Under Deck Feeder to Detached Structure

[stripedbass]

I am using a new electrician and he is running a feeder providing 60amps to a new detached structure. When I trenched the conduit we went from the structure to an attached deck at the main house (4' above ground). I was expecting the electrician to continue the conduit under the deck, but instead he is planning to run the feeder from the underground conduit to a box, then along the joist into the house, through the rim joist. He claimed the deck is considered protected space by code and does not need a conduit. This does not sound like the correct approack to me, for multiple reasons. First being damage from critters and the second it is not a sealed crawl space, etc. it is a deck where water drips through, etc. Any thoughts from those that know more about electrical code than me? Will this also require a splice at the box, can the same exposed feeder be placed in conduit? I am think this should be 100% run through conduit, but wondering if I am overthinking it.

 

[ycgoat]

You are paying the bill if you are OK paying for more conduit, by all means have him do it your way. I agree under the deck is protected from physical damage, but I would make sure the cable is rated fir wet locations.
The code is the minimum not necessarily the best

 

[stripedbass]

ycgoat, Thanks for the reply and sharing your view. I am going to have him run conduit.

 

[PCustoms]

So I have a similar situation (that I've been putting off).

My plan is to trench to the corner of the house, run the conduit up then LB to turn horizontal under the deck for 40' before another LB into the house.

 

[Terry D]

I personally would keep it all in conduit with the THWN conductors and once it got in the house, possibly transition over to a #6 NM-b depending on your situation. What kind of cable does he want to use exposed? A UF cable would be code complaint. Cant use a NM-b ( Romex ) cable

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I am using a new electrician and he is running a feeder providing 60amps to a new detached structure. When I trenched the conduit we went from the structure to an attached deck at the main house (4' above ground). I was expecting the electrician to continue the conduit under the deck, but instead he is planning to run the feeder from the underground conduit to a box, then along the joist into the house, through the rim joist. He claimed the deck is considered protected space by code and does not need a conduit. This does not sound like the correct approach to me, for multiple reasons. First being damage from critters and the second it is not a sealed crawl space, etc. it is a deck where water drips through, etc. Any thoughts from those that know more about electrical code than me? Will this also require a splice at the box, can the same exposed feeder be placed in conduit? I am think this should be 100% run through conduit, but wondering if I am overthinking it.

well we need to back up here. you didnt tell us what kind of wire is being ran.

if its individual conductors with no outer jacket, then code requires it to be ran in conduit. doesnt matter if its under a deck, inside the house, in the walls, etc. individual conductors cant just be ran "free air" like you see on the power poles. there is no such thing as "protected space" (whatever that means) when it comes to individual conductors...

I'd say it's time to get a new electrician if he doesnt know this basic principle...

tell us what kind of wire it is then we can discuss transitions when it enters the house

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

Conduit all the way into the house (with THWN conductors) then make your transition inside the house to cable OR you can run conduit all the way to the panel.
BTW! Your house, Your money, Your specs as long it is per NEC code.

TIP! Bring the conduit up and out of the ground (Above grade level) then LB into a box or LB on the outside of the house……. Then run inside.
This way water won’t find its way into the basement, unless the ground water in your area runs uphill.

 

[stripedbass]

Thank you for the replies and I will get more info, I am meeting the electrician at 8 AM today and will find out what kind of wire he had planned, and post the response. There will be 3 conduit runs. The 60 AMP feeder from my main panel to the detached structure, a feed from a 17KW Cummins generator that will be placed next to the detached structure to a new transfer switch next to the main panel and the DC and signal wires for the generator will be in the third.

Chuckster, thank you for the good tip, we did do that when we trenched and brought the conduit up 2 feet to an LB on both ends.

 

[stripedbass]

Met with the electrician this AM and he was going to run UF under the deck, I am going to move forward with the conduit approach. Thank you all for the input.

 

[mike93lx]

Good call. Putting the cost of the material aside, conduit is never a bad idea, and since you are going to have this for a while, the cost of the conduit will soon be forgotten.

Use conduit for everything!

 

[Two Pump Chump]

Is UF rated wire required when using conduit underground ? ie may I use interior rated romex if it is within conduit ? 2020 300 5b describes a "raceway" but does not mention conduit. -My 220/240v application is power from a residence to a water well with a 3/4 hp motor. thanks

 

[mike93lx]

Is UF rated wire required when using conduit underground ? ie may I use interior rated romex if it is within conduit ? 2020 300 5b describes a "raceway" but does not mention conduit. -My 220/240v application is power from a residence to a water well with a 3/4 hp motor. thanks

Romex is never allowed outdoors, regardless of conduit.

If you are running conduit, use THWN, not UF, although UF is fine, but it will **** to pull and use

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Is UF rated wire required when using conduit underground ? ie may I use interior rated romex if it is within conduit ? 2020 300 5b describes a "raceway" but does not mention conduit. -My 220/240v application is power from a residence to a water well with a 3/4 hp motor. thanks

You need to look at uses permitted for NM. NM is not permitted for use outdoors PERIOD. Conduit doesnt change that.

As said above, i would use THWN. Its much easier to pull

 

[Two Pump Chump]

My conduit is installed, buried 6 1/2 ft for frost depth. $$$$$ The location is out of state so I cant verify the exact wire description. But it does say "Indoor use, " on it. The well driller wanted to run UF and direct bury it. My neighbor said absolutley not, use conduit. But I am trying to verify if we purchased the wrong wire to meet permitted code install when we used the "indoor" wire in the conduit. My question is does the wire in conduit still have to be "UF" ?

None of the wire I have looked at anywhere is labeled THHN or THWN. Only Indoor or UF. #$#@!

I think The code states any install in a "raceway" has to be water resistant. Sorry for the ignorance of the industry and appreciate the help.

 

[mike93lx]

My conduit is installed, buried 6 1/2 ft for frost depth. $$$$$ The location is out of state so I cant verify the exact wire description. But it does say "Indoor use, " on it. The well driller wanted to run UF and direct bury it. My neighbor said absolutley not, use conduit. But I am trying to verify if we purchased the wrong wire to meet permitted code install when we used the "indoor" wire in the conduit. My question is does the wire in conduit still have to be "UF" ?

None of the wire I have looked at anywhere is labeled THHN or THWN. Only Indoor or UF. #$#@!

I think The code states any install in a "raceway" has to be water resistant. Sorry for the ignorance of the industry and appreciate the help.

No. Uf is a specific type of cable (3-4 conductors). It has a thick jacket to project it underground.

If the wire is labeled indoor, it seems pretty clear to me that using it outdoors wouldn't be OK. Conduit doesn't matter. NM-b (romex) is simply not OK outdoors. No way to change that

Since you have conduit, buy spools of THHN (it is basically guaranteed to also be labeled as THWN). It will be individual conductors

 

[pattenp]

THHN/THWN is a single wire coming on a spool. It is not a cable such as NM-b (Romex) or UF-b.

 

[Two Pump Chump]

Had a local electrician supply the THHN. After research, I purchased ribbon pull tape and lubericant. My neighbor and I ran it with little difficulty. 235 ft with 4, 90 deg bends. UF would have required a winch or some illegal drugs. Thanks for help.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Had a local electrician supply the THHN. After research, I purchased ribbon pull tape and lubericant. My neighbor and I ran it with little difficulty. 235 ft with 4, 90 deg bends. UF would have required a winch or some illegal drugs. Thanks for help.

hopefully it was dual rated THHN/THWN as THHN is not permitted in wet locations. but most THHN is dual rated...