want to convert t8's to l.e.d.'s
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Firebrick43
Well-known member
There are retrofit bulbs that don't need anything other than installing the bulb. These still use the ballast and as such don't save much in the way of electricity.
Then there are LEDs that wire directly to 120v. You need to rewire the fixture and remove the ballast during the rewire. There are two flavors, one style that wires the hot and neutral to one end and the other end has no electricty at the tombstone.
The other style one end is the hot and the other is the neutral. Some say this isn't as safe as you can have your hand on the neutral end pegs as you install it to the hot and twist it (without the end your hand is on being in the tombstone) Makes no sense to me. Sounds like someone dumb enough to shock themselves would be dumb enough to stick their fingers in a light socket or a butter knife in a receptacle.
I prefer the bulbs with hot on one end and neutral on the other. I use hyperkon bulbs bought in 12 packs from amazon. Have put up about 3 dozen so far and in the 5 years I have been using them I have not had one failure yet.
Then there are LEDs that wire directly to 120v. You need to rewire the fixture and remove the ballast during the rewire. There are two flavors, one style that wires the hot and neutral to one end and the other end has no electricty at the tombstone.
The other style one end is the hot and the other is the neutral. Some say this isn't as safe as you can have your hand on the neutral end pegs as you install it to the hot and twist it (without the end your hand is on being in the tombstone) Makes no sense to me. Sounds like someone dumb enough to shock themselves would be dumb enough to stick their fingers in a light socket or a butter knife in a receptacle.
I prefer the bulbs with hot on one end and neutral on the other. I use hyperkon bulbs bought in 12 packs from amazon. Have put up about 3 dozen so far and in the 5 years I have been using them I have not had one failure yet.
get ballast bypass bulbs and yank out the ballasts, rewire according to directions with the bulbs.
I've not seen hot one end & neutral the other, interesting. they are probably made for the shunted tombstones . if you have shunted tombstones and get the bulbs that are powered from one end, you'll need to change them with non shunted . in any event, it's a simple straight forward re-wire job.
I recently converted a bunch in a warehouse for a charity group I'm involved with. easy peasy
I've not seen hot one end & neutral the other, interesting. they are probably made for the shunted tombstones . if you have shunted tombstones and get the bulbs that are powered from one end, you'll need to change them with non shunted . in any event, it's a simple straight forward re-wire job.
I recently converted a bunch in a warehouse for a charity group I'm involved with. easy peasy
You have choices.
If you just want to change lamps, then look for something called a T8 LED replacement lamp. Other names that you might encounter are "plug and play" , "Type A" or a "ballasted tube". For these, you just change the lamps and you're done. Typically they run about 12 to 15 watts, but there are alot of other options if you want more or less light. These will save you just over 50% energy.
If you're able to bypass the existing ballast (it's pretty easy), then you should consider "bypass tubes" or "Type B" tubes. You'll have to do a little re-wiring, but nothing crazy. Most manufacturers only offer "double-end" powered tubes, which means that you'll bring the black supply wire to the sockets on one end of the fixture and the white supply wire to the sockets on the other end. There are a lot more choices in this style for watts and lumen output. You can make your space a LOT brighter with these if you want to, by using 18w or 20w tubes.
There is another kind of tube that's called a "dual mode" , "combo" or a "Type A/B". This will work either with or without the existing ballast. This kind of tube allows you to install them right away, and then bypass the ballast at your leisure.
Then, of course, you can always get entirely new fixtures.
Hope this helps. Ask any questions you want.
Good luck,
CD
Firebrick43
Well-known member
well that *****
Yeah, I really liked the LED tubes they sold. When I found out they were gone, it was a huge disappointment.
They were good quality and priced right.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Buy new LED fixtures. Not that expensive if you catch a sale and much easier !
sparky 1971
Well-known member
How do you figure it's easier to replace them? In the amount of time required to remove one of the existing fixtures, the whole thing can be retro fitted to an led. Then he has to get rid of the old fixtures. If he has a ceiling, it will show where the old fixtures were and look like ****. Also, the led fixtures that go on sale at the box stores are usually those junk plug in types, though not always. I'd stick with fluorescents before I used those as my main lighting.
and with replacing the entire fixture, when ( not if) the fixture fails , you need to replace it. I'd rather just replace a tube than the entire fixture.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
I am assuming it is an open rafter ceiling or the fixtures are mounted flush to the finished ceiling.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Depends how the original ones are installed b
sparky 1971
Well-known member
That doesn't make it easier. Converting an existing fixture to led takes 5-20 minutes. The 20 minute version would be transforming a fixture with two 8' tubes into one that uses four 4' tubes and with a little practice, that time can be cut to around 10-15. There's no way that swapping out fixtures is easier, and definitely not faster either. Especially when considering the time to open boxes and dispose of the trash.
nadogail
Well-known member
See the posting from Mike35
Thanks everyone. The lights are flush mounted to a dry walled ceiling. Would any of these be what I'm looking for? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CJLJ4NQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CT6Y7VD/?tag=atomicindus08-20
The Best Light Fixture Ever!
********************************************* Best bang for the buck LED 4ft 2-lamp strip light as of 5/17/2019: (UL Listings verified for all bulbs) To make one 4ft strip light, you need 2 LED Bulbs and 1 LED Ready Fixture Housing: LED BULBS LEDMyplace WEN-T8-4FT-18WF(4000K) 48" 18W LED T8...
www.garagejournal.com
the lamps, yes. The retrofit kit with sockets, etc....you probably dont need it.
Also, choose a CCT, either 4000K or 5000K. A quick visit to the big box store where they have many fixtures on display and you'll be able to see the difference.
CD
acer66
Well-known member
I would also just ditch the ballast and rewire the existing fixtures and buy a big box of replacement bypass tubes.
Was also bummed out about Hypericon going out of business.
Was also bummed out about Hypericon going out of business.
HoosierBuddy
Well-known member
My 2 cents as I'm working through this exact same process in my garage.
I first went with the LED tubes that can be installed directly. Super simple. Worked great. I bought enough LED's to do about 1/3 of my fixtures, as that's about how many T8's I had burnt out.
Fast forward about a year I got some more LED's and continued on. Then one day I'm out there and hear a "woosh" and look up and the magic smoke is leaving one of the ballasts in one of the fixtures I've already converted to LED's.
So then I either had to buy a ballast for LEDs (crazy)...or replace those LED's with ones that were set up for direct wire. So, I got some LED's that didn't require ballasts and rewired the fixture for those. Unfortunately, the color isn't the same even though they were both "daylight"....so that's kind of annoying.
Bottom line...I should have just started out removing ballasts, rewired the fixtures including replacing the shunt on one end rather than put LED's in with 15 year old ballasts that are bound to eventually fail. Live and learn.
Phil
I first went with the LED tubes that can be installed directly. Super simple. Worked great. I bought enough LED's to do about 1/3 of my fixtures, as that's about how many T8's I had burnt out.
Fast forward about a year I got some more LED's and continued on. Then one day I'm out there and hear a "woosh" and look up and the magic smoke is leaving one of the ballasts in one of the fixtures I've already converted to LED's.
So then I either had to buy a ballast for LEDs (crazy)...or replace those LED's with ones that were set up for direct wire. So, I got some LED's that didn't require ballasts and rewired the fixture for those. Unfortunately, the color isn't the same even though they were both "daylight"....so that's kind of annoying.
Bottom line...I should have just started out removing ballasts, rewired the fixtures including replacing the shunt on one end rather than put LED's in with 15 year old ballasts that are bound to eventually fail. Live and learn.
Phil
I bought a few things from hypericon once. The fixtures ranged from "fine" on the better ones to "disappointing". Their going out of business isn't a big loss. I made about 3 orders from them and decided not to get anything else.
Meursault74
Well-known member
for me I made the choice to switch when I installed my last Fluorescent tube. I would buy replacement locally
They're now $9.74 each bulb
Sylvania 60-Watt 8 ft. Linear Tube T8 Fluorescent Light Bulb Cool White (2-Pack) 22635 - The Home Depot
Light up your home with this beautiful look by installing this Sylvania Linear T Tube Light Bulb Cool White.
www.homedepot.com
I used these LED
comes out to $12.41 bulb. In some of my applications, one of the LED bulbs took the place of 2 Fluorescent bulbs, so it actually is cheaper to use these.
The LED put out more usable light and use less energy. I did drag my feet until I didn't have any more Fluorescent to replace so I do get where you're coming from.
I still have the unused ballast that I kept as a spare. Haven't gotten around to putting it on EBay. The rest of the Ballasts were working, but I put them out for Hazardous waste pick up.
Different strokes for different folks.
I don't find the led lighting that pleasant or able to make due with half the tubes. I'm not lighting my shop for enough periods for the savings to kick in on $3/lamp vs $12.
I gotta use this stuff up... I already have it.
Mag ballasts are worth a little scrap value; not haz waste if no PCB's.
I don't find the led lighting that pleasant or able to make due with half the tubes. I'm not lighting my shop for enough periods for the savings to kick in on $3/lamp vs $12.
I gotta use this stuff up... I already have it.
Mag ballasts are worth a little scrap value; not haz waste if no PCB's.
Oh I'm right there with you, no reason to fix it if it's not broke.
I usually save good solid stuff from jobs so that's where my fixtures come from. I generally look for stuff from the 70's or earlier
wolfhawk73
Well-known member
It's too easy just to remove the ballast and rewire the tombstones for LED tubes. I did both lights in my garage in 15 minutes.
exranger06
Well-known member
This is why I bought hybrid LED tubes that can work with or without a ballast. When one fluorescent tube burned out, I replaced just that one tube with an LED tube. I had a mixture of fluorescent and LEDs in the same fixture for a while. Then a ballast in one fixture failed. That fixture still had one good fluorescent tube in it at the time. I saved that tube and moved it to another fixture, did a ballast-bypass (removed ballast completely), and installed a new LED to replace the fluorescent tube. Now I never have to deal with another bad ballast in that fixture again. Eventually all the fluorescent tubes burned out and I'm 100% LED now. The ballast in the other fixture started making this annoying ringing sound whenever it was on, so I did a ballast bypass and removed it on that fixture too. The hybrid tubes allowed me to ditch fluorescents and ballasts without letting any good usable stuff go to waste.
Meursault74
Well-known member
I applaud your "frugalness", seriously. I could have done similarly when I made my switch, but I just wanted to do all the wiring at once. Quite frankly, I was sick of the ballast hum and tube disposal issues as well.
@exranger06 that's the path I'm on... eventually. Lots of T8 stuff to use up.
@Meursault74 T8 electronics don't hum or flicker like old mag ballasts. Fluorescent and LED disposal is the same here. I take both to the recycling depot for free disposal. Garbage OTOH is pay by the quantity.
@Meursault74 T8 electronics don't hum or flicker like old mag ballasts. Fluorescent and LED disposal is the same here. I take both to the recycling depot for free disposal. Garbage OTOH is pay by the quantity.
I buy all t8 tubes that don't need a ballast. I like single ended power in tubes. I also bought a bunch of new tombstones (the ends) but found I don't always need new ones. I rewire the fixture and just leave the ballast in. It's usually a simple re-wire job. Now, no more issues with stupid failing fluorescent tubes and no cold start problems!! And no ballast hum!
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
OP never said anything about 8' tubes. T8 is the tube diameter.
Remove old fixture. Install duplex adapter plate and outlet into existing octogan/round ceiling box. Hang new fixture (I did have to buy longer chain and hooks), plug in. You can daisy chain a ridiculous number of LED fixtures together.
Meursault74
Well-known member
I had T12, and they'd hum like they didn't know the words.
I had to store the 8ft Fluorescent tubes and set up a pick up with rest of household hazardous waste. I may have to do the same with the LED. I thought you could put them in the trash, but I looked it up and they don't want them there. At least They're not glass and they should last longer.
Oggy
Well-known member
I was debating on the ballast free, or the type that will run with it, I have a couple ballasts that are out though, so it sounds like I have my mind made up...
What's the best place to buy them? Apologies if I missed it...
What's the best place to buy them? Apologies if I missed it...
sparky 1971
Well-known member
And I didn't say he had 8' fixtures. Read my post again. My statement was that it takes 5 to 20 minutes to do an led conversion. 20 minutes being a beginner changing an 8' two lamp to four 4' lamps. Then I stated with practice, that time could be brought down to 10-15 minutes. What do you think the five minute conversion is? I'll answer for you. 4' fixtures. You made the wrong assumption that I don't know how to change a fixture. You, however, are clueless about converting a florescent to led tubes. Here's how it goes. 1) Remove florescent lamps 2) remove ballast cover 3) cut all the wires off of the ballast, remove the ballast(s) if you want 4) connect all the wires from the sockets at one end of the fixture to the hot, the other end to the neutral 5) reinstall the ballast cover 6) install led lamps. To convert an 8' two lamp to four 4' lamps involves assembling a conversion kit and that involves a little more time. Anyone, Forest Gump included, can do at least two conversions and more likely four to six in the amount of time it takes to take down a fixture, install the receptacle, and hang the new fixture. Then one has to get rid of the old fixture and all the boxes that the new fixtures came in. That's aside from the fact that the plug in lights you suggest are utter garbage. They make ok task lighting, but that's as far as it goes. Yes, several shop lights can be plugged in to each other, but all those cords hanging down looks ridiculous.
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By the time you have the old fixture taken down, I could have line voltage lamps installed and working...
Seriously doing what you suggest will take 2-3 times as long and in the end you will have a far worse product.
Plus, (at least where I live) ceiling receptacles would require GFCI protection, which would necessitate either a GFCI breaker or adding a GFCI receptacle somewhere. What a pain in the a**.
CD
Hi.
I'm going to convert Fluro to LED on T8 fixtures.
I'll remove ballast and re-wire tombstones.
Please take a look at photos and provide input on how to re-wire?
I'm thinking the tombstones that currently connect to ballast (red / blue wires) will now have no input
and
tombstones that have yellow / black will now be hot / neutral
but
not 100% certain how to wire the hot / neutral end (the current jumpers confuse me a bit).
Thank you
Craig
I'm going to convert Fluro to LED on T8 fixtures.
I'll remove ballast and re-wire tombstones.
Please take a look at photos and provide input on how to re-wire?
I'm thinking the tombstones that currently connect to ballast (red / blue wires) will now have no input
and
tombstones that have yellow / black will now be hot / neutral
but
not 100% certain how to wire the hot / neutral end (the current jumpers confuse me a bit).
Thank you
Craig
Option 1 (the most common): Cut the two yellow wires, connect them both to your supply's black.
Cut the two reds and the two blues, connect them all to your supply's white.
Make sure your LED tubes are "double-end" powered.
Option 2: Cut the two reds and two blues, connect one red and one blue to white. Connect the other red and the other blue to black. Cut and disregard all wires on the other end. Make sure your LED tubes are "single-end" powered.
CD
Cut the two reds and the two blues, connect them all to your supply's white.
Make sure your LED tubes are "double-end" powered.
Option 2: Cut the two reds and two blues, connect one red and one blue to white. Connect the other red and the other blue to black. Cut and disregard all wires on the other end. Make sure your LED tubes are "single-end" powered.
CD