Table Saw: Reinvest with Current, or Start Anew?

[mbdslpwr]

Hello. I'm an entry-level woodworker -hobbyist- with a little budget to get going on woodworking. My current table saw functions fairly well but feels basic. The top is weighty and the cast iron extensions are nice - I like the stability and width. In- and out-feed depth are somewhat wanting. The rip fence is only so-so, with some slop front to rear, forcing remeasures each time to stay parallel with the blade. The front fence rack on the extensions aligns poorly with the main table rack despite attempts to correct. There is sufficient power for my needs, and cuts well via a good tune and a fresh blade. Miter gauges are alright, but I've not attempted to take them out of square. Dust collection is a PITA. Haven't found a riving knife for it yet, but have a zero clearance insert en route.

I expect to do more box / cabinet work so panel cuts are forecast. I want a fence that sets readily and reliably. I want to retain the stability and quality of the table top and extensions. I want better dust collection.

I don't imagine a contractor saw would provide the stability I have now, or the precision I'm seeking, so I'm hoping those who've been down this road can correct me if I'm off the mark.

The question is, upgrade this thing or throw in for something new and, if so, what?

Also, for what it's worth, I plan on investing in a track saw for initial reduction of sheet materials, with the table saw being the next step in the process. Point: I don't need massive in- and out-feeds.

Thanks in advance for any wisdom here.

 

[turbowoodworker]

Sounds like overall you are pretty happy with your saw. Stick with it. TS are about two things: a good rip fence and horsepower. If you can upgrade either , great but sounds like you are in a fairly good place. Track saw is a good idea too.

 

[acer66]

I got by with a Bosch contractor saw and then later I added a Festool corded track saw, almost went with the Makita which had a big sale going but I was dreaming about the Festool for to long.

I mounted the Bosch saw to 4x8’ Polk inspired assembly/out feed table on wheels which was a great improvement.

I finally got my hands on another dream machine if mine an old Delta Unisaw.
It only has a 1&1/2” hp motor but boy does that thing cut through things.
So much more fun do work with than the screaming Bosch.
No riveting knife is the only drawback but I think a splitter will do.
Fence is the basic oem one which works fine for now and I use a Kreg miter gauge.

Working on getting it on wheels as we speak.

 

[acer66]

Speaking of track saws I build the first phase of my kitchen cabinets with a 12” speed square to square things up and I now am a proud owner of a rail square and it is amazing how accurate it is and how much it speeds up things.

 

[seber]

The only way to get control of sawdust is a cabinet saw. While it may be possible to attach a good aftermarket fence to that saw, they are really meant for cabinet saws. Right now on my local marketplace there are six unisaws for sale at $250 and one for $350. That is the direction I would go.

 

[tarmy]

Cabinet saw for the win. I started with a Powermatic contractors saw…with a Oldham blade and good fence. Get good blades because they do make a difference And a good fence is a must. I eventually sold the contractors saw and got this and added things as I needed them.

 

[Dumber than lumber]

Cabinet saw for the win. I started with a Powermatic contractors saw…with a Oldham blade and good fence. Get good blades because they do make a difference And a good fence is a must. I eventually sold the contractors saw and got this and added things as I needed them.

That is a whole bunch of saw!!
How well does it move around when you have to shift it? Is that easy for one person?
I bought a used 10" Jet saw about that size (but not quite as nice). My sliding table is larger than yours, but your area to left of blade is bigger.
To the OP - table saw will definitely cost you some floor space, but there are lots of deals to be found on Craigslist in my experience. We rented a very large truck with a lift gate to collect mine and bring it home.
Good luck with your search.

 

[tarmy]

That is a whole bunch of saw!!
How well does it move around when you have to shift it? Is that easy for one person?
I bought a used 10" Jet saw about that size (but not quite as nice). My sliding table is larger than yours, but your area to left of blade is bigger.
To the OP - table saw will definitely cost you some floor space, but there are lots of deals to be found on Craigslist in my experience. We rented a very large truck with a lift gate to collect mine and bring it home.
Good luck with your search.

Moves great. That is a custom frame I built and mounted 5” ER Wagner swivel/lockable castors. I learned a long time ago to get good, no flat spot, castors.

 

[txvwnut]

I’d say keep what you got and build an out feed table for it and upgrade the fence. You should be able to get what you need out of that c-man without dropping a ton of cash on a new saw. I’ve seen a lot of guys take a saw that size and build a melamine table around with an upgraded fence and do amazing work.

 

[tyyost]

I don't imagine a contractor saw would provide the stability I have now, or the precision I'm seeking, so I'm hoping those who've been down this road can correct me if I'm off the mark.

I had a small craftsman table saw like that years ago. It had 1/2 Hp motor and ran 8” blades. I despised using it, the fence was difficult, and it seemed underpowered. The arbor was small and the bearings were not at all comparable to professional grade gear.

Fast forward some years, and I’m using a Bosch 4100 more than my Grizzly cabinet saw because 220 power is an issue in my current circumstances. In your case I would be looking at a minimum for a 1 1/2 hp contractors saw or cabinet saw with a t square fence. Looking at the NH Craigslist you could get a lot for your money in a tablesaw. If you have the space you will never regret a cabinet saw.

 

[ez-duzit]

Look for a PM 66 or Unisaw in good condition and with a good fence.

 

[LeonardY]

Hello. I'm an entry-level woodworker -hobbyist- with a little budget to get going on woodworking. My current table saw functions fairly well but feels basic. The top is weighty and the cast iron extensions are nice - I like the stability and width. In- and out-feed depth are somewhat wanting. The rip fence is only so-so, with some slop front to rear, forcing remeasures each time to stay parallel with the blade. The front fence rack on the extensions aligns poorly with the main table rack despite attempts to correct. There is sufficient power for my needs, and cuts well via a good tune and a fresh blade. Miter gauges are alright, but I've not attempted to take them out of square. Dust collection is a PITA. Haven't found a riving knife for it yet, but have a zero clearance insert en route.

I expect to do more box / cabinet work so panel cuts are forecast. I want a fence that sets readily and reliably. I want to retain the stability and quality of the table top and extensions. I want better dust collection.

I don't imagine a contractor saw would provide the stability I have now, or the precision I'm seeking, so I'm hoping those who've been down this road can correct me if I'm off the mark.

The question is, upgrade this thing or throw in for something new and, if so, what?

Also, for what it's worth, I plan on investing in a track saw for initial reduction of sheet materials, with the table saw being the next step in the process. Point: I don't need massive in- and out-feeds.

Thanks in advance for any wisdom here.

I used that same model for years. I built a lot with it.
If budget is your main concern. I would swap out the belt for a segmented one. The saw will run smoother and it will also transmit more power. That's assuming your motor is good.
The fence and miter gauge are not great. I would upgrade to woodpecker or Incra one. Once you've done that your saw will do some amazing things.
When I finally upgraded, I just took the fence and miter gauge and installed it on the new table saw.

As far as dust collection you need to get a good cyclone system. Seal off as much of the saw as possible.

I now have a Grizzly 1023.

Best of luck to you.

 

[mbdslpwr]

Thank you for the responses so far.

1. I had thought about fence and miter upgrades I could bring to a subsequent table saw but wasn't certain how easy or difficult installing / transferring could be.

2. Current saw is 10" and 1hp. Runs well for what I've done, though admittedly the saw's not been worked hard.

3. Adding a melamine table and a new fence is an option. Total available space is a single bay in a 2-car garage. Size management must be a strongly considered decision.

4. Sealing off the saw can be done; will take some effort, certainly, given the stand on which it's mounted.

5. No more NH - updating profile now...

 

[loganb]

With it being a 10" blade and a 1hp and you don't plan on cutting a lot of 8/4 hardwood...I think the current saw could be continued in service...at some point if you continue down this wood butcher path you will likely outgrow it but with finite money and more casework in the future I agree that a tracksaw may be a better usage of capital. Had it been an 8" blade model I would've said be hunting for something newer.

To improve your accuracy/safety I'd look at:
-Miter sled's....look up the 5 cut method for adjusting/squaring one
-Keeping blades sharp and changing for the cut...with 1hp you don't have a lot of "extra" power there so make sure your blade is correct for the cut and you're buying quality and keeping it sharp
-Never used that fence, but a repeatable, consistent fence can't be overstated so if it's giving you fits look for something different. I had a Jet fence on my Unisaw and loved it

 

[TJMtl]

I sold my Bosch table saw to clear up garage space, and when the need to do some plywood cutting arose, I got a Festool TS75 and a sheet of styrofoam insulation to cut on. I love it, and the edges are so crisp! I don't need a table saw for what I use it for.

I highly recommend it, with the TSO parallel guide system for box/cabinet work that you mention.

 

[Renegade1LI]

I would look for a good used PM66 or Unisaw,3 or 5 hp you can't beat these saws, simple & powerful, easy to repair. A good fence, feather boards will help with safety & accuracy, if you really want to improve safety with quality add a power feeder. Here's a few pics of the roller base I made, added some storage. At the very lest buy or make a couple feather boards, really increases safety & quality, next is hooking up dust collection

 

[jonshonda]

Imho a typical homeowner table saw is not meant for processing large sheet goods. Yes, big saws with large in/outfeed tables can make the work easier, but cutting a 4x8' sheet down by yourself is just not any fun even on a big saw.

Imho you need at least a 5x5ft in-feed and 9x5out-feed table, and two guys to process.

A track saw, a couple saw horses, some nice straight 2x4 braces to connect the horses together, and 2" rigid insulation combined with a track saw, and nice shop vac or dust collector will be a much easier, cleaner, and safer way to break down sheet goods.

 

[PoorUB]

The only way to get control of sawdust is a cabinet saw. While it may be possible to attach a good aftermarket fence to that saw, they are really meant for cabinet saws. Right now on my local marketplace there are six unisaws for sale at $250 and one for $350. That is the direction I would go.

$250-$350?? Older and no fences I assume? i see the 50's models stripped for around $500.
Around here a later Unisaw, 1990's version sell for $1500 and up. I know of one that sold for over $2,000 lately!

I just bought this one for $900 and felt I got a good deal. I am in the process of making a different rolling stand and out feed table.

 

[RTM]

I'd invest in the upgrades for a current user. Most current <$1k TS seem to be garbage. Buddy looked at the SawStop and one other 2years ago, both had hollows in the castings near the blade. If you wanna do a restore of a vintage one later, fence miter etc should be portable. If you are only doing boxes, do you need a huge indeed outfeed area?

 

[acer66]

$250-$350?? Older and no fences I assume? i see the 50's models stripped for around $500.
Around here a later Unisaw, 1990's version sell for $1500 and up. I know of one that sold for over $2,000 lately!

I just bought this one for $900 and felt I got a good deal. I am in the process of making a different rolling stand and out feed table.

Yeah, those would be great deals here if they are in working condition no matter the age.

 

[tyyost]

I just can’t see putting cash into the saw you have by adding a fence and all sorts of accessories to get where you are going. The price of the parts won’t get you ahead at all, and buying up, regardless of current location is a safe bet.

A new Grizzly with a decent fence is $1250, so if you set that as your top end I’m sure you can find something better local. The track saw beats a tablesaw on long sheets of plywood, and a great tool in the toolbox. I would t want to work without one, but a Makita corded, 110” track, a set parallel guides and a square and you are back in Grizzly territory.

 

[LeonardY]

Several things I forgot to mention. Get a high quality blade, like a Forrester woodworker 2. Freud makes some nice blades too. I would also get a thinner version. Along with a blade damper. I would also get dedicated ripping blade. Keep a few cheap combination blades for cutting **** wood.
Use a table and blade lubricant. Bostik makes a very good product.

Glidecote V207501 Woodworking Aerosol Lubricant: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement

Glidecote V207501 Woodworking Aerosol Lubricant: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement

www.amazon.com

Glidecote V207501 Woodworking Aerosol Lubricant: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement

Glidecote V207501 Woodworking Aerosol Lubricant: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement

www.amazon.com

Forrest Blades

Forrest MFG focuses on high end circular saw blades and dado sets for woodworkers who demand the perfect finish.

www.forrestblades.com

Saw Blades - Freud Tools

Learn how Freud's saw blades are precisely the best in quality and performance.

www.freudtools.com

Amazon.com

 

[shoeless]

OP, I have the exact same saw in my garage, same stand even. I spent probably around $200 (probably what this saw it worth) replacing the pulleys, belt, some bearings, and installed the PALS alignment kit. The saw runs very smooth, quiet, and square, it cuts very nice. That said I feel its a bit of a waste as the fence *****. It is never square, and it can be off in either direction. It does lack a bit of power, I am using a thin kerf blade.
I have been tempted by several PM66s and Deltas (that already have good fence systems) I've seen online around for sale locally. I just don't really have the room for a full cabinet saw and in/outfeed tables.
I want to do some cabinets as well. I have been thinking a track saw might be the way to go. That way I can use it to cut down sheets and this table saw to finish them up. On the other hand, I'm not crazy about spending more money on the table saw to add a good fence as I do feel it needs more power. That said, this was my grandfather's saw, so it's got some sentimental value. In all honesty though if I would do it all over again, I would get a full cabinet saw with more power and a better fence and dust collection, just think it would be easier to use overall.

The beveled cuts were done on the table saw. This was just after cutting, no sanding.

 

[pfaustus]

Table saws are one thing where newer is generally better. New saws, even relatively cheap ones (but not the $100-200 little things), have vastly better fences than the saws Sears sold our grandfathers. In fact, they are probably better than those old craftsman saws in every way. You have to go pretty high up the food chain (unisaw or better) to reach the point where the 50s-60s product is better than middle range new stuff, and even then it still needs a new fence. If you are buying used (and why not?) just crossing craftsman off the list will make life easier.

 

[Renegade1LI]

I have to say my old man did a lot of nice work with an old cm saw, but he probably could have been more efficient & got it done quicker with a lot less set up time had he invested in a better saw. When you know your saw & can count on the fence always being true it saves time, the beismeyer fence on my PM66 is spot on and doesn't budge, with a quality blade makes using it a pleasure. I also bought a track saw a few years ago & now it's indispensable for breaking down sheet goods. So really if it's in the budget a cabinet saw of 3hp & a track saw are really a great combination for the home shop. I have found that using the track saw on a bench with a 4 x 8 sheet of rigid styrofoam below the work piece really speeds up breaking down sheet goods.

 

[mbdslpwr]

Checking in tonight after letting this post brew a couple days. Appreciate all the feedback and am looking into several of the proposed solutions - mostly a fence and miter I can transfer to another saw later - and equipment. Track saw is affirmed as the first tool to attack sheet goods, so that'll happen. Still interested to hear other table saw viewpoints if you have them. Thanks!

 

[mbdslpwr]

OP, I have the exact same saw in my garage, same stand even. ...

Interesting similarities!

How do you manage dust collection?

 

[txvwnut]

My Jet has a funnel that mounts between the say body and the stand for a dust bag, so I got an adapter to be able to hook it to my dust collection setup. You'll never really get a total dust free setup for a table saw but you can keep it to a minimum.

 

[exmaxima1]

I had a 50's CM saw for many years, and replaced the fence with a Biesemeyer---it was like a bought a new saw! Later I replaced the v-belt & pulleys with a poly-V belt kit (I think they were from a later model Ridgid saw). I got it on the auction site years ago, but don't know where you can buy it now--see pic. So smooth, quiet, and low friction that the blade would take nearly 30 secs to wind down.

Later yet I upgraded to a '69 Unisaw (like Norm Abrahms) but it had a crappy "Jetlock" fence. I installed the Biesemeyer fence onto it and added an Osborn miter gauge. The point is that most everything can be upgraded gradually, or take the plunge depending on your budget.

 

[csp]

I spent the money on a Delta fence for my Craftsman 10", which is several years newer than the OPs and I don't regret it one bit. Also did a few other upgrades that are common, segmented belt, zero clearance insert etc. It was used to cut the plywood for several cabinets in my garage and did a good job of it. Now that I have a track saw it doesn't come out of the machinery shed very often.

Honestly could care less about dust collection as it's used so infrequently and if there's a big project I just break out the broom and dustpan at the end of the day.

 

[shoeless]

Interesting similarities!

How do you manage dust collection?

Roll it outside. Garage is too hot anyways until I can get it insulated and air conditioned.

Was thinking about getting one of these to put under the saw housing.

https://www.rockler.com/tabletop-dust-fitting



BTW, this is where I got the belt, pulleys, the PALS setup and alignment tools.
https://www.in-lineindustries.com

I replaced the arbor shaft bearings with parts from Accurate Bearing.
I believe I had to call to order them. My invoice shows it was part # 6202 LL 5/8 TP. I pulled mine out before calling to verify sizing.
I found them on some other woodworking forum. They said to speak with a particular person, my invoice says Lynne was the salesperson.
https://www.accuratebearing.com/

 

[mbdslpwr]

Appreciate all the feedback. Think I'll hunt down a fence rail / fence upgrade and, if I go deeper into the rabbit hole, I'll pull it across to a new saw. Other recommendations besides Delta? Track saw will come separately. Miter gauge is third item on the list. Rest of the original saw is good at present. Will update here once I make a change. Thanks, all!

 

[jonshonda]

This is my heavily modified Craftsman 113.xxxx table saw. I added a Beisemeyer fence system, but swapped out everything but the physical fence in favor of very heavy gauge angle and tubing.

The fence is now as accurate as anything you could buy regardless of price. While it might not have the power, it has everything else.

 

[jonshonda]

The Delta T2 setup is well regarded as an alternative setup.

 

[foghorn1966]

jonshonda, I really dig your 2x4 saw cart. OP I'm pretty sure you would be happy with any Beis/T2 style replacement fence. The import ones I've seen in showrooms up here (Craftex/King) are & seem very sturdy. Jet/Grizzly would be ok options as there are prob only a couple of plants making them.

 

[brianh]

I had that exact saw for years I boxed the bottom and hooked dust collection to it. Made a lot of furniture with it. Replced it with a delta unisaw I got ridiculously cheap at an estate auction. Saw is now in use by my brother in law. It had its quirks but a much better saw than what you will get new unless spending a lot. Use wax on the fence rails.

 

[jonshonda]

jonshonda, I really dig your 2x4 saw cart.

Thanks! Comes in handy with everything stored on and the big casters mean it wheels around well.

 

[mbdslpwr]

Christmas treated me alright. New zero clearance insert and the Rockler Miter Gauge with telescoping fence. Still sorting out the fence answer. The slot-to-bar fit was ****, so went to a friend's house and drew it down to spec. Slot was ~.002" shy of .750" on average across multiple measurements and the bar was the same on the high side (~+0.002"). I figured it was the powdercoating, but what do I know.

Did three runs of grind the miter bar, sharpie-dykem to ID high / low spots, repeat. Runs smooth now. Except the fence, when telescoped, cantilevers in the slot and binds on the open cast iron table extensions. Maybe I took the bar down too far. Anyways, I fully expect this will rectify if/when I move to a T-slot and add in the T-slot washer. Seems like if it ain't one thing, it's another.

 

[bubinga]

Roll it outside. Garage is too hot anyways until I can get it insulated and air conditioned.

Was thinking about getting one of these to put under the saw housing.

https://www.rockler.com/tabletop-dust-fitting



BTW, this is where I got the belt, pulleys, the PALS setup and alignment tools.
https://www.in-lineindustries.com

I replaced the arbor shaft bearings with parts from Accurate Bearing.
I believe I had to call to order them. My invoice shows it was part # 6202 LL 5/8 TP. I pulled mine out before calling to verify sizing.
I found them on some other woodworking forum. They said to speak with a particular person, my invoice says Lynne was the salesperson.
https://www.accuratebearing.com/

I heard Lynn retired.
Maybe she's back?

 

[shoeless]

I heard Lynn retired.
Maybe she's back?

Could have, my order was in 2018.