Bathroom tile floor, snap, crackle, pop. Thoughts?

[joseywales]

The floor was installed a few years ago, but a general contractor, not a tile expert. Backerboard was laid down

Our water isn’t great, so we can see orange stains off it sits, and there orange in the grout line next to the toilet ring. I’ll pull the toilet this weekend and hopefully just have to replace the ring.

but if the water damaged the floor, wouldn’t I see water on the ceiling below by now?

the floor began popping more toward the center of the vanity first, then closer to the toilet and it now seems louder near the toilet. I’m getting a sick feeling about this. That double vanity is a ***** to move off this floor needs to be redone.

thoughts on how to diagnose? How to possibly repair, instead of replace?

 

[joseywales]

I’ll add, i can’t kneel for extended periods, so a tile guy we’ll have to deal with this. I’m wondering of cutting tile out only where the pops are makes sense, but can guess that depends on why they pop…ugh

 

[joseywales]

Man, the more I think about this, the sicker I get. Thinking back, the contractor spilled a 5 gallons bucket of water on to the subfloor. It was a mess and we decided to remodel the office below the bathroom, since the ceiling was affected. It wasn't trashed, but the contractor covered a lot of the cost.

We ran fans and heat in the bathroom, to dry out insulation, etc. I'm starting to wonder if some of the wood subfloor warped a bit. With us working from home, I can't even think about cutting into the office ceiling, to see what's happening above. Ugh...

 

[Matt018888]

I own a remodeling company and we specialize in high end kitchen and baths. We have also done many insurance claims based on flood damage. There are many factors that come into play as to what is failing here, but if you hear cracking there is movement in the tiles. We would not repair only a couple of tiles as I cannot warranty my work than. The only proper fix would be to remove the existing tiles and substrate and start over. As a contractor and have personally laid thousands of square feet of tile we do make mistakes and what separates good contractors from bad is how we handle those mistakes. If the damage is caused by the contractor than he should do what it takes to repair it at no cost to you. Did you sign a contract? In our contracts it states that should any damage be caused on my behalf due to poor workmanship or lack of proper install we will be liable for damages.

 

[Matt018888]

Rereading your thread, I believe your saying they spilled water on the floor before they installed tile? Correct me if I'm wrong. If that's the case I would suspect improper tile installation from the start. Tile is a difficult process to accomplish properly and many contractors do not have the skill nor product knowledge. Backer board when installed properly should have a troweled layer of unmodified thinset between board and subfloor. Cement board rated fasteners should be spaced no further than 12" apart, board seems should be taped, depending on the size of the tile they should be back buttered and a proper trowel size should be used to get proper coverage to support the tile. If the tile isn't a mosaic you could use a product called fixafloor. It's a Elmer's glue consistency and color, you drill a hole in the grout line stick the caulk tube in the hole and pump this stuff in-between the tile and substrate.

 

[joseywales]

@Matt018888 thanks for the detail. The contractor is family and honestly, of he didn’t get it right the first time…

normally, I’d agree. Chase the contractor, but it’s not worth it.
I like the idea of the repair. It’s not mosaic and we actually have 2 boxes of tiles, if one needed replacing.
We shall see

no any good tile guys in SEPA?

 

[Half-fast eddie]

Crackling-popping sounds like they used self-levelling floor fill over a plywood floor. Seems like a great idea to get the subfloor smooth and level. Works until the warranty runs out.

Problem is … it’s usually a thin layer of slc so it doesn’t have any inherent strength. Then over time the wood structure flexes, the slc cracks & crumbles, and the sound you hear is like walking in corn flakes.

 

[56Mark]

I am not a tile contractor but have flipped a few higher end houses and laid tile in them and the houses I have lived in including a new one I finished a couple of years ago. Popping and cracking sounds....I would find a good tile contractor and rip it all out. Make sure the sub-floor is solid and strong enough to support tile (there are calculators on line for this, go to johnbridge.com). I would put down Schluter Ditra instead of backer board. While you are at it, I would use Ditra Heat as the backer and add a heated floor. Once you have heated tile, you won't install if again without heat. If it is not a huge floor, a good tile guy will be in and out in less than a week. The heat would add several hundred $ and take another day or two and maybe some electrical work.

 

[Matt018888]

I don't know any contractors in your area, but I'll let you in on a contracting secret... Go to a local tile supplier and speak to a sales associate. They should have some recommendations. Worst case a building supplier.

 

[duneslider]

As a licensed tile contractor I am guessing your issue is a poor installation and not a water issue. But hard to say without seeing it in person to see and feel what is going on.

Do you have any grout cracking in the areas it is making noise? Was thinset put under the backer board used?

 

[joseywales]

As a licensed tile contractor I am guessing your issue is a poor installation and not a water issue. But hard to say without seeing it in person to see and feel what is going on.

Do you have any grout cracking in the areas it is making noise? Was thinset put under the backer board used?

Thanks. No, grout is fine. Not sure about the thinset, but I think you’re on the right track. This just started, as the cold weather moved in, so either it wasn’t done correctly, or the sub floor warped and turned a bit.

the wife wants to play it out and wait for it to get worse, then just have it all replaced. Might not be a bad idea. Right now, it’s happening in front of the sink and toward the toilet, so high traffic area. BR is small, 10x8, something like that.

 

[duneslider]

My guess is there is a little bit of movement and it will eventually start cracking the grout. Nothing wrong with leaving it and dealing with it once it gets worse.

 

[mike93lx]

I am not a tile contractor but have flipped a few higher end houses and laid tile in them and the houses I have lived in including a new one I finished a couple of years ago. Popping and cracking sounds....I would find a good tile contractor and rip it all out. Make sure the sub-floor is solid and strong enough to support tile (there are calculators on line for this, go to johnbridge.com). I would put down Schluter Ditra instead of backer board. While you are at it, I would use Ditra Heat as the backer and add a heated floor. Once you have heated tile, you won't install if again without heat. If it is not a huge floor, a good tile guy will be in and out in less than a week. The heat would add several hundred $ and take another day or two and maybe some electrical work.

I used ditra heat in my last bathroom remodel. It was fantastic having it, but it wasn't cheap.

I also ended up with too short of a wire (and I followed their recommendation) so there were some cold spots. If I did it again, I'd find a way to actually measure the wire length. Maybe sharpie on the plywood.

Heating aside, ditra is my default for tile. I haven't done a ton, but it's all worked great and been really solid

 

[kumquat]

If the tile isn't a mosaic you could use a product called fixafloor. It's a Elmer's glue consistency and color, you drill a hole in the grout line stick the caulk tube in the hole and pump this stuff in-between the tile and substrate.

I had one loose tile in my bathroom. Tried Fix-A-Floor. Then re-grouted the entire 3" X 5" en-suite because the grout was stained. So far it's held nicely for a couple of weeks. A year? 2 years, who knows.

 

[Matt018888]

As a remodeling contractor, we have used this to fix other people's work with mixed results. You know when it takes on how easy it pumps under the floor. Hope they did it right the first time but it is a cost effective solution to those that don't want to or have the funds to do a tare out and redo. It's always worth a try but not sutable for wet locations. Works on squeaky hardwood as well.

 

[Ricky Joe]

I don’t agree with much of what has been said. First thing I would want to know is if Mastic was used instead of thin set. If so, I would tear out the tile. The backer board should be fine so long as the subfloor is good. If regular thinset was used, I would think that there may have been voids under the tile. That could make it pop and crack. But it isn’t a devastating issue. Pull up the offending tile, clean under it, and replace it; you’ll be good to go.

 

[SALIV8]

My guess is the backer was not the proper plywood used nor the proper attachment to subfloor, and some water caused it to swell. Now the tile is compromised. Stop the leaks first and foremost.

 

[kumquat]

I had one loose tile in my bathroom. Tried Fix-A-Floor. Then re-grouted the entire 3" X 5" en-suite because the grout was stained. So far it's held nicely for a couple of weeks. A year? 2 years, who knows.

It's now about 6 weeks. I avoid stepping on that ti, my wife weighs about 100 lb and does. No issues

 

[billconner]

I think Rickey-Joe has it. If you have a wood dowel, 3/4" or so, tap the tiles. If it sounds hollow, there's a void and it's not set fully in whatever was used - thinset preferably or mastic. There should be no voids. Worst case, tiles will crack.