Options for adapting NEMA 14-50R

[jakogut]

When I wired my garage, I had the foresight to install a NEMA 14-50R near the panel for a welder. Now that the garage is in good shape, I've borrowed a welder to do some jobs, but the cord has a NEMA 10-30P, and doesn't fit my outlet. Suffice it to say the owner doesn't want me changing the cord or plug to match the outlet, even temporarily, I'm only permitted to use the welder, not make modifications.

I hopped on Amazon to see if they had any adapters from 14-50R to 10-30P, with the former being electrically compatible with the latter. It seems they have a lot of adapters, mostly sketchy looking cables that adapt 50A devices like car chargers for 30A receptacles (yikes), but nothing specifically to solve my problem.

Of course, making an adapter wouldn't be too difficult, but it got me thinking that maybe I should install another permanent 10-30R next to the 14-50R, and just have a short cable coming out of it that plugs into the 14-50R. Then again, I don't currently have anything using the 14-50R, so maybe I should just swap it out for the 10-30R. Should I install a permanent receptacle with a cable coming out of it, make an adapter from a short length of cable and the ends I need, or just swap out the receptacle? Are there any code implications to any of these options? Am I overthinking this?

 

[jeepxj]

you'll need to swap the breaker out for a 30a as well if you swap out for a 10-30R.


this is unreal they make it but.... do with this knowledge what you may.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MJHJVY8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[jakogut]

Thanks for the link, but $60 is highway robbery.

Is the breaker change necessary to protect the terminals of the lower rated receptacle or something?

 

[gtae07]

I put a 14-50 in my shop too. Made an adapter/extension cord for the welder so I can move it around the shop. The outlet came in handy when I was using an old electric range to bake parts.

OSHA doesn't inspect my shop...

 

[mike93lx]

A 14-50r has nearly no application outside of an oven. If you want to weld, I would change the receptacle and breaker. Keep the old receptacle and breaker on hand.

 

[sparky 1971]

A 14-50r has nearly no application outside of an oven. If you want to weld, I would change the receptacle and breaker. Keep the old receptacle and breaker on hand.

Rv's for sure. I installed two 14-50R's last week for Tesla chargers. The guy pulled the cord out of the trunk and it was a 14-50P. Now, I will admit to not looking to see if it was a factory cord or someone had screwed around with it. I was also at another house where the previous owner had a 14-50 in the garage that the new owner claimed was for a car charger, I used that wiring for a hot tub since it was within 5' of where I needed it to be.

 

[mike93lx]

Rv's for sure. I installed two 14-50R's last week for Tesla chargers. The guy pulled the cord out of the trunk and it was a 14-50P. Now, I will admit to not looking to see if it was a factory cord or someone had screwed around with it. I was also at another house where the previous owner had a 14-50 in the garage that the new owner claimed was for a car charger, I used that wiring for a hot tub since it was within 5' of where I needed it to be.

Fair enough. Those are only the bigger rv's, at least. Car chargers are a good point

 

[jakogut]

Now I'm leaning towards just permanently installing another outlet with a dedicated circuit, if I need a new receptacle and breaker anyway.

 

[yatg]

Swapping out the receptacle is the cheapest and easiest.

You'll need to swap it again to a 6-50r when you get your own welder.

Another adapter, $26.40

ONETAK NEMA 14-50P to 10-30R​

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PB5GCTM/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[sparky 1971]

Now I'm leaning towards just permanently installing another outlet with a dedicated circuit, if I need a new receptacle and breaker anyway.

You could just go to the nearest box or hardware store and buy a 14-50P to put on the cord. Just don't hook up the neutral terminal. Put the 10-30 back on when you give it back. You could also order one from Amazon. If you get your own 240 volt welder, it's going to have a 6-50P on it.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0787V3TJC/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[pattenp]

The 10-30 is totally wrong for this use. It is the old style plug that is ungrounded where the neutral is bonded at the appliance. The proper plug/receptacle to use for a welder is either the 6-30 or 6-50.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

When I wired my garage, I had the foresight to install a NEMA 14-50R near the panel for a welder. Now that the garage is in good shape, I've borrowed a welder to do some jobs, but the cord has a NEMA 10-30P, and doesn't fit my outlet. Suffice it to say the owner doesn't want me changing the cord or plug to match the outlet, even temporarily, I'm only permitted to use the welder, not make modifications.

I hopped on Amazon to see if they had any adapters from 14-50R to 10-30P, with the former being electrically compatible with the latter. It seems they have a lot of adapters, mostly sketchy looking cables that adapt 50A devices like car chargers for 30A receptacles (yikes), but nothing specifically to solve my problem.

Of course, making an adapter wouldn't be too difficult, but it got me thinking that maybe I should install another permanent 10-30R next to the 14-50R, and just have a short cable coming out of it that plugs into the 14-50R. Then again, I don't currently have anything using the 14-50R, so maybe I should just swap it out for the 10-30R. Should I install a permanent receptacle with a cable coming out of it, make an adapter from a short length of cable and the ends I need, or just swap out the receptacle? Are there any code implications to any of these options? Am I overthinking this?

as said above, the 10-30p is completely incorrect for the utilization equipment. it is a 120/240v non-grounded receptacle. is the guy using it on a dryer outlet? thats the only circuit that would use that style receptacle

I would make an adapter instead of installing the wrong receptacle in your shop. the correct receptacle for a welder is either a 6-30 or 6-50

 

[jeepxj]

Rv's for sure. I installed two 14-50R's last week for Tesla chargers. The guy pulled the cord out of the trunk and it was a 14-50P. Now, I will admit to not looking to see if it was a factory cord or someone had screwed around with it. I was also at another house where the previous owner had a 14-50 in the garage that the new owner claimed was for a car charger, I used that wiring for a hot tub since it was within 5' of where I needed it to be.

14-50 is a normal adapter for the mobile tesla units. its the popular option for 240v portables.

they do make a ton of variety that you can swap around.



What kind of 14-50R's are you putting in? been some issues on the cheapo ones melting due to continuous use.

 

[sparky 1971]

What kind of 14-50R's are you putting in? been some issues on the cheapo ones melting due to continuous use.

P&S Legrand

 

[jeepxj]

P&S Legrand

yea those are a slight worry. you suggest to them to check connections yearly?

 

[csp]

Unless the welder owner is dropping by to inspect, I'd swap out the plug on the welder and swap it back when you're done. The owner won't know if he doesn't see it or hear about it.

 

[American Locomotive]

Don't over think it. Just make a break out adapter. People put all kinds of weird plugs on their 240v equipment, and never the right ones. So it's not worth it trying to accomodate everything. Plus you legally can't have a 10-30 and a 14-50 on a 50A breaker (although I suppose you could have both on a 30A breaker, but 10-30 isn't permitted for new installations anymore). Most high-current welders should have a 6-50 plug, not a 14-50 or a 10-50.

Unless the welder owner is dropping by to inspect, I'd swap out the plug on the welder and swap it back when you're done. The owner won't know if he doesn't see it or hear about it.

Honestly this. I wouldn't have even asked - just swapped the cord and swapped it back.

 

[ToolFanGeoff]

14-50 is a normal adapter for the mobile tesla units. its the popular option for 240v portables.

they do make a ton of variety that you can swap around.



What kind of 14-50R's are you putting in? been some issues on the cheapo ones melting due to continuous use.

I have a Bryant 9459FR 14-50R in my garage for the wife's Tesla. The Bryant receptacle is made in the USA, and seems to be very well made.
I got it from Grainger. A few dollars more than the local box store part, but it does seem to be quality.
Geoff

 

[mike93lx]

Unless the welder owner is dropping by to inspect, I'd swap out the plug on the welder and swap it back when you're done. The owner won't know if he doesn't see it or hear about it.

If a friend lent me something and was clear he didn't want it modified, I'd respect his wishes, but maybe that's me. I'd decline the offer before ignoring him

 

[jeepxj]

I have a Bryant 9459FR 14-50R in my garage for the wife's Tesla. The Bryant receptacle is made in the USA, and seems to be very well made.
I got it from Grainger. A few dollars more than the local box store part, but it does seem to be quality.
Geoff

check it yearly if you feel comfortable doing so. pull the plate and check all the connections.

 

[csp]

If a friend lent me something and was clear he didn't want it modified, I'd respect his wishes, but maybe that's me. I'd decline the offer before ignoring him

Generally I'd agree with this, but removing the wiring from one plug and putting it in another, then switching it back is completely harmless. It's quite insane IMO that the friend doesn't want that to happen. Sounds to me like he has no clue as to what's actually involved to do this.

If I had a friend that made demands such as this with something to simple I'd pass on using the tool to begin with. What if something actually happens to the welder and it becomes damaged or otherwise unusable? The owner would probably lose his mind.

 

[mike93lx]

Generally I'd agree with this, but removing the wiring from one plug and putting it in another, then switching it back is completely harmless. It's quite insane IMO that the friend doesn't want that to happen. Sounds to me like he has no clue as to what's actually involved to do this.

If I had a friend that made demands such as this with something to simple I'd pass on using the tool to begin with. What if something actually happens to the welder and it becomes damaged or otherwise unusable? The owner would probably lose his mind.

I really don't get this. So you don't care what a friend wants because you think it is trivial? I bet you would be less then happy if your friends modified your stuff after explicitly asking them not to.

 

[infinkc]

I would just make an adapter, buy a pigtail cord and receptacle . If you buy a wall mount receptacle you can mount it on the wall near the current one also if you plan to use it more frequently.

 

[Sumboodie]

When I wired my garage, I had the foresight to install a NEMA 14-50R near the panel for a welder. Now that the garage is in good shape, I've borrowed a welder to do some jobs, but the cord has a NEMA 10-30P, and doesn't fit my outlet. Suffice it to say the owner doesn't want me changing the cord or plug to match the outlet, even temporarily, I'm only permitted to use the welder, not make modifications.

I hopped on Amazon to see if they had any adapters from 14-50R to 10-30P, with the former being electrically compatible with the latter. It seems they have a lot of adapters, mostly sketchy looking cables that adapt 50A devices like car chargers for 30A receptacles (yikes), but nothing specifically to solve my problem.

Of course, making an adapter wouldn't be too difficult, but it got me thinking that maybe I should install another permanent 10-30R next to the 14-50R, and just have a short cable coming out of it that plugs into the 14-50R. Then again, I don't currently have anything using the 14-50R, so maybe I should just swap it out for the 10-30R. Should I install a permanent receptacle with a cable coming out of it, make an adapter from a short length of cable and the ends I need, or just swap out the receptacle? Are there any code implications to any of these options? Am I overthinking this?

Welders don't use that 4 prong outlet.

 

[sparky 1971]

Just go to the nearest box store and for $5-$7 buy a 10-30R, put it in place of the 14-50R, do the welding, then put it back the way it was. Nothing is going to get hurt, I know the receptacle is "only" rated for 30 amps, but nothing bad is going to happen. If it's a concern, get a two pole 30 amp breaker for $15, unless it's a QO, then it's going to be closer to $35.

 

[csp]

I really don't get this. So you don't care what a friend wants because you think it is trivial? I bet you would be less then happy if your friends modified your stuff after explicitly asking them not to.

I wouldn't lend a tool to a friend that I thought would do harm to it. Maybe you get that. My friends have enough faith in me to know that if I do modify something I borrow, it's coming back in better shape than when it left them. My friends aren't completely lacking in common sense either. I borrowed a tire machine that was full of hoses that sprung leaks every time it was used due to age. It was returned with all new airbrake lines and hasn't leaked in the six or seven years since I swapped out all of the lines.

BTW it's not modifying anything, it's temporary. The plug is has is not molded to the cord. It can come off with no changes to the cord/machine and be returned to the exact state it is currently in. Maybe you get that, but probably not.

What would happen if a prong accidentally broke off of the plug?! Oh my, that would just be horrible, the machine would be rendered useless.[/sarcasm]

And yes, it's about as trivial as can be.

 

[The Cobbler]

I .....

BTW it's not modifying anything, it's temporary. The plug is has is not molded to the cord. It can come off with no changes to the cord/machine and be returned to the exact state it is currently in. Maybe you get that, but probably not.

....

well, some people respect others wishes, the owner asked him not to tamper with it. so he should ignore the request? We may think it's an ureasonable request, but we aren't the owner of said machine.
we don't know why he asked for it not to be changed...maybe he's afraid OP has no electrical skills & will screw it up by hooking it up incorrectly I'd be pissed if I loaned somone something & they did something that I asked them not to .

 

[wyliesdiesels]

well, some people respect others wishes, the owner asked him not to tamper with it. so he should ignore the request? We may think it's an ureasonable request, but we aren't the owner of said machine.
we don't know why he asked for it not to be changed...maybe he's afraid OP has no electrical skills & will screw it up by hooking it up incorrectly I'd be pissed if I loaned somone something & they did something that I asked them not to .

Oh the irony here. The welder has the wrong plug to begin with and thus is hooked up incorrectly. So the OP cant screw it up anymore than it already is by putting the correct plug on it.

 

[mike93lx]

Oh the irony here. The welder has the wrong plug to begin with and thus is hooked up incorrectly. So the OP cant screw it up anymore than it already is by putting the correct plug on it.

No argument that it doesn't make any sense.

It's still what the owner wants

 

[dogdog]

Thanks for the link, but $60 is highway robbery.

Is the breaker change necessary to protect the terminals of the lower rated receptacle or something?

This is how I would have done it.

Just make a pigtail adapter for it. Just keep in mind those plugs and receptacles are not cheap. Will probably run you close to $40 or $50. I spec my garage to have 14-30 receptacles all over and my welder is on 14-30p but it is a 120 240 and 480 1p/3p 60hz only, capable one I make few extra pigtails from 5-20 to 14-30 when I need the welder to run 120v so keep it short as possible. It will be specific for that welder only pigtail. So keep that in mind if it is a 240v welder most likely it need hot hot and ground/not neutral.

Just to add. One of the benefit that making your own pigtail for the borrowed welder is that even though the attached 10-30 is the wrong plug for a 240v welder. You can adapt it to the proper pin. Just have to keep in mind that this pigtail is specific to this welder only.
Your wire selection is the minimum of that welder's wire on the AC input, so if they are #8 wires, it better be #8 or larger.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

This is how I would have done it.

Just make a pigtail adapter for it. Just keep in mind those plugs and receptacles are not cheap. Will probably run you close to $40 or $50. I spec my garage to have 14-30 receptacles all over and my welder is on 14-30p but it is a 120 240 and 480 1p/3p 60hz only, capable one I make few extra pigtails from 5-20 to 14-30 when I need the welder to run 120v so keep it short as possible. It will be specific for that welder only pigtail. So keep that in mind if it is a 240v welder most likely it need hot hot and ground/not neutral.

Just to add. One of the benefit that making your own pigtail for the borrowed welder is that even though the attached 10-30 is the wrong plug for a 240v welder. You can adapt it to the proper pin. Just have to keep in mind that this pigtail is specific to this welder only.
Your wire selection is the minimum of that welder's wire on the AC input, so if they are #8 wires, it better be #8 or larger.

this is not true as code allows the wiring for welder circuits to be reduced and is sized by the welders duty cycle.

 

[jeepxj]

Rv's for sure. I installed two 14-50R's last week for Tesla chargers. The guy pulled the cord out of the trunk and it was a 14-50P. Now, I will admit to not looking to see if it was a factory cord or someone had screwed around with it. I was also at another house where the previous owner had a 14-50 in the garage that the new owner claimed was for a car charger, I used that wiring for a hot tub since it was within 5' of where I needed it to be.

well at least its "smart"

 

[dogdog]

this is not true as code allows the wiring for welder circuits to be reduced and is sized by the welders duty cycle.

are we talking about the wire size selection for the pigtail or the infrastructure run from the breaker to the outlet ?

That would be interesting to have a code that covers pigtail wire size selection?

 

[mike93lx]

are we talking about the wire size selection for the pigtail or the infrastructure run from the breaker to the outlet ?

That would be interesting to have a code that covers pigtail wire size selection?

The wire between the breaker and receptacle is what code addresses. It can be downsized based on duty cycle. For most welders use in a home shop, #10 is plenty on a 50a breaker

 

[dogdog]

The wire between the breaker and receptacle is what code addresses. It can be downsized based on duty cycle. For most welders use in a home shop, #10 is plenty on a 50a breaker

But I am talking about selecting the wire size for the pigtail. It should not be smaller than the size of the wire extending from the welder.

 

[Walkers]

The solution to this is painfully easy for any GJ guy. You swap the outlet to a 6-50, which is standard for most welders, and you go buy your own welder!

 

[dogdog]

I've borrowed a welder to do some jobs, but the cord has a NEMA 10-30P, and doesn't fit my outlet. Suffice it to say the owner doesn't want me changing the cord or plug to match the outlet, even temporarily, I'm only permitted to use the welder, not make modifications

The solution to this is painfully easy for any GJ guy. You swap the outlet to a 6-50, which is standard for most welders, and you go buy your own welder!

That is the problem with OP. Not his welder.

Most welders at 240V does not come with plugs, maybe they are different now with these miller started trends. It's easy to change them out at the welder end and replace it back or change the outlet temperory to 10-30, or pigtail...

 

[The Cobbler]

Oh the irony here. The welder has the wrong plug to begin with and thus is hooked up incorrectly. So the OP cant screw it up anymore than it already is by putting the correct plug on it.

I know you like to cite code all the time, and that's fine. the point here is, the owner asked for the OP not to tamper with the plug. right or wrong how it's done now, doesn't give the OP the right to start changing things at will . maybe you'd be happier having the OP having a conversation with owner & educating him on the fact it's not code compliant?

 

[jakogut]

To wrap this one up, the owner of the welder is a friend that inherited it, and it has sentimental value. After some discussion, they did finally agree to swapping the plug after understanding it's temporary, and it would be returned in the same condition or better.

I do intend to purchase my own welder, but I was offered the use of this one in the meantime, which I greatly appreciate. Thanks for your input, everyone.

 

[mike93lx]

To wrap this one up, the owner of the welder is a friend that inherited it, and it has sentimental value. After some discussion, they did finally agree to swapping the plug after understanding it's temporary, and it would be returned in the same condition or better.

I do intend to purchase my own welder, but I was offered the use of this one in the meantime, which I greatly appreciate. Thanks for your input, everyone.

Glad you got to this outcome. It's the best scenario, just don't screw up the welder!