Mystery Torx bolt

[jmf535]

I recently got a pair of NWS pliers that has, what appears to be, a torx bolt at the joint. I went to remove it to add some oil to it since it feels like it's bone dry in there, but none of my torx sockets fit it...T15 is too small, and T20 is too large. The edges are too sharp to be a Torx Plus, so I don't think it's that.

A quick search shows very little for a T17. Does such a thing exist? Is this some kind of tamper-resistant bolt?

 

[KnurledNut]

You want to disassemble it to oil the joint?
What am I missing?

 

[BTL-A4]

What about a triangular drive?

Torx got T15, T20, with nothing I could find in between.

Maybe put a drop of oil in between the plier halves and let it work its way in?

 

[Tools4Me]

As others have mentioned, a drop of oil placed directly on the mating surface of the two plier halves at the joint will work into the joint very quickly if you open and close the pliers a bunch of times right after adding the oil. If you still want to remove the hinge screw, realize there could be some sort of thread locker on the hinge screw threads and that thread locker might require heat to loosen up for removal and/or need to be replaced once the screw is removed. There are different ways which brands design their threaded hinge screws and I don't know how NWS does theirs.

It probably is a Torx T15, but you might need a Torx Align T15 bit in order to get a nice snug fit. I have run into that issue a couple times in the past with other Torx screw heads. Torx Align bits are designed with a slightly different geometry and taper, so they fit snug down into standard Torx heads with no slop or rotational play. Essentially they act like they are a slightly larger Torx tip.

You might be able to make yourself a workable "DIY Torx Align" bit if you don't own any. I have used the trick myself quite a few times, because Torx Align bits are usually several times the cost of regular Torx bits and they are harder to find. Start with a spare standard Torx T15 and then grind a tiny bit off the tip with a bench grinder etc while keeping the bit tip cool (dip it in water if needed). Never let the tip become too hot to hold with your fingers in the process or you will ruin the strength of the bit tip and be back at square one. After each tiny grind, test fit the bit in the NWS Torx screw. As you continue grinding the tip down, the Torx tip will become thicker and wider. Eventually it will become wide enough where it will no longer have the correct shape to fit at all, so don't grind too far. It shouldn't take much.

If it were me I wouldn't take the risk. I would add some oil to the joint and work the joint a bunch and see if the problem goes away. If the problem remains, I would return or exchange the pliers.

 

[jmf535]

I did add some oil to the joint, and between the two halves, but that didn't have that much of an effect. That's when I decided to see if the bolt would come out easily...and discovered that it's an odd size.

Regarding the size. T15 is too small, by a relatively large amount, but maybe a torx align T20 would work? I've never come across a Torx Align, so I'm not sure how they compare, size wise, to the standard torx.

But, in reality, hunting down something that would work probably isn't worth it....I was just curious if anyone knew what size/type it was, off hand

 

[Tools4Me]

I did add some oil to the joint, and between the two halves, but that didn't have that much of an effect. That's when I decided to see if the bolt would come out easily...and discovered that it's an odd size.

Regarding the size. T15 is too small, by a relatively large amount, but maybe a torx align T20 would work? I've never come across a Torx Align, so I'm not sure how they compare, size wise, to the standard torx.

But, in reality, hunting down something that would work probably isn't worth it....I was just curious if anyone knew what size/type it was, off hand

Torx Align tips are each slightly larger than their regular Torx equivalents, so if a Torx T20 won't fit a Torx Align T20 definitely won't either. If a regular T15 is way too small, a Torx Align T15 will fit better but it might still be too small for your screw head. It sounds like NWS might be using a custom/proprietary size torx tip just to keep people from messing with the joint.

 

[Wrench97]

T17 see this thread> https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/torx-t17.477762/

 

[pizza]

i have those same pliers. trust me, you don't need to take it apart to lube the joint. lol.

either you're lubing it wrong or you're confusing lubrication with how well the joint is mated. since they're brand new, at least the latter is probably true.

if you like that smooth, sloppy, flop-open feel to your pliers (i'm undecided myself), oil it up and go to town on opening and closing it.
do it rough and quick a bunch of times. spend like a solid minute doing it. you should be able to get a shitload of cycles in. after that, the joint will be well worn and smooth.

i used to do this with all my new pliers. now i only do it enough just barely ease joint friction (and how the friction changes over joint position). i like it kinda loose, but i also like there to be enough friction for the joint to hold the tool open without flopping closed when it's open all the way.

 

[Outahere]

Torx Plus ?
Torx Paralobe?

List of screw drives - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[KnurledNut]

@jmf535
Does anyone know if that is actually a screw?
Anyways, see if any hex key sizes are a snug fit.

 

[Qualitytools]

VW and Audi use double square fasteners, might it be that and not a Torx?

 

[njride]

Lol, this is a thing with Klein linemans, we would oil them and slam them nose first into the concrete hard a few (dozen) times, and work them open and closed. That was the worst part of losing a nice broken in pair. They take time to get really nice, because the joint is nice and tight.

 

[Steve_P]

Unless something has changed, it doesn't come out. I tried years ago.
If I have a "gritty" plier, I just wash out the joint with WD-40. Spray very little in the hinge joint, work it, repeat. Have a paper towel handy, and you'll see black **** run out and drip.

 

[Iridium rand]

As others have mentioned, a drop of oil placed directly on the mating surface of the two plier halves at the joint will work into the joint very quickly if you open and close the pliers a bunch of times right after adding the oil. If you still want to remove the hinge screw, realize there could be some sort of thread locker on the hinge screw threads and that thread locker might require heat to loosen up for removal and/or need to be replaced once the screw is removed. There are different ways which brands design their threaded hinge screws and I don't know how NWS does theirs.

It probably is a Torx T15, but you might need a Torx Align T15 bit in order to get a nice snug fit. I have run into that issue a couple times in the past with other Torx screw heads. Torx Align bits are designed with a slightly different geometry and taper, so they fit snug down into standard Torx heads with no slop or rotational play. Essentially they act like they are a slightly larger Torx tip.

You might be able to make yourself a workable "DIY Torx Align" bit if you don't own any. I have used the trick myself quite a few times, because Torx Align bits are usually several times the cost of regular Torx bits and they are harder to find. Start with a spare standard Torx T15 and then grind a tiny bit off the tip with a bench grinder etc while keeping the bit tip cool (dip it in water if needed). Never let the tip become too hot to hold with your fingers in the process or you will ruin the strength of the bit tip and be back at square one. After each tiny grind, test fit the bit in the NWS Torx screw. As you continue grinding the tip down, the Torx tip will become thicker and wider. Eventually it will become wide enough where it will no longer have the correct shape to fit at all, so don't grind too far. It shouldn't take much.

If it were me I wouldn't take the risk. I would add some oil to the joint and work the joint a bunch and see if the problem goes away. If the problem remains, I would return or exchange the pliers.

this sounds very similar to or exactly the same as the holding function torx tips that wera makes, basically they fit really snug so the screw stays on the driver, not particularly expensive either. likewise the difference is very slight so can’t see it working for a significantly larger fastener than the standard bit.

 

[Iridium rand]

Also I have that same pair and that same thing mildly bothers me lmao but luckily mine were at the perfect tightness out of the box. Some oil and working it in repeatedly or just using them would have the same effect over time I’m sure.

My best guess is that it’s a particularly tight T20, I’ve tried a few different brands of bits and some can just barely fit a tiny bit in (maybe could be hammered all the way in) and others do actually fit it, but either way it’s tightness exceeds the amount of torque I’m willing to put on it, Would rather leave my curiosity unsatisfied than end up stripping it out. It may be loctited in and require heat or it may not even actually be a screw, at least not anymore maybe it starts as one and the other side is permanently deformed like a rivet in assembly, not willing to damage or sacrifice them to find out in any case.

 

[KnurledNut]

this sounds very similar to or exactly the same as the holding function torx tips that wera makes, basically they fit really snug so the screw stays on the driver, not particularly expensive either. likewise the difference is very slight so can’t see it working for a significantly larger fastener than the standard bit.

The profile he was talking about is wedge torx or torx align. They are visibly tapered. Weras HF torx profile has squared flutes that grab the points. I use all three profiles, but wedge the most. For the OP’s oversized application, none of them would help much. The tip of a wedge torx could possibly be ground to fit.

L-R: Torx, Wedge, Wera HF

 

[VolvoRyan]

@jmf535
Does anyone know if that is actually a screw?
Anyways, see if any hex key sizes are a snug fit.

I'll second trying a hex. I found the same sort of fasteners in a Ryobi circuar saw. Hex worked fine. Though I had screws into plastic, so not very tight.

-Ryan

 

[dnschmidt]

I did add some oil to the joint, and between the two halves, but that didn't have that much of an effect. That's when I decided to see if the bolt would come out easily...and discovered that it's an odd size.

Regarding the size. T15 is too small, by a relatively large amount, but maybe a torx align T20 would work? I've never come across a Torx Align, so I'm not sure how they compare, size wise, to the standard torx.

But, in reality, hunting down something that would work probably isn't worth it....I was just curious if anyone knew what size/type it was, off hand

Forget oil, try ATF. That can creep into anything. The best solution is to get over your OCD and use these excellent pliers. I've ruined great tools because of my OCD. Don't follow that path of destruction.

 

[jmf535]

While my OCD is very strong, that is not the cause of this situation...as I said in my initial post, they feel bone-dry. As in I am certain that no oil/lubricant was used during assembly.

The fitment of the joint is excellent, but I know that won't last long if I'm not able to get any oil/lube in there. You can hear the metal-on-metal grinding when using them (think degreased/dry motorcycle/bike chain), and there has been zero oil seeping out of the joint since I've gotten them....I'll give ATF a try.

 

[4xdog]

I put oil inside the jaws on top of the joint, exercise the joint a few times, then stand the pliers up for a few days. I have yet to have a pair that hasn’t worked on.

Boy, I’d never take apart the halves of well-made, brand-new pliers, even if I could. I’m sure they’d never be the same if I did that.

 

[ATC]

I wouldn't touch them either.

You can put the pliers in a small cup (jaws down) and fill it to just above the joint with ATF and let it sit overnight.

Like njride mentioned...I have a couple new pairs of Klein linesman pliers that I need to give a good workout to. Those are really tight....like can't even open them with one hand just pushing with a finger or two...

 

[Grokew]

Don't use valve grinding compound. It loosens the joint, but may damge it if you over do it. I ruined a new pair of needle nose pliers by doing that, now they have side to side slop

 

[CR888]

I put oil inside the jaws on top of the joint, exercise the joint a few times, then stand the pliers up for a few days. I have yet to have a pair that hasn’t worked on.

Boy, I’d never take apart the halves of well-made, brand-new pliers, even if I could. I’m sure they’d never be the same if I did that.

This ^^^^ read it slowly 3 times lol. Soak them and move the handles back & forth. What the OP is suggesting is that these NWS have threads holding them together and not press/friction pin?