Car garage rip off is this normal?

[dinhtuann123]

I’m in the vehicle trade (specialist dismantler) and as a result I have a pretty good handle on the price of car spares.

I recently booked my Transporter van in for a service
Oil filter
Oil
Air filter
Pollen filter
Fuel filter

I was quoted all genuine VW parts and the garage sent through a breakdown of labour and parts – fair enough.

A quick look on line then a call to TPS (trade parts specialists) and I can save myself £70 on the parts alone.

So why are garages aiming to make a huge profit on supplying the parts at more then RRP when I am assuming they will be able to get the for less than me with their trade discount.

Surely the garages labour rate should take into account their overheads etc and making a small profit on the parts is acceptable so long as you are still supplying them for less than joe public can buy them for.

 

[gmcgeo]

My understanding is as labor rates increase they try to increase profit on parts sold to cover the labor cost increase.
Not only that we are seeing a huge spike in price increases and you will see another in Jan, then another in Feb.

That being said right now we "my company" are seeing giant spikes in prices and then the work force asking for more money, new hires asking for more then starting wages allow. some places are taking wrong approaches and hurting the customer while others are just trying to keep afloat.

I was emailed yesterday from all my suppliers that Jan will be 8% increase and Feb 7th Another 8% increase in price products.

 

[wssix99]

£70 is a small profit, taking in to account their overhead. Your expectation of their overhead is probably very low.

To get those parts, employees need to spend time to make the order and go get the parts. Double what you think they get paid to cover all the taxes and other payroll expesnes that the employer pays and the employee never sees. Amortized costs of the building those people sit in, the computers they use, and the vehicle they drive to go get the parts also need to be taken into account. Even when parts are delivered and the garage doesn't incur all of the expenses, someone has to pay someone for all these things.

 

[denis4x4]

Grease Monkee charged me $96 for a standard oil change last month on a 2008 Chrysler T&C. 2020 Chrysler Pacifica oil change and service at the dealership last week was $121. It's the new "norm".

 

[PoorUB]

What many people do not realize if people on the street can often buy parts for not much more than a shop can. In fact I have a couple friends that both work for dealerships, not the same one, so I shop price quite often. I can often buy online for less than I can buy from either of these guys and they claim they are selling to me for 10% over dealer cost. I do not doubt that they are.

Shops are into it to make money. It will always be more money at the shop. They have horrendous overhead to pay and don't fell bad about marking up parts.

If you don't want to pay dealership markup them do the service yourself.

 

[m6z]

Same as it's ever been.

The dealer discount at most of the major auto parts stores was a joke, but that was 20 years ago, so thing could have changed. Maybe 5%.

Buying parts online and doing the work myself (when I can) has saved me a substantial amount of money over the years.

 

[FMB4]

If you don't like the estimate then find another shop until you're OK with it. Otherwise, do it yourself like did for nearly 50 yrs. Meanwhile, I'd like to know what your markup is in your 'specialist dismantler' trade.

Meanwhile, I just had a 5.5 qt. conventional oil and filter change at a Valvoline service center for under $45 USD (coupon saved me $7). Full synthetic would have been about $55 (with said coupon) IIRC.

 

[Bruce Amacker]

Until you own a repair shop you'll never understand why prices have to be high...….

 

[gmcgeo]

I just changed the oil in the jeep my self, Valvoline with filter cost me $50.00 just to do it my self. good deal you got

If you don't like the estimate then find another shop until you're OK with it. Otherwise, do it yourself like did for nearly 50 yrs. Meanwhile, I'd like to know what your markup is in your 'specialist dismantler' trade.

Meanwhile, I just had a 5.5 qt. conventional oil and filter change at a Valvoline service center for under $45 USD (coupon saved me $7). Full synthetic would have been about $55 (with said coupon) IIRC.

 

[slow]

what percent is that £70 savings, 10% or 50%? remember, the buying the parts from the shop often includes a parts labor warranty, so if the part fails, you won't be paying labor on the repair. (however for your normal maintenance job, that is not really as much of a concern as other work)

 

[Lassen Forge]

It's between you and the shop, but I know most shops won't work with customer supplied parts - or if they do, you sign a waiver that releases them of any warranty responsibility. If I told you how many times a shop I worked with didn't follow that - and we got unusable ****, and the customer expected us to deliver a factory new vehicle... and if we charged for it, then the customer would be pissed and tell us how awful we were...

Add to this, the shop is ordering the correct parts, paying for delivery, assuring they're the correct parts (and of the quality to offer a warranty, not some "Acme Tiawan" special), and assuring you that they will continue to work correctly. Yes, that costs them money, and no, they're not going to take that cost on the chin, just as they would not give away their shop help for free.

 

[PugetDude]

'Tis the Season.

 

[89MustangGX]

Maybe just me, but if I was paying for work to be done, I'd rather pay $150/hour for labor and MSRP for parts, than $100/hour labor and 200% markup on parts. I don't know which way ends up cheaper, and it probably depends on the job, but it feels better.

 

[ordpete944]

Shops have to make money. 70 pounds is not a rip off. You could always save the money and do it yourself in a few hours.

 

[scofo]

Shop owner, service writer, another tech and I went out to eat lunch at a BBQ joint owned by one of the auto shop's customers. The BBQ joint's owner set at the table for a moment to say hello and that his truck was running great. Before he got up he decided to voice a half hearted complaint of the parts markup after the fact. The other tech remarked that the BBQ place got $2 for brown water (iced tea). That got some snorts of laughter, the BBQ owner agreed and got up and left us to our lunch

 

[FredWanaker]

always amazes me when someone who gets $125 an hour complains about the other guy doing the same.

always amazes me when someone who gets paid not to work and play all day complains about the other guy earning as much as he does yet he/she gets out of bed every morning to go work.

A tradesman who comes to my house to work gets paid what I, a tradesman, earn for an hour of my time. Nothing more nothing less. If he/she has to spend an hour researching what I need, or two hours driving to pick up the parts, guess who is going to pay for that time, me. That is why there is markup on parts. You can pay for the time in the cost of parts, you can pay for it as labor, or you can go get them yourself. If you get bad parts and they break, you can pay to have the job done again.

 

[89MustangGX]

If he/she has to spend an hour researching what I need, or two hours driving to pick up the parts, guess who is going to pay for that time, me. That is why there is markup on parts. You can pay for the time in the cost of parts, you can pay for it as labor, or you can go get them yourself. If you get bad parts and they break, you can pay to have the job done again.

So do you give parts discounts to people when you have the parts on the truck already or when you know what the problem is without research? I don't understand why parts cost more because you spend time doing something. Why doesn't it just cost more time/labor? Or is it that you're afraid to charge $200/hour with market cost of parts when everyone else is $125 and marking up parts? Honest question- not saying anyone shouldn't get paid, it just doesn't make sense to me how it's done.

 

[kelpaso1]

Yet another thread bashing the auto mechanics trade. If you don't like the price, then do it yourself. I'm tired of this bashing. The plumber that comes to my house to fix a leaky tap or something and charges me 100 for 20 mins of work. Should I complain about that?

 

[89MustangGX]

Yet another thread bashing the auto mechanics trade. If you don't like the price, then do it yourself. I'm tired of this bashing. The plumber that comes to my house to fix a leaky tap or something and charges me 100 for 20 mins of work. Should I complain about that?

What if he charged you $60 for his time and $40 for a roll of Teflon tape?

 

[CTyankee]

I'm sure they can find a way to make money off you, inflated parts prices or not. As to whether it's normal or not, all I can tell you is when I worked in the parts department for a major foreign dealership back in the mid 70's, we doubled our wholesale price on OEM parts. Didn't matter if was 80 cents or 80 dollars.

 

[Wrench97]

I’m in the vehicle trade (specialist dismantler) and as a result I have a pretty good handle on the price of car spares.

I recently booked my Transporter van in for a service
Oil filter
Oil
Air filter
Pollen filter
Fuel filter

I was quoted all genuine VW parts and the garage sent through a breakdown of labour and parts – fair enough.

A quick look on line then a call to TPS (trade parts specialists) and I can save myself £70 on the parts alone.

So why are garages aiming to make a huge profit on supplying the parts at more then RRP when I am assuming they will be able to get the for less than me with their trade discount.

Surely the garages labour rate should take into account their overheads etc and making a small profit on the parts is acceptable so long as you are still supplying them for less than joe public can buy them for.

So when you go to a restaurant do you really think you are paying the same price for the Prime Rib that the restaurant pays?

 

[dcg9381]

So why are garages aiming to make a huge profit on supplying the parts at more then RRP when I am assuming they will be able to get the for less than me with their trade discount.

In the states, this is how it works:

• There is a "book rate" for labor. You're charged that rate, unless there is something that forces the job to take longer - you're charged for that problem too. There are several "books" of labor. Doesn't matter how long it actually takes. On the back end, mechanics that work for dealerships are incented for performance (throughput). They're paid an hourly wage, but also get bonuses if they can move work through quickly. If you've ever worked on any vehicle, you know that the first time you do it, it takes 4x+ as long.
• There is a "jobber rate" for parts. It's wholesale. Small shops and dealerships pay "wholesale" for parts and those parts are sold at retail rates. OEM mark ups can be huge, 100% or more. Independent shops get discounts, but not as much as your local OEM.

OEMs, hell, you can't even talk to the mechanic. There's another guy in between you and the mechanic that is really in a sales role. That guy (or gal) is incented on selling you additional service. Might be a fuel injection cleaning, might be something else.

Worst cases I've seen, I've had service managers send me photos of "dirty throttle bodies" that were not from my vehicle. I've had them say that manufactures recommend service at intervals not supported by OEM manuals. That ****, I can't stand... And frankly, I won't pay for. My favorite answer to service managers is "It's approved as long as it's in line with manufacturer's recommended maintenance". I have them write that on the ticket. And when they charge me for unnecessary service, I raise hell and don't pay. And the charges have been reversed every time so far, because they don't want me writing that review.

Ever wonder why shops won't "guarantee" their work on your parts, even if you bring OEM parts with a receipt? It's not just about the quality of the part (this can be an issue). It's about the margin on those parts.

Solution? The only one I've ever found is to find an independent mechanic that specializes in your particular make/model and is willing to be transparent about the cost of things.

Mechanics work hard. Shops have overhead, insurance, supplies, and deal with customer ****... But our "free market" definitely takes advantage of the uneducated.

The other side of this is that there are jobs that I can't do for the price. Basic (uncomplicated) oil change. I can do it for $5-$15 cheaper, but that's not worth it to me.

And there are jobs that I simply don't want to do anymore (Ram 6.7L diesel) as they've cost me too much blood / sweat... I can do the DSG on the VW for a lot less, but by the time I get that car in the air, dead level, remove the battery and part of the intake, I'll eat the $100-$150 in labor and those guys can do it in 25% of the time.

 

[kelpaso1]

r wonder why shops won't "guarantee" their work on your parts, even if you bring OEM parts with a receipt? It's not just about the quality of the part (this can be an issue). It's about the margin on those parts.

Solution? The only one I've ever found is to find an independent mechanic that specializes in your particular make/model and is willing to be transparent about the cost of things.

Mechanics work hard. Shops have overhead, insurance, supplies, and deal with customer ****... But our "free market" definitely takes advantage of the uneducated.

The other side of this is that there are jobs that I can't do for the price. Basic (uncomplicated) oil change. I can do it for $5-$15 cheaper, but that's not worth it to me.

Bringing your own parts would mean I would charge you extra labor on the loss I would make selling you the parts. Would you expect a plumber to pipe your house for the same labor if you supplied the pipe/taps/sink etc? Hell no!

 

[kelpaso1]

Bringing your own parts would mean I would charge you extra labor on the loss I would make selling you the parts. Would you expect a plumber to pipe your house for the same labor if you supplied the pipe/taps/sink etc? Hell no!

 

[Wrench97]

Bringing your own parts would mean I would charge you extra labor on the loss I would make selling you the parts. Would you expect a plumber to pipe your house for the same labor if you supplied the pipe/taps/sink etc? Hell no!

You left out come back and fix it for free when the fixture you supplied leaked.....................................

 

[Firebrick43]

Yet another thread bashing the auto mechanics trade. If you don't like the price, then do it yourself. I'm tired of this bashing. The plumber that comes to my house to fix a leaky tap or something and charges me 100 for 20 mins of work. Should I complain about that?

And he is supposedly in the automotive service business?

I mean I have never been a pro auto mech but I have on Helicopters, Tractors, and CNC machines. I have never once had a shop work on my vehicles, except to replace a sliding rear truck window under warranty and tires. I even do my own tires now. Never had someone change my oil.

 

[dcg9381]

Yet another thread bashing the auto mechanics trade. If you don't like the price, then do it yourself. I'm tired of this bashing. The plumber that comes to my house to fix a leaky tap or something and charges me 100 for 20 mins of work. Should I complain about that?

I'm not sure that this is "bashing mechanics" or the trade. I've got some good friends who are mechanics, and I see them get the down side of this industry too. I think what I object to (most) is a non-technical sales person (service manager) that sits between the mechanic and consumer. And perhaps the non-transparency of the industry, not the trade itself. Book rates are generally BS.

I absolutely value the **** out of a good independent mechanic and they'll get my business all day long. Same thing with a good plumber, good electrician, etc.

Best automotive deal in my opinion is a shop owner that can actually do the work and can speak to it. The price is the price (parts/labor) - if I don't like it, I can do it myself and eat that opportunity cost. But the industry - there is a reason why most of us don't send our spouses in to deal with automotive repairs... And it has nothing to do with the mechanic.

 

[FredWanaker]

sounds like some folks are snowed in and have cabin fever, or maybe Fauci Fatigue. Arguing over whether to charge $100 labor and $10 parts, or $60 labor and $50 parts is just like getting upset because someone thinks the chicken came before the egg, and another person thinks the egg came first, then someone else throws in a 10 cent question about where does the rooster fit in... .

 

[89MustangGX]

sounds like some folks are snowed in and have cabin fever, or maybe Fauci Fatigue. Arguing over whether to charge $100 labor and $10 parts, or $60 labor and $50 parts is just like getting upset because someone thinks the chicken came before the egg, and another person thinks the egg came first, then someone else throws in a 10 cent question about where does the rooster fit in... .

Sounds to me like unable to justify illogical pricing practices. Was just an honest question about why it's done that way. I still don't understand why you pay more for parts because of the cost of a shop or how far away you have to drive or having to do research on a problem. Why don't the parts cost what the parts cost and the rest of it is covered in labor or shop fees or a trip charge or something? So again, honest question...

 

[theoldwizard1]

I was quoted all genuine VW parts and the garage sent through a breakdown of labour and parts – fair enough.

Same issue on this side of the pond !

The repair facility either has the parts on hand or can get them same day. What bothers me is repair shops that will not install the parts that you bring.

 

[scofo]

Parts are very hit and miss now . The shop should or hopefully knows what replacement parts are worth putting on and they are staking their reputation on it. The customer without experiences might not see a difference between one part from manufacturer A and manufacturer Z, except the price.


A normal (not a GJ member) customer sees a price and that is that. Parts in most eyes are a "commodity" they are NOT.

To rightfully use one of 2ndGR examples, a Jeep CKP sensor from the OEM generally works, were as a CKP from some aftermarket suppliers might not work at all or give you an extended crank time that frustrates the tech and the customer.


For example a 1999 Cherokee 4.0 is towed in. RO. says, "cranks, no start". That's if you can get that much information on a repair order. Because it'll probably show up with a dead battery and "no start" on the RO but I digress.


Tech finds CKP sensor inop and replaces with a CKP sensor supplied by customer. It now starts but seems like a long crank time to tech but s/he test drives and returns to shop, restarts it several times and calls it good.


Vehicle is delivered and the fun begins

Customer "Well yeah, it starts but not like it use to, something's STILL wrong"

Tech "It only cranked before the CKP sensor, now it starts, what is the problem"?


Round and round we go.

 

[bwringer]

No, it's not a ripoff.

Yes, parts markup is perfectly normal the world over.

Yes, lots of things have started to cost more of late.


I work in a very, very different business, but we've found pretty consistently that things go much smoother if you just put one final number on the estimate and invoice (and make sure they're the same). Itemizing is just an invitation to fret, whine, and chisel.

 

[FredWanaker]

wow - the quality of many parts today is so junky that some shop owners I know spend more time trying to source a good part than working on a car.

 

[like2wheel]

Business 101:
Any business needs to make money on everything they touch.

The auto repair business is one of the toughest these days with the complexity of vehicles, the training, equipment & subscription costs, yet people continue to try to scrutinize every nickel they try to make.

 

[rharman]

I would never consider taking my own parts. However, years ago, the service writer at my Lexus dealership told me to buy Mobil One at Costco and bring it in and I'd save a lot. He had no trouble with that so I was fine doing so.

Now, I just pay the Honda dealer.... Everyone has to make a living.

 

[Citation]

A markup on parts is reasonable (how much of course can be debated). It's helpful to think of two extreme cases to explain why.
1. Something on your car is unplugged/loose/disconnected. No parts are needed to fix the issue. In this case I think we can all agree that we are paying 100% labor and that is reasonable.

2. You decide to use your local mechanic to buy a battery to install yourself. I understand this sort of parts only purchase almost never happens but let's use it as an example. That shop still has to take time to place the battery order, get the battery delivered and warranty the battery if something is wrong with it. If it shows up and isn't good, the shop has to take the time to return and reorder the battery. All of that costs them time which means it cost them money/overhead. Of course we would expect them to mark up the battery to cover those costs.

The most common case is when we have parts and labor. The labor to install an alternator is say 1 hr. The shop still wants to mark up the alternator because there is chance the part they bought is bad. In that case the markup on the part is a kind of insurance to cover having to install a replacement alternator if the first one was defective (in addition to all the costs mentioned in example 2).

As for what markup is "reasonable", well at some level that is what the market will accept. I'm sure there are going to be some cases where the part markup is great profit. Things that never go bad/have warranty issues, can be used in lots of alternative cars etc. On the other hand, I'm sure there are some parts that shops feel are always problematic/have high defect rates and then are costly to replace under warranty. Think about having to pull the whole dash apart a second time to warranty exchange an aftermarket heater core that was delivered with a leak! A typical $200 car battery can be swapped in 15min. A $100 heater core could take 10 hrs of labor. I would have a higher margin on that heater core.

 

[gregs]

There's more to owning and running a successful business than most people see. They dont understand that the retail labor and parts markup has to cover so many things. Yes there is the actual repair for the customer but then there is keeping the whole business going. There's all the behind the scenes things you don't see like insurance, property taxes, building maintenance, shop equipment, computer/software upgrades, etc. and other employees that you don't directly see. Then the business is floating a certain amount of there own cash/capital to cover all these expenses (to repair your car / house/?) on a daily basis. All the while hopefully reserving a certain amount of money for the slow days, the comebacks/warranties, the unexpected problems, the money losing days, etc. Most shops try to work with the same parts houses not only for better discounts, but better support for problems not to mention all the billing and paperwork involved. Then there's the situation where all this is an "investment" , just like any other investment, and should expect a return just like stock/bond/etc. A lot of shops dont have a retirement plan, so a certain amount of profit is hopefully being put aside for when that time comes. Now to comeback around to the customer, dont you want a shop thats there and open when you need it? Dont you want a shop thats still in business 6 months after they fixed your car so that if you have a problem they can help you? Or how about a shop thats profitable, gives back to the community and has been around for decades? How do you think that happens? There's always going to be someone trying to ripoff someone else, that's a "loophole" in how our economy works. But the local businesses that have been there for 5, 10 or more years probably arent the ones doing it. There the ones that used there own money for as long as the could when things came to a slowdown or stop to try and keep going. A lot didnt make it. If you are all right with getting someone that doesnt have much if anything invested in there business to do work for you, at least understand that they have the same invested in your repair / service.

 

[545_days]

It is common practice throughout industry for contractors on reimbursable contracts to charge both a markup on bulk materials purchased (usually 5%) as well as the labor for the buyers and indirect support staff.

Since customers at an auto repair shop really don’t want time sheets and invoices for every person researching, ordering, expediting, delivering, inspecting, etc. each part; simply marking up the parts is the commonly accepted method of covering these costs.

 

[brownbagg]

my company make me get oil changes at the quick lubes, they want documentation on the company truck. On the cheap its $65, most time $90

i got the same truck at home and buying oil at wally world, its still $40

 

[kbeefy]

To be profitable you need to be close to 50% profit margin.
That makes alot of people butthurt.

If you don't want to keep your local shop in business then do it yourself.
Don't ***** about them doing it at a loss.