Should I replace HVAC system?

[AmirJustin]

I have 2 Comfort model (NAC224AKA5) HVAC systems. Both are 14 years old and are starting to see repairs necessary. It is no longer under warranty and I'm wondering if I should upgrade one of them. They both put out enough cold air and don't have any leaks. Repairs have been normal such as the capacitor and a circuit board but no other issues. I'm assuming the motor will be the next thing to go.

I asked for some quotes and got one for a Trane S96 Furnace and XR16 A/C at 12,000$ installed, total. Not sure if that's a good price. Are there cheaper hvac systems that would work just as well mobdro? This comes with wifi etc but I don't need fancy, I just need it to work. I've read on Consumer Reports that once the repairs equal 50% of a new system, that's when you should swap it out. I have solar power for electric and the most my bill gets during the summer months is 80-90$. I've read online about "You should replace them after 15 years" but that all seems to be from companies that base their lively hood on installing and repair of systems. They both still run on R22 also, which I know is being phased out by 2020. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[Mr..Plow]

MY ac guy says run my 23 year old system until its cost prohibitive until to do so. Makes sense to spend $250-500 every few years to replace a part vs. 10K for a new system.

 

[bonneyman]

I agree with Mr. Plow. Just like with my older cars - I'd rather spend a couple thousand repairing the older rides rather than shell out $60-70K for a new one!

 

[mitusa]

Mine is 27 years old.....have to put freon in it every few years. I asked my AC guy about installing a new unit that might be more efficient....he said to run the one I have until it quits.

 

[Wheelingit]

I would keep running them. Mine is going on 24 years.

 

[rharman]

My HVAC guy says the same thing about ours. Run it till it drops and then, depending on the failure, fix or replace.

 

[engineer2]

We're in the same boat. When we go to sell our house, a 30 year old system will be a problem even though it works fine.

 

[FredWanaker]

we have a carrier split system that is 2004 vintage. R22, 80% efficiency on the heater. I keep a spare 30lb R22 canister around for if/when it needs service. The compressor had a valve go bad in it 2 years ago, and got real noisy. I paid $2200 to have the compressor replaced. Still heats and cools as well as when new. The prior system lasted 25 years before a hose blew, so since it was inefficient I just replaced the whole system and ducting. I can't see why I would want to replace it, and start the clock over again until it dies. Not only that but California is pushing to have everyone install electric everything. I remember back in the 1970's when they did the same thing here, and then electric got so overly expensive to use everyone went back to gas. I don't trust the government 1% that they won't flip on us again as soon as we all go in one direction. To me it is like any sales thing. When people drive SUV's they sell the efficiency of small cars. When everyone drives small cars they sell the space, towing, and luxury of SUV's. If you put all your data on the cloud, then they sell the privacy of keeping it on a drive at home. If you keep it on a drive at home they sell the cloud and cloud apps. If you replace it all you are doing is starting the clock over again. There are homes with heaters in some upscale downtown areas of Sacramento that are 60 years old and working fine.

BTW - HVAC companies make their money installing new systems, not repairing old ones. If you can get $20K more for the home with a new HVAC for it but if you aren't selling why start the clock over? If you stay there 10 more years the buyer will be saying "but the HVAC is 10 years old and doesn't have a warranty."

 

[yeldogt]

There is no point in just replacing a working system with a like kind unit (basic) ... The average consumer will never see the savings pay back (most will be a bit more efficient). The new unit many or may not be an improvement.

What you should do is evaluate the current system as to how well it works. What's the cycle time. Is it quiet and good at removing humidity -- does the system have good temp control through the house. Do you like where the compressor is located outside. Even go so far as to calculate if you have the correct size. Most houses have oversized units and marginal ductwork.

Evaluating what you have and what should be done as far as improvements puts you in a better situation when it does need to be replaced. With current costs and supply problems .... this is not the best time to be replacing. You can always get an estimate

All systems have things that go .... where in the old days a capacitor may last forever. At 7 years we always replace them on the rentals ,,,, same with the typical igniter on a gas furnace. Wifi can be added cheaply with many new thermostats.

Go online and see if the state has any programs -- rebates/loans/ free energy audits. Knowledge is power.

Upgraded systems -- those with variable speed blowers and multistage compressors can provide almost silent comfort and increased humidity control .... but, to get the full benefit they need proper ductwork.

 

[Jackfre]

YD, how would you describe proper ductwork?

 

[mepstein]

I’ve replaced the system twice in my house. Each time it feels better and cost less to run. They seem to last about 12 years before a big repair is needed. Both times I’ve been friends with an hvac guy and the system for both heat and air ran about $7k installed. The last one that I did two years ago is a hybrid system. Heat pump until It gets to around low 30’s, high 20’s and then the propane kicks on. Both the summers and winters are more comfortable with the new system so I’m not unhappy about the cost. Month cost of electric and propane is also a lot lower.

 

[yeldogt]

YD, how would you describe proper ductwork?

Know it when I see it !

I'm sure you do as well.

The first thing is to listen -- noise in supplies and returns is an indication of oversized equipment and/or poor ductwork. IMO -- it's always bad to buy an old house and immediately replace the HVAC equipment ... living in a house for a while is a great way to understand where any deficiencies show themselves.

Houses where AC was not initially installed are often problematic ... or where equipment is installed up in an unconditioned attic. All too often they suffer from one large return and small supplies. Many houses don't have enough return capacity.

Just looking the place over is often enough to tell you there needs to be some deeper investigation. Having rehabbed many old houses - have seen it all. Sadly -- most flips suffer from HVAC neglect ... no one buys a home based on the HVAC equipment and flippers hire people who will do it as cheaply as possible. Goodman is the usual suspect -- not that they make bad equipment ... the Goodman line is basic and equal today to most of the builder grade equipment out there. The problem with Goodman is anybody can buy it and it's often not installed correctly by people who even know HVAC.

Newer houses by the bigger builders are actually a lot better today .. at least in layout. Flex duct and duct board is another flag for me to dig deeper.

I recently bought some vacation property. One property was from the early 80's --- not the high water mark of HVAC installs. It's on the coast w/ sea salt .... so it's had a couple of systems and some bad modifications to fix (attempt) noise. I like my system to be silent .... so staying there for a couple weeks -- I'm getting my plan together.

 

[fitter30]

Here is a seer calculator and theres one for a furnace

SEER Energy Savings Calculator for Air Conditioners

Use our free SEER Energy Savings Calculator to instantly see how much energy you save by upgrading to an air conditioner with a higher SEER / SEER2 rating.

www.seerenergysavings.com

The higher the efficiency of the equipment the sharper the service person has to be and might need a laptop with special program and leads to access to the different boards. Also parts are going to be more expensive and might not be stocked. Furnace blower motors venter or condenser fan motors are ecm motors very expensive to replace.

 

[Git]

MY ac guy says run my 23 year old system until its cost prohibitive until to do so. Makes sense to spend $250-500 every few years to replace a part vs. 10K for a new system.

I would add that it depends on where you live and the cost of electricity

I don't know how accurate these seer calculators are, but plug in your numbers and see how much a newer unit might reduce your annual electric bill:

SEER Energy Savings Calculator for Air Conditioners

Use our free SEER Energy Savings Calculator to instantly see how much energy you save by upgrading to an air conditioner with a higher SEER / SEER2 rating.

www.seerenergysavings.com

 

[yeldogt]

Here is a seer calculator and theres one for a furnace

SEER Energy Savings Calculator for Air Conditioners

Use our free SEER Energy Savings Calculator to instantly see how much energy you save by upgrading to an air conditioner with a higher SEER / SEER2 rating.

www.seerenergysavings.com

The higher the efficiency of the equipment the sharper the service person has to be and might need a laptop with special program and leads to access to the different boards. Also parts are going to be more expensive and might not be stocked. Furnace blower motors venter or condenser fan motors are ecm motors very expensive to replace.

Most equipment comes with 10 year parts ... some equipment now comes with full replacement of outside unit should a compressor fail. Few offer manufacturer labor like they did at one time .. Amana being an exception.

 

[Bert_]

I would add that it depends on where you live and the cost of electricity

I don't know how accurate these seer calculators are, but plug in your numbers and see how much a newer unit might reduce your annual electric bill:

SEER Energy Savings Calculator for Air Conditioners

Use our free SEER Energy Savings Calculator to instantly see how much energy you save by upgrading to an air conditioner with a higher SEER / SEER2 rating.

www.seerenergysavings.com

Keep in mind it's only going to achieve the rated seer if you have the proper airflow. Undersized ductwork will kill efficiency.

 

[BillK]

I also agree with Mr Plow. My system is almost 20 years old. I replaced the evaporator core a while back because the drip pan was leaking. Other than that I will run it gets terrible to repair. Same with the gas furnace part. I am even thinking of buying a heat exchanger now while it is still available. Not much else to really go wrong with it and I also dislike all of the new technology, mainly because of the associated repair costs. I dont need all of the fancy ****. Just need to heat and cool

 

[fitter30]

I also agree with Mr Plow. My system is almost 20 years old. I replaced the evaporator core a while back because the drip pan was leaking. Other than that I will run it gets terrible to repair. Same with the gas furnace part. I am even thinking of buying a heat exchanger now while it is still available. Not much else to really go wrong with it and I also dislike all of the new technology, mainly because of the associated repair costs. I dont need all of the fancy ****. Just need to heat and cool

Most manufacturers stop carrying parts after 10 years and if they have the part they price it so high it will make u think twice and when their out there out. With electronic boards or modules oem's use the same part numbers for them except the last 4-5 numbers or letters. They might have different timing, terminations or a extra terminal.
Most companies will not convert to a different board just for the liability.

 

[bonneyman]

Most manufacturers stop carrying parts after 10 years and if they have the part they price it so high it will make u think twice and when their out there out. With electronic boards or modules oem's use the same part numbers for them except the last 4-5 numbers or letters. They might have different timing, terminations or a extra terminal.
Most companies will not convert to a different board just for the liability.

I don't know if it's the same out there now, but I found a manufacturer (up until 2016) who did replacement boards that were terminal-for-terminal OEM replacements. Used them mostly for HP defrost boards, but they offered fan control, furnace boards, and timers, too. I converted several old timers containing obsolete boards with a generic board - just had to figure out which color unit wire went to the new board terminal. Of course there's always the liability issue, especially on a furnace board. But thorough checking and testing of safety functions after conversion reduced my concerns enough to warranty the work.
Most times you didn't get all the "bells and whistle" (t-stat lights mostly) but you would get heat/cool operation with defrost functions. Had the most fun on those jobs - getting a unit working for a customer that every other company said, "We can't get your part so you need a new unit"! lol

P.S. Looks like they're still at it. And they've added ECM boards!

Products | ICM

ICM Controls| ISO certified Electronics Manufacturing Company

www.icmcontrols.com

 

[danski0224]

I have 2 Comfort model (NAC224AKA5) HVAC systems. Both are 14 years old and are starting to see repairs necessary. It is no longer under warranty and I'm wondering if I should upgrade one of them. They both put out enough cold air and don't have any leaks. Repairs have been normal such as the capacitor and a circuit board but no other issues. I'm assuming the motor will be the next thing to go.

I asked for some quotes and got one for a Trane S96 Furnace and XR16 A/C at 12,000$ installed, total. Not sure if that's a good price. Are there cheaper hvac systems that would work just as well mobdro? This comes with wifi etc but I don't need fancy, I just need it to work. I've read on Consumer Reports that once the repairs equal 50% of a new system, that's when you should swap it out. I have solar power for electric and the most my bill gets during the summer months is 80-90$. I've read online about "You should replace them after 15 years" but that all seems to be from companies that base their lively hood on installing and repair of systems. They both still run on R22 also, which I know is being phased out by 2020. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

The 15 years thing is just an average. No one (at least the honest ones) know when your equipment will **** the bed. I can tell you that the furnace probably won't break in July and the AC probably won't break in January.

There are items that are normal wear and tear items- the ones that you listed.

The furnace should be checked with a combustion analyzer.

The AC should be checked with a set of digital gauges.

Both checks should be performed by a competent person, and that's the tricky part.

Both the furnace and AC unit can operate and make hot or cold air, but are not functioning properly.

In my area, the so-called home inspectors will make a fuss about HVAC equipment that is over 10 years old.

I would strongly suggest setting aside money for the replacement or repairs, and have a contingency plan in place. If you wait until it is broken and not repairable, then you are at the mercy of the installing contractor and the current demand pricing.

There is merit to a planned replacement. You are in control of the timing, any upgrades (equipment, ducting, venting) and more of the pricing compared to waiting. Of course, you won't get every last penny of life out of it, either.

Wholesale equipment pricing has skyrocketed over the last couple of years, for some strange reason. The stuff does not get cheaper the longer you wait.

 

[brownbagg]

i bought mine used 22 years ago, still works

 

[jjrbus]

I would keep the system running and while waiting for it's demise I would spend the time researching, manual J and manual D are good reads. Possibly hiring an independent company to do a manual J. It is shocking how many oversized units with too small or poorly designed duct work are done here in Florida. That person that shows up in the shiny white truck, might slip up and ask if you want fries with that order. After living in FL for 12 years I have a very low opinion of AC people. Might also want to look into mini splits or a combination of mini's and central, or the new inverter window AC units. https://www.loadcalc.net/

 

[Aileron]

The problem with replacing it now is supply chain issues. A lot of the higher seer systems are not available or easy to get. You may be spending that 12,000 and not getting much more then what you have. As long as the system doesn't leak it should still be ok. Last year some supply houses would not sell a evap coil without a condensing unit do to the shortage. R22 has skyrocketed and the price from wholesalers change daily along with their stock. Most are limiting quantity of drums. and most wont give a quote on a drum that good longer than two days, here is another , so you get rid of that 22 system and get a current r410A. They are going to scrap that refrigerant also, so your in the same boat in a few years. i don't think there is anything wrong with R22 systems as long as they don't leak and the refrigerant is handled correctly.

The R-410A phasedown is on its way, are you ready for it? | US Air Conditioning Distributors

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