Lost leg, power company question.

[Radio Flyer]

Over the winter my daughter lost a leg to the meter of her house. Power company came out, pulled the meter and put a temporary fix in place. They said they would have a repair crew come out, but could not say when.

Today was the first time she turned on the A/C. The compressor does not come on. I Facetimed with her and noticed the meter is still out.


Any thoughts on if it may be related? She is 30 min away, and ill check it with a meter tomorrow. Any thing else to look at? Seems too coincidental to me.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Over the winter my daughter lost a leg to the meter of her house. Power company came out, pulled the meter and put a temporary fix in place. They said they would have a repair crew come out, but could not say when.

Today was the first time she turned on the A/C. The compressor does not come on. I Facetimed with her and noticed the meter is still out.


Any thoughts on if it may be related? She is 30 min away, and ill check it with a meter tomorrow. Any thing else to look at? Seems too coincidental to me.

what does that mean?

I would be calling them every day to get it fixed.

 

[Radio Flyer]

what does that mean?

I would be calling them every day to get it fixed.

The actual meter has been pulled out and is laying on top of the box. There is something black, and shaped just like the meter in the socket where the meter goes. I assume it's some sort of jumper device, but don't know for sure. I'm thinking that the device in the socket is jumping from the good leg to the other leg? It definitely is some kind of temporary fix until they can run a new line. If it is a jumper device, it could somewhat explain why the compressor will not turn on.

I'm not there with a volt meter, and I'm just trying to understand what they did, and wondering if anyone else has been down this road that could explain it.

 

[The Cobbler]

if they jumped the other leg she wouldn't have 240v . so the AC wouldn't work. does she have anything else 240? dryer, stove?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The actual meter has been pulled out and is laying on top of the box. There is something black, and shaped just like the meter in the socket where the meter goes. I assume it's some sort of jumper device, but don't know for sure. I'm thinking that the device in the socket is jumping from the good leg to the other leg? It definitely is some kind of temporary fix until they can run a new line. If it is a jumper device, it could somewhat explain why the compressor will not turn on.

I'm not there with a volt meter, and I'm just trying to understand what they did, and wondering if anyone else has been down this road that could explain it.

As said above, if theyre jumping the good leg to the bad, then there isnt potential for 240v and thus anything rated 240v, is not gonna work

I would be calling them first thing in the morning asking them to fix it

 

[Radio Flyer]

if they jumped the other leg she wouldn't have 240v . so the AC wouldn't work. does she have anything else 240? dryer, stove?

Nothing else is 240. I think this is why she hasn't noticed til now.

 

[Radio Flyer]

As said above, if theyre jumping the good leg to the bad, then there isnt potential for 240v and this anything 240v is not gonna work

I would be calling them first thing in the morning asking them to fix it

i guess that's what I'm not sure of. Would they have a device that fits in the meter slot to jump good leg to bad, and more importantly, would they even do it.

Kind of a goofy deal. she called to get the number of our HVAC repairman. She may not need it after all, unless the compressor was damaged from trying to run on 120 volts for hours until they figured out the compressor was not working.

ComEd gave them a 4 hour window to have someone come out today.

 

[wrenchguy]

OP, has there been electrical utility work been done nearby? Does she have underground service to the house.

 

[rlitman]

if they jumped the other leg she wouldn't have 240v . so the AC wouldn't work. does she have anything else 240? dryer, stove?

That's a possibility, but I really doubt it.

I know of one person at work who had electrical issues and asked for my advice. I noticed that one leg was acting funny, so they called the PoCo, who installed a box with an auto-transformer inside that made up for the missing leg. The 50kVA one she got was not much bigger than a meter pan, but was certainly bigger than a meter. However, it looks like the 10kVA version might be what we're seeing here:

Power Back | Temporary Power Restoration Device | Toroidal Transformer

Bridgeport Magnetics Group provides a reliable & efficient power back solution with their BMG Power Back product. Get durable & cost-effective solutions for all your.

www.bridgeportmagnetics.com

Here's a similar 7.5kVA option:


That would provide 240V, but not have the power to run a central AC. However, if the PoCo cannot provide a timely fix, they may still be able to put in a bigger temporary transformer.

 

[grounded-b]

As said above, if theyre jumping the good leg to the bad, then there isnt potential for 240v and this anything 240v is not gonna work

I would be calling them first thing in the morning asking them to fix it

Also, will cause overloading of the neutral in any multi-wire branch circuits.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

i guess that's what I'm not sure of. Would they have a device that fits in the meter slot to jump good leg to bad, and more importantly, would they even do it.

Kind of a goofy deal. she called to get the number of our HVAC repairman. She may not need it after all, unless the compressor was damaged from trying to run on 120 volts for hours until they figured out the compressor was not working.

ComEd gave them a 4 hour window to have someone come out today.

compressor should have overloads that protect it from overheating. they do fail from time to time so you still may need to get it fixed but the PoCo should be liable here since they cant seem to get out there to fix the issue with the service. Im guessing they forgot. give them a call

 

[Radio Flyer]

compressor should have overloads that protect it from overheating. they do fail from time to time so you still may need to get it fixed but the PoCo should be liable here since they cant seem to get out there to fix the issue with the service. Im guessing they forgot. give them a call

Com Ed came out. Said A/C will not work until the broken underground wire is fixed. So that does kinda answer my question.

The initial call was on 3/1/22. Rep said it should have been completed within 30 days. He said someone would be out today with another temporary fix.

Thanks everyone for the help, I’ll let you know what transpires.

 

[markietas]

I had this happen around 4pm one day, I called Duke Energy, within an hour they sent a guy out with one of those transformers. Later the same day, around 8-9pm, a crew showed up with an excavator to dig up and fix the underground wire.

 

[nadogail]

I would be on the telephone to the Public Utility Commission and the local investigative reporter for both the Newspaper and TV.

 

[4 FN 27]

Com Ed came out. Said A/C will not work until the broken underground wire is fixed. So that does kinda answer my question.

The initial call was on 3/1/22. Rep said it should have been completed within 30 days. He said someone would be out today with another temporary fix.

Thanks everyone for the help, I’ll let you know what transpires.

If the are like Excel Energy in the MPLS/St Paul area it takes about 4-6 months after notification before they show up.

That is my experience. I called early August 2014 and they showed up late Feb 2014.

I'll be interested in seeing when they do show up.

 

[83VillageRepair]

Well on the positive side of things there has been no kwh usage since they jumpered the meter out

 

[Radio Flyer]

Well on the positive side of things there has been no kwh usage since they jumpered the meter out

I know what you mean. I'd be at home cranking the A/C. Oh wait, never mind.....

 

[Radio Flyer]

If the are like Excel Energy in the MPLS/St Paul area it takes about 4-6 months after notification before they show up.

That is my experience. I called early August 2014 and they showed up late Feb 2014.

I'll be interested in seeing when they do show up.

I was really expecting to hear "Staffing Shortages" in the conversation.

 

[4 FN 27]

I was really expecting to hear "Staffing Shortages" in the conversation.

I hope it works out for you.

 

[engineer2]

When one leg went out at my house it took some convincing at ComEd. I lost every other breaker. They said it must be a problem in my house. Apparently with the smart meters they can detect problems and they finally came out and hooked up an isolation transformer. It's a 1:1 transformer so it creates the 120VAC missing leg from the good one, and you have all your power back on. I talked to the guys and they said it was good for 100 amps and I should have no problem running my 240VAC air compressor.

A week later their contractor was out fixing the underground cable in a neighbor's yard. Been good ever since. They said problems are typically from fence installation and it may take some time for the line to burn out. They asked about that and I assured them there were no new fences in my area, but I wasn't sure about neighbors farther away.

 

[dogdog]

i guess that's what I'm not sure of. Would they have a device that fits in the meter slot to jump good leg to bad, and more importantly, would they even do it.

Kind of a goofy deal. she called to get the number of our HVAC repairman. She may not need it after all, unless the compressor was damaged from trying to run on 120 volts for hours until they figured out the compressor was not working.

ComEd gave them a 4 hour window to have someone come out today.

Don't touch anything... Con-Ed is a *******, well I guess they are a bit better than national grid. anything from the before meter to your panel is them, but they will always accuse you for not knowing what you are talking about... life of a 1st level call center *******... always wanted to power trip. so be firm and tell them you are not getting 240V and your appliances won't run. if you have a meter fine... just keep in mind, they will flag you for potential stealing power...

I had that situation happened to be twice.... 1st time they say I don't know what I am talking about. told me to get an licensed electrician,

2nd time I knew a bit better and be firm , they send some one in the middle of the night during the storm and fixed it.

and I get harrassment meter reading request from them until recent changes... I moved my meters outside.

if you have smart meter, they will know exactly if that leg is out or not... the recent upgrade meter, changed in my area they have the capability to shut off power from remote , knows how much power I draw, etc. their new system is pretty capable.

 

[mike93lx]

I would be on the telephone to the Public Utility Commission and the local investigative reporter for both the Newspaper and TV.

You have those reporters on speed dial? Feels like that is your go-to threat for action

 

[Sumboodie]

i guess that's what I'm not sure of. Would they have a device that fits in the meter slot to jump good leg to bad, and more importantly, would they even do it.

Kind of a goofy deal. she called to get the number of our HVAC repairman. She may not need it after all, unless the compressor was damaged from trying to run on 120 volts for hours until they figured out the compressor was not working.

ComEd gave them a 4 hour window to have someone come out today.

Would have some really imbalanced loads.

 

[Radio Flyer]

Don't touch anything... Con-Ed is a *******, well I guess they are a bit better than national grid. anything from the before meter to your panel is them, but they will always accuse you for not knowing what you are talking about... life of a 1st level call center *******... always wanted to power trip. so be firm and tell them you are not getting 240V and your appliances won't run. if you have a meter fine... just keep in mind, they will flag you for potential stealing power...

I had that situation happened to be twice.... 1st time they say I don't know what I am talking about. told me to get an licensed electrician,

2nd time I knew a bit better and be firm , they send some one in the middle of the night during the storm and fixed it.

and I get harrassment meter reading request from them until recent changes... I moved my meters outside.

if you have smart meter, they will know exactly if that leg is out or not... the recent upgrade meter, changed in my area they have the capability to shut off power from remote , knows how much power I draw, etc. their new system is pretty capable.

So the latest is 2-5 days to get a crew out. I'm tempted to tell her to call and report an outage to get them out. No smart meter installed at this point, it's laying on top of the box.

 

[Radio Flyer]

Would have some really imbalanced loads.

Good point, that's why I was curios about them installing a "jumper" type device.

 

[dogdog]

So the latest is 2-5 days to get a crew out. I'm tempted to tell her to call and report an outage to get them out. No smart meter installed at this point, it's laying on top of the box.

As long as they acknowledge the problem is at their end. Otherwise it will be a pain to get them moving. I don’t think if it impact a few house hold and they acknowledge the issue working on it, the government really don’t give a ****. Last time I called about national grid harassment on inspecting the meter every months, they just showed me the middle finger and told me to pound sand.

I guess in your situation, if your daughter have a baby, pregnant and elderly at home, some one disable or sick, it’s the only way to get them expedite faster service.

 

[Chukster]

If they haven't been out yet go take some pictures of the meter that's on top of the box, the thing they put in place of it.

Just for your own records you know. Or if you happen to run across your local TV station's consumer reporter, at a party or something. KWIM.

 

[nadogail]

You have those reporters on speed dial? Feels like that is your go-to threat for action

No, I don’t have them on Speed Dial, they are on my standby reserve list. The media is always looking for new material to get the attention of the public.

 

[mike93lx]

No, I don’t have them on Speed Dial, they are on my standby reserve list. The media is always looking for new material to get the attention of the public.

How has that been working out for you?

 

[nh_yota]

I highly doubt the utility would jump the good leg to the bad leg so they are on the same phase because it would overload any multi-wire branch circuits that share a neutral. More likely they jumped a bad meter connection.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I highly doubt the utility would jump the good leg to the bad leg so they are on the same phase because it would overload any multi-wire branch circuits that share a neutral. More likely they jumped a bad meter connection.

In most states a bad meter pan is the responsibility of the homeowner so i doubt its that.

 

[jeepxj]

I highly doubt the utility would jump the good leg to the bad leg so they are on the same phase because it would overload any multi-wire branch circuits that share a neutral. More likely they jumped a bad meter connection.

can confirm they do it here as well with a plug they put into the meter socket until the line repair crew can resolve. i dropped a leg on the feed coming down the pole and they popped it right in until the next morning when i got the real repair.

 

[dogdog]

Hey if the meter is out, "Free" electricity. LOL or if they estimate it, you can at least challenge it for a discount. Then you can call PSC if not.

pretty sure if they pull the meter out and put some temporary fix, it's not your meter pan/box problem.

Minor inconvience for a few days, you really can't speed dial PSC.

 

[PJorgen]

I highly doubt the utility would jump the good leg to the bad leg so they are on the same phase because it would overload any multi-wire branch circuits that share a neutral. More likely they jumped a bad meter connection.

I think I understand MWBCs but can someone explain to me how jumping the two legs would overload the neutral? Use small words, I still learning about electrical stuff.
Thanks

 

[dscheidt]

I think I understand MWBCs but can someone explain to me how jumping the two legs would overload the neutral? Use small words, I still learning about electrical stuff.
Thanks

An MWBC is a 240 V circuit, used as two 120V circuits. because the two hot legs are 180 degrees out of phase with each other, the neutral only carries the difference between the currents on the hot legs. the highest current on the neutral is when one leg is running at full power, and the other is at zero. At that point, it sees the rated current of one of the legs. If both hots are 100%, the neutral is zero.

If you make the two hots on the same leg, the neutral carries the sum of the two hot leg currents, potentially twice what it's rated for.

 

[mike93lx]

If you make the two hots on the same leg, the neutral carries the sum of the two hot leg currents, potentially twice what it's rated for.

And importantly, with no overcurrent protection .

 

[wyliesdiesels]

to add to the above, the 3-wire service to your house is one big multi-wire circuit... with the neutral carrying the difference in load between the 2 ungrounded conductors

 

[PJorgen]

Thanks guys, I actually understand that.

 

[Zeke]

One more thing learned. These meter inserts, never seen one. I've been a contractor for 50 years.

 

[Rhorns]

I work for a utility, and 22 years ago, I was a helper on a trouble crew. When one of the hot legs feeding your house goes bad, you lose your 240 volt feed, and probably half your 120 volt feed. If you have an underground feed, it can be a difficult fix. What the utility did was basically cut you over to a 120 volt feed by jumpering the hot leg to the dead half of your panel. With an overhead feed, it is usually a connection problem, which is an easy fix. Worst case is that the service triplex needs to be replaced, also not a difficult fix. Three months is excessive to get the permanent repair made. It sounds like something fell through the cracks. I'm glad to hear that they will be out in a couple of days.