unused breaker?

[starquestMM]

I got to looking at the inspection report for the house I'm buying and noticed something.


The second 240 breaker down doesn't look like its connected to anything. Is it just a dummy at this point? Or something else?

The 5th one down looks like it only has one wire connected? Will a 240 breaker work with just one leg or should I swap that out?

For 240 loads I think the house has AC, cooktop, hottub, and maybe the jetted tub is 220 also ?. Furnace and water heater are natural gas.

This might be good news if that one breaker is just a dummy as that'll be a spot to feed a subpanel.

mm

 

[mike93lx]

Is the WH new? Could have previously been electric and switched to gas.

Either way, if it isn't hooked up, use it. Personally, I would use that space for a surge protector and then grab another tandem to free another spot (along with the open one on the bottom) for your sub

The existing breaker would work with just one leg, but why?

 

[Jim greengo]

I leave a 2p breaker if there's room for a spare sometimes when I do a panel change out.
I always start with 2p breakers at top of panel and work my way down from there with 20a single poles and 15a single poles under that.
It doesnt make it work better,its just part of my **** retentive up bringing,and I think it looks better.
As far as 1 side of the 2p breaker being used,i wouldn't worry too much safety wise as long as the breaker and wire are sized up correctly.
You can always swap it if you buy the house.

 

[starquestMM]

Thank you both, looks like nothing much to worry about and still some room for upgrades.

mm

 

[mikedodge]

The one with nothing connected is a spare. If you ever need a new breaker for something it can be pulled out and replaced if it's not the right size.
You aren't supposed to only hook up one side of a 2 pole breaker.
It's probably just the picture but the black and red wires higher up don't look like they're both the same size.

 

[nadogail]

Maybe it is a placeholder because somebody mistakenly removed the knock outs?

 

[acer66]

Is it up to code to have a breaker in the panel that is not connected?

 

[BillK]

Is the WH new? Could have previously been electric and switched to gas.

That's the situation in my panel. When the house was new we had an electric water heater. They ran gas down our street and we switched over so I have a 240 spare unused breaker.

OP, is there anything written on the panel door label for that slot ?

 

[Jay H 237]

Clothes dryer?

 

[starquestMM]

Hmm, don't know if the dryer is gas or electric (I'd forgotten about that one). Maybe thats the 4th 240 instead of the jetted tub. I'll know for sure in a week after closing.

 

[starquestMM]

So, the dryer is electric and the unused breaker is labeled furnace.

The 60 amp that feeds the hottub is also labeled furnace so the labeling is a bit suspect. I'll get a buddy to help me map everything out.

The 240 breaker where only one leg is being used is a 30 amp and has 10 guage wire, so seems fine. Dunno what it does yet, might still need correction depending.

I dug around in the insulation and found the two unused wires. They cut enough off they couldn't be reconnected... but there might be enough scrap value there to pay for surge protection at least.

The panel is pretty orderly and isn't a rats nest like my prior house. All of the neutrals are double tapped leaving plenty of unused spots on the bar. Its worked for 30 years so I don't think I'll mess with it.

 

[yatg]

All of the neutrals are double tapped

Each neutral needs its own screw.
Grounds can be doubled up and sometimes tripled if the panel is labeled for it.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Is it up to code to have a breaker in the panel that is not connected?

There is no code prohibiting it...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So, the dryer is electric and the unused breaker is labeled furnace.

The 60 amp that feeds the hottub is also labeled furnace so the labeling is a bit suspect. I'll get a buddy to help me map everything out.

The 240 breaker where only one leg is being used is a 30 amp and has 10 guage wire, so seems fine. Dunno what it does yet, might still need correction depending.

I dug around in the insulation and found the two unused wires. They cut enough off they couldn't be reconnected... but there might be enough scrap value there to pay for surge protection at least.

The panel is pretty orderly and isn't a rats nest like my prior house. All of the neutrals are double tapped leaving plenty of unused spots on the bar. Its worked for 30 years so I don't think I'll mess with it.

That is NOT kosher and needs to be fixed

 

[Metal-Marc]

There is no code prohibiting it...

Yup, because it's safe.

In fact, if every single breakers were not connected to any wires, you'd have much less electrical fires.

 

[starquestMM]

So my buddy helped me figure out the circuits and a couple of thing stood out.

A) that 30 amp double breaker with only one 10g connection... runs to the water softener outlet and then changes to 12g to feed the up garage. I'll change it out for a 20 amp breaker and 12g wire.

B) the kitchen has 3 20amp circuits, but none of them are dedicated. I think I'll add a new 20amp run for the microwave for now and when I update the kitchen I can address the rest.

C) all of the rooms are wired with lights and outlets on same circuit. *****, but live with.

D) I seem to have a whole 15amp circuit that doesn't do anything but one stairway light. WTF

E) the jetted tub runs off the bathroom circuit. I tripped the GFCI outlets and it didn't shut down the tub. So I still need to figure out if its protected internally. If not maybe i can swap in a GFCI breaker.

F) the panel and breakers are 1990 Champion. I pulled a few breakers and don't see any signs of issues. Dunno how worried i should be about this.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

wow what a mess

do you have a higher res pic of the panel?

 

[Norcal]

Only going to comment on the breaker, at worst it's expensive filler plates to close up unused openings, on the good side there is a bonus breaker, neither are a bad thing, the worst violation if it is not marked as "spare" which is a 30 second fix, my point is it's no big deal.

 

[mike93lx]

For your item A, don't change any wire. The #10 is fine. Just move it to a 20a breaker

 

[starquestMM]

wow what a mess

do you have a higher res pic of the panel?

Lol, if you think this is a mess you should have seen my last house. The panel there looked like a 4 year old's first attempt at hair braiding and there were circuits tied together through three way switches. I figured out and corrected all of that so hopefully this isn't too much of a challenge.

Here are some better pictures.





In planning out what all needs to be done over time, I think I'll need a sub panel. Tandems won't be enough to cover everything.

 

[nadogail]

The first thing an Inspector notices is a sloppily wired panel.

 

[PoorUB]

The first thing an Inspector notices is a sloppily wired panel.

It looks better than most I have seen!

I would hate to post a picture of my panel. It has been added and modified many times over the years. It was a mess when I bought the place and I keep thinking I will dive in and clean it up, but it never gets done.

 

[rburke65]

I wouldn’t worry about the unused breaker. And yes, I’ve seen a lot worse looking panels.

 

[starquestMM]

Thought I'd update just to close this thread out...

For this 30 space 200a challenger panel:

• added a ground bar and that gave me space to separate the double tapped neutrals.
• switched out the original challenger breakers for BR ones.
• added a two 90a subpanels and started moving circuits from the main to the subs where it made sense.
• spd in all three panels.

During all this work I made a mistake where where a ground wire and touched the line screw to make a short on a new outlet. When I flipped the challenger breaker on it took like 8 seconds of loud humming and then shot a bunch of sparks out when it tripped. Scary stuff.

I knew when i bought a house up here it was the wild west of building codes... so it hasn't been entirely surprising to find 30+ hidden junctions. This bypassed switch surprise under a blank plate takes the cake so far.


.

 

[nadogail]

A unused breaker is an opportunity for expansion.