Dado Blades Cordless Circular Saw?

[jonshonda]

Looking to run a narrow dado stack in a M18 Cordless circular saw. We are thinking about putting dados into wood ramps on biking/walking trails in the woods, where electricity isn't available. Precision isn't required.

Yes, no...maybe so! Jonshonda you're crazy just let it go?

 

[mike93lx]

No. Use a router

 

[Black300zx]

Are you trying to groove the surface for traction?

 

[mogandave]

What could possibly go wrong...

 

[Voi]

Years ago I had a video pop up on YouTube about cutting dados with a circular saw. I believe the blade they used was some sort of wood carving blade for an angle grinder. I watched part of the video and the bottom of the dado looked clean. I don't recall arbor size.

 

[RTM]

Most dado sets say don’t run them in handheld tools.

maybe two passes with a regular blade, chisel out the waste, or use a router plane for the waste.

 

[reader2580]

Cordless router with a guide would likely be better. I have a Makita LXT 18 volt trim router and it does tend to eat batteries when I was trimming 1/8" masonite. Milwaukee makes what they call a compact router that is supposed to have as much power as a 1.25 HP corded router.

 

[txvwnut]

If that M18 is like my Ryobi the arbor isn't long enough to put two blades on and have enough threads for the nut to grab properly. I would invest in a cordless router and use that to make the grooves, much safer and designed to do just that type of work.

 

[purplezr2]

Cordless router and speed square would be pretty quick.

 

[budget76]

every wood feature I've ridden looks like it was just crosshatched with a chainsaw. why reinvent the wheel, no chainsaw?

 

[jonshonda]

every wood feature I've ridden looks like it was just crosshatched with a chainsaw. why reinvent the wheel, no chainsaw?

Correct! Although we are in the process of asking for chainsaw use, currently city parks don't allow use by anyone other then a city official.

Are you trying to groove the surface for traction?

Yup! Although rough sawn, they are still a wee bit slippery at times!

 

[Toolfool]

Correct! Although we are in the process of asking for chainsaw use, currently city parks don't allow use by anyone other then a city official.

Even a battery operated chainsaw ?!!

 

[jonshonda]

Even a battery operated chainsaw ?!!

Correct! We "think" it has something to due with the city employees union rules?

At one of the city parks that let a volunteer cut ski trails into very steep terrain with a 40ton dozer, no real questions asked. But run a chainsaw, NOPE!!

 

[MoonRise]

For traction, a dado wide groove isn't really needed.

Just use the existing ~1/8" wide 'regular' blade (a lot of the cordless saws come with or are made to run with a narrow-kerf blade which are usually about 4/64" or 0.065" wide) and put some slots in the surface. Make multiple passes if you want/need a wider groove/kerf.

One option (as mentioned) is to make two parallel passes to define the width of the desired groove/kerf and then chisel out the waste.

Or go the cordless router (best option IMNSHO) with a straight bit of the desired groove width. Or you could go with a core box bit (rounded bottom on the groove), or a v-groove bit (makes a V shaped groove).

Or a cordless angle grinder with a 'chainsaw' carving disk. (and you thought a 'regular' disk on an angle grinder was dangerous, those things are a circular chainsaw spinning at 11-13k rpm!)

A dado stack is NOT to be used in a handheld circular saw!

If the park regulations prohibit chainsaw usage, make SURE that you have the proper permits or other authorization documentation for your 'modification' of the wooden ramps. Don't want to end up running afoul of Barney Fife (badge or bureaucrat version) and get charged or detained for 'vandalism' or 'destruction of public property' or something.

 

[jonshonda]

^ We have already cut grooves into the wood with a circ saw, and they are just too narrow to offer much traction. These are mostly roll over ramps for trees that have fallen across the trails. They are a lot more fun then just simply cutting then just clearing the downed tree.

I will see if I can talk one of the other volunteers into buying a battery router! I unfortunately don't have much use for one!

And our club has agreements with the city on land use...we all good!

 

[mike93lx]

Two cuts at 45 degrees offset each other. It will create a wider groove quickly

 

[budget76]

ahh, interesting restriction. maybe chainsaws are a liability thing. FYI Ryobi cordless trim router can be had for $40-50 range if you watch for it

what about a cordless grinder with one of the wood cutting / shaping wheels?

 

[six-point socket II]

Please, stay away as far as you can from those angle grinder discs with attached chainsaw chains. They are extremely dangerous and pose an imminent risk to life and limb!

-> https://ec.europa.eu/safety-gate-alerts/screen/webReport/alertDetail/10004589

-> https://www.pbctoday.co.uk/news/health-safety-news/angle-grinder-chainsaw-discs/95512/

-> https://www.westsussex.gov.uk/news/safety-warning-after-firefighter-survives-horrific-diy-incident/


Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[SteveCh]

What could possibly go wrong...

Now, be fair. He might just miss his femoral artery.

 

[M635_Guy]

A dado blade on a circ saw or one of those shaping wheels are genuinely bad ideas.

 

[LukeOresk]

I don’t know if I’m miss understanding it but could you strap some small pieces of plywood on top the ramps? Spaced out wouldn’t that be the same as cutting into it, and everyone has a cordless drill right?

 

[neophyte]

There are specialty power tools specifically made for cutting grooves, however, as far as I’m aware, the tools don’t come in cordless.
Festool and Makita both make the tools, and the tool looks similar to a circular saw.
Hitachi, or whatever it’s called now, makes or made a similar tool, although the Hitachi tool looked more like a power hand planer.
Maybe check on the blades, to see if they could be used in your circular saw, although there might be issues, since Most of these tools are European or Asian, and likely use Metric arbor sizes.

Alternatively, if you go for one of the angle grinder carving blade options.
The safest version might be the Arbortech “Industrial Woodcarver”.
This uses three replaceable teeth, with an anti-kickback design.
The teeth can be rotated if the teeth get nicked, and the blades are designed for safe hand use.
you would still need to limit depth of cut.

The classic “cordless” option would be a plough plane.

 

[jonshonda]

A dado blade on a circ saw or one of those shaping wheels are genuinely bad ideas.

Well you are now fun!!

I don’t know if I’m miss understanding it but could you strap some small pieces of plywood on top the ramps? Spaced out wouldn’t that be the same as cutting into it, and everyone has a cordless drill right?

Plywood won't hold up.

 

[six-point socket II]

I remembered something, but it is not cordless and comes with a "loaded" price tag - but it is safe when used as set out by the operating instructions. Festool's Groove Unit for the Festool HK85 circular saw, I will add that I do not know if this is available in the US or suitable for what you want to do:

Groove unit VN-HK85 130X16-25

www.festool.com

its for this saw: https://www.festool.com/products/ti...circular-saws/576147---hk-85-eb-plus#Overview

There is (was?) also one for a larger circular saw from Festool, can't find it on the official site currently, a German dealer still lists it for sale, so I put a link just for reference: https://www.contorion.de/p/festool-handkreissaege-hk-132-ns-hk-85333103

I have no idea if this would be suitable for your situation at all, don't know about availability, don't know about safety when used any other way than fully supported.

Maybe this is at least a bit of helpful information. This is NOT a recommendation!

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[VR6ix]

At one of the city parks that let a volunteer cut ski trails into very steep terrain with a 40ton dozer, no real questions asked. But run a chainsaw, NOPE!!

Get someone at the club who's good at it to hound the city relentlessly into allowing "specially trained" individuals to use chainsaws on the city land. Keep after the soulless city bureaucrats until they cave and grant permission. A club local to me is allowed to run small machines on the trail system built on city land ( think Bobcat skidsteers, mini-ex's and such, chainsaws) simply because through the network of club members they manged to gain traction within city hall and sway the city to allow them to IMPROVE the local trails with volunteer effort and attract MORE out-of-towners who would then INCREASE revenue at local shops, restaurants and businesses. Plus you can always play the safety card in that the wood features are compromised unless you can finish them with chainsaw work.

If that doesn't work, just build a bicycle-powered "chainsaw" and go at it!

 

[tyyost]

I’d totally go after it with a Milwaukee M12 Hatchet.

Whlie technically a chain saw, it's form factor won’t draw attention, it’s quiet, and will come in handy for other jobs on the trails.

 

[rkevins]

could you grove the material before you take it to the trail ? go out and measure what you need and have everything precut when you get there and speed up install time.

 

[Mandres]

You can easily make dados with a circ saw with the old "polish plane" technique. You cut a few grooves then hammer out most of the waste. Then you (carefully) swing the saw sideways in the dado to clear out the rest and smooth the bottom.

 

[mogandave]

Would it not be easier, provide better traction and be stronger to glue/nail strips across the ramps?

 

[Showkey]

On the technical side the battery circle saws have a narrow kerf saw blades to keep the load low as possible. If you could even get a dado or more than one blade mounted on the spindle ………suspect it would perform poorly.

 

[jonshonda]

Get someone at the club who's good at it to hound the city relentlessly into allowing "specially trained" individuals to use chainsaws on the city land. Keep after the soulless city bureaucrats until they cave and grant permission. A club local to me is allowed to run small machines on the trail system built on city land ( think Bobcat skidsteers, mini-ex's and such, chainsaws) simply because through the network of club members they manged to gain traction within city hall and sway the city to allow them to IMPROVE the local trails with volunteer effort and attract MORE out-of-towners who would then INCREASE revenue at local shops, restaurants and businesses. Plus you can always play the safety card in that the wood features are compromised unless you can finish them with chainsaw work.

If that doesn't work, just build a bicycle-powered "chainsaw" and go at it!

That is the interesting part, and the reason we think it has something to do with union rules. We run skids steers, mini ex's, snow dogs, and even 40ton bulldozers, but chainsaws have always been a solid NO! The person hounding is me, as this is the only park under our management (we have 7-8) that is a city park, the rest are county parks or in a different city.

I’d totally go after it with a Milwaukee M12 Hatchet.

Whlie technically a chain saw, it's form factor won’t draw attention, it’s quiet, and will come in handy for other jobs on the trails.

That is a great idea! I could kinda justify getting one for myself as well. hmmmm

could you grove the material before you take it to the trail ? go out and measure what you need and have everything precut when you get there and speed up install time.

Yeah this is our first foray into building this short, but sometimes steep ramps. We "assumed" them being rough cut would be enough to provide traction, but a recent damp ride has me rethinking that plan.

Would it not be easier, provide better traction and be stronger to glue/nail strips across the ramps?

My goal with this park is to give it that old school singletrack feel. Using rough saw oak and natural type materials, vs treated lumbers. But ideally yes, it would be best to have prepared the material prior to hauling it into the woods

 

[cjarvis]

Couple of ideas:

Could you stack two regular circ saw blades together on your saw? I’d think that two low tooth count blades with the teeth staggered so that the tooth of one blade falls in the gullet of the other would work.

Otherwise, have you considered using some expanded metal, fastened to the top of your ramps, for a traction aid?

 

[mike93lx]

Couple of ideas:

Could you stack two regular circ saw blades together on your saw? I’d think that two low tooth count blades with the teeth staggered so that the tooth of one blade falls in the gullet of the other would work.

Otherwise, have you considered using some expanded metal, fastened to the top of your ramps, for a traction aid?

Expanded metal would feel amazing in a wipeout

 

[cjarvis]

Expanded metal would feel amazing in a wipeout

So don’t wipeout, problem solved!

(speaking as someone who’s wiped out many times…)

 

[Skiff Builder]

could you grove the material before you take it to the trail ? go out and measure what you need and have everything precut when you get there and speed up install time.

This is the way to do it.

Stronger and quicker. Add material instead of removing. Strips, tube PL Premium, Hammer, Galv Nails. Build all my floating dock ramps this way- good traction.

 

[Firebrick43]

why not put a milwaukee hatchet in a book bag, set up sentries in the area and two way radios, and do your work. If any one is coming put it away. Doesn't sound like a chainsaw, can put it places a chainsaw wouldn't fit.

 

[mike93lx]

why not put a milwaukee hatchet in a book bag, set up sentries in the area and two way radios, and do your work. If any one is coming put it away. Doesn't sound like a chainsaw, can put it places a chainsaw wouldn't fit.

Loose lips sink ships.

Need deep vetting before pulling that team together

 

[jonshonda]

why not put a milwaukee hatchet in a book bag, set up sentries in the area and two way radios, and do your work. If any one is coming put it away. Doesn't sound like a chainsaw, can put it places a chainsaw wouldn't fit.

That is likely the best idea so far! But I just need the Santa of trail builders to drop a Hatchet under my tree!

Loose lips sink ships.

Need deep vetting before pulling that team together

Nah, my crew wouldn't say a word! I am also pretty sure 99% of the people that ride out there don't have any clue we are so severely handicapped.

 

[mike93lx]

Nah, my crew wouldn't say a word!

That's what we always think!

I'm just joking anyway. Keep up the work, trails need love too

 

[jonshonda]

That's what we always think!

I'm just joking anyway. Keep up the work, trails need love too

yeah right! They will likely squeal like pigs at the first threat of prison!