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Zip system sheathing *****, my experience (it can't get wet)

makemenuconfig

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I had a very bad experience with Zip system sheathing (From Huber). It was up for about a month and saw some rain. This caused most of the sheets to buckle, swell, and bow out or in between the studs. But it is structural 1 sheathing so should be able to take some rain. Don't say "oh, that's just OSB being crappy"; I had regular OSB on this project for interior shear walls and it didn't do this. I installed 70 sheets total, 43 were affected to some degree, and 26 were bowed over 1/2" between studs. This is a warning to anybody in the future who is researching Zip.

At the start the rep came out to look and told me it would be fully covered under warranty. Materials and labor, I could do whatever I needed / saw fit to fix the problem. I tried to save them money by replacing only the worst sheets and using a rainscreen to cover the minor ones. They said great! I was happy. They told me my claim was officially approved for materials and labor. Pulled the trigger on a framing crew to replace them.

Then when I was having the sheathing replaced, they said no rainscreen, and no to all of the sheets (just some). I insisted, and they said they would cover the rainscreen. But all of that was for not, because my claim was for $12k in labor and materials. Which considering I got a quote in the 20k range I thought was good. But they say there is a $4k cap, and are being generous offering me $6k. Considering materials costs were over half of that, it's insane that they think this is enough. I want other people to be aware their warranty process is difficult, you may not get what you are told, and they may impose arbitrary and low limits on claims. So take the guarantees they tout with a grain of salt.

So the waterproofing system part is neat, the tape does actually work really well. I want to like the product. But the support / warranty experience was terrible. Huber and the rep's character/reputation were severely tarnished for me as they went back on their word several times. I'm walking away with a loss here, I would advise everyone in the future to avoid the product unless you can guarantee the back side won't get wet during construction at all. And don't trust their warranty, they will throw some stupid low "limit" on it and won't really make you whole.

Gallery of woes:

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reader2580

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I was considering maybe using Zip or a similar, but not if they can't handle getting wet. It would nearly impossible to install the Zip sheathing, sheath the roof, and get the siding on before it rained.
 

jtprettyman

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Strange, I used it exclusively back when I was building houses and never had an issue. Granted this was several years ago, but I really liked their product. Sometimes material is only as good as the people who stand behind it.
 

ddurrett896

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No issues here - all I'll use and just had my detached rained on for the last month. Only thing that pissed me off is that I ordered it from the supplier and 9' sheets showed up. Didn't even know they existed and had to rip 1' off each sheet.
 

dcg9381

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They build with this stuff all the time (my house included, I designed with it). It gets wet. The big deal (as I understood it) was not to over-drive nails which allow water to penetrate the "green" stuff. If you do over-drive (and this always happens) you have to tape the holes.
This stuff is particular about what nails they want you to use and proper pressure, I believe there is an adapter to prevent nails from being over driven. I'll definitely use it again, but don't understand how you managed to have this experience short of a monsoon.

Huber indicates that it's rated for 180 days of exposure.. https://www.huberwood.com/blog/your-zip-system-wall-sheathing-questions-answered
 

jar944

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It's OSB with a foam board attached, provides additional insulation. Comes in various R-values and thicknesses.

That's zip-r. Not regular zip.

I also wonder if I demand and worker/ material shortage is to blame. Isn't zip rated for 12 months exposure.

Edit I see above it's 6months.
 

Hubmonkey

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Have zero issues with our ZIP when our house was built in 2017 and it definitely got wet and did not swell.

Hub
 

ncornilsen

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Sounds like the panels wern't gapped right... you doing the build, or do you have a contractor?
 
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Hank11

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I think I can see that the nail holes were not taped or filled with their sealant. That is very much a part of correct installation. I'm surprised they gave you any credit. Can't tell for sure, but what is the span of your installation? It'll only span 16".

My experience with Zip and Zip R is that if you follow directions it will stand lots more exposure than they promise. One garage stayed open for almost a year before finish exterior walls were put up, and no damage.
 
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PCustoms

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Can't tell for sure, but what is the span of your installation? It'll only span 16".

Looks like 1 row of nails right up the center, I assume 1 under each tape as well so 24" oc.

Did dads garage with this and pretty sure it went all winter and then some with no siding. 0 issues.
 

rayra

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" It is my mission to cost them the rest in bad publicity, so here I am."

This is where I quit paying attention to the OP.

Didn't see anything trying to determine the why or relating what water conditions if any were experienced on the inside surface of the sheets, do to the lack of windows or blocking of the openings.

Been watching a lot of YouTube builders using this material without issue, in many climes, without reported issue. Certainly enough to view the OP's problem with some skepticism.
Especially RR Buildings, in all weather conditions in the midwest and those guys are sticklers for following installation procedures.

Seconding I don't see any nailing sealant applied. And zero words about the depth of nailing as overpenetration is just as big a problem in it acting as an effective barrier. In fact I can't see any fasteners in the bullseyes in the photos presented.
 
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makemenuconfig

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Lots of good questions.

Sounds like the panels wern't gapped right
Most sheets had about 1/8" gap. Zip contains a built in "self-spacing profile" which is supposed to eliminate the need to pay attention to it. I believe this is ineffective. They agreed with me, the rep told me to always cut it off and gap manually. Even sheets with a solid 1/4" gap all around still did this however so I'm not convinced it was the main factor. This is a good point for anybody using this in the future. I never heard anybody talk about this. Here's what their manual shows:

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I think I can see that the nail holes were not taped or filled with their sealant. That is very much a part of correct installation. I'm surprised they gave you any credit. Can't tell for sure, but what is the span of your installation? It'll only span 16".
You do not have to fill nail holes with sealant unless they are severely over-driven. Very few of mine were. I hung and nailed all of these sheets myself, and I was very particular not to over drive them. I use galvanized nails which hold really well. The sheets swelled about 1/8 - 3/16" in thickness but the nails stayed put, so they actually pulled through the sheathing as it expanded making them look over-driven.

Looks like 1 row of nails right up the center, I assume 1 under each tape as well so 24" oc.
Correct, 24" OC.
This is where I quit paying attention to the OP.
Fair point, I was frustrated when I wrote this. I'll update the original post. Really what I'm after is sharing that despite following all the directions very precisely, I still experienced problems with their product. And more than that people deserve to know if a warranty process doesn't go smoothly, as most people will never need to file a claim and thus there won't be a ton of info out there on the process. You see "30 year warranty" on the packaging and get a sense of comfort, but it doesn't mean much if the company doesn't compensate fairly.

Didn't see anything trying to determine the why or relating what water conditions if any were experienced on the inside surface of the sheets, do to the lack of windows or blocking of the openings.
The rain it saw was after standing walls but before rolling trusses, sheathing, and roofing which was a few weeks. But that is not uncommon for a new build. The rep mentioned several problems that could have contributed.
  • The type of trees that make up the strands from the mill this sheathing was produced at is more susceptible to swelling. They are trying to bring online a new mill in the west, but it won't be open for a few more years.
  • The green coating can not expand and contract at all, they are working on new formulations but currently this is an issue. It can make the sheathing do weird things (like this) as it tries to expand and move naturally.
  • We saw freezing temperatures during this period which could have caused even more than normal expansion (this is my bet on the main cause).
Been watching a lot of YouTube builders using this material without issue, in many climes, without reported issue. Certainly enough to view the OP's problem with some skepticism.
It's true, that's how I became sold on the product too. The rep said in my region (northwest) they get a few dozen claims of this exact problem every year. Certainly not for the majority of builds, but it is not an unheard of problem apparently. I am also a stickler for details, I've read the install guide several times so I believe I am familiar and have followed it to the letter. I believe they would have denied my claim outright if I hadn't.

Seconding I don't see any nailing sealant applied. And zero words about the depth of nailing as overpenetration is just as big a problem in it acting as an effective barrier. In fact I can't see any fasteners in the bullseyes in the photos presented.
Again sealant is not called for unless fasteners are very over-driven. See prior note about the sheathing pulling through the nails. My nail schedule is tighter than the bulls-eyes, so not necessarily at every mark. It was inspected though, so it was nailed correctly.
 

Flail

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Kin folk said, “Californias the place you wanna be
Ah! The Pacific Northwest, land of horizontal and gravity defying rain. I’m fixing a couple of walls on my house due to the constant wind, rain and impossiblity of using composite wood materials that face the wind. Makes me wish I had used concrete blocks.
 
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makemenuconfig

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Ah! The Pacific Northwest, land of horizontal and gravity defying rain. I’m fixing a couple of walls on my house due to the constant wind, rain and impossiblity of using composite wood materials that face the wind. Makes me wish I had used concrete blocks.
Yeah, I think our dream home might have to be ICF.
 

jack stand

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This ***** but it's typical in so many things (small print in the warranty) The very popular Hardee is the same. There's a million ways out of the warranty for them.
It seems that you got a ****** batch and this will happen. I've been impressed with the zip products weather resistance even being exposed and unpainted for years on a thrown together little firewood rack for the smoker built out of job scraps. (red 5/8)
You paid a premium for a premium product, I wouldn't stop bitching at them over this. How many other homes in your area have this same "batch"?
 

karoc

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Dang, I am so glad came across your thread cause I was going with zip system. Figuring it would take me while to get installed so good chance they get wet
 
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mike93lx

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Dang, I am so glad came across your thread cause I was going with zip system. Figuring it would take me while to get installed so good chance they get wet
Millions of square feet are installed each year. Giving up because one job went bad?
 

Showkey

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Strange….homes here are waiting 60-180 days with unprotected XIP waiting for windows, siding or labor etc …….without issues.
 

dcg9381

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Sorry you had a problem... I'll continue to use this product (zip-r), I think it's great although it *may* be less expensive to put together a combination of foam panel and OSB yourself (which is what we did over the garage). We've done two projects with it.
 

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CTyankee

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I could write a book about the results I've seen where new and improved, latest and greatest building were used and under preformed. Having worked in building and remodeling homes along the shoreline where some pretty harsh and nasty weather conditions occur I can only speak from personal observations. When you remove the 60-80 year old siding from home after beach front home and below the felt/tar paper is sheathing that looks like it was installed yesterday, you develop a bias to certain time proven materials. But that's JMO, YMMV.
 

karoc

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Millions of square feet are installed each year. Giving up because one job went bad?
Good point, no experience so I have go by what I read. My place will be slow build so I need sheathing that will give me some time and not wrap. One my other post I had ask about just painting inside of Zip to buy more time
 

kinglake

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The rain it saw was after standing walls but before rolling trusses, sheathing, and roofing which was a few weeks. But that is not uncommon for a new build. The rep mentioned several problems that could have contributed.

Am I understanding you correctly in that the walls were stood and ZIP installed before the roof was in place and it sat that way for a few weeks with the interior side of the ZIP fully exposed to the weather? On 24" centers at that?
 

PCustoms

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Good point, no experience so I have go by what I read. My place will be slow build so I need sheathing that will give me some time and not wrap. One my other post I had ask about just painting inside of Zip to buy more time.
Did dads garage with this and pretty sure it went all winter and then some with no siding. 0 issues.
You all set now?
 

NUTTSGT

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I used it on my garage addition and would use it again.

To see the OP's now deleted comment and the problem he's talking about. . . takes away all the creditibility in my book.
 

Max78

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Bad batches happen, and the fact there is so much success makes it more plausible.

I'm all for the clear warranty requirements, but when you have people agreeing to one thing only to later back track and come up with excuses its frustrating. If its so clear they should have been able to tell you right up front that the cap is $4k and not promised anything else. Backtracking and excuse making seems to be the major point of issue here.

If they have a facebook be sure the share your story over there, you might get a different outcome, also be sure the leave reviews on various sites. I had warranty issues (different category) and it was all fixed quick fast and in a hurry after sharing my experience on social media.
 
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slackdaddy1

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I have built a few houses, a few garages and many smaller structures, I have only used rated plywood, nothing else and never will.
Plywood just plain works, period.
These manufactures can try to "dress up" OSB all they want,, but it is still OSB.
I have demo'd 100+ siding sheathing on remodels,, the OSB is always is pis poor shape.
 

ItsNemo

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I have built a few houses, a few garages and many smaller structures, I have only used rated plywood, nothing else and never will.
Plywood just plain works, period.
These manufactures can try to "dress up" OSB all they want,, but it is still OSB.
I have demo'd 100+ siding sheathing on remodels,, the OSB is always is pis poor shape.
100% agreed, OSB is a terrible product, always has been...the only reason it's pushed so hard is it's cheaper to manufacturer out of fast growth **** trees and they can make more profit on it.

Anything I build myself gets plywood, 1/2" in place of things that call for 7/16" and 3/4" in place of things that call for 5/8".
 
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makemenuconfig

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Am I understanding you correctly in that the walls were stood and ZIP installed before the roof was in place and it sat that way for a few weeks with the interior side of the ZIP fully exposed to the weather? On 24" centers at that?
Correct, I wouldn't say it's uncommon to see that here.
To see the OP's now deleted comment and the problem he's talking about. . . takes away all the creditibility in my book.
Sorry you feel that way. Rayra called me out on it and they were right. I shouldn't be vindictive but take it as a learning experience for me and maybe others. I edited my original post because I felt my emotions detracted from having a constructive discussion about this.
I'm all for the clear warranty requirements, but when you have people agreeing to one thing only to later back track and come up with excuses its frustrating. If its so clear they should have been able to tell you right up front that the cap is $4k and not promised anything else. Backtracking and excuse making seems to be the major point of issue here.
I agree, this is basically the entirety of my complaint and reason for posting. I still like the waterproofing system and other benefits Zip provides.
 

walta

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Huber makes Zip and Advantech OSB sheeting. The Advantech OSB subfloors are rated for months of wet time, OSB can deal with being wet and Huber knows how to do it.

I had no problems in 2017 with my Zip build. In fact, I used the zip scraps as stepping stones all around the house after 7 months in the mud the Zip looked to be undamaged.

My guess is you are unlikely to see a dime of reimbursement unless you have a written agreement from Huber dated before the repairs were started. From what I can tell building material warranties are not worth the paper they are printed on. If you somehow manage to get the materials without cost you should go buy lottery tickets because it is your lucky day.

I think you are mistaken when you said the nails heads are not required to be sealed with either liquid or tape. It seems unlikely the instructions have changed since I read them in 2017 to allow less use of the high profit materials, they are in business to sell.

How sure are you the tape joints were rolled with the required J roller? They do not look right to my eye in the photo with 2 arrows

In the photo with one arrow the nail looks to be over driven to my eye.

I think you got a bad batch that was installed without the required gaps.





Walta
 

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NUTTSGT

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On my phone and a bit harder to go back and read this early in the morning..

Did you build this or hire it done ? If you hired it done, is this the contractor's foray into Zip ? Did he ***** about using the stuff ? How much experience does he have ?

I'm only asking because at a 24" OC stud spacing, I wouldn't ( as a DIYer) ran those sheets vertically. That being said, I wonder if that didn't contribute to part of the problem ?
 

Max

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I could write a book about the results I've seen where new and improved, latest and greatest building were used and under preformed. Having worked in building and remodeling homes along the shoreline where some pretty harsh and nasty weather conditions occur I can only speak from personal observations. When you remove the 60-80 year old siding from home after beach front home and below the felt/tar paper is sheathing that looks like it was installed yesterday, you develop a bias to certain time proven materials. But that's JMO, YMMV.
Indeed! We used Hardishake on our roof, and when it was withdrawn from the market after about 10 years I knew we’d have problems. It turns out that the flat surface of the Hardishakes was fine, but the edges would absorb water and deteriorate. We had to rip ours off after only 15 years…

And to the OP - I don’t mind if someone gets a bit salty after getting screwed out of thousands of dollars…
 

1MtnGoat

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I used Zip Board on the roof and sides of my 3,000+ sq. ft. shop. Studs were 16" on center. It saw a number of good rains before getting covered. There were no problems at all. Zip Board is a much denser product than particle board. Due to this it holds fasteners much better
 
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