Am I expecting too much?

[Thomasshawn]

Working on lighting a new 3 car garage. 30x50 footprint. one big room but I have 3 doors and 2 ceiling heights.
each bay is ~17 feet wide. 2 outside bays are 10ft ceilings. Middle bay has 15ft ceiling where my 2 post lift will be.

Local electrician did a light plan for me

1. middle 15' section: 6- 150W 20k lumen ASD UFO lights. equally spaced. on dimmers.
2. two outer 10' bays had 8 wafer lights rated at ~950lumen ea. equally spaced on dimmers. I bought the lights and hooked up a few of them in my current garage and the difference between the wafers and the UFO was way too great. my impression is that the center will look very bright but the outer edges are going to look very dark comparatively.

I will primarily do work in the middle bay but it won't be uncommon for me to do small jobs in the outer bays. I want the ability to have them equally lit. for uniformity and for function. I don't want to need to move a car to center bay just to see.

So I reached out to hyperlite to have them draw me a light plan. they initially recommended 8- 150W in the whole garage (112 lumen per foot).



Then after I explained it was 1 big room but 2 ceiling heights they then recommended 4 UFO 100W in each 10' bay (predicted 110 lumen per foot)and either 4 or 6 150W UFO in the 15' section (164 vs 247 per foot)

I'm not to the point of hanging them yet but needing to have electrician start wiring locations soon.

so, I ordered the UFOs and hung them from a short hook on my 10ft ceiling. Using just 1 UFO light, in my otherwise unlit existing garage, standing directly below the light, , I get 280FC but within 7.5 feet I am down to 23FC.
the drop-off in light seems pretty dramatic and I don't see how they can possibly be expected to cover a 17ft wide span with that throw.

So after some discussions they are now recommending I go with linear for less shadows in the corners and edges.

New recommendations- 4- 2ft 160W linear in the 15ft section and 4-2ft 100W linear in each 10ft section.
their maps and calculations show ~85-90 FC at worksurface in all locations.
and they show pretty amazing spread.

So, I also ordered one of their 2ft 160W linear lights (the ones the recommended for the 15' section) and hung it in same spot same distance from the ceiling.

Which has the light surface almost identical to the UFO height in the example above.

I get an impressive max of 375fc standing directly below the light measuring at ~32" from floor (same as I took with the UFO), then standing in the same spot as before (7.5 ft) it drops to 5FC so an even more intense drop-off in light.

Am I expecting too much from these lights?

I find it interesting that I notice the biggest drop-off at 7.5 feet and they have the lights hanging 12.5 feet apart in the maps above.

For comparison, I have a 72W 8600 Lumen 4ft linear I bought off amazon last year (reliability of those specs is unknown) that I used to replace existing fluorescents that were failing. That light gives me 65FC directly below and 5FC at same distance,.7.5Ft

I'm trying not to overthink this but I want to get this right. I am aiming for almost too bright, fine detail task lighting level brightness across the garage, when lights are at at full brightness. then I can use dimmers to dial it back if needed.

I know I'll need drop lights and supplemental lights when under the lift but I want it bright enough when I'm working on wheels and tires or projects on back bench i don't feel the need to open the garage door for extra light like I do now with my 65FC in the center and 5-7 around the edges of the room.

I'm open to suggestions but my testing suggests I'll need twice as many lights as they are calculating to get the coverage I want.

​

 

[Jim greengo]

It will look a lot differant once the sheetrock is installed/finished.

 

[cybrdyke]

Wow, you're getting some really bad advice. Good thing your common sense is kinda telling you that something's wrong. Before you move forward, you should understand that measuring total lumens and square footage will lead you down the wrong path. Lumens per square foot is not a lighting criteria. Also, you should start with a target foot-candle requirement and then find the fixtures that fill that requirement. You're doing it backwards by picking a quantity of fixtures and seeing how much light you'll get.
What you should be looking for is a good amount of light evenly spread across your space. Even light will fill in shadows and reduce contrast. You were correct when you thought that high bay lights were probably not the best choice. The two 10' spaces are too low for highbays. The beam is too tight and you'll get a hot spot on the floor with darker areas surrounding it. Corners will be dark. Sounds like you experienced this.
The 15' space is barely high enough for a highbay and 6 of them in a 30 x 17 space is ridiculous.
I recommend that you look for linear lighting, something in a 4' strip or wrap fixture (not a highbay). Linear lights of smaller power will reduce contrast, fill in shadows and give you better general illumination. Just guessing you'll probably need 8 to 10 rows of 6 depending on how much light you want. Shoot for 70-ish foot candles.
Good luck,
CD

 

[Thomasshawn]

It will look a lot differant once the sheetrock is installed/finished

I'm testing this in my finished garage. This should be exactly how it looks

 

[Thomasshawn]

Wow, you're getting some really bad advice. Good thing your common sense is kinda telling you that something's wrong. Before you move forward, you should understand that measuring total lumens and square footage will lead you down the wrong path. Even light will fill in shadows and reduce contrast. You were correct when you thought that high bay lights were probably not the best choice. The two 10' spaces are too low for highbays. The beam is too tight and you'll get a hot spot on the floor with darker areas surrounding it. Corners will be dark. Sounds like you experienced this.
The 15' space is barely high enough for a highbay and 6 of them in a 30 x 17 space is ridiculous.
I recommend that you look for linear lighting, something in a 4' strip or wrap fixture (not a highbay). Linear lights of smaller power will reduce contrast, fill in shadows and give you better general illumination. Just guessing you'll probably need 8 to 10 rows of 6 depending on how much light you want. Shoot for 70-ish foot candles.
Good luck,
CD

Thanks for the information.

So you're saying like 60 4 ft light fixtures in that 30x17 elevated ceiling or 60 total for the whole 30x50 garage?

Lumens per square foot is not a lighting criteria. Also, you should start with a target foot-candle requirement and then find the fixtures that fill that requirement. You're doing it backwards by picking a quantity of fixtures and seeing how much light you'll get.
What you should be looking for is a good amount of light evenly spread across your space.

I do, sort of, understand the lumen/sqft issue but it was the way it was presented to me so I shared it.

I actually did request 100FC was suggested I could easily get 200FC and dial back so I said, let's see what that looks like. The sheet they showed me has 85-90FC with big drops in the corners. Their suggestions seemed too erratic and so I started buying and testing lights to confirm. So I wasn't really buying structures and seeing the light they put out. it was more of a confirmation. they told me the lights they picked would work and I was confirming before I invested too much into the process.


I tried to keep measurements in FC. My normal area at work is lit to 90-100FC so that's comfortable to me for tasks. I was hoping for something in that range.

I started playing with dialux to model it myself. I found some possibilities but I'm choosing from lights I'm unfamiliar and specs that don't mean much when all I'm seeing is drop down lists of model numbers and shorthand distinctions. So it was kinda fun but not all that helpful.

I was modeling the 10ft sections first. Then modeling the 15foot section on its own. I didn't see an easier way to split the structure or model it as a single structure. There will be some spillover between locations but that's not all bad.

I recommend that you look for linear lighting, something in a 4' strip or wrap fixture (not a highbay)

I'll see if i can find something like that to play with in dialux.

I'd still like LED and I'd rather not have to deal with 15 ft ceilings and changing bulbs and ballasts in the future.

 

[cybrdyke]

Thanks for the information.

So you're saying like 60 4 ft light fixtures in that 30x17 elevated ceiling or 60 total for the whole 30x50 garage?

I do, sort of, understand the lumen/sqft issue but it was the way it was presented to me so I shared it.

I actually did request 100FC was suggested I could easily get 200FC and dial back so I said, let's see what that looks like. The sheet they showed me has 85-90FC with big drops in the corners. Their suggestions seemed too erratic and so I started buying and testing lights to confirm. So I wasn't really buying structures and seeing the light they put out. it was more of a confirmation. they told me the lights they picked would work and I was confirming before I invested too much into the process.


I tried to keep measurements in FC. My normal area at work is lit to 90-100FC so that's comfortable to me for tasks. I was hoping for something in that range.

I started playing with dialux to model it myself. I found some possibilities but I'm choosing from lights I'm unfamiliar and specs that don't mean much when all I'm seeing is drop down lists of model numbers and shorthand distinctions. So it was kinda fun but not all that helpful.

I was modeling the 10ft sections first. Then modeling the 15foot section on its own. I didn't see an easier way to split the structure or model it as a single structure. There will be some spillover between locations but that's not all bad.
I'll see if i can find something like that to play with in dialux.

I'd still like LED and I'd rather not have to deal with 15 ft ceilings and changing bulbs and ballasts in the future.

60 total. Something in the ballpark of 5000 lumen linear strips. I dont think that'll get you to 100, but it should get you to 70 or so. Without a layout, I'm just educated-guessing.
Understand that whoever told you that you could get 200 foot-candles and then dial back is not helpful. Heck, you could get 500 foot-candles and dial back. It's just wasting money. Adding in dimmers adds money, too.
Something like these: https://www.prolighting.com/commerc...ghting.html?length=500&lumen_range=4400-15600

 

[Forgottonia]

Why dimmers in a garage? Unless you'll be sipping wine with your lady while sitting in your convertible 1961 Corvette.

 

[sparky 1971]

If it were mine, I would use 8' strips, each with four 18 or 20 watt, 5000k frosted lamps similar to what's in the best light fixture ever thread. Six rows of three fixtures coupled together (24' long) and each row about 4' in from the edge of a bay. This would probably eliminate the ability to dim, but I wouldn't want them dimmed anyway.
You could also get LED strip lights that are dimmable, but I'm not to the point I trust those yet. I like the ability to change out a lamp if and when one fails.

 

[mike93lx]

Trying to hit 200fc is insane, unless you have so very specific, very high demand needs.

 

[dcg9381]

Why dimmers in a garage? Unless you'll be sipping wine with your lady while sitting in your convertible 1961 Corvette.

Some of sip wine in the garage... Plus or minus the '61 'Vette.

I've got overhead UFO lights. Biggest mistake was not putting a dimmer on them. Our secondary lighting is LED string lights, so we're either on "dim" or "daylight".

I'll never use tube lighting again for high ceiling applications. I have not changed a light in more than 4 years.


OP, just stuff some outlets up there in the ceiling in case you need more lighting. If you're doing high bay UFOs, don't be like me and install a dimmer!