Found Out Something that I didn't know

[dnschmidt]

I have a new Toyota Camry that I wanted to check the oil level on. Toyota, unlike other cars that I've owned doesn't drill holes through their dipsticks so that you can see if there is oil on the dipstick or not. With clean oil it's damn near impossible to tell if the oil level is correct or not. So, I decided to drill holes in the dipstick so that by capillary attraction I could see where the oil level was. First discovery was that the dipstick is made from Stainless Steel. No biggy, I’ve got cobalt drills so I didn’t think it would be a problem. WRONG. The cobalt drill barely made a dent in it. I then whipped out my Norseman Super Premium 1/16” drill and it went through the stainless steel like butter. THIS BLEW MY MIND. I then looked in the Norseman catalog and they themselves state clearly that their super premium (gold and black) drills far outperform cobalt when used on stainless steel. Moral of the story. Norseman makes really good drills. They’ve now got my business for life.

Second discovery. My Camry has an aluminum hood. I tried to stick my magnetic light to the hood and no dice. Nothing. Tried the fender and no problem sticks like glue but the hood is a no go. I know Toyota is a stickler for gas mileage but I didn’t know that they used aluminum hoods. Maybe that’s why I’m getting 40 MPG.

 

[Half-fast eddie]

My 2003 silverado has an aluminum hood.

The trick is to use an aluminum magnet. I have a link here somewhere …

 

[PassnThru]

My 2003 silverado has an aluminum hood.

The trick is to use an aluminum magnet. I have a link here somewhere …

My 2007 Explorer has one too - I thought I was all alone until now...

 

[joseywales]

My Honda Ridgeline hood flutters so much, I’m certain it will go airborne at some point!

 

[Qualitytools]

Not trying to outdo anyone here but, my 1981 Mercedes has an aluminum hood and trunk lid.

 

[bugnut]

josey on my ridgeline the hood bumpstops keep vibrating down, I adjust with the oil change and checks.

 

[Wakefield]

josey on my ridgeline the hood bumpstops keep vibrating down, I adjust with the oil change and checks.

yes if the hood isn't making good contact on its rubber stops or whatever they're called it will shudder more from the slipstream

 

[mogandave]

Don't you love guys that turn the dip-stick upside down to read it?

In any event, I can't remember the last time I had to top-off my oil...

 

[KnurledNut]

The trick is to use an aluminum magnet. I have a link here somewhere …

Ahhh yes...aluminum magnets, i keep one handy and a second on standby...

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[seber]

Going into the wayback machine, my Austin Healy 100 had an all aluminum body. Unfortunately, no one had figured out how to make it corrosion resistant.

 

[Old Donn]

Mrs has a '19 GMC Acadia. The dipstick end has what looks like a tiny wire brush, no readings or graduations. How I'm supposed to read that is still a mystery.

 

[Walkers]

Not trying to outdo anyone here but, my 1981 Mercedes has an aluminum hood and trunk lid.

So does my 1972 MGB

 

[dutchgray]

Holes in a dipstick, thats something I have never seen, they have all had engraved lines or little notches.

 

[dnschmidt]

Finally, a comment about what I was really trying to make a point about. Sorry about the aluminum hood statement as this is the first car I've ever had that has one. My REAL point was how great Norseman drills are (this is a tool forum after all) and that drilling holes in stainless steel is something my cobalt drills couldn't do which greatly surprised me. The holes in the dipstick are very handy especially if you've got clean motor oil. Because of Physics (I believe capillary attraction) the holes fill up with oil if the oil level reaches the holes. If you can see right through the hole then you need to add oil. All of my previous cars had holes for this purpose my new Toyota doesn't so I made some. What surprised me was how hard it turned out to be to drill a hole in a stainless steel dipstick. According to Norseman the reason for this is that many forms of stainless steel work harden when drilled and this work hardening is enhanced with the beefy web needed on cobalt drills making the material extremely difficult to drill. Their super premium drills beat this rap by having very thin webs. Here's Norseman's statement:

MAGNUM SUPER PREMIUM VS. COBALT The Magnum Super Premium drills will substantially outperform cobalt drills in work hardening stainless steel applications. This performance advantage is the result of construction differences between the two types of drills. Cobalt drills, manufactured to Type J NAS 907 specs, have a very thick web. This web is necessary to limit breakage of the brittle cobalt steel. Magnum Super Premium drills are made of special hi-moly tool steel, which is much tougher than cobalt steel. The web on an Magnum Super Premium drill can be thinned considerably due to the toughness of the steel. An Magnum Super Premium drill with its thin web will penetrate the work hardening stainless fast enough to continually cut beneath the chip which is hardening from deformation. This means the drill is cutting softer steel. The cobalt drill, with its thick web, cannot be fed at a fast enough rate to cut beneath the area which is hardening. As a result the cobalt drill is continually drilling into hardened steel. STAINLESS STEEL WORK HARDENING VS. FREE MACHINING Work hardening grades of stainless are the 300 series with the exception of 303, which is free machining. Free machining grades include the 400 series in addition to type 303. A quick way to identify work hardening vs free machining stainless is to observe the chip formation. Work hardening chips break up during the drilling process, while free machining chips are long and stringy. COBALT APPLICATIONS Cobalt drills are recommended for free machining stainless (400 series & 303), titanium alloys and other high tensile strength materials. These applications require the high red hardness of cobalt steel to counter the substantial heat generated in the drilling process. NORSEMAN MAGNUM SUPER PREMIUM™ VS. COBALT Magnum Super Premium drill with its thin web will penetrate the work hardening stainless fast enough to continually cut beneath the chip which is hardening from deformation. This means the drill is cutting softer steel. The cobalt drill, with its thick web, cannot be fed at a fast enough rate to cut beneath the area which is hardening.

 

[ZRX61]

Not trying to outdo anyone here but, my 1981 Mercedes has an aluminum hood and trunk lid.

Land Rovers had that in the 1950's....

 

[cjarvis]

Norseman/CTD are the only bits I’ll buy. Made in the USA by an American owned company.

 

[Lucid Moments]

Yep, learned about Norseman bits on here and found out how good they are when I bought a set of metric bits of theirs. I have cheap bits that I leave out and will let anyone use. Then I have my good bits hidden.

 

[Legion Prime]

Finally, a comment about what I was really trying to make a point about. Sorry about the aluminum hood statement as this is the first car I've ever had that has one. My REAL point was how great Norseman drills are (this is a tool forum after all) and that drilling holes in stainless steel is something my cobalt drills couldn't do which greatly surprised me. The holes in the dipstick are very handy especially if you've got clean motor oil. Because of Physics (I believe capillary attraction) the holes fill up with oil if the oil level reaches the holes. If you can see right through the hole then you need to add oil. All of my previous cars had holes for this purpose my new Toyota doesn't so I made some. What surprised me was how hard it turned out to be to drill a hole in a stainless steel dipstick. According to Norseman the reason for this is that many forms of stainless steel work harden when drilled and this work hardening is enhanced with the beefy web needed on cobalt drills making the material extremely difficult to drill. Their super premium drills beat this rap by having very thin webs. Here's Norseman's statement:

I believe it's just the oils surface tension that holds it in the holes, same with the crosshatching. Capillary action would mean it climbs the dipstick above the level of the oil. Funny thing about drill bits, my old boss was trying to drill a hole for a screw in some stainless square tubing at work and he'd managed to make a divot after several minutes pushing on his drill. He thought the solution was a corded drill but I brought in an index (Hanson or Chicago I forget which) chucked up the bit in my cordless, put it on the divot and it cut right through. The funny thing was that he had bought a VA drill which aren't the butter got left in the freezer "metal" the big box store drills are typically made from. Regardless, a month or so later I found a Viking 10pc set on amazon for ~$4.50 so I ordered the last two in stock and gave one to him. I didn't realize quite what a deal I'd found until they showed up and I checked the listing again and not only were they 3 months out but they were also $30 ea.

 

[dutchgray]

Land Rovers had that in the 1950's....

1948
Although in later years of Defender production they went back to steel for bonnets and doors.

 

[Sumboodie]

Dip sticks are often made from spring steel.
Given the size and material, I could see why it'd be tough to drill.
I think I'd have tried painting it white before trying to modify it.

Can't say I've seen many with holes in them.
I do know the dipstick on my G35 is poo. Have to let the car sit overnight for it to be readable. Otherwise the dipstick pipe has oil splashed in it and it just carry that up the length of the dipstick.
I have a habit of checking the oil while getting fuel. Works fine on everything else I've owned (easily 40 other cars and trucks)

 

[M6erfan]

I'm with you Dennis. My WK2 Grand Cherokee dipstick is unreadable. I think they made the dipstick metal out of "lightly used oil" color.

Good to know about the drill bits

 

[ZRX61]

1948
Although in later years of Defender production they went back to steel for bonnets and doors.

We just had a chase here. I find it hard to believe a LR could go that fast or even go that far without breaking down:

Newhall CHP in pursuit....vehicle is a Land Rover....NB 14 at Angeles Forest....speeds at 94 mph....solo female hispanic driver
UPDATE: AV taking pursuit over at Vista Point at 106mph
UPDATE 2: NB 14 passing Avenue S at 130mph
UPDATE 3: NB 14 approaching Palmdale Blvd at 130mph
UPDATE 4: NB 14 coming up to Rancho Vista at 109mph
UPDATE 5: NB 14 passing Avenue O at 110mph
UPDATE 6: NB 14 coming up to Avenue N at 106mph
UPDATE 7: NB coming up to Avenue M at 104mph
UPDATE 8: NB 14 coming up to Avenue L at 120mph
UPDATE 9: NB 14 passing Avenue I at 100 mph
UPDATE 10: NB 14 passing Avenue H at 100mph....vehicle now weaving erratically
UPDATE 11: NB 14 passing Avenue G at 82mph
UPDATE 12: NB 14 at Avenue E 86mph
UPDATE 13: NB 14 passing Avenue D at 92mph
UPDATE 14: vehicle thru center divider, making u-turn....vehicle now SB 14 passing Avenue D at 85 mph
UPDATE 15: SB 14 passing Avenue E at 120mph
UPDATE 16: SB 14 passing Avenue H at 115mph
UPDATE 17: possible spike at Avenue H
UPDATE 18: vehicle missed spike
UPDATE 19: SB 14 passing Avenue I at 120mph
UPDATE 20: SB coming up to Avenue K at 125mph
UPDATE 21: vehicle exiting at Avenue K, ran red light at 17th Street West
UPDATE 22: still west on K approching 20th Street West
UPDATE 23: now uturn East on Avenue K
UPDATE 24: now entering SB 14 again
UPDATE 25: SB 14 at Avenue M at 112mph
UPDATE 26: SB 14 passing Avenue N at 95mph in and out of traffic
UPDATE 27: SB 14 passing Avenue O at 100mph
UPDATE 28: SB 14 at Rancho Vista at 105mph
UPDATE 29: SB 14 passing Palmdale Blvd at 100 mph
UPDATE 30: SB 14 at Avenue S at 120mph
UPDATE 31: SB 14 passing Barrel Springs at 110mph
UPDATE 32: SB 14 passing Angeles Forest at 110mph
UPDATE 33: SB 14 passing Santiago at 105 mph
UPDATE 34: SB 14 passing Crown Valley at 103mph
UPDATE 35: successful spike at Red Rover
UPDATE 36: suspect tried to hit officer that threw spike strip
UPDATE 37: left front tire now flat, coming to a stop at Ward Rd
UPDATE 38: driver still in vehicle and on phone
UPDATE 39: now exitied vehicle sitting on center divider on phone
UPDATE 40: taking suspect into custody now....code 4

 

[American Locomotive]

I've had a hard time drilling through stainless with my Norseman Magnum bits before.

The trick with stainless is to spin slow, push very hard and commit. If you start to back off, it will begin to work harden very quickly.

 

[Bolster]

Cobalt drills, manufactured to Type J NAS 907 specs, have a very thick web. This web is necessary to limit breakage of the brittle cobalt steel. Magnum Super Premium drills are made of special hi-moly tool steel, which is much tougher than cobalt steel. The web on an Magnum Super Premium drill can be thinned considerably due to the toughness of the steel.

That's fascinating. Did not know this. Thanks for posting! (Sorry I have no experience with aluminum hoods or SS dipsticks to share).

 

[Mr_fixit]

I found some aluminum cans with pull tabs in the weeds behind my house. I would not be drilling holes in a dipstick , I'd learn how to read it without drilling holes.

 

[jayemm]

I've had a hard time drilling through stainless with my Norseman Magnum bits before.

The trick with stainless is to spin slow, push very hard and commit. If you start to back off, it will begin to work harden very quickly.

I do the same only I "commit" for about 2 or 3 seconds at most then stop for a few seconds. It doesn't give time for heat to develop and work harden the steel ahead of the bit. I also drill it dry so there is no slick oil film between cutting edge and the work. I want the bit to really bite and no cooling or lubrication is needed anyway. After trying this I was surprised how quickly it went. Use high speed and heavy down pressure and you'll get nowhere burning up bits all day.

 

[dutchgray]

We just had a chase here. I find it hard to believe a LR could go that fast or even go that far without breaking down:

Some of the V8 options have decent power, in the 500 hp range, of course there is almost none of those over here as almost no one can afford to keep the tank full, they mostly sell them to the Arab countries and the USA. There has been plenty of tuners over the years as well making them quicker.

 

[demarpaint]

My dipstick is flat at the business end with holes and it can still be a PITA to read. I take a sheet of a paper towel on a flat surface and press/slide down slightly the dipstick against it if I have a problem reading it with clean oil. The oil gets transferred to the paper and I hold it against the dipstick and I know the level.

 

[shoot summ]

Wife's car doesn't have a dipstick, the oil level is checked electronically.

 

[Crowbarman55]

I know this is a drill bit post but... I service rental cars (so I see a lot of different makes and model cars) and dipsticks come in many different designs on the end. Some have holes some have hash marks. The one I never understood was the brown plastic on the end of a cable dipstick. With real dirty oil it works but with clean oil you can't tell what level the oil is at.
Todd

 

[KenC]

My 2007 Explorer has one too - I thought I was all alone until now...

My old '97 F150 has an aluminum hood. Bought it new and didn't know that for years. Like the earlier poster, found out with my magnetic work light.

 

[ZRX61]

Some of the V8 options have decent power, in the 500 hp range, of course there is almost none of those over here as almost no one can afford to keep the tank full, they mostly sell them to the Arab countries and the USA. There has been plenty of tuners over the years as well making them quicker.

There's also the inconvenience & expense of having to own two of them so you have something to drive while the other one is in the shop being fixed again.
I worked as a LR mech/fabricator for two years in the UK, you couldn't pay me enough to own one.

 

[ZRX61]

Some of the V8 options have decent power, in the 500 hp range, of course there is almost none of those over here as almost no one can afford to keep the tank full, they mostly sell them to the Arab countries and the USA. There has been plenty of tuners over the years as well making them quicker.

In this case the driver would have been better off if she had carried on headed North instead of doing a U turn & going back South. She was headed out into the Mojave Desert & there wasn't a PD or media helicopter anywhere near enough to get above her. She would have lost the cops off road once she got out past Mojave/Cal City towards Randsberg etc.

 

[Steve_P]

Years ago, I bought some Norseman cobalt bits before I read their statement on why the Magnum bits are superior with 300 series SST. And I already had the Magnum bits. Oops. Maybe I'll eventually need them on some 400 SST.
And for aluminum commentary, I have a Mitsubishi Evo that has an aluminum hood, fenders, and roof.

 

[Moldyjim]

Wife's car doesn't have a dipstick, the oil level is checked electronically.

What could go wrong?

 

[dutchgray]

There's also the inconvenience & expense of having to own two of them so you have something to drive while the other one is in the shop being fixed again.
I worked as a LR mech/fabricator for two years in the UK, you couldn't pay me enough to own one.

I do own one, an 84 LR90, I wouldn't want a modern one at least with the old ones they are simple, don't have electronics and parts are cheap, it isn't actually that unreliable (its never broken down in the 18 years I have had it) but service costs are quite high as there is always plenty of stuff that needs doing on it. It is terribly badly engineered though and you just know they never really thought about anything on there, just rummaged in the parts bins that were available and bodged the rest up until it sort of worked. Then shoved and under powered and 20 year outdated engine in the front.
Mine I went back to manual steering as I got fed up with some part of the power system failing every year or so and blowing all the ATF out all over the place.

You want a Toyota hilux for when its being fixed.

But the modern ones are terrible, I know of several who have had catastrophic engine failure (diesels) at like 50k or less and thats like a 10K bill to put in a recon on a 20k vehicle and they haven't fixed the issue so it can happen again.
Not that many current vehicles are actually any good, unless its got Toyota or Honda badges.

 

[Xcursion88]

I have a new Toyota Camry that I wanted to check the oil level on. Toyota, unlike other cars that I've owned doesn't drill holes through their dipsticks so that you can see if there is oil on the dipstick or not. With clean oil it's damn near impossible to tell if the oil level is correct or not. So, I decided to drill holes in the dipstick so that by capillary attraction I could see where the oil level was. First discovery was that the dipstick is made from Stainless Steel. No biggy, I’ve got cobalt drills so I didn’t think it would be a problem. WRONG. The cobalt drill barely made a dent in it. I then whipped out my Norseman Super Premium 1/16” drill and it went through the stainless steel like butter. THIS BLEW MY MIND. I then looked in the Norseman catalog and they themselves state clearly that their super premium (gold and black) drills far outperform cobalt when used on stainless steel. Moral of the story. Norseman makes really good drills. They’ve now got my business for life.

Second discovery. My Camry has an aluminum hood. I tried to stick my magnetic light to the hood and no dice. Nothing. Tried the fender and no problem sticks like glue but the hood is a no go. I know Toyota is a stickler for gas mileage but I didn’t know that they used aluminum hoods. Maybe that’s why I’m getting 40 MPG.

Aluminum hoods (as far as the regular vehicles of the Jones') was brought to said public by the F150 for the 1997 models.

The dipstick...
Center punching two dots would've worked well for your goal.

 

[shoot summ]

What could go wrong?

Nothing, it is far more reliable than depending on someone to remember to raise the hood and play with their dipstick. Takes about 3 seconds to check while in the driver's seat after the engine is warm.

 

[fuggle]

Nothing, it is far more reliable than depending on someone to remember to raise the hood and play with their dipstick. Takes about 3 seconds to check while in the driver's seat after the engine is warm.

Not nothing. The point being sensors don't last forever. And if its german the siemens or bosche junk goes quick. Nothing like paying a few hundred dollars to get the broken "dipstick" to work.

 

[shoot summ]

Not nothing. The point being sensors don't last forever. And if its german the siemens or bosche junk goes quick. Nothing like paying a few hundred dollars to get the broken "dipstick" to work.

Modern vehicles have many, many sensors, they all "don't last forever", how is an oil level sensor any different than the other critical sensors in the engine bay? Some will cost a lot more than a few hundred dollars to address, and could have significantly more consequence than the oil level.