Raised tie ceiling joists in attached garage

[kbs2244]

You will be happy with both the height and the light.
I used a ridge beam and six 3 bulb fixtures for that reason.
(Two skylights, and white on a surfaces, also.)
I love the open, bright room I ended up with.

 

[Redwolf947]

You will be happy with both the height and the light.
I used a ridge beam and six 3 bulb fixtures for that reason.
(Two skylights, and white on a surfaces, also.)
I love the open, bright room I ended up with.

I only have 8 of 12 lights up and it's awesome bright in there without the white ceiling.

 

[Redwolf947]

I'm still working on finishing up some of the blocking to support the hopefully metal ceiling on the end walls and corners. I hope to insulate by fall. Then in spring I'll be able to do the rest...

 

[Redwolf947]

Its been awhile!!

I still haven't finished this.

I'm at a standstill as to how to finish things off..

I need to see if I can figure in an opening for crawl space access.

I think the weight of steel wins with r19 should be good enough

How to insulate the short roof rise?

I cant decide on wall material

Think lower dark gray in steel? The upper half of wall drywall or osb.

Should I add a roof vent? There is only one

But I cant seem to make up my mind....


Well I think the point of this thread is pretty much done.. I'll probably only add to my main thread from here on.. Any questions are welcome.. :thumbup I can answer here or there:

 

[spudley]

For access, either double up the ties and box out a 32" opening or squeeze through a 14 1/2" scuttle.

Menards has the lighter gauge steel panels that will easily support r19 fiberglass. But with an access, have you considered blown in?

Looks like the short roof rise is 2x4's which could be filled with 3" of foam board sealed with spray foam along the edges, leaving a 1/2" channel for venting. That only gets R15 but better than nothing. If it's 2x6's you're golden.

On the walls, I'd do drywall painted eggshell as per lighting guru Platonic Solid, but osb has dropped in cost to a reasonable level lately.

If you're heating, the experts would suggest more vents, in the soffit and near the ridge.

Just read your thread today. Nice job strengthening the structure for greater usage. Looks like it's stronger now than when built.

 

[Redwolf947]

For access, either double up the ties and box out a 32" opening or squeeze through a 14 1/2" scuttle.

Menards has the lighter gauge steel panels that will easily support r19 fiberglass. But with an access, have you considered blown in?

Looks like the short roof rise is 2x4's which could be filled with 3" of foam board sealed with spray foam along the edges, leaving a 1/2" channel for venting. That only gets R15 but better than nothing. If it's 2x6's you're golden.

On the walls, I'd do drywall painted eggshell as per lighting guru Platonic Solid, but osb has dropped in cost to a reasonable level lately.

If you're heating, the experts would suggest more vents, in the soffit and near the ridge.

Just read your thread today. Nice job strengthening the structure for greater usage. Looks like it's stronger now than when built.

Thanks for your thoughts.. The short roof rise is 2x6".. There are no soffit vents. The way its built I can't add them either . Maybe add a gamble vent...

Thank you for sharing and following along..

Mike

 

[Evilgoat]

This is the post that brought me to GJ! I'm glad I found someone as nuts as I am that's already tried this.

First off all this work looks incredible - really well done. I'm thinking about doing the exact same thing you've done (although not quite as dramatic of a raise). It seems the cheapest and fastest way to get a little extra height out of a low garage ceiling.

Since it's been a few years, are there any things you wish you had done differently? Everything still in good shape? Rafters sagging at all? I've been thinking about using the exact same screws, but couldn't decide if I should use the 5/16" x 3-1/8" that will poke through the other side a bit, or simply use the 1/4" x 2-5/8".

I'm planning on doing a steel ceiling as well, and I'm a little intimidated by cutting out boxes on the ceiling. Have you considered running a small bushing through the steel and surface mounting a box to the underside almost like it was in conduit? I figure that'd be easier than trying to flush mount the things in steel, no matter how thin.

Thanks again for sharing this.

Sam

 

[Redwolf947]

Welcome to the Garage journal Sam, I'm honored for your first post to be my thread..

Has it really been that long... Wow.. haha..

In short, everything still looks good. I took measurements before and after and occasionally sence.. no change.. There has at times been 4" of snow or so on it. Honestly I still worry a teenie tiny bit when its snowing hard with wet/heavy stuff but it has held up..

I have only one thing I didn't check before starting this project. I noticed after everything was done while looking at it from the outside that the roof has/had (could tell from old pics) a sag at the roof top and the outside wall was bowed out a little. Had I noticed this at the start of my project I could have fixed this issue with a temporary false wall, a couple of comealongs, and a house jack or 2. Oh well it is what it is.. I'm happy. Been saving $ hope to buy a lift soon I hope..

I did do a good amount of research on this. Well the posts say it all..

Hope this helps some on your decision..

I'm still fighting with how to properly insulate the roof from the top plate to the new rafter ties..

Well good luck and I'm glad I'm not the only crazy person to do this..
Mike

 

[Evilgoat]

It's well deserved honor!

My situation is a little different from yours for insulation as I've got a ridge vent and a couple gable vents (no soffit vents for me, either). I'm planning on using a those foam insulation baffles against the angled section of the ceiling for airflow, and then using batts against that.

It may seem silly since you'd only need it for that first few feet, but (allegedly) closed-cell spray foam is supposed to resist mold/moisture. I imagine you could put a sheet of plastic/paper up against the roof decking and spray some in the angled sections. It's not cheap stuff, though.

At least for now you have some built-in protection against ice dams! lol.

 

[1931S/X]

Nice job. I have to do the same project. I also have no soffit venting. The rafters only sit on the top plate with only a slight overhang of roof sheathing. In my case my garage is completely sheathed inside with plywood. Ceiling and all. Current current joist are spliced and braced 2x4.

I can’t decide to do the whole length or only
The area of the lift.

That ridge beam idea is cool too.

 

[Chris705]

Mike - may I suggest you look at foam spray directly to roof deck for the lower portion (sloped ceiling) to 16” above ceiling line. and then blow in cellulose in via the access hatch. There are some diy closed cell packs available..... use fiberglass or foam board (used on Craig’s list) cut to fit between studs.
Add second vent to other gable end.

 

[Redwolf947]

It's well deserved honor!

My situation is a little different from yours for insulation as I've got a ridge vent and a couple gable vents (no soffit vents for me, either). I'm planning on using a those foam insulation baffles against the angled section of the ceiling for airflow, and then using batts against that.

It may seem silly since you'd only need it for that first few feet, but (allegedly) closed-cell spray foam is supposed to resist mold/moisture. I imagine you could put a sheet of plastic/paper up against the roof decking and spray some in the angled sections. It's not cheap stuff, though.

At least for now you have some built-in protection against ice dams! lol.

Mike - may I suggest you look at foam spray directly to roof deck for the lower portion (sloped ceiling) to 16” above ceiling line. and then blow in cellulose in via the access hatch. There are some diy closed cell packs available..... use fiberglass or foam board (used on Craig’s list) cut to fit between studs.
Add second vent to other gable end.

Thanks to you both.. I will look into the closed-cell spray foam..

I'm hesitant to put any holes in the roof myself. I only have the one roof vent atm.. I really don't want to add a gable end vent as that's a pretty big hole to mess up haha. I suppose I could hire either out. . If I ever have the roof redone I could go with a ridge vent that could add a lot of air flow.. We will see..

Thanks again,
Mike

Thank you for following along, and for your comments..

 

[Redwolf947]

Nice job. I have to do the same project. I also have no soffit venting. The rafters only sit on the top plate with only a slight overhang of roof sheathing. In my case my garage is completely sheathed inside with plywood. Ceiling and all. Current current joist are spliced and braced 2x4.

I can’t decide to do the whole length or only
The area of the lift.

That ridge beam idea is cool too.

Having the whole thing raised is nice, it makes adding a ceiling easier, and lighting is easier to install as well. Raising a foot on the whole thing and higher where the roof of the car would go could be a good way to go....

Thanks for following along..
Mike

 

[1931S/X]

Mine is kind of funny and I almost hate to tear it out. The old guy put a lot of work into it. Full plywood ceiling with 8’ fluorescents, the 10x10 door goes up over the ceiling when up. I like it, but I think I’m really Going to like finally having a lift.

 

[Redwolf947]

Mine is kind of funny and I almost hate to tear it out. The old guy put a lot of work into it. Full plywood ceiling with 8’ fluorescents, the 10x10 door goes up over the ceiling when up. I like it, but I think I’m really Going to like finally having a lift.

Yep, having a lift would/will be great.. what type are you looking at? 2 post? 4 post? I think I'm going to do more research on an in floor scissor. Full height... but I think I'll need a 9k version..

Mike

 

[1931S/X]

I bought a used 2 post.

 

[Redwolf947]

That's Awesome, hope everything works out for you.. If most everything is already finished, I'd only gut the area where the car lifts into..

 

[3onthetree]

Not to rain on this resurrected thread, but if anyone refers to this thread and is using Denwood as an example (post #22) for adding a ridge beam, there are some things not to do:

- don't eliminate the collar beams (ties), as you can see his rafters are not connected to the new ridge beam. Collar beams hold the rafters from uplift. You can alternatively use straps on the top side of the roof sheathing.
- the rafters should be mechanically fastened to the ridge beam. In his, it looks as though there is an existing 1x ridge board, now taking the compression loads from the roof down onto the new ridge beam.
- the new transverse girder beams (supporting the ends of the new ridge beam) looks to be cut way too aggressively under the roof slope. There is a minimum beam depth needed over the bearing point, compounded by his additional gap to clear the shingle nails sticking through.
- you would need have additional post support added into the walls to carry the new ridge beam, and make sure the foundation is adequate for the new point loads.

 

[3onthetree]

Looks good RedWolf. Just want to point out for those that follow your example that your new "kingpost" struts are tied into new 2x collar beams (ties) right at the ridge. Future DIYers might try to tie into their existing 1x collar beams, some of which may be lower down, and that wouldn't be a good solution as the strut is pulling on that with tension. The strut needs to be tied as directly as possible to the ridge connection. You can also elimate a kingpost on every joist by using a strongback/binder. Also 16d nails are acceptable fasteners.

 

[Redwolf947]

Looks good RedWolf. Just want to point out for those that follow your example that your new "kingpost" struts are tied into new 2x collar beams (ties) right at the ridge. Future DIYers might try to tie into their existing 1x collar beams, some of which may be lower down, and that wouldn't be a good solution as the strut is pulling on that with tension. The strut needs to be tied as directly as possible to the ridge connection. You can also elimate a kingpost on every joist by using a strongback/binder. Also 16d nails are acceptable fasteners.

Well, thank you for that! I really hadn't realized how long it had been since I did this project..

Mike

 

[zc15]

@Redwolf947 I see you're still active on GJ, so I don't feel so bad for a second resurrection of this thread.

Have you figured out the insulation on the sloped part yet?

Any movement in the past 2 years since Sam asked above?

 

[Denwood]

Not to rain on this resurrected thread, but if anyone refers to this thread and is using Denwood as an example (post #22) for adding a ridge beam, there are some things not to do:

- don't eliminate the collar beams (ties), as you can see his rafters are not connected to the new ridge beam. Collar beams hold the rafters from uplift. You can alternatively use straps on the top side of the roof sheathing.
- the rafters should be mechanically fastened to the ridge beam. In his, it looks as though there is an existing 1x ridge board, now taking the compression loads from the roof down onto the new ridge beam.
- the new transverse girder beams (supporting the ends of the new ridge beam) looks to be cut way too aggressively under the roof slope. There is a minimum beam depth needed over the bearing point, compounded by his additional gap to clear the shingle nails sticking through.
- you would need have additional post support added into the walls to carry the new ridge beam, and make sure the foundation is adequate for the new point loads.

3on, you raised good points...however, you should probably look at my build thread...all of those points were addressed along the build. The ridge beam is tied to both existing ridge board and rafters via hurricane clips, and added collar ties. The pic posted was taken during construction.

- The end cut on the transverse beams were cut exactly as specified by the engineer from the truss company.

- Wall loads at the transverse beams were carried down to the concrete building footers via supplemental beams attached on the interior of the walls under the four corners. The footers are 12" deep over rock material.

The ridge beam load is taken to the transverse beam via a 4x4 post, flanked by three 2x6s (front and sides) to stabilize it. There are also added jack studs in the wall itself. If anything, it's over engineered.

I should also mention that this is year five, and we're at about 5 feet of snow on the roof right now. Zero issues

If anyone is considering spray foaming the rood deck directly with closed cell, do it. The garage is only heated when in use (and we see -35C temps often in winter), but it holds on to heat surprisingly well. For example, our last night low was -31 C, but the shop only dipped to -8 C. The other good reason to do this is the added structural strength. Even in heavy winds/weather there is zero creak/flex from the structure.

This image was taken during construction:



A few days later...



It's a bit hard to make out but on the right side in the image below, you can see the grey posts (front and back of the shop, against the wall) which are there to carry beam loads to the garage footers. They are triple ply 2 x 6. Same on the left side.

 

[Redwolf947]

@Redwolf947 I see you're still active on GJ, so I don't feel so bad for a second resurrection of this thread.

Have you figured out the insulation on the sloped part yet?

Any movement in the past 2 years since Sam asked above?

Unfortunately, I have completely stalled all work on my garage. Dragging my feet as I don't know what to do. If I close up and install a ceiling I'd need to add roof vents and probably also need to add eve vents as well. If I just insulate to the peak I'm still not sure what I should do with venting the roof deck. I haven't done a lot of research on the latter thought.. I will definitely update this and the other thread I have if I can get motivated.. Thanks for asking!! And sorry it took so long to respond..

 

[zc15]

Unfortunately, I have completely stalled all work on my garage. Dragging my feet as I don't know what to do. If I close up and install a ceiling I'd need to add roof vents and probably also need to add eve vents as well. If I just insulate to the peak I'm still not sure what I should do with venting the roof deck. I haven't done a lot of research on the latter thought.. I will definitely update this and the other thread I have if I can get motivated.. Thanks for asking!! And sorry it took so long to respond..

No worries! After I posted I had found your main thread and had considered moving over to there