Crusher run drive topping ?

[cvcman]

I have aprox 30 x 60 parking area that is crusher run .
This time of year with the freeze and thaw weather there are areas where it’s soft and rutted .
Also from using my tractor with the loader it’s scraped some off etc
So am I best off just getting a half load of crusher and spreading and back blading with my bucket ..
Or getting like finer stuff and trying to compact it

 

[firebirdparts]

Are you talking about it getting soft because you have too much rock or not enough rock?

 

[jack stand]

In Syracuse, you might still have frost below the top few inches that freeze and thaw this time of the year. This is what goes on around here.
This frozen ground will not allow normal draining and won't until it's melted. If this is the case, you need to add stones without the fines to support the wheel loads. The bigger the better and crushed rock is better than screened bank run that tends to be round and does not "lock" together.

 

[cvcman]

Yea I’m thinking not enough rock , I know there is fabric cloth under that area so maybe it’s frost ?
I’m sure I’m going to need to regrade in the spring and add some crusher
Not sure it’s worth renting a compactor

 

[danfromsyr]

definitely still frozen a few inches down and water slogged on the top 6inches here this time of year

it's a same reason we have truck weight limits on some road surfaces till later in spring.

 

[kaymccampbell]

How thick is your crusher run? Mine varies from 13"to 3', depending on the grade of the land, and the grade of the bottom of the driveway excavation. The surface of mine is a bit mushy right now, but a truck could drive on it and not sink. Is the bottom of your driveway graded to drain?

 

[KJ in VT]

Its a subgrade problem that won't be corrected with top coat. There is a reason for AOT road specs; yes they are way over the top for private residential applications. Adequate hydraulic relief of the spec base material will help, but even saturated spec base material will have a much higher bearing capacity than the mud beneath it.

The majority of our 300' drive has 9" of dense-graded 3"-minus crushed stone over Mirafi X500 road fabric, topped with 3" of 3/4"-minus stay-mat. Full 12" depth of the base material drains to daylight beyond the edge of the drive. That portion of the drive is like concrete even in the deepest days of mud season. The balance of the drive/parking/turnaround area has no fabric, about 6"-8" of fine (1" minus) bank-run gravel/sand under 3" of stay-mat, and has the lawn areas graded to match the grade of the drive, preventing drainage of the base. This area does get soft when the melt happens. The "good" part of the drive was done at the outset of the project; the parking/turnaround was done after the house and garage construction was complete (to avoid damage from construction traffic)...and we were broke at that point. Hence the difference in the drive construction. Planned to do it right later, but 17 years in its hasn't been enough of a problem to bother with. Do wish we had the scratch to do it right the first time though.

 

[Firebrick43]

I agree with KJ. Soft gravel drives or drives with potholes are never solved with just adding more rock long term. Its always about subgrade and runoff drainage, then about the aggregate thickness.

 

[gearhead1]

I put down crusher run then drove on it for a year, then put down another layer of crusher run and drove on it for a year, then put on #57 stone as a top layer. I like the #57 stone because there’s less tendency for it to get stuck in tires like there is if you go smaller.

In the spring, I take a scraper blade and smooth it back out. I also put in slight swales where I want to divert water.

 

[KJ in VT]

I put down crusher run then drove on it for a year, then put down another layer of crusher run and drove on it for a year, then put on #57 stone as a top layer. I like the #57 stone because there’s less tendency for it to get stuck in tires like there is if you go smaller.

In the spring, I take a scraper blade and smooth it back out. I also put in slight swales where I want to divert water.

Gotta chuckle. Don't have need to plow or blow much snow do you? OP is in Syracuse, NY. Open graded stone makes beautiful windrows on the lawn from a plow and window shattering projectiles from a snowblower. The older I get, the more I wish I didn't have to plow or blow snow.

 

[jack stand]

Pave it

 

[cvcman]

Yea I’d love to blacktop it ,,
Im
Sure it would cost a small fortune..
I plow it now with my FEL on my tractor and the bucket has skids to keep it up, but when it’s soft and the skids sink in then it digs up some gravel

 

[gearhead1]

Gotta chuckle. Don't have need to plow or blow much snow do you? OP is in Syracuse, NY. Open graded stone makes beautiful windrows on the lawn from a plow and window shattering projectiles from a snowblower. The older I get, the more I wish I didn't have to plow or blow snow.

Just following what my dad did, as I grew up in the snow belt just South of Erie, Pa. We didn’t have a snowblower, we used a scraper blade on the back of a Ford 9N tractor to move the snow. The #57 stone would pack in so hard, it was almost like concrete. I don’t ever remember shooting rocks with the mower in the Spring either. OP did not mention a snowblower, but did mention a tractor.

 

[cvcman]

That 57 packed tighter than crusher ?

 

[cvcman]

Just wonder IF stone dust would be better to top and would pack in better than adding crusher

 

[jives]

As we all know, subsurface prep is essential. Experience, though, reveals that even thoughtful prep may not be enough. Case in point, my driveway has two spots that rut or turn to jelly. They have been properly fixed multiple times. I suspect the culprit is the water table and extensive clay depth. This summer we will re-do one spot more drastic measures. Removing about 20" depth, adding an old 10' x 10' stall mat, and backfilling with crusher run.

I would avoid the stone dust on top, unless you plan on packing it down in the crusher run. It may just wash away in the rain.

 

[gearhead1]

That 57 packed tighter than crusher ?

We used crusher as the base. Then 57 on top. The 57 packs in pretty hard after a while too. When it rains, you get dirt and fines that get between the 57. After driving on it, over time it became almost like concrete. Eventually you get divots, ‘potholes’, and have to scrape it to smooth it out. When I did it here in NC, I have an excellent base built up, so no danger of sinking, but the top gets ‘muddy’ without the 57. The other thing here is we have more sand, which the rain moves it easily. My swale clogged up, every couple of years I have to remove material there to keep the runoff flowing. It’s dark now, will get a pic and post it.

 

[Bretny]

You need more stone. I also have a gravel driveway. The first section I layed 2in stone about 4in thick and drove on that for a year. Then 3/4 stone and drove on that, then finally topped with item4. Grading really helps. I also have alot of traffic and turns on my driveway.

Also with a loader and the ability to spread it you should really think about ordering a truck load of stone every year near the end of winter. If you do this when the driveway is still frozen the truck wont destroy it even further when you get the delivery.

 

[Firebrick43]

Gotta chuckle. Don't have need to plow or blow much snow do you? OP is in Syracuse, NY. Open graded stone makes beautiful windrows on the lawn from a plow and window shattering projectiles from a snowblower. The older I get, the more I wish I didn't have to plow or blow snow.

I have large skid shoes on my 8' blade, never have to pick stone up from the yard when plowing snow.

 

[andyvh1959]

Its all about the base, about the base, not topcoat.

Back in the early 90's I was developing a country lot for a house we planned to build. The lot was 1.5 acres, with a 30' wide by 400' long access strip into the property as part of the deed. That strip though was loaded with forest silt and farmland runoff, very unstable. My FIL at the time ran a block plant so I got many 15 yard dump loads of cracked/crushed concrete block, mixed with a lot of larger concrete chunks. I hired a bulldozer to come in, level/grade it, and knock away many small trees as he pushed the base material up the access strip. I estimate it was close to three feet thick, 24' wide and 400' long by the time the dozer was done. On top of that went another foot of crusher run and then gravel, and after we sold the property the new owner paved the while thing. When I set the culvert at the ditch I 1st backhoed out 6' wide x 4' deep x 30' wide of unstable soil and filled it back to grade with gravel, then set the culvert on top.

Years later I asked the home owner if they ever had trouble with the driveway handling propane trucks, or dump trucks/concrete trucks when they built the house and he said his driveway was the only sold stable one in that area of homes. Its all about the base.

 

[Pluribus]

Its all about the base, about the base, not topcoat.

Back in the early 90's I was developing a country lot for a house we planned to build. The lot was 1.5 acres, with a 30' wide by 400' long access strip into the property as part of the deed. That strip though was loaded with forest silt and farmland runoff, very unstable. My FIL at the time ran a block plant so I got many 15 yard dump loads of cracked/crushed concrete block, mixed with a lot of larger concrete chunks. I hired a bulldozer to come in, level/grade it, and knock away many small trees as he pushed the base material up the access strip. I estimate it was close to three feet thick, 24' wide and 400' long by the time the dozer was done. On top of that went another foot of crusher run and then gravel, and after we sold the property the new owner paved the while thing. When I set the culvert at the ditch I 1st backhoed out 6' wide x 4' deep x 30' wide of unstable soil and filled it back to grade with gravel, then set the culvert on top.

Years later I asked the home owner if they ever had trouble with the driveway handling propane trucks, or dump trucks/concrete trucks when they built the house and he said his driveway was the only sold stable one in that area of homes. Its all about the base.

Sing it, Meghan!

 

[andyvh1959]

The Meghan version, though original, is not near as fun to watch as this one:

Nummy, nummy,....all three of them, but the lead singer, whoa Louie she got da base.

 

[volleyball]

You cannot always build a thick base. But I find having sufficient pitch goes a long way by having the water run off instead of just trying to soak in. I have a similar sized gravel covered driveway area and it was built poorly. But it has held up with minimum maintenance over the decades because of the pitch.

 

[jack stand]

The terminology varies widely around the country. I recognize "57's" as a stone size, about 3/4. Crusher run was "57's with dust. This was in the mid Atlantic region. #2's were used for the base layer-about a 21/2" crushed stone.
There are many others but in a lot of states, (as I understand) the "numbers" are tied to a state standard that they establish for their design and bidding on state contracted jobs. The quarries take up these numbers as a standard of the area. Around here, I'd get a cross eyed stare at the 'pit' if I rolled in and asked for a load of 57's. It's all by the inch.
Think of your driveway that's still got frost under it as creek bed. Do you cross it where it's silty/sand (crusher dust) or where you have a bunch or softball size rocks if you want to keep your shoes dry?
It's really that simple when dealing with frost below the melted surface.

 

[ycgoat]

The terminology varies widely around the country. I recognize "57's" as a stone size, about 3/4. Crusher run was "57's with dust. This was in the mid Atlantic region. #2's were used for the base layer-about a 21/2" crushed stone.
There are many others but in a lot of states, (as I understand) the "numbers" are tied to a state standard that they establish for their design and bidding on state contracted jobs. The quarries take up these numbers as a standard of the area. Around here, I'd get a cross eyed stare at the 'pit' if I rolled in and asked for a load of 57's. It's all by the inch.
Think of your driveway that's still got frost under it as creek bed. Do you cross it where it's silty/sand (crusher dust) or where you have a bunch or softball size rocks if you want to keep your shoes dry?
It's really that simple when dealing with frost below the melted surface.

LOL I live in South Eastern Va and use terms like 57 and crush and run all the time. I went 100 miles West in Southern Va bought property and tried to order some 57 and they had no idea what I was talking about. I got some prices on common sizes they cary and had to look up what it was in terms I could understand. If I remember correctly they sold #5 crushed stone was the closest to the #57 I was looking for.

 

[Bretny]

If the OP is in NY they would consider crusher run item4 I believe. Its basic 3/4 and smaller stone right down to dust.

 

[jives]

If the OP is in NY they would consider crusher run item4 I believe. Its basic 3/4 and smaller stone right down to dust.

Yup, but I would not consider item 4 for the top coat. When we built our house 11 years ago we left the top coat as item 4 as we were unsure of how we wanted to top it, and the item 4 with the fines left a smooth enough surface to ride bikes and even scooters. Problem was that our driveway is on a slight slope and the fines would wash on down to the flat part of the driveway and settle. Crusher run is not item 4, I believe it has more fines and smaller rocks.