Where to "adapt" generator cord

[Ramper]

I have a 7500watt generator with a L14-30 receptacle. I have a power inlet (connected to the main feed) with a CS6364 (also SS2-50) plug. I want to "but once, cry once" in terms of a power cord. I understand that my generator only produces 30amps, but I want to be ready in case I ever do get a 50amp. I am thinking 6-3 with a 8-1 ground. Should I make the cord with the proper ends (can not seem to buy one as once the L14-30 goes on it seems as if the cord is 10AWG) or use some sort of adaptor.
Adapt at the generator: L14-30P to 14-50R - then the cord would be 14-50P to CS6364
Adapt at the input: L14-30 to ?? cord then ?? to CS6364 adaptor.

I have the 6-3/8-1 cord (30 feet) with a 14-50 end and I also have 10-4 cord with no ends.

THANKS

 

[mike93lx]

Buy the right power inlet for $50. If you ever go 50a (you very likely won't), swap the inlet for the right one then.

A #6 cord a pain in the *** to use

 

[Noltz]

Adapt your 6ga cord. Put a 14-30P end on the generator side and the CS6364 on the other.

As for buy once and cry once I have a 12k/9k running generator and let me tell you it's loud. If 30A is enough to keep you safe and comfortable you're best to stick with it. Initially I used a 25' cord but I bought a 100' 30A cord (yep, 10AWG) to keep that big loud generator in it's sound-insulated shed.

 

[Ramper]

We live out in the country on a "hobby" farm. The inlet is over by the shop. No neighbors to bother and far enough from the house that it should be OK. I only want to be ready for a larger generator if I happen upon one at auction cheap. The current one was under $200 and just needed a carb cleaning.

 

[Walkers]

If you really want to buy once, cry once, and do it properly, then you want to put in a sub panel and a transfer switch. Yes it is more expensive, and a bit of a pain in the ***, but it is the right way to do it. Looks like they can be had for a few hundred buck on the Bay as a kit.


Also, FWIW, when my power was out in the middle of the summer, and was going to be out for an extended period, I made a widowmaker cord and plugged it into a 6-50 outlet I had put on the bottom of my panel. I just turned off my main breaker.

 

[mike93lx]

If you really want to buy once, cry once, and do it properly, then you want to put in a sub panel and a transfer switch. Yes it is more expensive, and a bit of a pain in the ***, but it is the right way to do it.

Why is that the "right way"? There is nothing wrong with an interlock and it's way more convenient than picking a few circuits to run

 

[Walkers]

Why is that the "right way"? There is nothing wrong with an interlock and it's way more convenient than picking a few circuits to run

I am no expert, but I haven’t seen any code compliance on an interlock or backfeeds. I don’t think breakers are rated for backfeeds. The breaker you put in is also likely to be rated for the max starting load of the generator so that you can actually start your A/C unit. This makes it easy to brown out your house by turning on one too many light bulbs causing your generator to run at its max starting load. Also, the main breakers are not supposed to be used as switches. All of these things are picky, I know, but when the SHTF and the insurance guy is looking for something to blame to not pay for your burned down house, then they become important.

 

[mike93lx]

I am no expert, but I haven’t seen any code compliance on an interlock or backfeeds. I don’t think breakers are rated for backfeeds. The breaker you put in is also likely to be rated for the max starting load of the generator so that you can actually start your A/C unit. This makes it easy to brown out your house by turning on one too many light bulbs causing your generator to run at its max starting load. Also, the main breakers are not supposed to be used as switches. All of these things are picky, I know, but when the SHTF and the insurance guy is looking for something to blame to not pay for your burned down house, then they become important.

Interlocks are just fine and breakers work as a backfeed just fine. You don't have to be comfortable with it, but they are absolutely acceptable and not anything hackish.

NEC chapter 7 , articles 701 and 702

 

[Walkers]

Interlocks are just fine and breakers work as a backfeed just fine. You don't have to be comfortable with it, but they are absolutely acceptable and not anything hackish.

NEC chapter 7 , articles 701 and 702

Since the OP did not mention any interlock that is an assumption, unless I missed something. Also, not many people carry around a current NEC code book, and finding the proper section online isn’t easy. Yes those section do deal with standby power, but to what subsections, specifically , are you referring?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I am no expert, but I haven’t seen any code compliance on an interlock or backfeeds. I don’t think breakers are rated for backfeeds. The breaker you put in is also likely to be rated for the max starting load of the generator so that you can actually start your A/C unit. This makes it easy to brown out your house by turning on one too many light bulbs causing your generator to run at its max starting load. Also, the main breakers are not supposed to be used as switches. All of these things are picky, I know, but when the SHTF and the insurance guy is looking for something to blame to not pay for your burned down house, then they become important.

umm what on earth are you talking about?

where are you getting this info from?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If you really want to buy once, cry once, and do it properly, then you want to put in a sub panel and a transfer switch. Yes it is more expensive, and a bit of a pain in the ***, but it is the right way to do it. Looks like they can be had for a few hundred buck on the Bay as a kit.


Also, FWIW, when my power was out in the middle of the summer, and was going to be out for an extended period, I made a widowmaker cord and plugged it into a 6-50 outlet I had put on the bottom of my panel. I just turned off my main breaker.

umm what? you talk about doing things the right way then proceed to explain how you made a widowmaker cord and didnt isolate your feed to the grid with a positive lockout. contradiction much?

 

[mike93lx]

Since the OP did not mention any interlock that is an assumption, unless I missed something. Also, not many people carry around a current NEC code book, and finding the proper section online isn’t easy. Yes those section do deal with standby power, but to what subsections, specifically , are you referring?

Do your own research. Even the smallest amount of effort would get you answers if you cared

 

[Walkers]

umm what? you talk about doing things the right way then proceed to explain how you made a widowmaker cord and didnt isolate your feed to the grid with a positive lockout. contradiction much?

I didn’t say that I did it the right way! It is not something that is generally problematic for me here. In the 20 years I have been here I did it once. We have two other houses to go to, but the power was out at those too.

 

[Walkers]

Do your own research. Even the smallest amount of effort would get you answers if you cared

I did, but the NEC is not available without buying it. What that tells me is that you don’t know either, so stop spouting code unless you can back it up. I have not seen an interlock that is U L approved, so I doubt they are code compliant either.

umm what on earth are you talking about?

where are you getting this info from?

I would be thrilled if anyone could show me anything in the NEC that approves back feeding breakers or panels. Really. It would make me happy to admit I was wrong, but I have found nothing tangible that says that.

 

[mike93lx]

I did, but the NEC is not available without buying it. What that tells me is that you don’t know either, so stop spouting code unless you can back it up. I have not seen an interlock that is U L approved, so I doubt they are code compliant either.

I would be thrilled if anyone could show me anything in the NEC that approves back feeding breakers. Really. It would make me happy to admit I was wrong, but I have found nothing tangible that says that.

The suicide cord guys busts balls about code citations. Nice.

Moving on

 

[Walkers]

The suicide cord guys busts balls about code citations. Nice.

Moving on

Kind of what I thought, you don’t know either.

In the end we all do whatever we decide to do. I told you what I did and that it was not the right way (and I prefer the term widowmaker cord), but the OP was asking for the right way. I gave my opinion of the right way, which is verifiable as the right way in the NEC section 701 under standby power, but you guys are saying that I am wrong, but won’t give any back up.

 

[nadogail]

As for the NEC Code being only available to those who purchase the book; have you considered your library?

 

[mike93lx]

As for the NEC Code being only available to those who purchase the book; have you considered your library?

Way too hard. It needs to be handed to him

 

[CJCar]

As for the NEC Code being only available to those who purchase the book; have you considered your library?

Way too hard. It needs to be handed to him

I'll hand it to him: https://www.nfpa.org/NEC/About-the-NEC/Free-online-access-to-the-NEC-and-other-electrical-standards

UL Listed interlock: https://interlockkit.com/

"The Kits are designed, manufactured, and tested by Wyle Labs are to meet the National Electrical Code and the National Fire Protection Code. Wyle Labs is a nationally recognized testing laboratory that tests to UL and other standards."

"Meets NEC Code 702.4 regarding installation and operation of optional standby systems."

One of the best use cases for interlock/back feed over a sub/transfer panel is if you have multiple buildings. We have an interlock on the main panel in the house, which feeds a detached garage/apartment, barn, chicken coop, shed, future green house. I can selectively direct power to where it's needed.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I didn’t say that I did it the right way! It is not something that is generally problematic for me here. In the 20 years I have been here I did it once. We have two other houses to go to, but the power was out at those too.

never said you did. you told someone to do it the right way then described how you did something the wrong way. thats called a contradiction and hypocrisy

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I did, but the NEC is not available without buying it. What that tells me is that you don’t know either, so stop spouting code unless you can back it up. I have not seen an interlock that is U L approved, so I doubt they are code compliant either.

this is absolutely totally FALSE. you can signup for a free account on NFPA and access all code books they have FOR FREE!!

Also, U/L does NOT approve anything. they list. and code doesnt require U/L listings. it requires listing by an NRTL, and U/L is one out of many NRTLs available for testing and listing. you clearly dont understand how any of this works.

I would be thrilled if anyone could show me anything in the NEC that approves back feeding breakers or panels. Really. It would make me happy to admit I was wrong, but I have found nothing tangible that says that.

Have you never seen a backfed main in a subpanel with a hold down kit? they exist and code allows it....

here ya go. yes you are wrong

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Siemens-Backfed-Main-Breaker-Hold-Down-Kit-For-PN-SN-PL-ES-and-Ultimate-Load-Centers/5012957069

 

[wyliesdiesels]

As for the NEC Code being only available to those who purchase the book; have you considered your library?

another option but not necessary as its available for free on NFPA's site

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I'll hand it to him: https://www.nfpa.org/NEC/About-the-NEC/Free-online-access-to-the-NEC-and-other-electrical-standards

UL Listed interlock: https://interlockkit.com/

"The Kits are designed, manufactured, and tested by Wyle Labs are to meet the National Electrical Code and the National Fire Protection Code. Wyle Labs is a nationally recognized testing laboratory that tests to UL and other standards."

"Meets NEC Code 702.4 regarding installation and operation of optional standby systems."

One of the best use cases for interlock/back feed over a sub/transfer panel is if you have multiple buildings. We have an interlock on the main panel in the house, which feeds a detached garage/apartment, barn, chicken coop, shed, future green house. I can selectively direct power to where it's needed.

wonder if he will come back and admit he was wrong on so many points?

 

[pattenp]

I was reading through the post and l got to Walkers comments and thought, oh boy the wrath is coming.

 

[Walkers]

As for the NEC Code being only available to those who purchase the book; have you considered your library?

I haven’t been to a library in decades, none anywhere near me, and I am not spending fiddy bucks on fuel to drive downtown for something that is not near and dear to my heart. If someone wants to spout code but not actually back it up with something I can go look up it is no skin off my nose. If he had been more specific with a subsection then it would be something searchable, but just giving a section number is like saying it’s in the library. Useless.

 

[Walkers]

Way too hard. It needs to be handed to him

Doesn’t need to be handed, but you apparently don’t know either.

 

[mike93lx]

Doesn’t need to be handed, but you apparently don’t know either.

I do. Just don't care enough to help you.

 

[mike93lx]

this is absolutely totally FALSE. you can signup for a free account on NFPA and access all code books they have FOR FREE!!

Also, U/L does NOT approve anything. they list. and code doesnt require U/L listings. it requires listing by an NRTL, and U/L is one out of many NRTLs available for testing and listing. you clearly dont understand how any of this works.

Have you never seen a backfed main in a subpanel with a hold down kit? they exist and code allows it....

here ya go. yes you are wrong

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Siemens-Backfed-Main-Breaker-Hold-Down-Kit-For-PN-SN-PL-ES-and-Ultimate-Load-Centers/5012957069

No code citations. You are just making stuff up. What do you know anyway?

 

[Walkers]

I'll hand it to him: https://www.nfpa.org/NEC/About-the-NEC/Free-online-access-to-the-NEC-and-other-electrical-standards

UL Listed interlock: https://interlockkit.com/

"The Kits are designed, manufactured, and tested by Wyle Labs are to meet the National Electrical Code and the National Fire Protection Code. Wyle Labs is a nationally recognized testing laboratory that tests to UL and other standards."

"Meets NEC Code 702.4 regarding installation and operation of optional standby systems."

One of the best use cases for interlock/back feed over a sub/transfer panel is if you have multiple buildings. We have an interlock on the main panel in the house, which feeds a detached garage/apartment, barn, chicken coop, shed, future green house. I can selectively direct power to where it's needed.

I was not able to find and download a copy of the NEC from that site. Literally thousands of downloads available, but I wasn’t able to actually find a downloadable NEC.

The interlock has some pretty interesting language, and they say it meet NEC 702.4, but it is not actually UL listed, it is approved for use on UL panels. Not really sure what that means…

 

[Walkers]

I do. Just don't care enough to help you.

Whatever helps you sleep at night pal.

 

[Walkers]

never said you did. you told someone to do it the right way then described how you did something the wrong way. thats called a contradiction and hypocrisy

I don’t think I contradicted myself. I gave my opinion on what what I thought was the right way to do it. Then I shared what I did in an emergency. I did call it a widowmaker cord, and never said it was the right way to do it.

 

[Walkers]

this is absolutely totally FALSE. you can signup for a free account on NFPA and access all code books they have FOR FREE!!

Also, U/L does NOT approve anything. they list. and code doesnt require U/L listings. it requires listing by an NRTL, and U/L is one out of many NRTLs available for testing and listing. you clearly dont understand how any of this works.

Have you never seen a backfed main in a subpanel with a hold down kit? they exist and code allows it....

here ya go. yes you are wrong

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Siemens-Backfed-Main-Breaker-Hold-Down-Kit-For-PN-SN-PL-ES-and-Ultimate-Load-Centers/5012957069

I was not able to access the free NEC. I did finally find the explore the NEC after opening an account, maybe when I have some free time I can explore deeper.

UL approved vs listed, that’s just grammer nazi $#it there.

Backfed hold down kit, no, I haven’t seen one, and am not exactly sure what it is for, looks like maybe a breaker lock out for lock out tag out procedures while the panel is backfed for testing? Again, not sure. The existence of this device does necessarily prove that it is okay to backfeed breaker for normal operation. This is also not a device that is being used.


The most convincing evidence is the link to only one product that is claiming to have approval, not UL listing though. I haven’t found any sort of approval on any of the ones I found in an earlier search. While my search was certainly not exhaustive, I did look at several. I did look at several breaker listings and found that some are being allowed to be used as switches, but only 10-15 amp single pole, no double pole to be used as switches. So when you are using the breaker to use the lockout device, then switching to you generator power is this using a breaker as a switch? I found no rating or testing for them being used backward.

 

[Walkers]

I did find some information (no thanks to anything you guy supplied) regarding backfeed in 705.12(D). I have not looked at any breaker to see how they are normally marked so my opinion on this is still up in the air.

 

[Walkers]

Interlocks are just fine and breakers work as a backfeed just fine. You don't have to be comfortable with it, but they are absolutely acceptable and not anything hackish.

NEC chapter 7 , articles 701 and 702

There is virtually nothing in sections 701 and 702 regarding portable generator connections. 701 is for legally required standby systems, so hospital emergency power, commercial illumination, that sort of thing, virtually no mention or application to portable generator connection. 702.5A exception is about the only portion that deals with portable generators. It does require either disconnecting the supply conductors or a lockable disconnect. Therefor the interlock connectors are questionable because there is no lock. The definition of a lockable disconnect may be up for question, but I would say something like a padlock would be needed. I have attached the appropriate page.
Only one other mention in the section regarding portable generators about a disconnect not being required for ungrounded connectors through a wall.

 

[Walkers]

I'll hand it to him: https://www.nfpa.org/NEC/About-the-NEC/Free-online-access-to-the-NEC-and-other-electrical-standards

UL Listed interlock: https://interlockkit.com/

"The Kits are designed, manufactured, and tested by Wyle Labs are to meet the National Electrical Code and the National Fire Protection Code. Wyle Labs is a nationally recognized testing laboratory that tests to UL and other standards."

"Meets NEC Code 702.4 regarding installation and operation of optional standby systems."

One of the best use cases for interlock/back feed over a sub/transfer panel is if you have multiple buildings. We have an interlock on the main panel in the house, which feeds a detached garage/apartment, barn, chicken coop, shed, future green house. I can selectively direct power to where it's needed.

BTW, thanks for the link. Gee, I don’t know why I didn’t think to look on a Fire Protection web site for the electrical code book. It did come in handy, but I wouldn’t call it a gimme.

 

[Walkers]

Interlocks are just fine and breakers work as a backfeed just fine. You don't have to be comfortable with it, but they are absolutely acceptable and not anything hackish.

NEC chapter 7 , articles 701 and 702

Also, the breaker backfeed is in section 705, not 702 and 702, where they are talking about interconnected power production sources for your future reference, and it is not just a use any breaker free for all, there are limitations and the breakers have to be rated for it.

 

[Walkers]

I think I have beat that dead horse to a second death!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I was not able to access the free NEC. I did finally find the explore the NEC after opening an account, maybe when I have some free time I can explore deeper.

I access it just fine. not sure what youre issue is but it works fine for everyone else. if what you really mean is youre trying to download it, then that wont happen for free.

UL approved vs listed, that’s just grammer nazi $#it there.

nope its not. there is a distinct difference here. you obviously dont have a clue if you think its grammar nazi ****... lmfao that doesnt even make sense..

Backfed hold down kit, no, I haven’t seen one, and am not exactly sure what it is for, looks like maybe a breaker lock out for lock out tag out procedures while the panel is backfed for testing? Again, not sure. The existence of this device does necessarily prove that it is okay to backfeed breaker for normal operation. This is also not a device that is being used.


The most convincing evidence is the link to only one product that is claiming to have approval, not UL listing though. I haven’t found any sort of approval on any of the ones I found in an earlier search. While my search was certainly not exhaustive, I did look at several. I did look at several breaker listings and found that some are being allowed to be used as switches, but only 10-15 amp single pole, no double pole to be used as switches. So when you are using the breaker to use the lockout device, then switching to you generator power is this using a breaker as a switch? I found no rating or testing for them being used backward.

smh did you even open the link i sent you?

has nothing to do with lock-out tag-out. how could you even do a LOTO with that piece of plastic? smh its for holding the breaker down in the panel so it doesnt come off the buss bars while its live. it is for a backfed main breaker typically used in a subpanel that does not come with a factory main breaker. yes BACKFED. has nothing to do with testing, it is for normal operation.... and it proves that breakers can be backfed unlike your claim....

i suspect youre purposely being obtuse here to get out of admitting you were wrong and have no clue what youre talking about

 

[Walkers]

I access it just fine. not sure what youre issue is but it works fine for everyone else. if what you really mean is youre trying to download it, then that wont happen for free

smh did you even open the link i sent you?

has nothing to do with lock-out tag-out. how could you even do a LOTO with that piece of plastic? smh its for holding the breaker down in the panel so it doesnt come off the buss bars while its live. it is for a backfed main breaker typically used in a subpanel that does not come with a factory main breaker. yes BACKFED. has nothing to do with testing, it is for normal operation.... and it proves that breakers can be backfed unlike your claim....

i suspect youre purposely being obtuse here to get out of admitting you were wrong and have no clue what youre talking about

I did manage to access it, you might have noticed the pages cited that I posted pics of.

I did open the link. As said, no I have never seen nor used that product. You are saying it is to hold the breaker down to the sun panel while in use so it doesn’t come off? I have never seen a breaker fly off. I just looked it up and it is so you don’t remove he breaker and end up holding live power, makes more sense now.
Apparently you did not read the post on section 705 of the NEC where it discusses backfed breakers. And yes, I was wrong, and also you were wrong, and also we were both wrong/right. Breakers can be backfed, or they cannot be backfed, or they cannot be backfed unless rated, you might familiarize yourself with section 705.12[D). It is posted above.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I did manage to access it, you might have noticed the pages cited that I posted pics of.

I did open the link. As said, no I have never seen nor used that product. You are saying it is to hold the breaker down to the sun panel while in use so it doesn’t come off? I have never seen a breaker fly off.

i have never seen a breaker "fly off" either. never said i did. I have seen them pop-off when taking the dead front off though....

I just looked it up and it is so you don’t remove he breaker and end up holding live power, makes more sense now.

nope that doesnt make any sense. youre implying the hold down kit shuts the upstream feeding breaker off to prevent the backfed breaker from being live while someone holds it...

having a hold down kit doesnt prevent someone from removing the breaker while its live. they could still remove the hold down kit, before shutting off the feeding breaker in the upstream panel, and hold it, while its live in their hand. the only way to prevent it from being live is by shutting off the feeding breaker in the upstream panel.... the hold down kit doesnt shut off the power before the breaker is removed.... so your comment doesnt make any sense. not sure if youre even paying attention here.

Apparently you did not read the post on section 705 of the NEC where it discusses backfed breakers. And yes, I was wrong, and also you were wrong, and also we were both wrong/right. Breakers can be backfed, or they cannot be backfed, or they cannot be backfed unless rated, you might familiarize yourself with section 705.12[D). It is posted above.

Ive never seen a breaker that wasnt rated for backfeeding nor a breaker that was rated for backfeeding. furthermore ive never seen a designation on breakers indicating they are rated for backfeeding.

Can you tell me how to identify these so called backfed rated breakers on the store shelf? (literally theres no special model # or separate model # for backfed rated breakers.)

how much field experience do you have?