All Tablesaws Soon to Get Much More Expensive!

[Bolster]

Get this.

Some guy named Osorio was using a Ryobi benchtop tablesaw (yes one of those $200 portable plastic jobs) at work. Despite being trained how to use it, this particular day he was ripping oak flooring WITHOUT blade guard, WITHOUT splitter, and (I kid you not...) WITHOUT FENCE (!)

While cutting he felt chattering and vibration. (Gee, ya think?) So, using his intelligence to its fullest extent, Osorio decided to get his hand closer to the blade, and push the board into the blade harder. He lost his grip on the board, his left hand went into the blade, severely cutting 3 fingers and his thumb. Hello 5 surgeries and 95 OT visits.

But wait...there's more...Osorio sues One World Technologies, parent company of Ryobi, Ridgid, and Milwaukee, for $250K. The jury learns that there is a patented blade-stop technology out there (on SawStop machines, costing $2000 to $3000, a mere 10-15x more in price than the dangerously misused...dare I say, abused...Ryobi) and decide, in their INFINITE WISDOM, that Ryobi was at fault for not fitting all their own machines with the expensive SawStop technology (which belongs to a competing company, SawStop, in case I hadn't made that point clear enough).

So they hand down a punitive $1.5 million dollar award to Osorio, a mere SIX TIMES what he was asking for.

What does this mean for ALL tablesaw manufacturers? It doesn't take a genius to see that all future tablesaws are going to be fitted with SawStop technology, for which they'll have to pay through the nose, and tablesaws, even the cheap ones, will skyrocket in price.

If you don't want to spend a mint on a table saw, there ain't no time like the present! But for PETE'S SAKE, use a fence, at least!! And wipe the lunch grease off your hands before pushing oak through the saw!

Seriously, I ask you, how did our ancestors survive?

And what will the future be like, when all forms of Darwinism are extinguished because attorneys are able to divorce effects from their natural causes?

 

[iandh]

Let's see... Osorio the idiot hurts himself and then punishes someone else for his own stupidity. Then he wins the lotto because he is a *****.

I hope Osorio the idiot gets hit by a bus.

 

[Bolster]

I hope Osorio the idiot gets hit by a bus.

Correction...Osorio the RICH idiot.

I'm hoping the bus hits the 12 members of the jury, myself.

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

We have one of those Saw Stop models at work, they are very nice machines if I do say so myself.

My college job was being a tower monkey, for 9.5 years. I was also a California Welder for cert work. As a product of these two skills being paired, I got a lot of side work throughout my tenure at U.C.

You guys would get a real kick out of some of the cowboys that I worked with in this gig; I mean, I swear to god these people would terrify you to work with them! I had been on jobs with people whom had never been in the air before, or who were terrified of heights, or had smoked so many cigarettes that they couldn't get up the tower without coughing up a lung...

I personally have known two people well who are no longer with us working in this industry. All it takes is one step, although I never knew anyone who sued anyone else for taking that misstep.

Adam

 

[iandh]

Correction...Osorio the RICH idiot.

I'm hoping the bus hits the 12 members of the jury, myself.

Well, I guess if we really lucked out, a metorite would have just hit the courtroom, and taken out the idiot plaintiff, his scumbag lawyer, and all twelve ***** jurors.

 

[Bolster]

Well, I guess if we really lucked out, a metorite would have just hit the courtroom, and taken out the idiot plaintiff, his scumbag lawyer, and all twelve ***** jurors.

To be followed by a lawsuit against God.

Although getting Him to pay would be difficult.

 

[iandh]

To be followed by a lawsuit against God.

Although getting Him to pay would be difficult.

Well, the good thing is that if these assholes have their way... they'll sue every sue-able company out of business and then they'll all just have to start earning money the old fashioned way again.

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Look fellas, there are 70% of the worlds attorneys in this country. It is just WAY too easy to look at a case or someone's complaint and then see a business opportunity in the matter.

I don't think that anyone else will argue with me that this is a crying shame.

Adam

 

[Stuey]

I think we discussed this a while back.

In any case, the jugement was complete and utter insanity. Hopefully an appeal will set things right.

 

[Bolster]

the jugement was complete and utter insanity.

Unlike the old lady who burned her thighs on McDonald's coffee by holding it between her legs as she drove!

Look fellas, there are 70% of the worlds attorneys in this country.

Adam, the problem is, as full of &h!# as the lawyers are, it's the addled, gullible, irrational, do-gooder, pin-headed juries that are buying this stuff! The problem isn't the attorney, it's the 12 morons like you and me! (Present company excepted, of course.)

 

[rsanter]

it will be appealed

bob

 

[Walterchang]

I've heard this before on another forum. Can you please provide a link to the original story.

 

[ZRX61]

Seriously, I ask you, how did our ancestors survive?

There were a lot less lawyers....

 

[Bolster]

I've heard this before on another forum. Can you please provide a link to the original story.

I read it in Fine Woodworking Magazine, issue 213.

 

[Stuey]

For what it's worth, since the Ryobi suit someone sued Bosch as well.
http://toolguyd.com/2010/04/yet-another-table-saw-safety-lawsuit/

Popular Woodworking did a good job of covering the Ryobi lawsuit.

http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com...sorio+Wasnt+Using+The+Guard+Or+Rip+Fence.aspx

 

[Stick Figure]

funny i'm typing 9 fingered tonight because of my own table saw mishap today. I never even had a thought go through my head about suing Delta. I was doing something stupid and got too comfortable w/ a tool i should have had kept a bit more respect for. Just wish ,me luck that the bone will grow back and doesn't have to be shortened!

 

[foul_ball]

makes me wanna beat the attorneys and jurors on the head with a push stick

 

[Rickster]

This is exactly what's wrong in America today. Before there were all the lawyers on TV begging you to sue someone your parents would point to some guy who got rich by inventing something great and say "You can do that too!!" Now they point at Mr Osario and people like him that do stupid **** and get awarded a fortune in court and say "You can do that too!"

 

[TAMPAGT07]

While we are bashing attorneys (my favorite pastime.) Down here in Tampa, they just renamed the Ford Amphitheater, The "1-800-ASK-GARY Amphitheater." (Which is a lawyer referral service.) Unreal. I think we should take all the lawyers, tie them together, and lay them in the gulf for sausage boom, to soak and contain the oil.

 

[Mickey O]

First thing I do when I get a new table saw is to remove the safety guard, I've been using a table saw since I was a little kid (that saw didn't come with all the "safety ****") and haven't so much as scratched myself. If you can't operate a table saw without hurting yourself you should not be allowed around machinery and should be given scissors with rounded tips.

I have seen a lot of work place "accidents", a real lot, several deaths, several missing fingers, crushed limbs, sliced open belly and others, all but one (steam line burst) were the fault of the person hurt, riding crane lifted equipment, not wearing the proper safety gear, not rigging, not paying attention, not turning off the machine before working on it, etc.

How about some personal responsibility, in the end we all pay for these bone heads.

 

[woody 73]

Coming from a woodworkers perspective, I for one would like very much to see every table saw outfitted with the saw stop technology. I realize that yes the price of the saw would skyrocket into the stratosphere,but it sure beats going to the emergency room.

I am not quite sure what the Jury was thinking on that other case,but it sounds like it will have some far reaching effects on future table saw designs.

 

[Mickey O]

Coming from a woodworkers perspective, I for one would like very much to see every table saw outfitted with the saw stop technology. I realize that yes the price of the saw would skyrocket into the stratosphere,but it sure beats going to the emergency room.

I am not quite sure what the Jury was thinking on that other case,but it sounds like it will have some far reaching effects on future table saw designs.

And I'd like to see money trees in everyone's backyard.

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Aw Jesus, I sure as hell hope that it doesn't come to that. With the price of a table saw being in the 3-4 kilobuck range, I doubt that there would be many new sales of these tools. Would also drive up the price of second hand units, and units that are portable but lack this "feature".

Adam

 

[1969]

If you can't operate a table saw without hurting yourself you should not be allowed around machinery and should be given scissors with rounded tips.
The absolute truth.

 

[joeswamp]

Some guy named Osorio was using a Ryobi benchtop tablesaw (yes one of those $200 portable plastic jobs) at work. Despite being trained how to use it, this particular day he was ripping oak flooring WITHOUT blade guard, WITHOUT splitter, and (I kid you not...) WITHOUT FENCE (!)

Ripping oak without a fence? That's seriously about the dumbest thing I've ever heard, just a real bad accident waiting to happen.

I've removed the old-fashioned splitter on my own portable contractors saw, just because it gets in the way so much that I can't get anything done. I have heard that these modern thin splitters are much better though, I should look into getting one. Fortunately my saw is so wimpy that kickbacks aren't too dramatic, and I'm a big believer in long push sticks.

I've also heard that the sawstop saw is a really fantastic machine. A friend who's used one extensively said it would be a great saw even if it didn't have the sawstop feature. If and when I upgrade to a real table saw I'll probably look into one of those, it's probably worth the extra "saving time" to know you won't accidently saw your hand off.

 

[DougB442]

this idiot shouldn't have been awarded anything...he purposely removed the factory installed saftey equipment from the saw....

You can't fix Stupidity...

 

[BigRed390]

I've also heard that the sawstop saw is a really fantastic machine. A friend who's used one extensively said it would be a great saw even if it didn't have the sawstop feature. If and when I upgrade to a real table saw I'll probably look into one of those, it's probably worth the extra "saving time" to know you won't accidently saw your hand off.

I had the pleasure of using a PCS (Professional cabinet saw) model this weekend. It's supposedly not as nice as their ICS (industrial cabinet saw) model. I would very much like to see an ICS, as the SawStop PCS was the nicest, sturdiest, most vibration free saw i've ever used. Granted, I've never gotten to hang around a top shelf powermatic or a European-type sliding saw, but I've cut a few boards in my short life. It's a great saw and I'd buy one for the quality alone.

That being said, a $150 saw shouldn't be used on the floor, it shouldn't be used without the guard in place, it shouldn't be used with the WHOLE FREAKIN BLADE cranked all the way up, and it probably shouldn't even be used to cut hardwood on a regular basis. Lots of people at fault here. Ryobi isn't one of them. They made an economical saw for Joe Homeowner to cut some framing lumber with for his new deck or windowsil or birdhouse. They did not make that saw to cut hardwood on a professional basis while sitting on the floor, and NOBODY makes a table saw that rips boards freehand without the benefit of a fence or other stabilization system.

The guy had a computer science degree and didn't have enough understanding of basic physics to avoid this sort of accident? Frightening.

 

[SteveU]

Let's see... Osorio the idiot hurts himself and then punishes someone else for his own stupidity. Then he wins the lotto because he is a *****.

I hope Osorio the idiot gets hit by a bus.

Nah, then the bus manufacturer will get sued

Unlike the old lady who burned her thighs on McDonald's coffee by holding it between her legs as she drove!



Adam, the problem is, as full of &h!# as the lawyers are, it's the addled, gullible, irrational, do-gooder, pin-headed juries that are buying this stuff! The problem isn't the attorney, it's the 12 morons like you and me! (Present company excepted, of course.)

AND the judges that allow this **** on their docket. If judges would throw this sort of thing out & fine the lawyers that brought all these frivolous lawsuits in front of them it wouldn't take long for it to stop.

makes me wanna beat the attorneys and jurors on the head with a push stick

run them thru a 16" Jointer a few times to shave some of the BS off

 

[ghnl]

I think we should take all the lawyers, tie them together, and lay them in the gulf for sausage boom, to soak and contain the oil.

That won't work - they're too replusive (and their polyester suits won't soak up anything either).

 

[HoosierBuddy]

OK. I'll agree this guy was not using the saw even close to properly and the 1.5 M verdict is seriously redonkulous.

However, the inventor of the flesh sensing technology approached Ryobi's parent company about the invention and they showed him the door. Why? Partially because if they installed this technology on even some of their saws they would be liable for injuries on saws they didn't choose to use it on. Partially because they aren't sure about how the technology will hold up over time. Also, partially (I'm sure) because of the cost considerations.

To ME...it sounds like an awesome invention. I can't believe that it will cost thousands to add to every table saw. Hundreds of people get cut by table saws every year. If they are maimed, the cost could be hundreds of thousands of dollars, and that money will be saved if the saws are made safer.

I think this is just the sort of technology we need out there. If this lawsuit gets it pushed into tools at a lower pricepoint...then that would be great. I mean...all of the people who post about the several thousand dollar sawstop saw say it's the greatest, smoothest, saw ever. Surely a lot of the cost of that saw is due to its overall quality and not just the flesh sensing feature.

Phil

 

[scott37300]

It's amazing how common sense has been thrown out these days(and I"m only 29 years old). I see people everyday that should be taught a lesson by themselves about common sense. Now instead of learning life lessons when you forget your common sense you blame it on someone else and get rich. Seriously WTF is wrong with people. This guy buys a cheap table saw that doesn't come with the saw stop feature that the table saw costing 15 times more comes with. Then he decides that he will go against his training(I believe the OP said he was trained on the saw) and remove all gaurds and not use a fence. I have a bosch portable table saw 4100, very nice saw. I have used table saws for 14 years since I took woodworking back in school. I remove the gaurd and splitter for doing things like rabbiting and other stuff. But you have to keep the fence on so the wood feeds straight and doesn't bind. Also have to be aware and keep your hands away from the blade, use a push stick. This guy is an idiot and deserves to have both his hands cut off and not receive any money from anyone since it was his own stupidity that got him hurt.

 

[dgarage]

Idiots like him are why lawn mowers have safety stop bars. If you're stupid enough to stick your fingers in a moving blade you deserve to lose them.

 

[A_Pmech]

Just wait until the first Saw Stop doesn't... Stop.

 

[jeepnut24]

The guy had a computer science degree and didn't have enough understanding of basic physics to avoid this sort of accident? Frightening.

Huh??? Ive got two CS degrees and I know how to run a table saw... How is that relevant? I learned from my Dad, not school...

 

[737mechanic]

Too bad that idoit didn't cut his throat in the process.

Laywers are the main reason we pay high prices for everything in this country, they are ruthless crooks and the only reason they ask for large sums of money is because they get 30 to 50 percent of the settlement. The cost of the lawsuit will be passed on to the cunsumers.

I have ran tablesaws for 25 years and I always take the gaurds off and I still have all my fingers.

 

[slopecarver]

well I've got 6 table saws in my basement (was trying to get a set of 2) none of them have safety guards, none cost more than $60. they have a combined age of around 200 years and none weigh less than 50lbs. I'm stocked up for when the time comes.

 

[Justanoldguy]

Huh??? Ive got two CS degrees and I know how to run a table saw... How is that relevant? I learned from my Dad, not school...

You're kidding right.

It is relevant because having a degree is "suppose" to show signs of intelligence and logical thinking.
2 things missing in that guys case.

 

[bushhawg73]

Just wait until the first Saw Stop doesn't... Stop.

You can say that again, when this does happen and I am sure it will the saw stop people will be in for a ride. If it is man made it can and will fail.

 

[iandh]

You can say that again, when this does happen and I am sure it will the saw stop people will be in for a ride. If it is man made it can and will fail.

Yep... these saw stop folks might think they're cute testifying at a trial to crucify Ryobi, but they'll get theirs as soon as one of their gizmos fails.

I bet Ryobi will be on the other side of the stand exacting sweet, sweet revenge when that day comes.

 

[danc333]

I'm not sure if anyone knows the story behind the Stop Saw. The inventor wanted to sell his system to a saw manufacturer and nobody wanted it. He designed and built the saw himself. If anyone has ever seen it work it is really amazing. There is video on you tube and if you can find it the show called "Time Lapse" filmed it in high speed at 10,000 frames per second. The maker used his finger instead of the hot dog he uses for live demos. I know that a couple local schools use this saw now. They have had it activated a couple times. The teacher said the replacement cost of the blade module (about $120 I Think) sure beats the phone call to the kids parents.