Best base to buy (magnetic or clamping) for dial indicator to check rotor runout during brake jobs?

[Studly]

My car's brakes start pulsating after about 7,000 miles after my brake jobs. I always use a torque wrench in a star pattern to tighten the lugs and use decent name-brand rotors. However, it keeps happening so I thought I must not be cleaning the hub well enough. On the last brake job, instead of manually wire brushing the hubs, I used a wire brush on my drill and got the hubs nearly spotless. But that was about 7k miles ago, and the pulsing brake pedal is back. Time to get and use a dial indicator to measure and adjust for runout during my future brake jobs!

After reading reviews, most say the Harbor Freight dial indicator is just fine for measuring runout on rotors. However, I haven't done this before, so I'm not sure what the best, most stable base would be -- magnetic or clamping? Should I get the dial indicator at HF that comes with a clamping base? If so, where do you typically clamp it to on your vehicle so it will reach your rotor? Any recommendations would be appreciated!

 

[Fedwrench]

Fowler 72-520-222 Disc & Rotor/Ball Joint Gage W/Micrometer Kit

Buy Fowler 72-520-222 Disc & Rotor/Ball Joint Gage W/Micrometer Kit with an everday low price and fast shipping! JB Tools

www.jbtools.com

I've always used a vise grip style clamp like the one pictured, I don't have any experience with the harbor freight version. One thing I add though is a roller tip for the dial indicator. makes things easier.

Are you using OE rotors or rock auto economy versions?

It might be a case of parallelism or uneven rotor thickness causing your pulsation rather than lateral run out.

 

[dnschmidt]

I don't see what this will accomplish. If the rotors are bad they will be bad from the get-go. Why would they wait 7K miles to begin to warp or go out of parallelism? Could be a caliper problem with the sliders not sliding or the pistons getting stuck in some manner. I agree with Fed’s tool recommendation but I really don’t think this is exclusively a rotor problem.

 

[Studly]

Fowler 72-520-222 Disc & Rotor/Ball Joint Gage W/Micrometer Kit

Buy Fowler 72-520-222 Disc & Rotor/Ball Joint Gage W/Micrometer Kit with an everday low price and fast shipping! JB Tools

www.jbtools.com

I've always used a vise grip style clamp like the one pictured, I don't have any experience with the harbor freight version. One thing I add though is a roller tip for the dial indicator. makes things easier.

Are you using OE rotors or rock auto economy versions?

It might be a case of parallelism or uneven rotor thickness causing your pulsation rather than lateral run out.

Thanks for the tip on the dial indicator. I stick with OE-quality rotors. I've used several brands of mid-range rotors, most recently the Centric 120, and it happens to them all.

 

[Studly]

I don't see what this will accomplish. If the rotors are bad they will be bad from the get-go. Why would they wait 7K miles to begin to warp or go out of parallelism? Could be a caliper problem with the sliders not sliding or the pistons getting stuck in some manner. I agree with Fed’s tool recommendation but I really don’t think this is exclusively a rotor problem.

From what I've learned, at least one of my hub flanges is likely not real flat in spots, even after I clean all the rust off. So that is causing runout on the rotor, which leads to the brake pad material bonding more to the high spots on the rotor, which thickens the rotor in that spot over time, which in my case is the 7k miles. So the trick is to use the dial indicator to match the high spots on rotor with the low spots on the hub. This article explains it better than I can.

 

[240sxguy]

FYI, I had a pair of rotors with pad deposits that created an unbelievably bad brake pedal pulsation. I put a dial indicator on the rotors and they were within spec for runout. Just wanted to give you a heads up that a dial indicator won't always tell you what you thought you needed to know.

 

[humpty]

I have the HF vice grip style indicator. Its OK, I do not use it often so it will be fine but it is pretty crappy overall. If you plan to use it a lot or want it to survive a long time I'd buy a better brand.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

FYI, I had a pair of rotors with pad deposits that created an unbelievably bad brake pedal pulsation. I put a dial indicator on the rotors and they were within spec for runout. Just wanted to give you a heads up that a dial indicator won't always tell you what you thought you needed to know.

Baked in deposits often result in changing degrees.of pulsation as the rotor warms and different areas expand at different rates. Thermal imager is king for finding those right after a test drive.


FWIW hubs can become so rusted and pitted that to get a quality run out number even with a new rotor you need to replace them.

 

[Xcursion88]

No indicator will help you. Nada, zip zero.

We do hundreds of brakes here in a year and I can tell you exactly what your problem is.

Your issue is cheap rotors. Material they use today...thickness, etc.
They're cheaply made but also cheap cost wise hence you don't find anyone advertising "we turn rotors"

For us to take the time to fire up the lathe, set it up, cut, clean up, turn machine off...You're damn near approaching new rotor price from the box stores (AA,Zone, O'Reilly, Napa***.)

Napa is one place that you can get yourself true premium rotors. They offer both cheap junk rotirs and the more expensive premium rotirs.

Some notes...
Just because it says premium doesn't automatically make it so.

The above is all 101 percent true if you're installimg correctly.

Driving style, routes used (hills) all can impact the life of a rotor.

If you're installing them correctly then use OEM rotors if you want them to last a decent amount of time.
If you're warping them in 7k miles you'll ultimately save money getting OEM.

One more note as 7k seems a tad lean even for the junk rotors...

You absolutely positively must replace pads with rotors.
If your rotors are warped...your pads are distorted as well. If you re-use warped pads on new rotors...you'll prematurely wear out the rotors.

It's a daisy chain effect.


*******PLEASE KNOW and understand that "OEM QUALITY" doesn't mean jack ****.

OEM quality is marketing speak. It means it will work the same as the original manufacturer.

What it absolutely positively does NOT mean is it will last or is as good, durable, etc as the OEM parts that came with it new.

Dial indicator or ball joint gauge will do absolutely nothing for your issue.

If I can be any further assistance let know.

Good luck

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Fowler 72-520-222 Disc & Rotor/Ball Joint Gage W/Micrometer Kit

Buy Fowler 72-520-222 Disc & Rotor/Ball Joint Gage W/Micrometer Kit with an everday low price and fast shipping! JB Tools

www.jbtools.com

I've always used a vise grip style clamp like the one pictured, I don't have any experience with the harbor freight version. One thing I add though is a roller tip for the dial indicator. makes things easier.

Are you using OE rotors or rock auto economy versions?

It might be a case of parallelism or uneven rotor thickness causing your pulsation rather than lateral run out.

What roller tip do you use? Having the dial SKRRREEEEETTTCCCHHHH across the rotor is annoying and wastes time. My go to dial is a mitutoyo, hopefully all the "standard size" one inch depth dials share a common thread at the tip for attachments?

 

[Fedwrench]

What roller tip do you use? Having the dial SKRRREEEEETTTCCCHHHH across the rotor is annoying and wastes time. My go to dial is a mitutoyo, hopefully all the "standard size" one inch depth dials share a common thread at the tip for attachments?

I use a central 6485. I don't know if they're standard across lines so, you may want to check with Mitutoyo first. There are a bunch on ebay that might be cheaper to experiment with.

 

[Studly]

No indicator will help you. Nada, zip zero.

We do hundreds of brakes here in a year and I can tell you exactly what your problem is.

Your issue is cheap rotors. Material they use today...thickness, etc.
They're cheaply made but also cheap cost wise hence you don't find anyone advertising "we turn rotors"

For us to take the time to fire up the lathe, set it up, cut, clean up, turn machine off...You're damn near approaching new rotor price from the box stores (AA,Zone, O'Reilly, Napa***.)

Napa is one place that you can get yourself true premium rotors. They offer both cheap junk rotirs and the more expensive premium rotirs.

Some notes...
Just because it says premium doesn't automatically make it so.

The above is all 101 percent true if you're installimg correctly.

Driving style, routes used (hills) all can impact the life of a rotor.

If you're installing them correctly then use OEM rotors if you want them to last a decent amount of time.
If you're warping them in 7k miles you'll ultimately save money getting OEM.

One more note as 7k seems a tad lean even for the junk rotors...

You absolutely positively must replace pads with rotors.
If your rotors are warped...your pads are distorted as well. If you re-use warped pads on new rotors...you'll prematurely wear out the rotors.

It's a daisy chain effect.


*******PLEASE KNOW and understand that "OEM QUALITY" doesn't mean jack ****.

OEM quality is marketing speak. It means it will work the same as the original manufacturer.

What it absolutely positively does NOT mean is it will last or is as good, durable, etc as the OEM parts that came with it new.

Dial indicator or ball joint gauge will do absolutely nothing for your issue.

If I can be any further assistance let know.

Good luck

Thanks for all the tips everyone! I did reuse the pads from last time when replacing the rotors because they looked barely worn after only 7k miles, but I'll be sure to replace them this time ... maybe that is the cause? Earlier causes could be that I didn't clean the hubs well enough, and this latest cause (after I was sure to clean them really well) may be that I reused those brake pads? Thanks for the advice!

 

[Xcursion88]

Thanks for all the tips everyone! I did reuse the pads from last time when replacing the rotors because they looked barely worn after only 7k miles, but I'll be sure to replace them this time ... maybe that is the cause? Earlier causes could be that I didn't clean the hubs well enough, and this latest cause (after I was sure to clean them really well) may be that I reused those brake pads? Thanks for the advice!

I know you cant tell the tone of my text so allow me to tell you I'm not being malicious or nasty.

You are way over thinking this.
Cleaning up the hubs is ok but that's not making a lick of difference. If you've got that much rusty scale on it odds are you've got a whole wheel bearing issue. Think about that...your tire and wheel/rotor are drawn down tight on the on the face of the hub. Now moisture can find it way into the smallest of gaps but you're talking negligible surface rust.

Go ahead and clean them up but it won't help your issue.

Using old pads that have worn distorted will most definitely ruin your rotors. You can't re-wear pads back to being true again.

Trust me when I tell we see all kinds of brake issues and many times it's because someone trying to save a few bucks thinks there's lots of pad left I'll just re-use those.

You can get away with cheaper rotors and pads but they must be installed properly...in other words free-flowing....and must be replaced together.

Good luck

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

I’m surprised no one has mentioned Noga bases. We use them all the time in the shop. I don’t know if they would work with your requirements but they are fantastic.

Like this one.

 

[marak]

I’m surprised no one has mentioned Noga bases. We use them all the time in the shop. I don’t know if they would work with your requirements but they are fantastic.

Like this one.

Hands down my favorite. Pretty slick design and a joy to use.

 

[Studly]

I know you cant tell the tone of my text so allow me to tell you I'm not being malicious or nasty.

You are way over thinking this.
Cleaning up the hubs is ok but that's not making a lick of difference. If you've got that much rusty scale on it odds are you've got a whole wheel bearing issue. Think about that...your tire and wheel/rotor are drawn down tight on the on the face of the hub. Now moisture can find it way into the smallest of gaps but you're talking negligible surface rust.

Go ahead and clean them up but it won't help your issue.

Using old pads that have worn distorted will most definitely ruin your rotors. You can't re-wear pads back to being true again.

Trust me when I tell we see all kinds of brake issues and many times it's because someone trying to save a few bucks thinks there's lots of pad left I'll just re-use those.

You can get away with cheaper rotors and pads but they must be installed properly...in other words free-flowing....and must be replaced together.

Good luck

No problem, I'm a DIYer who is still learning and appreciate your help.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I’m surprised no one has mentioned Noga bases. We use them all the time in the shop. I don’t know if they would work with your requirements but they are fantastic.

Like this one.

Those can be tough to find something to stick to within the wheel well area. Usually I try to wedge it at the strut/knuckle interface.

 

[39CAMC]

What kind of vehicle? There are a few out there that have other problems that present as a pulsing pedal.

DaveW

 

[Studly]

What kind of vehicle? There are a few out there that have other problems that present as a pulsing pedal.

DaveW

The problem vehicle is a 2005 Camry.

 

[39CAMC]

The problem vehicle is a 2005 Camry.

Unfortunately, that is not one I have run across with the issue I was thinking of. Fixed mounted calipers on the Toyota trucks are somewhat infamous for 1 or 2 of the 4 pistons slightly freezing and it causing a massive pulse. Presumably not an issue for you.
FWIW, I would get back to basics (if you haven't already) and make sure the caliper pistons retract freely and move easily on the slides and the pads in the pins. If you haven't already, I would also switch pad brands and/or compounds.

Yeah, parts are **** these days, but really unless you are racing this thing, the chances of multiple rotors having issues after only a few thousand miles is incredibly small. There is something else going on.

DaveW

 

[Komet]

I'd be very suspicious of a sticky caliper that doesn't reproduce the symptoms when the piston(s) are pushed all the way in. I've had a couple cars like that. As soon as wear lets the piston come out enough, it starts acting up again.

I bet your vibes would go away with new calipers, rotors, and pads. Mozzle replace the soft lines too. Good excuse to buy flare nut wrenches.

 

[Mgdoug3]

If you just want a cheap indicator base for the occasional use the HF one will be fine. I thought they were OK quality unit I started using a Mitutoyo and Starrett base and indicators. Those are night and day difference. I can zero the dial without moving the gauge. The next magnetic base I'm going to buy will be a Noga with fine adjustment. The later suggestions are overkill for just checking rotors but this is Garage Journal though.

 

[ItsNemo]

Noga are awesome...the adjustments on them are so smooth and easy to make compared to any of the other ones I've used. I also absolutely hate the snake style or whatever they're called, they never stay put.

 

[Studly]

Noga are awesome...the adjustments on them are so smooth and easy to make compared to any of the other ones I've used. I also absolutely hate the snake style or whatever they're called, they never stay put.

If you just want a cheap indicator base for the occasional use the HF one will be fine. I thought they were OK quality unit I started using a Mitutoyo and Starrett base and indicators. Those are night and day difference. I can zero the dial without moving the gauge. The next magnetic base I'm going to buy will be a Noga with fine adjustment. The later suggestions are overkill for just checking rotors but this is Garage Journal though.

Thanks, do you two prefer the magnetic bases?

 

[shanker]

I used a cheapo Amazon piece and worked great...I'm a DIYer though, not sure how it'd hold up to repeated shop use. I needed it to center the drum on the hub on a D70.

 

[Sumboodie]

No indicator will help you. Nada, zip zero.

We do hundreds of brakes here in a year and I can tell you exactly what your problem is.

Your issue is cheap rotors. Material they use today...thickness, etc.
They're cheaply made but also cheap cost wise hence you don't find anyone advertising "we turn rotors"

For us to take the time to fire up the lathe, set it up, cut, clean up, turn machine off...You're damn near approaching new rotor price from the box stores (AA,Zone, O'Reilly, Napa***.)

Napa is one place that you can get yourself true premium rotors. They offer both cheap junk rotirs and the more expensive premium rotirs.

Some notes...
Just because it says premium doesn't automatically make it so.

The above is all 101 percent true if you're installimg correctly.

Driving style, routes used (hills) all can impact the life of a rotor.

If you're installing them correctly then use OEM rotors if you want them to last a decent amount of time.
If you're warping them in 7k miles you'll ultimately save money getting OEM.

One more note as 7k seems a tad lean even for the junk rotors...

You absolutely positively must replace pads with rotors.
If your rotors are warped...your pads are distorted as well. If you re-use warped pads on new rotors...you'll prematurely wear out the rotors.

It's a daisy chain effect.


*******PLEASE KNOW and understand that "OEM QUALITY" doesn't mean jack ****.

OEM quality is marketing speak. It means it will work the same as the original manufacturer.

What it absolutely positively does NOT mean is it will last or is as good, durable, etc as the OEM parts that came with it new.

Dial indicator or ball joint gauge will do absolutely nothing for your issue.

If I can be any further assistance let know.

Good luck

What rotors are you guys using that only cost $20 each? Last ones I did were about $200 each.

 

[ItsNemo]

Thanks, do you two prefer the magnetic bases?

I've never had good luck with any clamping mechanism to do runout on rotors. I have both a Noga mag base and a cheapo vise grip style one...wheel wells just don't have anywhere good to put them.

 

[Mgdoug3]

Thanks, do you two prefer the magnetic bases?

I do but I use them mostly on my mill and lathe so I have plenty of flat metal to attach it to. I have used a magnetic base before while working on engines but I haven't thrown my cheap HF away just in case I need it one day.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

What rotors are you guys using that only cost $20 each? Last ones I did were about $200 each.

Must have a pricey car. You can buy cheapo white box rotors online for close to that. Rotor costs went way up due to covid supply chain issues causing shortages. I remember being surprised if I had to pay more than $30 delivered for any white box. Hell I could get raybestos coated for just about 30. Now white box is 30-40, coated 35-50.

When I got in the biz about 10 years ago, you could get sub $15 cavalier rotors.


This is all wholesale pricing. You're looking at double those prices at a parts store.

 

[RoninB4]

It's really up to how you want to work but I use a mag base and just find a heavy piece of steel to attach it to. A heavy piece of steel (old brake drum, rotor, etc.) that won't tip or move around is fine. Set the indicator up properly, it gives a comparative not a quantitative reading.

On another note, cheaply made rotors can/will warp as heat cycling releases any residual stress in the steel, turning it into a potato chip. I've also had moderately priced calipers collapse after short use, seizing the piston in the bore. Nothing is stress relieved any more and sometimes new parts will change after a short use. If your rotors are warping that quickly I'd buy good ones and check the piston movement in the bore of the caliper. Sticking pistons can be remedied (sometimes) with a brake caliper hone and careful measurement of the bore for size and to ensure the bore is truly round. Don't go wild with the hone either. Also, as previously suggested, check all sliding pin movements for drag. Hope this helped someone.

 

[WWheeler]

My car's brakes start pulsating after about 7,000 miles after my brake jobs.

Are you by chance a two-foot driver? I only ask because it's common for two-foot drivers to ride the brake ever-so-slightly which will warp rotors prematurely.

If you're not I'd look for other reasons than just the rotors if this keeps happening. Do you live in the rust-belt where your calipers get rusty/crusty?

Bad calipers (sticking pins, pistons, etc), damaged hardware or rust build up on the calipers under the hardware, and even kinks in your hoses, etc can cause issues that get worse and cause sticking at a certain point of piston travel (ie: a certain level of pad wear).

Next time if it were me I'd replace everything with a good brand of pads, rotors and calipers. If you are in the rust-belt or anywhere prone to rust make sure to use new stainless hardware (usually comes with good pads), apply a film of brake grease under hardware and silicone grease to slide pins, and make sure that the pads slide back and forth freely. And if course do a full flush of fluid while I'm at it.

 

[Sumboodie]

Must have a pricey car. You can buy cheapo white box rotors online for close to that. Rotor costs went way up due to covid supply chain issues causing shortages. I remember being surprised if I had to pay more than $30 delivered for any white box. Hell I could get raybestos coated for just about 30. Now white box is 30-40, coated 35-50.

When I got in the biz about 10 years ago, you could get sub $15 cavalier rotors.


This is all wholesale pricing. You're looking at double those prices at a parts store.

Dodge 5500, Ford F450, etc.

 

[Studly]

Are you by chance a two-foot driver? I only ask because it's common for two-foot drivers to ride the brake ever-so-slightly which will warp rotors prematurely.

If you're not I'd look for other reasons than just the rotors if this keeps happening. Do you live in the rust-belt where your calipers get rusty/crusty?

Bad calipers (sticking pins, pistons, etc), damaged hardware or rust build up on the calipers under the hardware, and even kinks in your hoses, etc can cause issues that get worse and cause sticking at a certain point of piston travel (ie: a certain level of pad wear).

Next time if it were me I'd replace everything with a good brand of pads, rotors and calipers. If you are in the rust-belt or anywhere prone to rust make sure to use new stainless hardware (usually comes with good pads), apply a film of brake grease under hardware and silicone grease to slide pins, and make sure that the pads slide back and forth freely. And if course do a full flush of fluid while I'm at it.

Ha, ha, no I don't use two feet on the pedals, but I like how you're thinking of everything! I am in Minnesota where they have bad winters and use tons of road salt, which leads to rust on everything. But I do make sure the calipers are working and the pins are sliding properly, use silicone on the slide pins, 3M copper paste elsewhere on the brakes, etc. Thanks for the tips!

 

[setfocus]

Must have a pricey car. You can buy cheapo white box rotors online for close to that. Rotor costs went way up due to covid supply chain issues causing shortages. I remember being surprised if I had to pay more than $30 delivered for any white box. Hell I could get raybestos coated for just about 30. Now white box is 30-40, coated 35-50.

When I got in the biz about 10 years ago, you could get sub $15 cavalier rotors.


This is all wholesale pricing. You're looking at double those prices at a parts store.

I bought rotors for the '90 cavalier I had maybe 8ish years ago off rockauto for $10 each. I miss that car, z24 debadged, black with the gray skirts and a torquey v6. Most people had no clue what it was

 

[Buckaroo5]

From what I've learned, at least one of my hub flanges is likely not real flat in spots, even after I clean all the rust off. So that is causing runout on the rotor, which leads to the brake pad material bonding more to the high spots on the rotor, which thickens the rotor in that spot over time, which in my case is the 7k miles. So the trick is to use the dial indicator to match the high spots on rotor with the low spots on the hub. This article explains it better than I can.

Cleaning the hub prior to installing the rotor is basic disc brake installation 101 and you are absolutely right to do so. I use a right angle die grinder with the 3M Brake Hub Cleaning tool in this video...

You are also correct to measure the runout with the rotor mounted and torqued on the hub and compare to manufacturers spec. Spec on my Tundra is max 0.002" for front and max 0.008" for rear. Remove rotor and index to next lug and retorque. Measure runout. Repeat until position providing the lowest runout is found. This is called match mounting. Mark the rotor and the hub so that you install in correct position if you have to remove it in the future.

Finally, I have both the vise grip and magnetic mounts but typically use the vise grip - lots of suspension parts are aluminum these days and magnetic won't work.

 

[M635_Guy]

After a few rounds of bad rotors, I'm suspecting the calipers. I always grease the pins when I do pads/rotors, so I have to think you've got a piston that's not happy.

Either rebuild the calipers or get replacements.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Dodge 5500, Ford F450, etc.

Yeah, big boy trucks pay big boy rotor prices. Nothing to compare on those things to an accord.

 

[Studly]

Cleaning the hub prior to installing the rotor is basic disc brake installation 101 and you are absolutely right to do so. I use a right angle die grinder with the 3M Brake Hub Cleaning tool in this video...

You are also correct to measure the runout with the rotor mounted and torqued on the hub and compare to manufacturers spec. Spec on my Tundra is max 0.002" for front and max 0.008" for rear. Remove rotor and index to next lug and retorque. Measure runout. Repeat until position providing the lowest runout is found. This is called match mounting. Mark the rotor and the hub so that you install in correct position if you have to remove it in the future.

Finally, I have both the vise grip and magnetic mounts but typically use the vise grip - lots of suspension parts are aluminum these days and magnetic won't work.

Great tips ... thanks much!

After a few rounds of bad rotors, I'm suspecting the calipers. I always grease the pins when I do pads/rotors, so I have to think you've got a piston that's not happy.

Either rebuild the calipers or get replacements.

You know, I will have to check out the piston. I've only done a dozen or so brake jobs, so still learning and am not sure how to check to see if the piston is working correctly. I'm sure YouTube has something on that, though. Thanks for the help.

 

[mslim]

The problem vehicle is a 2005 Camry.

On the first brake job I did on my wife's 1990 Maxima I bought the best Raybestos pads from Pep Boys. These pads had worked flawlessly on several American cars I had serviced. I couldn't get the squeal out of the pads even with shims and goo. I mentioned to my professional driveline mechanic and he said he only used OE parts from the dealerships on Japanese cars. After taking his advice, I never had another problem. So the question is... Are you using OE pads, pins, and rotors?

 

[Sumboodie]

Yeah, big boy trucks pay big boy rotor prices. Nothing to compare on those things to an accord.

I have over 100k miles on my Jetta, haven't touched the brakes. Towing and hauling with the trucks eats brakes. Plus autotragic trans. Go through a set every few years.