Tools of Japan
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Madjik Man
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Those of you with Ko-Ken ratchets, how's the comfort grip holding up? Looking at ordering a 3726Z or a Snap-on hard stubby flex.
I know, completely different price points..
In terms of use I've barely used my Koken. Maybe 4 projects? So no long term use or valuable insight. But it's still in pretty much mint condition.
4xdog
Well-known member
This is true!
Years ago I was removing the MAF sensor for cleaning on my first Gen 1 Tacoma (a 2001), and I d*mned near stripped the first of two screws before I realized it was JIS -- with dot and everything. Quick like a bunny I switched to one of my Vessel JIS drivers and took both out effortlessly.
JIS only for me since then. They indeed work better for any crosspoint screw.
Yup I agree, similar experience for me. It was taking off the IAC to clean for me, have the dots (again I got an 01 also, 03-04 don't have em). The screws for the glove box & driver's kick panel or whatever it's called (panel under the steering column) are JIS but I don't think those had the dot, I forget.This is true!
Years ago I was removing the MAF sensor for cleaning on my first Gen 1 Tacoma (a 2001), and I d*mned near stripped the first of two screws before I realized it was JIS -- with dot and everything. Quick like a bunny I switched to one of my Vessel JIS drivers and took both out effortlessly.
JIS only for me since then. They indeed work better for any crosspoint screw.
Seems like the body & interior has a mix of JIS & Philips screws but everything on the engine that I've needed to touch are all JIS. Since then I don't bother figuring out or trying to remember which screws are which, I just always grab my Vessels when working on my truck.
General Geoff
Well-known member
Speaking of the MAF, that reminds me, I too boogered my MAF & IAC screws a bit. Since I take those off somewhat frequently (every year or so), I bought socket head SEM screws for them. Took me a while to figure out what these type of screws were called (captured washers).
I forget if I installed them already. I believe I did put them on the MAF but not the IAC yet. IAC I had to clean like every year to deal with cold start issues. But the last time I cleaned it I took the entire thing apart & scrubbed it well instead of just spraying, hasn't gave me trouble for a few yrs now. That was right before I decided to buy the SEM screws.
The Ko-ken Zeal ratchet is not so much of a "comfort" grip as in its not soft rubber/rubberized surface. Its hard plastic that's been chemical/oil resistant in the last 2 years of my not so regular usage (say once a month on average). I would say that i prefer this grip (i have the 3725Z - non-flex head Zeal ratchet in 3/8") for low torque applications as the grip might slip in greasy/oily hands if applying higher torques (which probably is not a concern since you wont be able to apply high torque due to the shorter handle on the Zeal ratchet).Those of you with Ko-Ken ratchets, how's the comfort grip holding up? Looking at ordering a 3726Z or a Snap-on hard stubby flex.
I know, completely different price points..
HenryAZ
MEMBER EMERITUS
So that's the secret I could not remember. I just sent an inquiry.
toddmorr
Well-known member
Heavy use for 2+ years, some knicks on both but they clean up quite well
superautobacs
Well-known member
Unknown(edit: likely OH Industrial) for the nylon soft-face hammer.
Part numbers shown in the last photo.
Note the 8mm and 10mm nut driver handles are the largest size Megadora, noticeably larger than the flat head and #2 crosshead shown for reference.
Toyota part numbers shown here.
Cool Toyota tools.
Last time I saw those nut-drivers, I saw it with a different grip:
In some recent year they tried to address that, but apparently it was a bit much to do. If they did, it'll likely drive up the cost in production.So I've been involved with a construction project from hell (currently in arbitration if that helps explain things). And I've been without my garage for nearly two years.
All my tools are in a storage unit two miles away. Inconvenient. So a lot of my tools are sitting in the corner of my bedroom and for the past two years I've been buying new tools or upgrades to the tool set I have. In the late 80s I bought the classic Craftsman (USA) mechanic set. I've added to it here and there but for the most part it has served me, and my moderate DIYing, very well.
Early this year I spoiled myself with my first ever ratchet purchase in 30+ years + some extra goodies.
All Koken
Koken Z Series 3/8 Ratchet Flex Head 178mm length (my go to ratchet now, even though I'm still getting used to a flex head)
Koken 2725Z 3/8 ratchet in 1/4 body (when I first opened this I laughed at how tiny it is. But I love this ratchet for smaller stuff.)
Koken 3/8 shallow socket set metric
Koken 3756z3/8 Ratchet Quick Spinner
Koken 16mm spark plug socket
When I put these sockets on the Koken ratchets there's very little wiggle, if any at all. It's really impressive coming from 30+ year old Craftsman ratchets and sockets which almost feel like wobble/universal at this point with how much play the anvil/head has.
I love the texture on the socket base. Knurling is always nice but this texture is more subtle and very grippy.
One note that I'm a little disturbed by is the stamping on the sockets. As you can see in the pictures, the alignment is all over the place. Especially noticeable when they are in the socket rail provided with the set (which is really nice). The size stampings point right, point left, off center left, etc. And trust me, I've tried every 90* orientation to line them all up but to no avail. The stampings are off.
Pretty shocked for how extremely tight the tolerances are on everything Koken.
In the end it won't matter because the eventual socket rails I'll be using for organization will have circular posts to place the sockets vs the standard square anvil-like
My decade-old 3/8 flex-head has a grip that has had a rotating grip for about 6 months now. Otherwise, it still in good shape.
I've had my eye on the Ko-ken Zeal ratchets too. I think I read somewhere that the Zeal ratchets direction selector is "reversed", as in flip to right to tighten/on instead of the usual flip to right to loosen/off?
Can anyone confirm this? I really hope not cause that's a deal breaker for me. I just can't get used to backwards ratchets having been programmed in my brain for so long. I won't use/buy em if they're backwards unless I have no choice.
Can anyone confirm this? I really hope not cause that's a deal breaker for me. I just can't get used to backwards ratchets having been programmed in my brain for so long. I won't use/buy em if they're backwards unless I have no choice.
pizza
Well-known member
(koken zeal, nepros)
both above are set to tighten (will turn fastener clockwise).
pretty sure all koken ratchets with selector switches work in the same sense, not just zeal.
Awe damn, I guess no Zeal for me. Thanks for confirming.
That was the very 1st thing I checked when I got my Nepros. So glad they aren't "backwards", I would have sold them if they were. I never knew there were ratchets from Japan that were backwards too, didn't think to research before buying the Nepros. Didn't know until I heard about the Zeals. I thought mostly only the ratchets coming out of Taiwan with the same pawl design were backwards.
How about the non-fine tooth Ko-Ken ratchets, the ones with the knurled handles, are they backwards too, I assume no (sounds like it according to your post)? I like fluted knurling so I like they way these look but not sure If I want to buy a new coarse tooth ratchet anymore since I really don't need anymore ratchets.
pizza
Well-known member
as i said, i'm basically positive that all koken ratchets are "backwards". even non-zeal.
though many would consider nepros ratchets backwards.
though many would consider nepros ratchets backwards.
Moose-LandTran
Well-known member
as i said, i'm basically positive that all koken ratchets are "backwards". even non-zeal.
though many would consider nepros ratchets backwards.
My ¾" Koken ratchet is definitely backwards.
Awe damn x2.as i said, i'm basically positive that all koken ratchets are "backwards". even non-zeal.
though many would consider nepros ratchets backwards.
macgee
Well-known member
I believe Koken uses the same orientation as Proto, and Nepros use the same direction as Snap-On, Mac, Hazet.....etc. As Pizza shows above.
And yes I agree; it can be very annoying to use an opposite direction ratchets after getting use to one way. My dyslexia doesn't need that test when trying to get a job done. Too bad Nepros doesn't use knurling on their handles
And yes I agree; it can be very annoying to use an opposite direction ratchets after getting use to one way. My dyslexia doesn't need that test when trying to get a job done. Too bad Nepros doesn't use knurling on their handles
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pizza
Well-known member
it actually doesn't bother me because i don't have it memorized.
my thought process: set the wrong way? flip the selector switch.
my thought process: set the wrong way? flip the selector switch.
Qualitytools
Well-known member
I don't think I have ever payed attention to the lever direction either in all of my 45 + years of using ratchets. As Pizza said if it's not turning in the direction I need I just flip it the other way.
I don't pay attention either to which way the direction lever is pointing. For me it's second nature, I don't have to think about which way I need to turn it, I just do it unconsciously. But when I grab a ratchet that is backwards it throws off my qi (chi), imbalances the space time continuum, makes me mad, & wastes my time. Ok it doesn't actually piss me off but it annoys me & when wrenching time is not money for me anymore.
It really only annoys me for lever type switches. I'm sure I have ratchets with a rotary type switch that some may be "backwards" but those don't bother me at all. I guess maybe it's because it's a 2 hand operation to switch and I tend to look & check the direction on them anyway. Not as simple as flipping to left or right so it hasn't been permanently burned into my brain.
It really only annoys me for lever type switches. I'm sure I have ratchets with a rotary type switch that some may be "backwards" but those don't bother me at all. I guess maybe it's because it's a 2 hand operation to switch and I tend to look & check the direction on them anyway. Not as simple as flipping to left or right so it hasn't been permanently burned into my brain.
I believe ISO or DIN standard new Phillips screwdrivers are all compatible with JIS nowadays too (and Vessel screwdrivers are also made to the DIN/ISO standard).
I'm not entirely sure, but I believe the screwdrivers made to the ANSI/original Phillips standard sold in the US are the only problematic ones today.
I have heard that repeated a few times, often by people who haven't used Japanese crosshead drivers.
Vessel may also comply with ISO or DIN standards but that does not mean that every ISO or DIN driver is exactly the same.
The difference in fit between my Vessel, Bahco, and Wiha drivers on a JIS fastener is night and day. Japanese tools are for the most part still designed to work well with JIS fasteners; European drivers just aren't.
4xdog
Well-known member
Yep, I believe you have that exactly right, @F-22. It’s probably not strictly correct to call any current Vessel driver JIS at all, as the original crosspoint Japan Industrial Standard has been withdrawn as far as I know.
But even compared to European crosspoint drivers, Vessel still wins for fit and function in my book.
CGarage
Well-known member
Agree.....My Vessel JIS Philips screwdrivers and bits fit Philips fasteners the best out of all my collection which includes many other premium US and European brands.
From what I remember the old JIS standard is no longer used & has been superseded by whatever DIN/ISO standard. Most of us know this, we just tend to call them JIS still, much easier to identify. I've never looked up DIN or ISO standards, not for screwdrivers anyway, but whatever Vessel makes them to, the Megadora & TD series screwdrivers that I have fit JIS screws pretty much perfectly, they just work without worry.
Whatever Wera, Wiha, & Witte makes em to must be a different DIN/ISO standard (or ANSI) that isn't fully compatible with JIS cause mine don't fit JIS screws nearly as well, especially Wiha precisions for small screws. They don't give me any confidence if a JIS screw is on tight. But as we've been saying, the Vessels work great on Philips too. Makes me wonder why I even bother to use my Wera, Wiha, Witte, etc screwdrivers.
Whatever Wera, Wiha, & Witte makes em to must be a different DIN/ISO standard (or ANSI) that isn't fully compatible with JIS cause mine don't fit JIS screws nearly as well, especially Wiha precisions for small screws. They don't give me any confidence if a JIS screw is on tight. But as we've been saying, the Vessels work great on Philips too. Makes me wonder why I even bother to use my Wera, Wiha, Witte, etc screwdrivers.
I think the standard for general electrical screws is different. I know Wiha is popular for that so maybe your screwdrivers use that standard instead. I used PB Swiss "phillips" screwdrivers on old Japanese engines and imo they fit as well as Vessel.
I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say general electric screws but I used to work in electronic repair. That company only purchased tools for the techs from vendors they normally buy from. So Wiha was one of the main tool brands we used.
Laptops & other mobile devices pretty much always used "JIS" screws, Wiha precision screwdrivers & bits didn't fit them well but it's what the company classified as quality tools so that's what we got. I tried to explain the whole "JIS" thing but of course no one was gonna listen or go through the trouble of sourcing the tools.
At home for Wiha I have screwdrivers only the "precision" drivers, no full sizes. I have small Vessels too now. Other than the rare occasional repair of electronic devices & changing the batteries for my Mitutoyos, the only "JIS" screws I really encounter now are on Japanese vehicles. Or should say something like back to again. First time I ever encountered JIS screws was working on mainly Hondas at a shop but back then I had no idea what a JIS screw was or where to get proper screwdrivers for them.
Laptops & other mobile devices pretty much always used "JIS" screws, Wiha precision screwdrivers & bits didn't fit them well but it's what the company classified as quality tools so that's what we got. I tried to explain the whole "JIS" thing but of course no one was gonna listen or go through the trouble of sourcing the tools.
At home for Wiha I have screwdrivers only the "precision" drivers, no full sizes. I have small Vessels too now. Other than the rare occasional repair of electronic devices & changing the batteries for my Mitutoyos, the only "JIS" screws I really encounter now are on Japanese vehicles. Or should say something like back to again. First time I ever encountered JIS screws was working on mainly Hondas at a shop but back then I had no idea what a JIS screw was or where to get proper screwdrivers for them.
Ko-ken selectors are the right way, every one else who uses the opposite is "backwards" LoL
Ko-ken ratchets are the only ones i use and even with these, i dont "remember" the selector switch orientation, i just check if the ratchet is set for clockwise or anti-clockwise in the few seconds time it takes to grab it and put the socket on then apply it on the fastener. It shouldn't be a big deal IMO.
HenryAZ
MEMBER EMERITUS
Yep, my basic Ko-ken 1/4" set (not Zeal), includes a backwards ratchet. I have several other 1/4" ratchets that I use instead, not because the Ko-ken is backwards, but because I prefer the other brands' designs (Wera roto head, Nepros regular and flex head, and Hazet T-handle).
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Odd-job
Well-known member
Inflation *****, but I noticed that the US dollar hasn't been this strong against the Japanese yen since pre 2000...
I think I can cobble together a "complete" set of Tone "super long" aviation style (0 offset) wrenches for $66. These are cheaper than Taiwan offerings... are these made in Taiwan? Any feedback?
Any other brands I should look out for like KTC? Looking to place my first Amazon Japan order...
I think I can cobble together a "complete" set of Tone "super long" aviation style (0 offset) wrenches for $66. These are cheaper than Taiwan offerings... are these made in Taiwan? Any feedback?
Any other brands I should look out for like KTC? Looking to place my first Amazon Japan order...
I love it lol. Koken's switch convention actually makes more sense to me, although I never check it while working.
Their switches point in the direction that the fastener will rotate - both of these will LOOSEN the fastener, AKA Counter-clockwise.
Gregthegadgetguy
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- Jun 5, 2021
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Try and get the KTC wrenches, that way you know country of origin. Tone can be tricky. see link below.
AND, Koken ratchets are backwards. I never thought about switch orientation but when I first started using Koken it is one of the first things I noticed. Like most, I grew up on craftsman. We might not memorize what way the switch is facing but it’s been ingrained in our brains since the first the we used a ratchet.
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Odd-job
Well-known member
Thanks will go for the KTC's even though I prefer the satin finish of the Tone's.
Gregthegadgetguy
Well-known member
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- Jun 5, 2021
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Those KTC wrenches have a satin finish also
Odd-job
Well-known member
Even better. Thought I saw glass in the description. Many thanks for the input.
I have noticed that double box end wrenches are often called "glasses" wrenches or spanners in japan, i.e. that they look like a pair of spectacles.
Odd-job
Well-known member
Good to know. Here I was thinking and wrongfully assuming, that glasses was referring to a mirror like finish. Also looked a few pages back and another member recently purchased said wrenches. Definitely satin.
Reed Prince
Well-known member
I've only opened a handful of laptops, having mostly encountered Japanese screws when working on synths / tape decks / amps etc. I don't remember ever having a problem with Wiha or other European precision drivers.
So I decided to test my assortment of #1 and #0 precision drivers on the screws in the transport of a 1990 Panasonic DAT and the case of a 2020 Mitutoyo. Every driver worked well in this limited test.
PB Swiss are my "go to" precision drivers these days. Perhaps one day Vessel will produce something that I find as comfortable and functional.
The following tool is being discussed in another thread but felt that it should be mentioned here. 
With that being stated, has anyone here on the forum has actually used this particular tool from Koken #154M?
If so how did you use it and for what purpose?
It is known as a "Push Pull Ratchet" and comes in either 10, 12, 13 or 14mm 6 point socket and in in various reach lengths.
kokenusa.com
There is now a newer version offered of this same tool that Koken has come out with.
palmac.net
With that being stated, has anyone here on the forum has actually used this particular tool from Koken #154M?
If so how did you use it and for what purpose?
It is known as a "Push Pull Ratchet" and comes in either 10, 12, 13 or 14mm 6 point socket and in in various reach lengths.
Push and Pull Ratchet 10mm 6 point Length 297mm - Ko-ken USA
Wrench Size: 10mm Length: 297mm Type: 6 Point Push and Pull Ratchet Opening: 6pt Product Dimension (Refer Line Drawing Image): D Size: 20.1mm C Size: - Ko-ken USA
kokenusa.com
There is now a newer version offered of this same tool that Koken has come out with.
Ko-ken Push and Pull Ratchet 12mm 6 point Length 300mm - Palmac
Wrench Size: 12mm Length: 200mm Type: 6 Point Push and Pull Ratchet Opening: 6pt - Palmac Tools
palmac.net