2 15 amp outlets 900 feet away

[minytrker]

I want to run (2) 15 amp outlets to my entrance 900 feet away. I want to power my electric gate (currently on 12v battery and solar) and some led lights. Im concerned with running electricity that far and its not going to be cheap ($3500 in material). I have a transformer maybe 150 feet from gate but it would require a second meter loop ($1500) and a $25/month fee. Which is the best option?

 

[alfredeneuman]

If you run the 2 with separate cables, you can take advantage of the "lesser burial rule" if you have GFI protection at the beginning of the run. (12" vs 24") which covers 15 or 20A 120V circuits only.
With 900 ft of trench to dig it would make a lot of sense.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Install a better battery and charger. Then install an inverter. Much easier and cheaper.

 

[jeepxj]

uhh a 400w solar panel is cheap. plus a car battery


or upgrade the gate

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[minytrker]

I want to run (2) 15 amp outlets to my entrance 900 feet away. I want to power my electric gate (currently on 12v battery and solar) and some led lights. Im concerned with running electricity that far and its not going to be cheap ($3500 in material). I have a transformer maybe 150 feet from gate but it would require a second meter loop ($1500) and a $25/month fee. Which is the best option?

Please re-read the post, I asking about running electricity that far. I already have a apollo gate opener running on a battery with solar for years now. I am not asking how to make my gate work. I want to run lights, the gate opener, have an outlet and a router on 120v. My 3rd cell remote opener in 10 years went out so Im switching over to wifi to remotely control and monitor the gate.

 

[jeepxj]

an option from the house would be to step it up to 480 for the transmission part, then step it back down. depending on lighting needs you're really looking at small wattage down there. maybe 500 watts max?

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and looks like the guy has both ends for ya in. that gets you 8 amps of 120v. if my napkin math is right.

bigger just cause?

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you'd only have a couple amps at 480v putting wire size pretty small. #14 maybe.

math size i still vote for a regular size solar panel, car battery and combo controller.


500 bucks gets you basically turn key setup.

Amazon.com

 

[billconner]

Do you know load of gate? I'll assume the LED lighting is trivial. Does not seem to be a significant voltage drop problem.

 

[jeepxj]

Do you know load of gate? I'll assume the LED lighting is trivial. Does not seem to be a significant voltage drop problem.

gates usually run their own battery setup. so the load is really just a trickle charger for the battery.

 

[minytrker]

My plan is to run the gate on a 120v power supply that outputs 12v 20amps max and the 12v battery would just be for backup and is charged by solar.
The electrical supply place I use said I need 2 gauge to get 15 amps 900 feet away.

 

[jeepxj]

so 240w max on the gate charger.

200w for lights

50w for router/wifi/etc.

500w total need roughly.

which makes this next link even more funny. but hey; you do you

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[billconner]

I think you can design for the connected load, and not the full circuit capacity. The no 2 sounds like 15 amps but is the motor really over 2 hp? probably more like a 1/4 HP which is a little under 190 watts or a little over 1.5 amps. I think no 12 works but I'd go to no. 10. Not sure you need a separate circuit but to avoid any possibility of lights dimming when gate runs, put in 10/3 and a 2 pole breaker. 1000' of no. 10/3 UF-B is in the $1600 range at HD.

Maybe I'm wrong but I believe the drop is calculated for the load, not the circuit.

Posted before your last post was seen.

 

[tarmy]

I did the same thing years ago OP. My gate was about 300ish feet from my sub panel. The good folks here steered me to a voltage loss table for 110 long runs. I oversized my conductors according to the table and ran one set to my gate/camera set up.

My gate is a 24v system (LiftMaster…great gate opener by the way) with a set of 12v batteries that uses the 110 to charge them…the camera is low voltage too. Works great…just get the conductor sizing calculated correctly for the run.

I have a tractor/backhoe…so I dug the trench myself. If you have a trench open…I would suggest that you put an extra 1” conduit in there…or two! I ended up using one for some other lighting…

I am not the electrical guru…but it works…good luck.

 

[908Jim]

I want to run (2) 15 amp outlets to my entrance 900 feet away. I want to power my electric gate (currently on 12v battery and solar) and some led lights. Im concerned with running electricity that far and its not going to be cheap ($3500 in material). I have a transformer maybe 150 feet from gate but it would require a second meter loop ($1500) and a $25/month fee. Which is the best option?

What's your plan for going WiFi? This info may sway the overall decision.

Will you be adding a second modem by the gate as well? Regular ethernet is good for a few hundred feet at best. You'd need to step up to fiber beyond that and it will just add additional cost.

 

[PoorUB]

I agree with the others, size for the load. Check the ratings on the charger and lights and run with that for the load, probaly get down to a couple amps at the most and run 10 gauge.

 

[jeepxj]

What's your plan for going WiFi? This info may sway the overall decision.

Will you be adding a second modem by the gate as well? Regular ethernet is good for a few hundred feet at best. You'd need to step up to fiber beyond that and it will just add additional cost.

PtP stuff is dirt cheap for the need there.

 

[Bad Habit]

My plan is to run the gate on a 120v power supply that outputs 12v 20amps max and the 12v battery would just be for backup and is charged by solar.
The electrical supply place I use said I need 2 gauge to get 15 amps 900 feet away.

Make sure of how much power you actually need, and plan to that. Get a Buck/Boost transformer and connect it at your source to increase the voltage ~10-15%. Then do your calcs for voltage drop. If you only need ~7 amps, and you boost the voltage by 10% to 132, for 900 feet you'll be able to run with 2 x#8, boost it higher and you can get by with #10.

Personnaly, if your trenching anyway, put a fiber in. You can get a pre-terminated cable pretty cheap and it's a lot less fiddly than dealing with a WiFi connection, and more reliable.

 

[theoldwizard1]

My plan is to run the gate on a 120v power supply that outputs 12v 20amps max and the 12v battery would just be for backup and is charged by solar.
The electrical supply place I use said I need 2 gauge to get 15 amps 900 feet away.

If you have your heart set on running wire, the best solution is a pair of of 120/480-480/120 transformers. At 480 volts, the voltage drop is much less (because the the current is much less at the higher voltage). UF-B (standard underground direct burial wire) IS rated for 600V.

1000' of 14/2 UF-B costs over $600.

 

[minytrker]

My options are:
1) run wire 900 feet along with fiber optic for internet (cost $3500-$4000)
2) get second service installed 150 feet from gate and use wifi at gate ($2000 total plus $25/month)

I need it to be reliable so I can see my gate and also control it remotely. I have been using a cell devices for remotely opening but cant see it the gate. I have went through 3 different ones in 10 years and currently the one in there went out. I have to be able to remotely open the gate sometimes multiple times a day. Our gate opens and closes alot and am at the limit of what my battery and solar can handle.

 

[alfredeneuman]

There's this problem with transformers.
Any xfrmr that draws over 9 amps requires both primary and secondary fuses and disconnects (A 30A 600V fusible disconnects cost >$150+fuses.)
The transformer that acts to step down the voltage will need grounding (2 rods) of the manufactured neutral.

 

[jeepxj]

What size solar panel and battery? the stuff that came with the apollo setup? you can upside BOTH for considerably less than what it will cost to run electric there. under 750 bucks easy.

also assuming you have line of sight you can run a wireless bridge from gate to house for network connectivity.

 

[theoldwizard1]

There's this problem with transformers.
Any xfrmr that draws over 9 amps requires both primary and secondary fuses and disconnects (A 30A 600V fusible disconnects cost >$150+fuses.)
The transformer that acts to step down the voltage will need grounding (2 rods) of the manufactured neutral.

That is not a "problem". Just additional cost of installation.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Our gate opens and closes alot and am at the limit of what my battery and solar can handle.

Better/bigger battery, better/bigger solar array.

 

[alfredeneuman]

That is not a "problem". Just additional cost of installation.

Anything that costs that much, additional labor, and complicates the job is a "problem"

 

[Norcal]

Use DB aluminum 4-6 AWG if #4 is used tape can be used to mark the grounding and neutral conductors.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

My plan is to run the gate on a 120v power supply that outputs 12v 20amps max and the 12v battery would just be for backup and is charged by solar.
The electrical supply place I use said I need 2 gauge to get 15 amps 900 feet away.

The question is do you NEED 15a @ the gate? And what would it be for?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What's your plan for going WiFi? This info may sway the overall decision.

Will you be adding a second modem by the gate as well? Regular ethernet is good for a few hundred feet at best. You'd need to step up to fiber beyond that and it will just add additional cost.

Use P2P radios. I prefer ubiquiti

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Make sure of how much power you actually need, and plan to that. Get a Buck/Boost transformer and connect it at your source to increase the voltage ~10-15%. Then do your calcs for voltage drop. If you only need ~7 amps, and you boost the voltage by 10% to 132, for 900 feet you'll be able to run with 2 x#8, boost it higher and you can get by with #10.

Personally, if your trenching anyway, put a fiber in. You can get a pre-terminated cable pretty cheap and it's a lot less fiddly than dealing with a WiFi connection, and more reliable.

P2P ethernet radios are way cheaper than that. Ubiquiti is what i prefer

 

[jeepxj]

Use P2P radios. I prefer ubiquiti

in theory this is also an ideal situation for powerline ethernet. low bandwidth needs.

 

[minytrker]

Better/bigger battery, better/bigger solar array.

I already have the biggest 12v battery that will fit in my control box. I also upgraded the solar panel. I thought of multiple battery's and even bigger solar along with a inverter. It wouldnt be cheap and would require an external box along with dealing with more batteries.

The question is do you NEED 15a @ the gate? And what would it be for?

Need to run gate, led lights, power for wifi antenna, router, remote gate controller and a camera

Use P2P radios. I prefer ubiquiti

I have a pretty complex network with tp-link products. I have 2 internets, multiple switches, multiple ap's, over 100 clients. I have a fairly large house that I automated and am constantly adding automation to. My gate is one of the simpler if I had 120v there.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Need to run gate, led lights, power for wifi antenna, router, remote gate controller and a camera

Ok all of that doesnt take 15a

A ubiquiti nanostation runs on 24v and takes half an amp.

If you want to power the radio and a camera, you could go with an 8-port edgeswitch that can output 24v and 48v.

It will only pull a few amps @ 120v.

You dont need a network router. That would just complicate things. You already have a router on your network.

I have a pretty complex network with tp-link products. I have 2 internets, multiple switches, multiple ap's, over 100 clients. I have a fairly large house that I automated and am constantly adding automation to. My gate is one of the simpler if I had 120v there.

Ok and? Not sure what that has to do with running a P2P radio bridge to the gate. You can run one even with all that stuff...

 

[theoldwizard1]

I already have the biggest 12v battery that will fit in my control box. I also upgraded the solar panel. I thought of multiple battery's and even bigger solar along with a inverter. It wouldnt be cheap and would require an external box along with dealing with more batteries.

So build a bigger box ! Do more research !!

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Your only other realistic option is 120V/480V transformers. Use the 18AWG referenced earlier.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Your only other realistic option is 120V/480V transformers. Use the 18AWG referenced earlier

Where is 18 gauge mentioned?

 

[mcbane]

With the possible exception of the gate power supply, you haven't described any load that requires over 100 volts, and your total load is maybe 500 watts. So potentially dont try to design things for 3% voltage drop at 15 amps.

 

[PoorUB]

Leave the battery to run the gate, add a battery maintainer/charger, just a couple amps @12 volts to the battery is all you need. The battery will take the load to open the gate and the maintainer has all night and most of the day to recharge.


With the battery maintainer, LED lights and the Wifi you might have two amps full load.

5% drop at 900 feet, 2 amps calculates out to 10 gauge, 4 amps, 8 gauge. Bump your drop to 10% and you can use 14 gauge.

 

[dcg9381]

Please re-read the post, I asking about running electricity that far. I already have a apollo gate opener running on a battery with solar for years now. I am not asking how to make my gate work. I want to run lights, the gate opener, have an outlet and a router on 120v. My 3rd cell remote opener in 10 years went out so Im switching over to wifi to remotely control and monitor the gate.

Not to push you on "what you don't want" - but I had a remote gate, same issue. I used an ubiquti for wifi, installed a PoE hub for 3 cameras, ran it all off a 12V battery and solar. These days can get some pretty good USB based LED spotlight systems, even solar.. At 900', I'd definitely stick to 12V.

The ubiquti wireless system was better for us than 800' of CAT5/6. We had damage every 2-3 years from proximity lightening and ethernet. If you're going to do it wired, make sure you get shielded wire and ground it.

I kept it all in a I group 24 or 27 "battery box" and used outdoor rated CAT5e. You'd probably need a 2nd battery box. I was running with 100 watts or so of solar. My charge controller would shut everything down if battery got too low (which would take 3-5 days of no sun).

I like the idea of running minimal power out there, if you have to do it, just keep a basic "charge circuit"..

 

[minytrker]

Not to push you on "what you don't want" - but I had a remote gate, same issue. I used an ubiquti for wifi, installed a PoE hub for 3 cameras, ran it all off a 12V battery and solar. These days can get some pretty good USB based LED spotlight systems, even solar.. At 900', I'd definitely stick to 12V.

The ubiquti wireless system was better for us than 800' of CAT5/6. We had damage every 2-3 years from proximity lightening and ethernet. If you're going to do it wired, make sure you get shielded wire and ground it.

I kept it all in a I group 24 or 27 "battery box" and used outdoor rated CAT5e. You'd probably need a 2nd battery box. I was running with 100 watts or so of solar. My charge controller would shut everything down if battery got too low (which would take 3-5 days of no sun).

I like the idea of running minimal power out there, if you have to do it, just keep a basic "charge circuit"..

Thanks everyone for all the advice.

I am going to give this route a try, getting a bigger solar panel setup with 3 batteries and going to shoot wifi to the gate. Not only will this be by far the cheapest option it will also be the quickest option. Now the hunt for the best inverter for this project...so many options out there.

 

[jeepxj]

Thanks everyone for all the advice.

I am going to give this route a try, getting a bigger solar panel setup with 3 batteries and going to shoot wifi to the gate. Not only will this be by far the cheapest option it will also be the quickest option. Now the hunt for the best inverter for this project...so many options out there.

heat gona be the biggest issue on keeping it alive.

Just curious: why not keep it all DC and low voltage? does your gate controller have a light circuit?

On mine I use the solenoid circuit to power a status LED I can see to make sure the gate is moving. you could use that signal to trigger a delay off timer circuit. tons of them on amazon.

can easily power the network stuff from low voltage.

 

[dcg9381]

Same question - Why not stay all DC? There are some great DC LED lights. The inverter is going to draw power all the time. All of the network equipment can be POE (DC).

The one lesson I learned is to use a solar charge controller with a low voltage shut down. That way you can't draw your batteries too low in the event that you get a week w/o sun, etc.

 

[FredWanaker]

$25 a month is $3000 at 10 years. What are the odds that a tree will fall, or lightning will do damage over the 900 feet in that time, and what will it cost to repair? I can't answer that but if you have trees, 900 feet is going to cause some root damage when trenching. Are there rocks where 900' suddenly becomes 1200' when you have to go around them, or you end up blasting to get thru them etc.. Are there any other properties closer to the gate where you could buy an easement from them to access power even closer than the 300'? Are you likely to accidentally damage the 900 foot run on a future project or it might get in the way? If there is damage in say 10 years, I don't think you will easily replace 900' of cable without some mid points to access it. We had damage to 300' of underground that fed a 12 story building I worked in once, and it took crews 3 days to get the old cable out and new cable in.

 

[minytrker]

SO my network equipment runs at 24v after looking. I do think I can do everything dc and avoid the inverter. If I have 2 big 12v deep cycle batteries running 24v will a 200watt panel be enough? My gate currently runs on a single 12v deep cycle battery on a 20watt panel.