical rails and use my 90 degree horizontal rails or do I need all new one's ?

Do I need add another panel to my door ?

My spring hardware is bolted to the 2x10 header above the door and my drywall goes up to the ceiling so I can't see what's above it.

Will I have to add a new jack stud (like for windows) at the top of the ceiling to re-mount the hardware to ?

For relocating the spring, is it better to have a professional do it ?

I have no idea on what to expect for cost ?

I guess I'm asking, what do I need to do ? (please be genital) I don't learn well so, learn me. :tard:

I am going to stay away from the "genital" comment!





You can basically go as high as the spring will allow you to go. Just measure from the top of the spring plate to the ceiling and that will be the most you can go. Do you have an opener also? If so take away 3" or so for it.

If you only need to go less than 12" a taller vertical track will work but the cables will need to be longer. In regards to the spring, if you have never worked on one before I say call a professional but that is just me.

 

[427HISS]

I am going to stay away from the "genital" comment! (my wife said the same thing, but don't know why.


I need to correct myself big time, the rails are 24" from the ceiling not 12".
I don't think I'll get a door opener, it's only a single door.

Here's a couple of pic's.

 

[nova65ss]

I am going to stay away from the "genital" comment! (my wife said the same thing, but don't know why.


I need to correct myself big time, the rails are 24" from the ceiling not 12".
I don't think I'll get a door opener, it's only a single door.

Here's a couple of pic's.

Cool car!

You will just need to add some 2 x 6's to each side to the ceiling and one in the center to the ceiling for the spring. Just screw or nail them to the wall and they will be fine. Can't say what you should pay it will vary from 3-500 depending on who you call. It would need track extensions, cables, and drums, possibly a new spring.

 

[427HISS]

I'll call some garage door installers tomorrow and see what they have.
Thank you about the cobra. It will be in a up & coming magazine issue.
Loved building and driving it.

 

[Dolfan]

FunFur2, I think it is safe to say that if you built your Cobra replica yourself, I would think moving the garage door tracks/etc. up would not be the most difficult mechanical thing you have done. You do need to be very careful with the spring winding/unwinding but I'm guessing you could swing it.

Is that Cobra a Factory Five? I've got my eye on the FF Daytona Coupe, keep thinking about it.

 

[Dolfan]

I've got a question now after looking at the install with the jackshaft opener.

Since the jackshaft opener uses the bar and just rotates the shaft which pulls the door up the track instead of pulling the door from the top, does that mean that you could raise the tracks and not need an additional panel? I'm guessing that the only reason to add the panel is because you need to pull the door properly up to where the track begins to go horizontal. But if your not pulling at the top I guess the panel isn't needed.

Anyone?

 

[ket-tek]

I've got a question now after looking at the install with the jackshaft opener.

Since the jackshaft opener uses the bar and just rotates the shaft which pulls the door up the track instead of pulling the door from the top, does that mean that you could raise the tracks and not need an additional panel? I'm guessing that the only reason to add the panel is because you need to pull the door properly up to where the track begins to go horizontal. But if your not pulling at the top I guess the panel isn't needed.

Anyone?

You are correct. Additional panels are not needed when using a jackshaft/torsion opener.

 

[Dolfan]

Given that my current garage openers are 10yrs old, I think it would be smarter to pay $300 for a LM3800 jackshaft opener so I get a new opener and eliminate the cost of an extra panel that does nothing for me!

I think I might try to find a install company that would do the work of lifting the tracks for me but not install the openers, that I can do at my own pace. One of the bays is rarely opened.

 

[NJ Diver]

I was thinking of having this done rather than doing this one myself. Still not sure yet. My first estimate came back at $1,300 parts and labor.

Anyone else pay to have this done? If so, is this estimate in line with what you paid?

 

[lorne]

In MA, i paid 350 for parts and labor to convert to high lift. They wanted $550 tosupply and install a LM 3800 so I bought it online and installed it myself.
Lorne

 

[Dolfan]

Lorne, you say you did it yourself for $350? Did that include the new opener? If so that only leaves $50 for other parts? Did you need new radius track or other parts?

Can you explain your install?