Garage Door getting chewed alive, please help!

[3cargarage]

Hi,

I have a 3 car garage. There is a large door for 2 cars and a single door for 1 car. The 1 car door has been giving me grief.

It seems like whoever installed this might not have done it properly. They connected the bracket directly to the door. Now that area of the door is breaking. I installed a bracket on the bottom to keep that part of the door together but it won't be long before that gets ripped apart and I have an even bigger mess.

I notice that the 2 car garage door has a long bracket running side to side for reinforcement where the door bracket connects directly to.

The 1 car garage door has no such bracket. All of the youtube videos I see show a vertical bracket not this horizontal bracket which is in itself interesting.

Where can I get the same type of bracket for my 1 car garage?

Thanks.

2 pics on the left are of the one car garage door mess. The pic on the right is the 2 car garage.

 

[AndyL]

Disconnect the arm - is it 2 fingers openable?

Most likely you've got a broken spring. Fix that - your opener just moves the door - springs lift the door. This is why it's breaking.

 

[loganb]

Agree, something seems off with the spring and balance of the door. Not sure but is that one of the diy friendly spring tensioner? Haven't heard great things about their reliability

 

[htmdude57]

The long metal piece in pic 3 is a stiffener. Someone should have put one on before hooking up the opener. I had to go to the door seller to buy 2 stiffeners and install them before I self installed my openers. I have a garage with 2 7' x 9' doors.

 

[BillK]

Am I being stupid ? I dont see any type of spring on the door ???

 

[3cargarage]

Disconnect the arm - is it 2 fingers openable?

Most likely you've got a broken spring. Fix that - your opener just moves the door - springs lift the door. This is why it's breaking.

Hi,

I can disconnect the arm again. What do you mean by 2 fingers openable so I can try it out when I get there?

Is this what you mean by the spring?

Thanks.

 

[Bucko]

Am I being stupid ? I dont see any type of spring on the door ???

I was wondering the same thing.

This is the type of bracket that should be used. Rarely do people actually use them and then they wonder why the doors are tearing apart.

Garage Openers and parts Door Adjustable Reinforcement Bracket, 18" L x 24" H - - Amazon.com

Garage Openers and parts Door Adjustable Reinforcement Bracket, 18" L x 24" H - - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

 

[3cargarage]

About where should that spring be if the above pictured spring is not it? Also, brb gonna check the 2 car door and see if there is a spring anywhere.

Thanks so far.

 

[3cargarage]

Ok back. Both garage doors have the same springs in that area (pic in post 6). There is a large black spring and a small silver spring on both. The only thing is that the smaller spring is harder to see because there is grease all over it.

 

[3cargarage]

I just google a possible explanation of "garage door spring" as used in this context.

Lots of pictures like this:

Broken Garage Door Springs, Repair | Easley, Spartanburg, Anderson, SC

Need broken garage door spring repair? Call the experts at Innovative for quality solutions! Proudly serving Spartanburg, Easley, SC, & surrounding areas.

innovativedoorsystems.com

I took a look at my other garage door opener (pictured) and saw no other springs.

It looks like a set of cables moves the rod in the picture.

 

[3cargarage]

The long metal piece in pic 3 is a stiffener. Someone should have put one on before hooking up the opener. I had to go to the door seller to buy 2 stiffeners and install them before I self installed my openers. I have a garage with 2 7' x 9' doors.

Looks like this also referred to as a garage door strut.

 

[MJK]

my thoughts as an ex-industry lackey many years removed

• The door needs to be balanced. This means if you disconnect it and raise it halfway, it stays there. This is accomplished via the spring(s). Be careful if you intend on messing with these. I suspect this is not the main issue.
• It isn't just how the bracket is attached, it is the angle at which it pulls. Where that bracket is, the force is mostly horizontal. And yet the door at that point needs to move vertically. That is why these brackets are typically a bit lower.
• Yes, there should be a re-enforcement panel in the top panel. It doesn't look like your top panel is actually a top panel - or at least it lacks that reenforcement
• Once that top panel starts to bend, it is never going to be the same again. I can see evidence of a couple previous 'fixes'. I suspect you are on borrowed time with that panel.

What you have appears to be an old Wayne Dalton internal spring affair. I forget what they called them but nowadays the fix is to rip it out and replace the spring (singular for one door), tube, reels and cables. I'd bet the top panel is toast too.

I suspect you'd do well to contact a local company and have the top panel and spring assembly replaced, at minimum.

 

[AndyL]

You have springs - they're encased in the eggshaped tube. Still same purpose. Just different packaging.

And no you don't use a traditional operator bracket on a Wayne Dalton 9100/9600 - he's got the updated operator bracket, that's what it's designed to use.

2 fingers light, disconnect the opener - lift door. 2 fingers should be all the force required, if it's more than that - needs attention.

 

[3cargarage]

Stepping

You have springs - they're encased in the eggshaped tube. Still same purpose. Just different packaging.

And no you don't use a traditional operator bracket on a Wayne Dalton 9100/9600 - he's got the updated operator bracket, that's what it's designed to use.

2 fingers light, disconnect the opener - lift door. 2 fingers should be all the force required, if it's more than that - needs attention.

Thanks, will report back tomorrow or so. I will try that test. I also purchased the Amazon bracket mentioned above. The two finger test...do 2 strained fingers count or is it easy like my daughter can lift with 2 fingers? Just trying to gauge things.

 

[3cargarage]

my thoughts as an ex-industry lackey many years removed

• The door needs to be balanced. This means if you disconnect it and raise it halfway, it stays there. This is accomplished via the spring(s). Be careful if you intend on messing with these. I suspect this is not the main issue.
• It isn't just how the bracket is attached, it is the angle at which it pulls. Where that bracket is, the force is mostly horizontal. And yet the door at that point needs to move vertically. That is why these brackets are typically a bit lower.
• Yes, there should be a re-enforcement panel in the top panel. It doesn't look like your top panel is actually a top panel - or at least it lacks that reenforcement
• Once that top panel starts to bend, it is never going to be the same again. I can see evidence of a couple previous 'fixes'. I suspect you are on borrowed time with that panel.

What you have appears to be an old Wayne Dalton internal spring affair. I forget what they called them but nowadays the fix is to rip it out and replace the spring (singular for one door), tube, reels and cables. I'd bet the top panel is toast too.

I suspect you'd do well to contact a local company and have the top panel and spring assembly replaced, at minimum.

Thanks for all of this. I will get the reinforcement bracket, fight the good fight and if all else fails hire someone local.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Am I being stupid ? I dont see any type of spring on the door ???

Wayne Dalton, torque tube style, spring is inside the tube.

You have to take the tube off the brackets and slide the old spring out to replace it.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I can't tell if it says 10, 16 or 18 x 8 door, 10x8, 16x8 or 18x8

Series 9100
white raised panels
I think a 5 panel door

and not sure but I don't think the weight is 115, I think it should be upper left of the sticker, next to WT

That's basically the information you will need to get a replacement spring if it's broken.

 

[3cargarage]

I can't tell if it says 10, 16 or 18 x 8 door, 10x8, 16x8 or 18x8

Series 9100
white raised panels
I think a 5 panel door

and not sure but I don't think the weight is 115, I think it should be upper left of the sticker, next to WT

That's basically the information you will need to get a replacement spring if it's broken.

So while awaiting my action...silly question...(maybe). Can the spring be broken and the door move up and down functionally with the exception of the door staring to tear apart at the top?

 

[Zeke]

So while awaiting my action...silly question...(maybe). Can the spring be broken and the door move up and down functionally with the exception of the door staring to tear apart at the top?

Yes, an opener has the power to lift a single sectional GD with no assistance from springs. But it shouldn't be that way. What if power is out and you need to open the door. You want to lift 110 pounds (or whatever it is)?

 

[3cargarage]

Yes, an opener has the power to lift a single sectional GD with no assistance from springs. But it shouldn't be that way. What if power is out and you need to open the door. You want to lift 110 pounds (or whatever it is)?

Interesting point. I was able to lift the garage door with power out. Not sure if it were 2 finger easy since I have never disconnected the j-arm as a test (yet) but it wasn't awful. Thanks.

 

[racecougar]

Interesting point. I was able to lift the garage door with power out. Not sure if it were 2 finger easy since I have never disconnected the j-arm as a test (yet) but it wasn't awful. Thanks.

How did you lift the door with the operator still connected?

 

[3cargarage]

How did you lift the door with the operator still connected?

I am a newb, but believe I pulled that release on the j-arm. The red thigmajiggy.

 

[racecougar]

I was able to lift the garage door with power out. Not sure if it were 2 finger easy since I have never disconnected the j-arm as a test (yet) but it wasn't awful.

I am a newb, but believe I pulled that release on the j-arm. The red thigmajiggy.

These statements are contradictory and confusing.

 

[Steve W.]

Yep, pulling that red thingmajiggy IS disconnecting the j-arm.

No idea of your daughter's size, but it should not take much to lift the door with the red thingmajiggy pulled.

.

 

[rayra]

Am I being stupid ? I dont see any type of spring on the door ???

lulz. It's the rod thing visible in the top of the third image.

seconding spring is either busted or not adjusted. The door panel is being torn apart as the opener tries to yank it open without spring assist.

And that tiny bracket with one bolt on each busted end is pretty much useless as an sort of reinforcement or repair. All it is doing is tying the broken ends together. It needs to be much longer / more splint like.

 

[3cargarage]

These statements are contradictory and confusing.

These statements are contradictory and confusing.

Sorry, I don't see these statements as contradictory or confusing but please provide me with an opportunity to better articulate.

Thank you.

 

[3cargarage]

Yep, pulling that red thingmajiggy IS disconnecting the j-arm.

No idea of your daughter's size, but it should not take much to lift the door with the red thingmajiggy pulled.

.

Copy that! Will update.

 

[racecougar]

Sorry, I don't see these statements as contradictory or confusing but please provide me with an opportunity to better articulate.

Thank you.

You stated that you've never disconnected the j-arm, but that you've disconnected the j-arm.

Pull the release cord and check the effort required to lift the door. If the door is heavy to lift and won't remain stationary mid-rise, you have a spring issue.

 

[3cargarage]

You stated that you've never disconnected the j-arm, but that you've disconnected the j-arm.

Pull the release cord and check the effort required to lift the door. If the door is heavy to lift and won't remain stationary mid-rise, you have a spring issue.

Oh, that. Sorry...will come back to explain in a little. I see the confusion. Thanks.

 

[NUTTSGT]

So while awaiting my action...silly question...(maybe). Can the spring be broken and the door move up and down functionally with the exception of the door staring to tear apart at the top?

Yes, depending on where the spring broke inside the tube.

However, I wasn't saying that you had a broken spring, just giving some advice if you did and some information on replacement.

 

[NUTTSGT]

There's disconnecting the J-arm and then there's disengaging the locking mechanism on the J-arm.

Basically, doing either one allows the door to be opened without using the opener.

 

[3cargarage]

Copy that! Will update.

At AndyR and Racecougar

Update, I pulled the lever down and could have probably lifted the door with 2 fingers of the same hand with some strain. I could lift the door easily with 2 fingers of different hands pretty easily though. Not sure which is which. I wasn't sure if the test was to be performed with the j-arm pulled down or removing the cotter pin to the j-arm which looks like a lower post mentions.

Also, I hope this explains my likely ambiguous statements about disconnecting the j-arm

Did this pass the test?

Thanks

 

[3cargarage]

Oh, that. Sorry...will come back to explain in a little. I see the confusion. Thanks.

I was wondering the same thing.

This is the type of bracket that should be used. Rarely do people actually use them and then they wonder why the doors are tearing apart.

Garage Openers and parts Door Adjustable Reinforcement Bracket, 18" L x 24" H - - Amazon.com

Garage Openers and parts Door Adjustable Reinforcement Bracket, 18" L x 24" H - - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

I purchased this and have it here but I cannot reasonably figure out how to install it in my case. So far, I am hunting around and so no similar examples of a single garage door setup like mine.

Most examples show lots of horizontal struts and how to mount it based on this. I understand that each door is going to be different but not this different.

***Uploading more pictures for scope***

Any ideas?

Thanks again.

 

[BillK]

Ok, Here is my take on it.

If you can lift it with one hand then the springs are probably ok.

That being said I think the opener "J" bar needs to be attached lower on the door. When the door first starts to open the very top needs to move straight up for a few inches before it comes around the corner and moves horizontally the rest of the distance. With the bracket attached right at the top like your is the opener is pulling on the door and cannot help but bend it and eventually it will break.

If you attach the "j" bar about a foot lower it will be pulling up on the door until the door gets moving around the bend of the tracks.

How are the openers attached on your other doors ??? Take a look at the picture of my door below and you will see what I mean. When mine first starts to move the bar is pulling mostly "up" That is what keeps it from ruining the door.

 

[PoorUB]

If you can open the door by hand it is probably ok as far as spring balance. Will it stay open with the door half way up? If the spring was broken you probebly couldn't open it.

 

[3cargarage]

Ok, Here is my take on it.

If you can lift it with one hand then the springs are probably ok.

That being said I think the opener "J" bar needs to be attached lower on the door. When the door first starts to open the very top needs to move straight up for a few inches before it comes around the corner and moves horizontally the rest of the distance. With the bracket attached right at the top like your is the opener is pulling on the door and cannot help but bend it and eventually it will break.

If you attach the "j" bar about a foot lower it will be pulling up on the door until the door gets moving around the bend of the tracks.

How are the openers attached on your other doors ??? Take a look at the picture of my door below and you will see what I mean. When mine first starts to move the bar is pulling mostly "up" That is what keeps it from ruining the door.

BillK

I edited my post #34 to give a bit more scope. I will try to lift with one hand as well and report back. I have issues with my shoulder so that will be an interesting test.

I think you just simplified one of my suspicions about every single instance looking different than mine. So it's a "J" bar that needs to be installed prior to the adjustable reinforcement bracket linked to on post #7 that I purchased? I did a quick google to try to find such a thing on Amazon but no dice yet. Any source for this? Seems to me it should be even easier to purchase than the adjustable reinforcement bracket but I could be wrong.

My other 2 car garage door is attached to the top metal strut actually which my one car garage door lacks. I was reading that 1 car garage doors can often "get away" without having that strut installed. I can get a picture of that too. I bet that larger door is also headed towards a similar situation.

Updates:

The 1 car garage door opens as if I am curling about 25 pounds one one hand (I have a bad shoulder though). Reminder that I could lift the door with 2 fingers of different hands pretty easily.

Also, here is a pic of how the 2 car garage door attaches.

New Update/Question:

Does this Amazon adjustable reinforcement bracket substitute for that J-Bar maybe? Looking at your pic a bit closer it kind of seems similar to the J-bar in your picture in that it is a "channel shaped" bracket of sorts. Perhaps I am overthinking this.

Thanks.

 

[3cargarage]

If you can open the door by hand it is probably ok as far as spring balance. Will it stay open with the door half way up? If the spring was broken you probebly couldn't open it.

PoorUB. I think it tends to fall actually if I try that. I recall using clamps during a power outage to keep it open. Now at that time I didn't know that "half way" was a reference point. Let me try that out.

Update: I just tried and the door falls at about half speed no matter where I leave it with the j-arm disconnected. I also tried this test on the 2 car garage door and it did the same thing at all points as well.

Thanks.

 

[BillK]

I don't do it for a living but I have installed 2 16 ft doors at my house and replaced one at my shop so I have a pretty good feel for it. I know different brand doors might require different methods but I think what you need to attach the bracket you bought to the door so you can attach your opener about a foot or so lower on the door and I think you problem would be solved. I don't know if you can attach it to the door without the stiffening ribs or not. You can buy the stiffening ribs locally if you need them.

If your door wont stay up by itself half way up it might need the springs adjusted a little bit but it doesn't sound that bad. I bet my 16 ft door takes a good 25 lbs of force to get it started opening.

This guy has a TON of great information and DIY videos. Spend some time watching them.

Garage Door Springs | Garage Door Repair | DDM Garage Doors

Shop for Residential & Commercial Garage Door Springs, Parts, Motors, Extension Springs, Dock Leveler Parts, High Lift Kits, In-House Training. Detailed DIY Instructions Available.

ddmgaragedoors.com

 

[PoorUB]

PoorUB. I think it tends to fall actually if I try that. I recall using clamps during a power outage to keep it open. Now at that time I didn't know that "half way" was a reference point. Let me try that out.

Update: I just tried and the door falls at about half speed no matter where I leave it with the j-arm disconnected. I also tried this test on the 2 car garage door and it did the same thing at all points as well.

Thanks.

The doors should stay open. The springs need a bit more tension.

 

[AndyL]

Ok, if it's relatively easily lifted - find out why it's not super easy - lube (not wd40) on the rollers. See if it looks like its running level - if it's 20ish lbs to lift it - somethings binding; just gotta work through and see what's stuck. Might need a bit more tension - look up your version of torquemaster add a little bit, test and repeat.

Don't install that aftermarket operator bracket - you're just adding weight and pulling on a section of the door not designed to take strain - the old 9100/9600's had that center operator plate removed for a reason - the new style - that cap you've got - was infinitely more reliable. You'll find lots of old threads b**ching about the old bracket held on by tiny little screws and glue peeling off.

Move the existing operator bracket over 3/8" to find fresh material- there's enough slop in the J arm to accomodate it. Wayne dalton sells a strut that can be used to reinforce the top molded strut - i'd put it on first. Your local dealer will have it in stock. In a pinch you can force non WD 2.25" or 2.5" struts to cap over, but why bother - the proper wayne dalton one is usually 2-3$ more.