PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Mike, here’s proof that you’re not alone… picked up a steel frame I had just finished welding for my neighbor; swung it around to load into the back of my truck…
ZMotorsports Shop Projects 2.0
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bigsteve2011
Well-known member
Glad to hear you are feeling better!
Your son is right with the missing radius, probably caused a stress riser in the pinion and caused the failure.
Quality defect in the machining process I would guess.
At work I am amazed at how adding a radius to certain parts will improve the strength and/or life.
Your son is right with the missing radius, probably caused a stress riser in the pinion and caused the failure.
Quality defect in the machining process I would guess.
At work I am amazed at how adding a radius to certain parts will improve the strength and/or life.
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback. Like I mentioned I wasn't going to post any of this because I'm not one to wallow in pity or be a victim. I'm just pissed at myself but figured being pissed at myself wasn't getting anything repaired and back to its normal condition so I had better snap out of it and just get the work done.
Mike, here’s proof that you’re not alone… picked up a steel frame I had just finished welding for my neighbor; swung it around to load into the back of my truck…
Damn Scott, that looks like it would hurt, and in the tender part of the arm. Think of it as a tattooed reminder of the job.
Thank you.
I agree about adding a radius and how it helps to prevent stress risers. I hadn't really even thought much about that when my son grabbed the new pinion and was comparing it to the old pinion then it hit me.
I hope it was in fact a machining or manufacturing defect and not something I would expect to see again. IF I had been screwing around or hot-rodding the Jeep and the failure occurred then I would more accurately know that I was up against the strength limitations of this particular axle. However, that being said, I haven't wheeled this thing any different for the past 50k miles with the 6.2 liter LS engine as I did for the first 90k miles with the little 3.6 liters V6 so I am having a hard time thinking the power input had anything do to with it. IF I drove differently lately vs. earlier then I may think differently about that but I really haven't drive any different than I have 11 years and 140k miles ago.
Even with that in mind, I've been looking at axle upgrades for the rear but do NOT want to step to full 1-ton axles. I do not need nor want a full-floating axle in the rear and the ProRock 44 in the front will handle anything I will throw at it on the 37" tires.
I have been researching the Dynatrac ProRock 60 semi-floating rear axle and the Fusion Dana 60 semi-float rear axles as possible upgrades to my Dana 44 rear axle but I'm not quite sure if either is needed if this was just a fluke incident. I think both would be great upgrades and stronger than my Dana 44 rear axle but just not sure if they're warranted at this point.
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Trapps
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Glad you're on the mend and that it wasn't anything more serious.
SilverJimmy
Well-known member
Mike, I know how you feel about your bronze hammer, I have the same one, and I also purchased it in the early days of my career. I would be very sad if it failed like yours did, but in my 30 years of being a Snap-On dealer, I saw that same damage many times. I also want to point out a few things I have noticed about you and your craftsmanship. I got a similar job like you right out of high school, except it was as a steam plant repairman. I got exposed to journeymen welder/pipe fitters, millwrights, electricians, machinists, instrument techs, equipment and vehicle mechanics, and even painters. Anything that needed to be done we did, we rarely called in outside help. And of all those different trades there were guys who excelled in their field. They were the best of the best. I’m even pretty proud of the level of mechanical skills I attained. I always pay attention to your ring and pinion work you do because one of the jobs that I did a lot of was setting up the primary gear set in a Combustion Engineering Coal Pulverizer. That ring gear was about 4’ in diameter and the pinion was almost as big as my head! Kinda getting off track here, but what I’m trying to say, is that in the 10 years of working at the power plant and then all the years of selling tools I saw many people who were really good at what they did. Great metal fabricators, incredible machinists, paint and body men who could turn the biggest wreck into a show winner. We all know those guys. But where I am amazed is in your skills and levels of workmanship in all areas! Every time I’m reading one of your posts I just think how wonderful it would have been to have been your Snap-On Dealer, it would have been a highlight of my week to have come see you! You have shared with us your love and respect you have for your mentor from your work, but I’m thinking you also are a mentor for many too.
My wife and I just got home from our first trip flat towing our Jeep. Trip was a success, thanks Mike!
Camping at the Mojave Preserve in California.
My wife and I just got home from our first trip flat towing our Jeep. Trip was a success, thanks Mike!
Camping at the Mojave Preserve in California.
jhn9840
Well-known member
Take care of yourself and get better Mike. Missed your posts they are an inspiration.
jhn9840
John
jhn9840
John
WoodsTruck
Well-known member
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macgyver
Well-known member
Mike, my D44 JK rear axle has been fine since 2011 behind our Hemi. It is the 380HP version and I have been rough with it at times. My son has even bounced it a time or two! Glad you are feeling better! Most of last year I was dealing with early heart failure after getting sick early last year. I have bounced back with medications and a lot of working hard.
On the motorhome thing, I am with you there. I still hear from my wife about the time I hit a tree with my awning while parking. (not fixed yet) I also hear about the time I hit a guardrail in a tight turn. (fixed and re-painted) We all make mistakes
On the motorhome thing, I am with you there. I still hear from my wife about the time I hit a tree with my awning while parking. (not fixed yet) I also hear about the time I hit a guardrail in a tight turn. (fixed and re-painted) We all make mistakes
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Did you know they have mobile body shops that will come out and do minor repairs on an RV onsite? Before you return home and park it where everyone can see what backing into a stationary object looks like? Of course I have no firsthand knowledge of this…but I know a guy…
Bigblue&Goldie
Well-known member
You think I could hire him to just drive around and follow my wife?
4 FN 27
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Mike I always say "you get to be a victim for 5 minutes. After that you are a volunteer.". You owned your **** right here in public. That is character in it's truest definition.
I don't see you as a victim but as an inspiration to make things right after the inevitable F'ing up of a "thing". I said it yesterday in the shop to a bunch of people..."The only one not f'ing up is the one that doesn't do anything.". We learn, we move on.
We are always hardest on the guy in the mirror.
Our GM says "You only get 24 hours to beat yourself up. Tomorrow at this time it is the past.".
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XJSuperman
Well-known member
I step away for a few days and it goes crazy in here. Jeesh. Glad to hear you are ok now Mike. Interesting to learn you are human afterall. Its pretty cool your son can swing by on lunch breaks. There have been times I wanted to do that for my parents but distance prevents it.
Thats a pretty wicked pinion failure. Never seen one do that before, and my local guys are parts breakers. Although lately its been more output shafts than pinions, but anyhow...
Thats a pretty wicked pinion failure. Never seen one do that before, and my local guys are parts breakers. Although lately its been more output shafts than pinions, but anyhow...
Bob Heine
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Mike, I'm with Mr.zippy. After you described the first two disasters I cringed because there's always a third. Your hammer makes it four but it's a Snap-on so you'll soon have a new one. Frame the old one as a reminder that things can always get worse.
bugnut
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Mike, glad you are posting again. Fortunately your health is improving and you are solving the mechanical problems and they are within your capabilities.
I look at events like these, when they subside and say prayers of thanks for all the blessings, as there are those to whom these kind of things occurring in their lives become showstoppers!
Pat said it best "We are always hardest on the guy in the mirror."
If we are not then shame on us!
I look at events like these, when they subside and say prayers of thanks for all the blessings, as there are those to whom these kind of things occurring in their lives become showstoppers!
Pat said it best "We are always hardest on the guy in the mirror."
If we are not then shame on us!
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Mike, I know how you feel about your bronze hammer, I have the same one, and I also purchased it in the early days of my career. I would be very sad if it failed like yours did, but in my 30 years of being a Snap-On dealer, I saw that same damage many times. I also want to point out a few things I have noticed about you and your craftsmanship. I got a similar job like you right out of high school, except it was as a steam plant repairman. I got exposed to journeymen welder/pipe fitters, millwrights, electricians, machinists, instrument techs, equipment and vehicle mechanics, and even painters. Anything that needed to be done we did, we rarely called in outside help. And of all those different trades there were guys who excelled in their field. They were the best of the best. I’m even pretty proud of the level of mechanical skills I attained. I always pay attention to your ring and pinion work you do because one of the jobs that I did a lot of was setting up the primary gear set in a Combustion Engineering Coal Pulverizer. That ring gear was about 4’ in diameter and the pinion was almost as big as my head! Kinda getting off track here, but what I’m trying to say, is that in the 10 years of working at the power plant and then all the years of selling tools I saw many people who were really good at what they did. Great metal fabricators, incredible machinists, paint and body men who could turn the biggest wreck into a show winner. We all know those guys. But where I am amazed is in your skills and levels of workmanship in all areas! Every time I’m reading one of your posts I just think how wonderful it would have been to have been your Snap-On Dealer, it would have been a highlight of my week to have come see you! You have shared with us your love and respect you have for your mentor from your work, but I’m thinking you also are a mentor for many too.
My wife and I just got home from our first trip flat towing our Jeep. Trip was a success, thanks Mike!
Camping at the Mojave Preserve in California.
Thank you VERY much. I am beyond flattered.
Like you said, as we begin our careers we just "assume" that everyone can do everything and that's the way it is. Hell, even growing up on the farm, my dad could do anything that needed to be done. From building his home to my brother's home to repairing engines on farm tractors to swapping a bad engine in my aunt's car to building a hay loader because he went and looked at one at a farm implement company. I just assumed that is how all dads were and I was following along trying to be worthy.
When I got into the work force as an apprentice industrial maintenance mechanic I found out that was NOT the case. I worked with a guy who was a hell of a welder and fabricator but the other 8 guys on the crew could barely stick two pieces of metal together. Another guy was a hell of an electrician but seemed to disappear when any mechanical work was needing to be done. I was starting to see a pattern with my co-workers who were good at one or two things and that was it. Then I got to know my boss a little better and he reminded me of my dad in the manner than he did pretty much everything. He could turn a wrench with best of them and then went home and worked on cars in his home garage doing everything from tune-ups to full engine and transmission builds. He was very meticulous, which was the other end of the spectrum from my dad, and I figured I was very blessed to have these two men as an example of what is possible if you put your mind to it.
I don't think I would go to the lengths to say I am a mentor to any of our younger mechanics (or even older now) in our department because most of what I am seeing is they don't want to put the time in to really be good, let alone great, at what they are doing. They can't seem to put their phones down from texting or playing games to really focus on improving their skillsets. Most don't look at their skillset as something that needs to be nurtured and grown, they just think it is what it is and it brings them a paycheck, period.
I was with one of our younger mechanics the other morning who was in the shop welding and the sound wasn't right and I could see his frustration. I through my smock on and went out into the shop to see if I could assist. As we were talking and I was trying to explain that he needed to really watch the puddle and it will dictate what you need to do and he was more concerned about making it look like the pictures on Instagram. I explained that those are great but he had to realize that most of the pictures on Instagram are sitting on a bench with clean and new metal with a machine setting that was the same for the last 10 parts and I was certain that even those people only posted their best pictures and not the bad ones which we ALL have if we are honest with ourselves. I explained that he needed to learn to crawl before he could run. He needed to learn the basics and what is actually taking place and why before he can lay down stack of dimes welds and even then, it won't be perfect on every weld. I could tell I lost him because he just wanted to weld like the pictures he was showing me.
He then asked "how would you do it?" I took a few minutes to wipe down the parts, knocked the edges down, then positioned the cable and gun to where I wasn't pulling against myself or the welder and squeezed the trigger and ran the bead. When done he looked at me and just said "holy ****". I handed him the gun and walked away. I told him if he would like any pointers I would be happy to help but he has to really want to improve and learn the basics first if he is to gain ground. I don't see myself as a mentor to any of these people, I am just trying to encourage my team to always be improving but I think it is going in one ear and out the other.
I am glad to hear your first trip towing the Jeep was a success and went well. Looking forward to hearing about many more as there are a lot of roads out there to conquer.
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Thanks guys, I appreciate the thoughts.
WoodsTruck, damn, I guess I should be thankful it wasn't any worse. That sounds and looks terrible. I'm glad I was only down for about a week and a half and I'm able to get back at it. Tomorrow will be 3 weeks since this all started and other than a little swelling still and soreness by the end of the day I am feeling much, much better.
lilscorpion
Well-known member
We all get tested from time to time and you know the expression - when it rains in pours. I recently had a few weeks (maybe it was also a month) where **** just didn’t go my way. In hind sight, It was probably more my grumpy POV than anything else. A broken perspective if you will.
e.g. of good old trusty hammer breaks, I’d normally say “was gonna break sooner or later, totally got my monies worth out of it.” On a bad month with multiple things back to back I’d say “WHY MEEEEEE!!” And maybe rightly so.
In the moment I can’t pull myself out. I mean I try but the world is just sour and it’s hard to pull myself out. What’s important is you do.
After reading your posts, and using the power of 3rd party observation, I’d offer this perspective -
- We all get in fender benders. The fact you scuffed the RV, which is essentially a driving house, seems more like an eventual certainty than anything else.
- Health is no joke. We get older, this stuff happens even if we try hard to take care of ourselves. Living to play another day is the reward from the sound of it, your wife’s efforts will increase your chances. That’s an odds multiplier.
- manufacturing processes do occasionally result in defects beyond the warranty. If your pinion failed, it wasn’t anything you did. I’ve never heard of anyone so meticulous. It was a defect. *****, but look at the bright side - you caught it at home and we’re able to fix it before it was catastrophic. That’s worth $1MM to me.
- and the hammer, as inwluded go above, go figure out cost per mile and you already know it was a good buy and has earned its place in the toolbox drawer of fame.
Amy if these things happen on a normal day and you’ll brush them off. Happen back to back and it’s tough. The fact you were able to post up about them tho means you’ve taken the punch and you’re back on track. Glad you’re through it, now get you a new hammer!
e.g. of good old trusty hammer breaks, I’d normally say “was gonna break sooner or later, totally got my monies worth out of it.” On a bad month with multiple things back to back I’d say “WHY MEEEEEE!!” And maybe rightly so.
In the moment I can’t pull myself out. I mean I try but the world is just sour and it’s hard to pull myself out. What’s important is you do.
After reading your posts, and using the power of 3rd party observation, I’d offer this perspective -
- We all get in fender benders. The fact you scuffed the RV, which is essentially a driving house, seems more like an eventual certainty than anything else.
- Health is no joke. We get older, this stuff happens even if we try hard to take care of ourselves. Living to play another day is the reward from the sound of it, your wife’s efforts will increase your chances. That’s an odds multiplier.
- manufacturing processes do occasionally result in defects beyond the warranty. If your pinion failed, it wasn’t anything you did. I’ve never heard of anyone so meticulous. It was a defect. *****, but look at the bright side - you caught it at home and we’re able to fix it before it was catastrophic. That’s worth $1MM to me.
- and the hammer, as inwluded go above, go figure out cost per mile and you already know it was a good buy and has earned its place in the toolbox drawer of fame.
Amy if these things happen on a normal day and you’ll brush them off. Happen back to back and it’s tough. The fact you were able to post up about them tho means you’ve taken the punch and you’re back on track. Glad you’re through it, now get you a new hammer!
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Mike, my D44 JK rear axle has been fine since 2011 behind our Hemi. It is the 380HP version and I have been rough with it at times. My son has even bounced it a time or two! Glad you are feeling better! Most of last year I was dealing with early heart failure after getting sick early last year. I have bounced back with medications and a lot of working hard.
On the motorhome thing, I am with you there. I still hear from my wife about the time I hit a tree with my awning while parking. (not fixed yet) I also hear about the time I hit a guardrail in a tight turn. (fixed and re-painted) We all make mistakes
Quinn, that is good to hear and has kind of been my experience, until now.
Funny thing is that in the first 90k driven miles and another 30k plus of dragging it around behind the coach on 35" tires, I never questioned my rear axle because I had upgraded axle shafts and I actually think that when I wheel I am very conservative. I was even running 5.38 gears which as I'm sure you know the pinion is very small once you pass that 5.13 ratio. Most people on the Jeep forums would have you believe that a 5.38 will blow the ring and pinion if you look at it wrong but mine survived 8+ years and 90k miles of daily driving and quite a bit of off-road wheeling. However, I knew how the gears were set up because I am the one who set them up and I drove accordingly knowing that was my weak link in the drivetrain.
When I wheel I am very methodical about wheel placement, the line I am taking and even to the point of knowing where the stresses are in my Jeep as I approach different sections of an obstacle. In my mind I can actually see where the components are moaning and groaning and where they are relaxed and stresses are reduced as I am progressing through a particular obstacle. When I was teaching my son to drive off-road, as well as when we were racing, I would explain that if you are going to push a vehicle (or anything for that matter), you have to know the vehicle, know the components that are most vulnerable and know where that line is that you don't want to cross if you are to have your equipment survive. I used to joke with him about knowing his equipment intimately and treating it with respect is what will get him off the trail and back home safely and that was more of a badge of honor than body damage or broken parts.
I used to think that being a mechanic may be more of a curse than a blessing because of the way I overthink things when we wheel. We wheel with a lot of people who just point and shoot and most of the time their equipment survives and here I am overthinking the stresses of my equipment.
When I went to the 6.2 liter engine and 37" tires about 50k miles ago and about 3.5 years ago I had people coming out of the woodwork telling me I needed to upgrade to full-floating axles with that kind of power or I'd be breaking axles left and right. My response was always the same, "why would I break stuff now if I drive the same as I have for the previous 8 years and 90k miles if I drive in the same manner?"
Now that I have had this pinion failure I have begun to overthink it (shocker I know) and have been contemplating if I should upgrade to something just a little stronger than what I have or just repair the Dana 44 under my Jeep and continue on with life.
I know I do not want a full-floater as it is way overkill for my driving style and my Jeep but I keep leaning towards that ProRock 60 semi-floater as a gap filler between a full floater and what I have now. The ProRock 60 will give me the 9.75" ring gear and larger pinion of a Dana 60, slightly larger bearings and slightly larger axle shafts being 35-spline 1.5". It's not a HUGE step up from what I have but it is a small step which may give me that peace of mind.
As I look at the pinion my mind and gut tell me it is something with the manufacturing process but then that little voice pops in my head that says "yeah, but what about next time?" I can't seem to quite overthinking this breakage as it is really the first thing I've had fail on my Jeep in the past 140k miles and 11-years that has me questioning the reliability.
I know there are a lot of people like yourself that are running V8's and still have the Dana 44 rear axle without issue. Hell even AEV sells their Jeeps with the 5.7 and 6.4 Hemi packages with the Dana 44 and they don't seem to baby them when I've seen them on the trails.
Seeing as how you build Jeeps for a living Quinn, I would appreciate your thoughts.
Thank you.
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I did not know that Scott. However, I don't think I could allow that as my OCD would be going ape-****. It was bad enough when we would get back from a trail during the trip and I'd walk around the side of the coach after unlocking it for the wife to go inside. She would tell me to quit overthinking it as I had a plan and to work the plan. I didn't let it ruin our trip but I'm not going to lie, it damn near did. My wife was the reason I didn't just pack it in and head home.
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Thanks Pat. I've read where you mentioned that on several occasions and it actually sunk in. After owning my **** up and realizing I didn't want it to ruin the trip and I still had to drive the coach home, I devised a plan and luckily my wonderful wife was able to assist me in getting things travel ready and we were able to enjoy the remainder of the trip. Then when we arrived home I put the plan in action to secure the paint and move forward with the repair. I had to actually force myself NOT to go down the path of negativity while I was working on it though, if I'm being honest.
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Thank you. Yep, I'm human. I can jack **** up with the best of them. I'm glad it's not very often and glad I can usually fix my screw ups and move on though. The pinion has me scratching my head as well. I am very conscientious about wheel placement and the possibility of a wheel slipping off a rock and side loading a wheel/tire and bending an axle shaft when I wheel as I always thought that would be the weak point. When I was running 5.38 gears for the first 90k miles I figured that was my fusible link but when I went back to 4.56 gears with the LS swap I seemed to stress less about the ring and pinion and continued my focus on axle shafts. Never in my years have I seen a pinion fracture and fail in that manner.
Thanks Bob. The hammer just seemed to the cherry on top of a **** sundae. I was shocked when I sent a picture to my Snap-on dealer inquiring about the hammer and he said it was covered under warranty and he would get one ordered. I'm not gonna lie, that shocked me.
Thank you and I completely agree, we are the hardest on ourselves and yes, there were some prayers involved. Gratitude that it wasn't any worse, gratitude the axle failure happened during a drive to work and I could safely pull it in the shop until I had time to address it and gratitude no one was injured in any of the incidents. Next came humility and asking for guidance in the repair process.
None of us go through this life on our own and once we recognize that we are already better people for it.
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
We all get tested from time to time and you know the expression - when it rains in pours. I recently had a few weeks (maybe it was also a month) where **** just didn’t go my way. In hind sight, It was probably more my grumpy POV than anything else. A broken perspective if you will.
e.g. of good old trusty hammer breaks, I’d normally say “was gonna break sooner or later, totally got my monies worth out of it.” On a bad month with multiple things back to back I’d say “WHY MEEEEEE!!” And maybe rightly so.
In the moment I can’t pull myself out. I mean I try but the world is just sour and it’s hard to pull myself out. What’s important is you do.
After reading your posts, and using the power of 3rd party observation, I’d offer this perspective -
- We all get in fender benders. The fact you scuffed the RV, which is essentially a driving house, seems more like an eventual certainty than anything else.
- Health is no joke. We get older, this stuff happens even if we try hard to take care of ourselves. Living to play another day is the reward from the sound of it, your wife’s efforts will increase your chances. That’s an odds multiplier.
- manufacturing processes do occasionally result in defects beyond the warranty. If your pinion failed, it wasn’t anything you did. I’ve never heard of anyone so meticulous. It was a defect. *****, but look at the bright side - you caught it at home and we’re able to fix it before it was catastrophic. That’s worth $1MM to me.
- and the hammer, as inwluded go above, go figure out cost per mile and you already know it was a good buy and has earned its place in the toolbox drawer of fame.
Amy if these things happen on a normal day and you’ll brush them off. Happen back to back and it’s tough. The fact you were able to post up about them tho means you’ve taken the punch and you’re back on track. Glad you’re through it, now get you a new hammer!
Matt, thank you very much. I greatly appreciate your thoughts and perspective.
Funny you mention about the "why meeee." Not all that long ago I was one of those grumpy guys that seemed to walk around with a chip on his shoulder and was always daring someone to knock it off. I got to the point where I didn't like the person that was staring back at me in the mirror in the mornings and I realized something had to be done. I didn't like the environment I had created for my son and wife and realized that I had to change. I started doing a lot of soul searching, praying and reflecting on things and once I accepted gratitude, humility and empathy into my life things started changing.
I may be getting a bit personal, but here it goes.....
My wife seems to think much of my anger issues stemmed back to something my mother told me when I was in high school. I had finally found something that I enjoyed (spinning wrenches) and wanted to pursue a career as a mechanic. I had been on the high school automotive team for both my junior and my senior years which was not the norm, usually it was just offered to seniors but my automotive teacher asked me to participate during my junior year. After our senior year competitive our team (myself and three of my fellow team members and classmates) were offered the opportunity to go to Phoenix Automotive Institute for a tour of the campus with our parents and the possibility of maybe some scholarship monies. I was ecstatic and couldn't wait to ask my parents. My mother didn't blink and eye and just said "no, my son is not going to be a damn grease monkey." To say I was devastated is an understatement. I found something I was good at and enjoyed and had the rug pulled out from under me.
This is about the time I met my wife and we started dating. I saved up enough money over the summer after graduating high school to start attending the local college in the fall semester. My parents told me that computers were the future and that is what I needed to go in to. So with that in mind I focused on electronics and computers during the mornings at school, went to work selling auto parts in the afternoons after school and then home to my parent's farm where I would work on cars and bikes for extra money in the evenings. My girlfriend (now wife) would come over and be with me while I was in the shop working and then we would be able to hang out afterwards.
This went on for a while until one day I had an epiphany. Here I was sitting in class learning about something that really didn't interest me all that much just so I could get home and wrench on cars and bikes. I dropped out of college during my third semester and never looked back. Unfortunately, I think I really disappointed my mother. My father on the other hand seemed to be neutral, he really had no opinion, at least not that he shared with me. When I got a job as an industrial maintenance mechanic and quit my job selling auto parts I really couldn't get a read on my parents whether they were pleased or not. However, I was in love by this point and wanted nothing more than putting school behind me, getting into the workforce, getting married and along with my wife to create a life that we could enjoy together.
As I commenced my industrial maintenance career, I continued to build upon my skillset day after day, month after month and year after year and the whole time I was becoming bitter about life. Bitter because I was doing what I wanted and yet I felt as though I was on a path that I shouldn't be on.
I began racing and building street rods, race cars, sand quads, snowmobiles all of which I thought would make me happy because that is how I was defining "success". The people I was looking up to had all of these things and they seemed to be happy so that must have been the common denominator. Like the old saying "he who has the most toys, wins" and I thought that is what defined success. When I was building our street rod in the early 90's, my dad's health was failing and I could tell he was worried about how long he had remaining. He would come out in the shop and talk with me in the evenings while I was working on cars. I could see the light in his eyes about what I was doing and at times I think he wanted to jump in and help but was a bit frail by now. I knew my parent's loved me but I never knew if they were proud of me. The closest thing I ever got to an inkling was when my dad would come out into the shop and sit with me while I was working on either our street rod or other cars. When I built my shop at our home in the early 90's my dad would come by to help even though he couldn't do much due to his failing health. But he showed up almost nightly and sat and watched me and my brother-in-law build my shop and helped wherever he could. This meant a LOT to me. My dad was not a vocal person and didn't talk much, he taught me more by his actions than words. In his own way him coming to my home and helping build my shop was his approval, I think.
My father ended up having some surgery to overcome a health issue and his health seemed to improve for a few years and while I was racing and building more cars he would come along with me at times to shows and races. My parents even accompanied my wife, son and I on a few out of town car shows where our car was featured in several magazines and showcased at a couple of shows such as Auto Rama and Boise Roadster Show. I knew that my mother thought this was a fad or something that would pass. As I would run into people, friends of my parents, extended family members whom we only saw once a year or so at family reunions, etc. they would ask "oh, are you still playing with cars?" At that point I knew that no one was taking me serious about my career choice and that one day I would grow out of this whole "car" thing. That only fueled my anger but also fueled my desire to be the best at what I did. Come hell or high water I was going to show them. I would prove that this "car" thing was my life and not just a passing fad.
When my father passed away in 2002 it knocked the wind out of my sails and I got to the point where I really didn't give a **** about much of anything. I put the car in storage and didn't even look at it for several years. I was pissed off nearly all the time and wasn't shy about letting people know it. This was NOT the life I had envisioned nor the life that my wife and I dreamed about when we were dating. One day I just had enough of being pissed off all the time. Fear of losing my wife and fear of what I was teaching my son scared me straight. My wife told me one of the reasons that she fell in love with me back in high school was because I knew EXACTLY what I wanted in life and nothing or no one was going to get in my way. She said that I couldn't wait to get out of high school so we could start creating a wonderful life together and not look back. I felt like that light or that pedestal she put me on was fading and I didn't like that feeling of disappointing her or my son.
I started doing a lot of thinking, praying and reading inspirational books but mostly my wife and son gave me purpose and enough reason to snap out it. These behaviors were not easily overcome as they had become part of me. I carried a quote around with me that my wife gave to me and I eventually memorized it and said it often when things were not going my way. It that read "be mindful of your thoughts, thoughts become words. Be mindful of your words as they become actions. Watch your actions as they become habits. Watch your habits as they become character. Watch your character as that becomes your destiny."
Going over that in my head really had an impact on what kind of person I wanted to become and what kind of legacy I would leave behind. I wanted my wife and my son to be proud of me and not to have to answer for my behaviors or say "well that was just my dad". Without sounding too mushy or touchy/feely, as I allowed my heart and soul to be opened to accept these changes I began to see an immediate change in my life and I started letting go of the anger that I had been carrying with me all those years.
There are times I still have flashbacks and revert back to old feelings but I try to quickly force myself to move forward and get past it. Otherwise I think I could easily slip back into old behaviors.
Now that my parents have long passed it seems that my love for them has grown more than when they were alive and I know in my heart that they were proud of me even though they never said it. Love? Yes, I knew they loved me but I never knew if they were proud of me.
Sorry for the long diatribe or sad story but sometimes I think I get a little too much credit for not much of anything. A lot of what has happened over this past month or so has allowed me the time to sit and think about things, which I'm not used to. I'm usually not one to sit around after work as I get home and go straight to work in the shop with little time to actually sit and think or dwell on things. Lately I've had more time to think about my life and how grateful I am for those things that have made me who I am today. I don't think I've been as good of a person as I am made out to be. Am I a better person than I used to be? Yes, I think so. But I am still trying each and every day to be worthy of my wife's and son's love and want nothing more in life than to make them proud of me. I would like to think that my skillset is closely linked to my outlook on life and when I am no longer trying to become a better person then any improvement of my skills will also cease.
I appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments. I wasn't sure if I wanted to share any of what has transpired over the past month or not.
signcrafter
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 9, 2012
- Messages
- 12,360
I could tell something was off when I last posted in this thread about no updates in a while but didn't want to pry. Glad things are looking up again Mike. Most of what I have learned in life has come from a screw up and usually costs money to fix. I call it my "college". I could tell you story after story about my learning experiences. I'll be looking forward to more posts from you now that you are feeling better. Was missing my morning shop stories from you and others in the fab section.
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Thank you Scott. I appreciate the comments and thanks for sticking it out with me and following along.
It takes a heck of a man to lay his feelings out in public like you have. I am 69 years old and still remember my mother telling me, after I told her I wanted to become a paint and body man, that I couldn't draw a straight line with a ruler. Anything automotive has always been my hobby. My mother had her own issues and my life continues on with a smile on my face, most of the time.
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Thank you. Not sure if laying it out there is smart or not but I feel we are the people we are because of the obstacles, choices and decisions that we make along life's path and no two are the same.
I somewhat feel obligated to help others to the see the best version of themselves because I was so fortunate to have a couple of great mentors in my life who helped me see my own path. I know people who are great mechanics but for some reason or another struggle at just being a good person and refuse to share the knowledge that they have obtained over the years. I definitely don't know everything, in fact I usually feel that the more I learn the more questions I have. However, I feel that I have been so very blessed in my life and in my career that if I can help someone else on their own path by giving examples or showing them what's possible then maybe in some small way that will make a difference in their life.
I appreciate the comments and thanks for following along.
rattle_snake
Well-known member
Mike you're definitely a mentor to many here on this site, not just in technical mastery but also your character.
Misery can make one appreciate things one takes for granted, even family. Humbling, but allowed me to become compassionate for others, maybe for the first time in my life.
As for your Jeep's rear end, as much I as want to suggest a shaved 14 bolt with portal outers, the 44 you have is sufficient for your application and use. ***** to invest time and money in it again just to get back where you were, but at least it didn't fail on the trail and incur a long and painful recovery effort.
Misery can make one appreciate things one takes for granted, even family. Humbling, but allowed me to become compassionate for others, maybe for the first time in my life.
As for your Jeep's rear end, as much I as want to suggest a shaved 14 bolt with portal outers, the 44 you have is sufficient for your application and use. ***** to invest time and money in it again just to get back where you were, but at least it didn't fail on the trail and incur a long and painful recovery effort.
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Thank you for the kind words Justin. Funny you mention the word humility. It seems there for a while I think I was borderline cocky or arrogant in place of confident. I've always said there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance and I think there was a time in my younger years where I crossed that line. Once I realized that I didn't like the path I was on and allowed humility into my life I was surprised at just how little I actually knew and how much more I had to learn. I've been a student ever since trying to learn everything I can. Seems like the more I learn the more I realize there's more I don't know. For every question I have answered, I have another 3 or 4 pop in my head.
I think I may have to just chalk up the Jeep's rear axle to a component failure, plain and simple. Repair it and move on. The more research I've been doing looking at options of what I can do to build in a little more reliability, it seems that anything above the Dana 44 short of a full-floating 60 or 80 is negligible. The semi-float 60's are only slightly larger in terms of ring gear and axle shafts.
Both the Dana 44 and the Dana 60 have 1.625" diameter pinion shafts. The Dana 60 has a slightly larger ring gear @ 9.75" vs. the Dana 44's 8.8" and even the axle shafts are so stinkin' close with the Dana 60 @ 1.5" 35-spline and the Dana 44 having 1.41" with 32-spline. At this point I'm not sure there is any advantage to spending several thousand dollars just to have something "different" not necessarily any better.
I also know there are people on my exact setup running 37" tires that pound on theirs much harder than I ever will and they've had no failures. I haven't had a failure in 140k miles until now so I think it was a fluke and I should just repair it and get back to enjoying the Jeep both on and off-road.
Dang Mike, no wonder you've been a bit removed - I don't blame you. Looking at that pinion and how deep into the root it broke, how certain are you that maybe you didn't chip a tooth or ? got in between the gear and kapowwed it? I'm sure you've looked but any damage to the pinion bearings?.
As for the fix, I say leave it as is and move one. After all its lasted this long and unless you plan on putting a beating on here should be fine for years and miles to come.
As for the fix, I say leave it as is and move one. After all its lasted this long and unless you plan on putting a beating on here should be fine for years and miles to come.
lilscorpion
Well-known member
As I was reading your story I could t help but think - god gives us tools and it’s up to us to figure out how to use them. I think I general it’s a metaphor but maybe in our case, it’s quite literal.
Our parents wanted the most for us and our parents generation believed that succeeding was in one of the following categories: doctor (what I thought I should go to school for because my dad was one), an attorney, or an executive. In many cases that perception of success was based on school and/or education and likely the resulting perception of prominence in society and/or income (earning power). I think, to some extent, the spirit of their desires were had good intentions behind them however I suspect they had very different measures If success give the generational differences - simpler ways of thinking from a simpler time.
Amazing people, regardless If background, schooling, and chosen profession end up being (big shocker) amazing. I’ll bet money that you’d be an amazing Software Engineer had you instead chosen door 1 instead of door 2.
As for spouses…we should all aspire to find someone with attributes like your wife. She loves what you do best not what you do. Maybe she digs your ride…a plus.
In my age I’ve learned that maybe we as humans **** big time at communicating just how proud we are if our kids. In one breath, I appreciate my sons skills and talents and in the next, how stupid he’s being in a given moment. I constantly battle with figuring out how to balance wanting the best and approving of where they are. I suspect also we get stuck sometimes in a given role and that may explain how your parents were. I see myself getting stuck as I get older too.
I think what’s important is to make sure you’re pouring anything you’re missing into the next generation. As you do, spend that time with your son in the shop tuning his fab skills. Support his need to sell his Harley. Hug when hugs are needed. Support them when they hit the tough spots. Pay it forward more or less. We’re smart enough to know our parents loved us even though they didn’t em say it but one up them - say it.
As for being a good person - life ain’t easy. We don’t get to call the pitches and we sometimes we get curveballs. Regardless we need to get on base and score runs (sorry for the baseball heavy analogy). We’re also human too and I think it’s very difficult to be perfect throughout all our trials and tribulations. We sometimes have to deal with some very challenging things which sometimes take time. Guess what I’m saying is don’t be too hard on yourself. I have a different sort but it’s not that different. It was a journey and I had to go through some hard spots to become who I am. We are sir, a the sum of our experiences.
All this said, your smarts tell you it’s time to upgrade the rear to a Dynatrac 60. I cans send you some inspirational pics if you need them.
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bugnut
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Mike, interesting reading about you and your personal changes and challenges. You are a mentor and role model for others.
May you continue to move to the person you want to be and find contentment in seeing that person in the mirror every day.
I would only add that in our parents generation, an I Love you or I am proud of you, were seldom if ever uttered.
May you continue to move to the person you want to be and find contentment in seeing that person in the mirror every day.
I would only add that in our parents generation, an I Love you or I am proud of you, were seldom if ever uttered.
Boosted1
Well-known member
I am another that checks in here almost everyday as I drink my morning coffee.
Always a pleasure to see what you are up to.
Thanks for sharing.
Always a pleasure to see what you are up to.
Thanks for sharing.
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Thanks Cam.
I wondered about something foreign getting in between the teeth as I don't like running a lot of backlash but when I drained the oil it came out so clean and I didn't see any metallic debris. Plus I am somewhat **** about cleaning the housings when I'm building a rear end and I would assume it wouldn't have waited 50k plus miles to get in between teeth.
That being said, I'm not ruling anything out at this point as I have just never seen one fail where the failure was so far beneath the root of the pinion teeth. I would assume if debris was caught between it would impact the thinner outermost part of the tooth first but that is merely an assumption.
After really looking at spec's there just isn't that much difference between my built up Dana 44 rear axle and a ProRock 60 so rather than spend the money now I think I'll just put it back together and run it and see but it's been fine for the past 140k miles like you said.
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
As I was reading your story I could t help but think - god gives us tools and it’s up to us to figure out how to use them. I think I general it’s a metaphor but maybe in our case, it’s quite literal.
Our parents wanted the most for us and our parents generation believed that succeeding was in one of the following categories: doctor (what I thought I should go to school for because my dad was one), an attorney, or an executive. In many cases that perception of success was based on school and/or education and likely the resulting perception of prominence in society and/or income (earning power). I think, to some extent, the spirit of their desires were had good intentions behind them however I suspect they had very different measures If success give the generational differences - simpler ways of thinking from a simpler time.
Amazing people, regardless If background, schooling, and chosen profession end up being (big shocker) amazing. I’ll bet money that you’d be an amazing Software Engineer had you instead chosen door 1 instead of door 2.
As for spouses…we should all aspire to find someone with attributes like your wife. She loves what you do best not what you do. Maybe she digs your ride…a plus.
In my age I’ve learned that maybe we as humans **** big time at communicating just how proud we are if our kids. In one breath, I appreciate my sons skills and talents and in the next, how stupid he’s being in a given moment. I constantly battle with figuring out how to balance wanting the best and approving of where they are. I suspect also we get stuck sometimes in a given role and that may explain how your parents were. I see myself getting stuck as I get older too.
I think what’s important is to make sure you’re pouring anything you’re missing into the next generation. As you do, spend that time with your son in the shop tuning his fab skills. Support his need to sell his Harley. Hug when hugs are needed. Support them when they hit the tough spots. Pay it forward more or less. We’re smart enough to know our parents loved us even though they didn’t em say it but one up them - say it.
As for being a good person - life ain’t easy. We don’t get to call the pitches and we sometimes we get curveballs. Regardless we need to get on base and score runs (sorry for the baseball heavy analogy). We’re also human too and I think it’s very difficult to be perfect throughout all our trials and tribulations. We sometimes have to deal with some very challenging things which sometimes take time. Guess what I’m saying is don’t be too hard on yourself. I have a different sort but it’s not that different. It was a journey and I had to go through some hard spots to become who I am. We are sir, a the sum of our experiences.
All this said, your smarts tell you it’s time to upgrade the rear to a Dynatrac 60. I cans send you some inspirational pics if you need them.
Very well said Matt.
I completely agree about our parents wanting more for us no different than us wanting for our children. I know now when my mother said "no son of hers was going to be a grease monkey" that she meant she wanted more for me and the best for me. At the time however, and even years later, that was not what I heard.
I think my father saw how much I enjoyed what I did and I actually think he could see that I was good at it but again, from that generation they didn't show their emotions like I do with my wife and son. More than likely it is a generational thing like you mentioned.
I know when I was beginning my career in the 80's being a mechanic was what you did when you couldn't do anything else, almost like a consolation prize if you will. Also, it seemed like being a mechanic meant you were filthy and greasy all the time, at least that is what it felt like based on what we saw in various shops and even automotive classes, so I can see my mothers worries.
I tried explaining to my mom that I was going to be different. I was going to be the one to change that stereotype of what a mechanic is and would eventually be at the top of my game. I think she wanted to believe me but based on her experiences that probably seemed unlikely.
I now know what she wanted for me which is why I mentioned as I get older the love for my parents has grown. As I have aged and my son has grown I know the responsibilities, worries and concerns we have for our children and I also know exactly what they did for me and my siblings growing up. The sacrifices they made so I could learn and grow. I just wish some of my siblings would look at that in the same light and be a bit more appreciative. We were very poor growing up on the farm but I can honestly say I didn't go without. My mother made most of my clothes so I always had clothes on my back, we always had food on the table (granted most was out of our garden or corral) and we were always made to sit at the dinner table after dinner and do our homework. It wasn't until I got into junior high school and began to get teased for having home made clothes that I actually realized how poor we were. I had a great childhood even though we were expected to work in the fields but we also had time to play afterwards. I don't regret my upbringing one bit.
As I look back there are times that I think maybe if I had gone to school and been taught the theory of how things work I wouldn't be as good as I am now because I have had to do so much research and investigating on my own to gain that knowledge. It's funny how we look at things so much differently as we age and obtain more wisdom isn't it?
I remember when I was young I pretty much knew everything. Now that I am older and have done so much more I have discovered I am actually quite dumb.
I very much appreciate your insight and comments Matt. Thank you.
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Thank you guys. I really appreciate the thoughts and glad that you are following along on my thread. I know sometimes I tend to get a little philosophical or deep on my thread compared to just showing projects but it's nice that people read it and it's interesting to hear how many have had similar experiences yet different.
gearhead1960
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Mike,
Happy to see you are still standing. Life has a way of throwing us all curveballs. It's all a matter of having family to support you and the grit to get through it all. You have both....
Happy to see you are still standing. Life has a way of throwing us all curveballs. It's all a matter of having family to support you and the grit to get through it all. You have both....
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Thanks Mark, I appreciate that. Yes, I have a lot of support, probably more than I deserve.
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Finished up the Jeep last night and got her back on the road.
After only two mock-ups I landed on a very nice wear pattern and backlash spec. Here I removed the setup bearing and pressed the new Timken inner pinion bearing on the new pinion.
My shim selection laid out by various thichnesses for quick mock-ups.
Outer bearing on the bearing heater in preparation for final assembly of the pinion. Also have the adapter bolted to the yoke for assembly.
New bearings pressed on the carrier, new ring gear bolted and torqued to spec on the carrier and after a couple of test fits and only needing to shift a few thousandths worth of shims I landed on a great wear pattern with .007" backlash. Bearings being oiled and carrier prepped for final installation.
Final assembly, great looking wear pattern, case spreader removed and carrier caps torqued to final spec.
Ready to install the differential cover and insert the axle shafts then assemble the brakes and she's ready for fluid and a test drive.
Took her out for the first test drive and heat cycle on the new gears. Everything seems to be smooth and quiet. A few more heat cycles and after about 500 miles I'll rack it, drain the initial fluid, inspect everything and fill with new oil and she's ready for the next off-road trip.
Thanks for looking.
After only two mock-ups I landed on a very nice wear pattern and backlash spec. Here I removed the setup bearing and pressed the new Timken inner pinion bearing on the new pinion.
My shim selection laid out by various thichnesses for quick mock-ups.
Outer bearing on the bearing heater in preparation for final assembly of the pinion. Also have the adapter bolted to the yoke for assembly.
New bearings pressed on the carrier, new ring gear bolted and torqued to spec on the carrier and after a couple of test fits and only needing to shift a few thousandths worth of shims I landed on a great wear pattern with .007" backlash. Bearings being oiled and carrier prepped for final installation.
Final assembly, great looking wear pattern, case spreader removed and carrier caps torqued to final spec.
Ready to install the differential cover and insert the axle shafts then assemble the brakes and she's ready for fluid and a test drive.
Took her out for the first test drive and heat cycle on the new gears. Everything seems to be smooth and quiet. A few more heat cycles and after about 500 miles I'll rack it, drain the initial fluid, inspect everything and fill with new oil and she's ready for the next off-road trip.
Thanks for looking.
sweet. i bought all the parts to regear my truck from 4.10 to 5.13 but havent got around to it yet. some of whats holding me back from tearing into it is ill probly have to use a ring gear spacer in the front and i dont know if the spacer thickness will take away all the ID locating connection between ring gear and carrier. in other words the ring gear would then be completely dependant on the ring bolts for locating to the carrier
OP
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Depends on the application but in the couple of spacers I have had to use over the years due to smaller pinion it wasn't enough to completely miss the ID interference on the carrier. It's not ideal but they worked. Can you check and see if "thick cut" gears are available for the application and that would negate having to use the spacer?
For the record, it is the ring gear bolts that do the majority of the power transfer anyways as the interference fit between the ring gear and the carrier is negligible.