The ?BEST? Cordless Tools

[RedOak]

Although there's no doubt that there's more than enough cordless tool discussion to go around, I'd like to get into why alternative brands my (or may not) be a better choice to the big three: Milwaukee, Makita and Dewalt.

I don't get a lot of computer time these days, but, based on my research, it would seem that the Bosch battery platform may be the highest performer presently out there, so my first question is: Is it more important to concentrate on the battery platform for highly-used tools -- like a 1/4-inch impact driver -- than it is to focus on the "specs" for a tool like this?

We started our foray into cordless tools by purchasing a 15-piece Makita tool set way back when they ruled the roost. As all things "cordless" evolved, we were wowed by the diversity of the Milwaukee cordless tool line, so we began investing in their tools...but, just when I thought that Milwaukee was the final word on cordless tools, I was surprised to see more than one video test illustrating how Milwaukee quality control let a Hitler "single-ball" version of their main cordless tool out of their manufacturing plant(s).

I'm sure that many of you are very aware of what I'm writing about here, but I'll elaborate a bit more for those who may not. The tool that I'm referring to is the Milwaukee 1/4-inch M18 cordless impact driver -- arguably the most popular tool in any cordless tool line -- that won't hold "binding" bits when they are withdrawn from their work. Some folks may see this as "blip" in an otherwise great tool line, but I see it as an all too common business philosophy that places cutting corners above overall quality: especially after a given brand becomes "iconic." Anyway, I saw this as a sign that we should start looking for alternatives to the "Big 3," but I'd like to read some productive thoughts on what the GJ Tool Board has to say about this.

P.S. - I'm not looking for a discussion about which brand is "the best." Instead, I'd like to know if there are good alternatives to the most popular cordless tool brands that we've all invested our hard-earned into in the past.

 

[gmcgeo]

interested to see what comes out of this discussion and the alternatives out there.
I never really took thought to an alternative cordless, but if there is one out there id give it a try.

 

[engineer2]

I've been using my Makita LXDT01 impact driver almost daily for nearly 10 years. It and its 18V batteries work as good as the day I got it. It's starting to look like one of those beat up contractor's tools you see for sale on Craig's List. It's my most used cordless tool.

The other day I posted who makes what. I'll see if I can find it. Go brushless no matter what brand you get.
Impact drivers are a (thankfully) mature market. Manufacturers have the basics down, new models just add fancy features.
Found it:

Company sales 2019-ish, Major cordless brands in bold	Hand/Power Tools	Global Market Share
Stanley Black & Decker Inc. (SBD, DeWalt, Craftsman brand, Mac, Porter-Cable, Bostitch)	$7.14 Billion	14.0%
Robert Bosch	$6.2 Billion	12.2%
Fortive Corp. (Fluke, Danaher, several industrial companies)	$6.0 Billion	11.8%
Techtronic Industries Company Limited (TTi) Milwaukee, AEG, Ryobi, Homelite	$5.04 Billion	9.88%
Hilti Corp.	$4.3 Billion	8.43%
Illinois Tool Works Inc. (Hobart, Miller Electric, Paslode)	$3.6 Billion	7.06%
Makita Corp.	$3.5 Billion	6.86%
Snap-on Inc.	$3.4 Billion	6.67%
Emerson Electric Co. (Greenlee, Textron, Ridgid partners with TTi)	$1.9 Billion	3.73%
Apex Tool Group, LLC. ( Gearwrench, Crescent)	$1.5 Billion	2.94%
Hitachi Koki Co., Ltd.	$1.2 Billion	2.35%
Chervon Holdings Ltd. tool Co. in China (Ego, Flex, Skil, Kobalt)	$630 Million	1.24%
Textron Inc. >> (sold to Emerson in 2018)	$600 Million	1.18%
TTS Tooltechnic Systems (Festool)	$400 Million	0.78%
Ideal Industries, Inc.	$360 Million	0.71%
Positec Tool Corp. (Rockwell, Worx)	$300 Million	0.59%
JPW Industries, Inc. (Jet, Wilton, Powermatic, Baileigh)	$150 Million	0.29%
Ingersoll Rand Inc.	$112 Million	0.22%
Others: Home Depot Husky made by several above), Lowe's, Harbor Freight, and sub $100 million sales)	$4.67 Billion	9.2%
TOTAL	$51 Billion	100%

 

[RedOak]

engineer2... Just like you, I've been using an 18VDC Makita 1/4" impact driver for many years. With the exception of a "Made In Japan" version that came out, some years after we bought the original 15-piece kit I mentioned in the OP, we've used the same two Makita 1/4" impact drivers for what seems like eons. The problem with our Makita cordless tools [read: we also own corded Makita power tools] is that the battery platform is failing now. In fact, we recently had (4) 4.0Ah Makita 18VDC batteries fail within a week of one another. We've also had a few others that are "beached" and, specifically cannot be charged, so I've given some though to repairing the defective battery packs (I think we have about a ten dead soldiers by now)...but have you seen the YT videos covering this operation? They look "sketchy" to be kind.

 

[MushCreek]

I bought my Milwaukee M18 set way back when they first came out. I built my entire house with them. All of the original tools are still working, and I've added a few more over the years. I've had only one battery go bad in my collection of 7 batteries. Good enough for me.

 

[gmcgeo]

I bought my Milwaukee M18 set way back when they first came out. I built my entire house with them. All of the original tools are still working, and I've added a few more over the years. I've had only one battery go bad in my collection of 7 batteries. Good enough for me.

I have the same, however i buy aftermarket batteries now. some say they are junk but i have had no issues

 

[theoldwizard1]

I would leave Bosch out because of their price. Good tools, but expensive.

Makita and Rigid are really the only viable alternatives to Red and Yellow.

The other decision to make is voltage. I started with M12 and I have seen no compelling reason to cha be ... so far !

 

[KnurledNut]

We've also had a few others that are "beached" and, specifically cannot be charged

What voltage are they reading?
Its possible jumping them will get them working again.

 

[Maui]

I bought a Ridgid combo drill and 1/4” impact driver at Home Depot on black friday for a great price. What I found out that day thanks to one of the older sales guys there is that Ridgid comes with a full lifetime warranty for the tools and the batteries. The others, as far as I know, don’t.

 

[jd_1138]

I am in Makita and Ryobi. Helps to be in 2 lines, as it gives you greater flexibility in picking tools. Really not much extra cost, as most kits come with a charger and batteries anyway. I think my initial Ryobi set was only $110 and came with a 1/4 impact driver, regular drill, light, recip saw, 1.5 amp and 4 amp batteries and a charger.

Then I added some stuff to it like radio, extra drill, circular saw. When working on a large project with extra people, it's cool to give a few people drills. And it's nice to have drill bits in one drill and a driving bit in the impact driver.

We built a deck at a dsabled relative's house, and we had 6 drills. I bought a heavily used and discolored Makita impact driver for like $20 off ebay, but still works. Half my drills were dirt cheap ugly ones off ebay.

 

[Trapps]

Disclaimer - I own a fairly complete set of Bosch 18V.

I commonly use Milwaukee and Makita and I think performance wise they're all pretty close. Some companies do a specific tool better than the others, but by and large, you're good with those three. My experience with DeWalt was less than stellar - I had an early 18V cordless drill. The batteries were junk and expensive. I'm certain all brands were back then, but even when new I was unimpressed with the yellow. Not true for their corded saws, which I still own and use. There are some notable aesthetic (overmolding for example), and more importantly, ergonomic differences. For example the red impact drivers and drills feel 'smaller' and 'thinner' in my hand than either the blue or teal. While not as important as it is with a weapon, 'feel' is a legitimate criteria, in my opinion at least.

I've been close several times to adding a second battery platform due to blue's clearly lacking scope of product offerings. My experience, while anecdotal, has been excellent. I love the commitment to forward and reverse battery compatibility. The tools are accurate and durable. Not available everywhere and a step up in price. But not to festool levels. If Bosch has the tool range you need, it's an excellent option.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Might sound silly but the Earthquake line from Harbor Freight are actually really nice and powerful. I wouldn’t put it in front of the line but I’d say it’s up there for power tools. One guy at work has all Earthquake except his sawzall and the stuff holds up pretty darn good. I also had a good friend who was a mechanic who passed but that’s all he used as well at the end of his career when all his air stuff wore out. I have their 3/8 cordless ratchet I use at home and I have knocked it off the table, dropped it, hit it with things by mistake and there is a few scratches on it but not many. Used to have it at work but brought it home to replace with my line there which is team red. The one who passed was actually the one who told me how good they were I was in doubt so when I found that ratchet on sale I picked it up and I love it. Honestly they’d probably be my second choice if my first wasn’t available.

 

[IndyGarage]

Panasonic used to make excellent cordless - for many years they were far superior to the others. They invented the impact driver.

They were supplying Hilti for awhile. I don't see them available anymore. Maybe they just sold off the power tool division to Hilti.

 

[egdede]

I bought a Ridgid combo drill and 1/4” impact driver at Home Depot on black friday for a great price. What I found out that day thanks to one of the older sales guys there is that Ridgid comes with a full lifetime warranty for the tools and the batteries. The others, as far as I know, don’t.

If you register those batteries.

 

[RedOak]

What voltage are they reading?
Its possible jumping them will get them working again.

KnurledNut.... Would you mind elaborating on how to go about "jumping" the 18VDC Makita battery packs?

 

[engineer2]

I think jumping battery packs was for the old NiCd batteries. If you measure the voltage of a freshly charged Makita 18V battery it's actually 19.5V.

I used to have DeWalt. My yellow drill fell off a ladder. I pulled the trigger and it made a pop sound and died. After disassembly I found a field magnet broke off (it was glued on) and locked the motor. Pulling the trigger blew up the speed control. $80 in parts later it was as good as new.

I have friends with DeWalt and Milwaukee and they are excellent tools. I switched to Makita because that's what a lot of contractors around here use and Makita had the largest tool offering. Makita is now ramping up their 40V offerings, but they claim 18V will be around for a long time.

I broke my 3 year old Makita drill pulling a stubborn drain snake. Pulling hard made the gearbox come apart. It only had a snap ring holding the guts together. I complained to Makita and the sent me a free XPH07 drill. Good customer service!

 

[KnurledNut]

KnurledNut.... Would you mind elaborating on how to go about "jumping" the 18VDC Makita battery packs?

If they are over discharged, which was a common problem with the non-star batteries, the charger wont recognize them.
The low battery can be zapped to a higher voltage by using a fully charged battery.
There are several videos on YouTube about doing this, some i would never do.
I have found success with jumping the negatives together and positive only on the good battery, then taking the other end of that wire and tapping the positive of the bad battery a few times.
As with anything like this, proceed with a measure of caution. But i have done it numerous times and saved bricked batteries.
I like to use a DeWalt ni-cad as the good battery, as this lowers the safety risk a little.
I would wager that a lot of the non-star Makitas people have tossed were simply below charging voltage and needed jumped.
If your batteries are reading voltage, but its below 15v, this might work.

 

[engineer2]

Good to know.
Never run a Li-ion battery too low. No harm in putting the battery on the charger when it is only partly discharged. At the first sign of the tool slowing down, change out the battery. Never run it down to where the tool grinds to a halt.
Newer tools have electronics on board that shut the tool off if the battery gets to low or too hot. Even though the charger has a cooling fan, it's best to let a warm battery cool off before you put it on the charger.

Wife and I had identical NiMH toothbrushes. She put hers on the charger after every use and it lasted for many years. I repeatedly used mine until it wouldn't run anymore, and then put it on the charger. That killed the battery in a year.

 

[BTL-A4]

I'm a DIY homeowner and I've used the Black and Decker 20v stuff for a years now. The circular saw is a bit underpowered, and I have a drill that I got for $10 from the clearance table that is a bit underpowered, still works fine for my needs. The other drill and impact drill both have plenty of power. The cordless trimmer, blower and reciprocating saw suit my needs. The batteries are starting to not have as much run time as before, but I do leave them plugged in all the time.

I picked this brand because, at the time, they had all the cordless tools that I wanted at a reasonable price.

My buddy uses the Ryobi stuff. He's way harder on his tools than me and he's had no issues.

 

[RAS61]

Flex - were designed to compete with Milwaukee, believe their 24v battery is the biggest on the market, gets very good reviews, some think they're the best, check em out

 

[Fretters]

Personally, I like Bosch. I have both Bosch & Makita, but my preference is Bosch. Their weakness, IMHO, is simply their range of tools.

In my opinion, that tends to be the main decider between brands: Which brands range of tools caters best to your requirements.

 

[finn]

I like cordless Bosch, and have several pieces. I also have cordless Milwaukee and Dewalt. Makita is limited to corded tools, though.

I don’t feel disadvantaged by having multiple platforms. It’s simply not an issue to me.

I do think it’s irrational to judge a manufacturer on tools last made a decade ago. The 18v Dewalt comments come to mind.

 

[jonshonda]

FEIN and Metabo make some pretty expensive drills, not sure about the rest of their lines, But I can't imagine they only make an expensive drill.

 

[PZ 1]

engineer2... Just like you, I've been using an 18VDC Makita 1/4" impact driver for many years. With the exception of a "Made In Japan" version that came out, some years after we bought the original 15-piece kit I mentioned in the OP, we've used the same two Makita 1/4" impact drivers for what seems like eons. The problem with our Makita cordless tools [read: we also own corded Makita power tools] is that the battery platform is failing now. In fact, we recently had (4) 4.0Ah Makita 18VDC batteries fail within a week of one another. We've also had a few others that are "beached" and, specifically cannot be charged, so I've given some though to repairing the defective battery packs (I think we have about a ten dead soldiers by now)...but have you seen the YT videos covering this operation? They look "sketchy" to be kind.

Possibly a charger problem? I had a Makita with the problem of multiple bad batteries and because it was quite old just got a different drill, but think it may have been the charger not working correctly.

 

[RedOak]

PZ 1.... That's a very good thought, but, unfortunately, I already tried different chargers (we have several).

 

[RedOak]

I like cordless Bosch, and have several pieces. I also have cordless Milwaukee and Dewalt. Makita is limited to corded tools, though.

I don’t feel disadvantaged by having multiple platforms. It’s simply not an issue to me.

I do think it’s irrational to judge a manufacturer on tools last made a decade ago. The 18v Dewalt comments come to mind.

finn.... I appreciate your comments about judging older cordless tools, but we started moving away from Makita (our very first cordless brand) and toward Milwaukee only a couple of years ago, but, as soon as I decided to look into a Milwaukee 1/4" Impact Driver (the most used cordless tool we own), I discovered that Milwaukee actually produced [*** thousands] of these tools with a seriously flawed chuck....and, as I pointed out in the OP, as soon as a brand name becomes iconic, you better watch out. That's what this thread is all about.

 

[finn]

finn.... I appreciate your comments about judging older cordless tools, but we started moving away from Makita (our very first cordless brand) and toward Milwaukee only a couple of years ago, but, as soon as I decided to look into a Milwaukee 1/4" Impact Driver (the most used cordless tool we own), I discovered that Milwaukee actually produced [*** thousands] of these tools with a seriously flawed chuck....and, as I pointed out in the OP, as soon as a brand name becomes iconic, you better watch out. That's what this thread is all about.

If it’s a current or recent model, ok. Some of the comments, howev relate to tools that have been out of production for ten or more years, and were introduced ten years before that.
Technology evolves with time, and always will

 

[visionguru]

... Instead, I'd like to know if there are good alternatives to the most popular cordless tool brands that we've all invested our hard-earned into in the past.

For impact wrenches, Ingersoll Rand is the best, in terms of build quality and performance.

Here is an analogy,

Snap On : Gearwrench
Ingersoll Rand : Milwaukee/DeWalt

 

[RedOak]

For impact wrenches, Ingersoll Rand is the best, in terms of build quality and performance.

Here is an analogy,

Snap On : Gearwrench
Ingersoll Rand : Milwaukee/DeWalt

visionguru... I took a look at the IR cordless tools and one question came to mind right away: Do you prefer brush type motors and, if so, why do you like them more? As ever, I'm anxious to learn more about what's out there.

 

[Trapps]

I like cordless Bosch, and have several pieces. I also have cordless Milwaukee and Dewalt. Makita is limited to corded tools, though.

I don’t feel disadvantaged by having multiple platforms. It’s simply not an issue to me.

I do think it’s irrational to judge a manufacturer on tools last made a decade ago. The 18v Dewalt comments come to mind.

Perhaps I could have articulated it better. However, I did not judge a manufacturer. I judged one product, albeit based on my dated experience which I noted, from Dewalt. I do not have current experience with Dewalt cordless products and did not comment on them, pro or con.

I suspect that if I did have current experience with Dewalt cordless, I'd have lumped them in with my comments regarding Red, Teal and Blue, as offering generally similar performance.

For the record I do own several Dewalt tools, all of them perform well including a 20+ year old compound miter saw I use regularly.

 

[visionguru]

visionguru... I took a look at the IR cordless tools and one question came to mind right away: Do you prefer brush type motors and, if so, why do you like them more? As ever, I'm anxious to learn more about what's out there.

IR and all other cordless makers have moved to brushless motors. Brushed motors are previous generation tech.
Brushless motors are shorter and more powerful.

I started with IR W7150 1/2" (brushed). It's a powerful tool, without which I couldn't have been able to refresh the suspension of my rust belt Honda Accord. Not only it enabled me to loose some really tough bolts, but also to drive C-clamp ball joint press to replace bushings/ball joints.

I then upgraded to W7152 (brushless). The max torque is 1000 ft-lb (vs 700 ft-lb of W7150), nut busting torque 1500vs 1100. Embarrassingly, I haven't used it yet for 2+ years, and don't have first hand experience to share, other than that the build quality is superb.

My current IR lineup includes,
W7152 1/2" (20v brushless)
W5132 3/8"(20v brushless)
W1120 1/4" (12v brushed)
W1110 1/4" hex (12v brushed)
G1621 sander/polisher (12v brushed)

IR impact wrenches seem specifically designed for auto mechanics. I like my Milwaukee M18, M12 tools, but IR impacts are simply better in terms of build quality, ergonomics, and features.

 

[Vicks]

FEIN and Metabo make some pretty expensive drills, not sure about the rest of their lines, But I can't imagine they only make an expensive drill.

Metabo makes good stuff... plenty of them still made in Germany, of course they do manufacture a lot of tools in China too.

 

[Trapps]

I wish more companies would get on the CAS platform.

I understand the economics of smaller companies sharing the cost of battery development and consequently larger companies funding their own proprietary stuff. Still, one can dream....

 

[Maui]

If you register those batteries.

Thanks for the reminder! I just did.

 

[RedOak]

Vicks.... I can see that the second photo is of an 18VDC cordless Metabo Angle Grinder. The first photo (at the top) is not as apparent. The third photo (on the bottom) is also not obvious to me. If you don't mind, would you kindly let the thread know what first and the third photos depict? In other words, please write back and tell us what those tools actually are. I'd also like to know where the tools in the photos were made/built?

We're presently in the market for a good 1/4" cordless impact driver. Does Metabo make one of those?

 

[Vicks]

S

Vicks.... I can see that the second photo is of an 18VDC cordless Metabo Angle Grinder. The first photo (at the top) is not as apparent. The third photo (on the bottom) is also not obvious to me. If you don't mind, would you kindly let the thread know what first and the third photos depict? In other words, please write back and tell us what those tools actually are. I'd also like to know where the tools in the photos were made/built?

We're presently in the market for a good 1/4" cordless impact driver. Does Metabo make one of those?

Sorry about the lack of details in my post.

This one is a 18V Brushless 1/2” Impact wrench, the “400” stands for 400Nm torque (I’ve read reports that the loosening torque is much more - about 600Nm). The tool is made in Germany. I hope the 1/2” anvil is better visible in the below picture.


COO of the Impact Wrench is Germany


This one is a 18V Brushless drill with impact/hammer function The "I" in SB 18 LTX BL I stands for "Impact"). It’s rated at 120Nm and is probably one of the more powerful ones in that application. This tool is also made in Germany.

This box in which the hammer/impact drill is delivered


Contents of the box - impact drill, 2Ah battery (which i bought separately), handle (highly recommended to be used else the 120Nm can cause some damage/pain to your body parts), belt clip and magnetic bit holder


As I mentioned, this drill is made in Germany.


of the three cordless tools I purchased, only the angle grinder is made in China. They do make the corded angle grinders in Germany but I wanted cordless.

Yes, Metabo makes a 1/4" Impact Driver in the 12V (New) and 18V range -

17 for "Impact driver 18v" | Metabo Power Tools

www.metabo.com

I have used the Drill and the Angle grinder (but only a few times so far - i had been using corded tools for the last 10+ years, i'm only a amateur / hobby user) and very happy with them so far. I haven't had a chance to extensively use the 1/2" cordless impact wrench so far.

There are a couple of good youtube reviews of Metabo cordless tools if you want to know more details, I particularly like the Oz tool talk channel (bunch of Aussies talking tools in their wierd but likeable accents )


Hope this helps

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

I have an extensive collection of Bosch 18volt tools. I’ve had these for approx 14 years. I have had once motor replaced on one of four drills. I have 2 chargers and have replaced one of the original charger. All these tools are NICAD. Out of 6 batteries 4 are still functioning. I used these in my retirement business and used them extensively and by a number of assistants.
But I did my Nicad maintenance and so did everyone that worked with me. We had, I believe at least 2 rules one was
battery maintenance the other was if you took a tool put it back where you got it from.
I do have a fairly good variety of 12 volt Milwaukee and even some old 7.6 volt Makita that have been retired.
Noticed Snap-On is fairly high on the list @engineer2 supplied. You have to realize that SO only has to sell half as many as any other tool manufacturer to hit $ value. Just kidding.

 

[dnschmidt]

I'm a Milwaukee man but I have Bosch, DeWalt, and a lot a Makita as well. However, if we are talking the absolute best I'm going to go with Hilti. Don't screw with the boys from Liechtenstein. These are used on most major job sites by gorillas and they take the beating.

 

[RedOak]

I'm a Milwaukee man but I have Bosch, DeWalt, and a lot a Makita as well. However, if we are talking the absolute best I'm going to go with Hilti. Don't screw with the boys from Liechtenstein. These are used on most major job sites by gorillas and they take the beating.

I've seen many Hilti tools on job sites over the years, but I've never actually owned any. When it comes to cordless tools, on the other hand, I don't recall ever seeing anything with the Hilti label on it. Given their reputation, though, I'm sure that you're right.

I've been involved with traditional timber framing since I was a kid. Along the way, we've picked up tools made by Makita (in Japan) and ProTool/Hema, but the big name in power tools for timber framing is Mafell. We don't own any of their cordless stuff, but, if they're anything like their AC carpentry tools, they're probably pretty good. That's why I was so interested when Vicks made the post about the German-made Metabo tools.

If nothing else, the Germans have a very good reputation in the world of engineering. We own a strut-mounted circular track saw, for example, that's the best saw of its type that I've ever come across. While we're here in the States making plunge cuts with a loose pivot point, the folks at Mafell employ struts to raise and lower the blade straight up and down. They also had the common sense to design a blade guard that can be pulled away from the blade via a lever. Why is this important? Because it allows the user to stand the tool upright when the saw isn't in use. No more tipping your saw over on its blade guard with a minimal/unstable contact patch. The Germans actually spent the money to ensure that they're saws sit flat on their shoes: with maximum possible contact.

 

[M635_Guy]

For me, "best" isn't defined primarily by maximum power. I want enough power to do everything I need to do, but size and usability (modes, minimized twist and vibration, handle design, balance, etc.) are also huge for me. Overall, I've been very happy with Milwaukee across all of that, though I certainly see where folks would be tempted to have multiple platforms.