Advice on shed permit

[TheOnly1]

So I built a shed for my dad as a surprise present while he is away on a trip and didn't think about any city restrictions until a day after I finished it with some friends, also forgot the ******* neighbor who lives nearby likes to report everyone around the neighborhood for the smallest things, 5 days later I find a note on my front door regarding a city code infraction.

Built it 140 square feet and city permits are needed for anything over 120 square feet.. Also placed it 2 feet closer to the 10 feet required setback which makes just moving it quite a pain, plus roofing restrictions etc.

Any loophole to get around the city restrictions? Heard that if it's considered a nonpermanent structure, then it wouldn't be under any restrictions. I built it on wooden posts on concrete, so guessing I would have to cut those and add concrete deck blocks or perhaps caster wheels to be considered a movable/nonpermanent structure? Not seeing any ordinance or information on my county's website about that, just a mention of city permits and setback limits needed for "Accessory buildings which are typically storage sheds and detached garages".

I realize I will have to call and get more info on that but wondering if anyone has been on a similar predicament..

Thanks!

 

[The Cobbler]

only your city can answer the questions. call them up, be polite & courteous , explain how & why you did what you did & that you realized you made a mistake. ask how you can resolve the issue amenably

 

[Half-fast eddie]

$10 to a dime says you have to, at a minimum, move it to 10 ft from the prop line and pay the permit fee. If you are lucky they will forgive the size infraction. You might have to apply for a variance, and for that they usually ask the neighbors for input, in which case you are screwed.

 

[ZRX61]

Mount a wheelbarrow wheel to one side of it & the handles to the other.... "It's non-permanent"

 

[jblnut]

As mentioned already be polite and play rather dumb and say you were doing something nice for your pops. Maybe just maybe you'll get someone on the phone that isn't a complete by the book a-hole and will work with you.

I've got LOTS of experience dealing with county/township stuff and being polite is the absolute most important. Those peeps are used to being yelled at for dumb stuff so if you're polite they'll already be in a better mood than normal.

 

[Half-fast eddie]

Maybe just maybe you'll get someone on the phone

Might be better to visit in person, with pictures and a sad, honest face.

 

[jblnut]

Might be better to visit in person, with pictures and a sad, honest face.

100% agree. Bring pictures or the shed, measurements and anything else you can think of to produce if needed. Do not offer pictures and such right away but being prepared and walking in with a folder with papers in it looks good.

 

[Half-fast eddie]

walking in with a folder with papers in it looks good.

Right, but don’t walk in with the appearance that you have thoroughly researched every snippet of codes and ordinances, and you’re there to argue semantics.

 

[BigE]

Usually, non-permanent just means it's not attached to the ground by anything other than gravity. Prefabbed sheds fit that description if they're built on skids (2 4x4's or 6x6's depending on shed size). In my area, they just need right of ways clear. If it's on skids, you can hook a truck to it and it's out of the way in no time.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Seems like all you need to do is pay the fee and move it 2 feet. Although I don't know what "roofing restrictions, etc." entails....so maybe more.

I can't imagine any situation where they allow you to ignore the setback.

Most people wait until at least their second post to call their Dad's neighbor an "*******". Be honest. You're not 100% sure he's the one who complained.

 

[luvtheheat]

I can't imagine any situation where they allow you to ignore the setback.

Depending on whose property the setback violation is affecting, you may be able to get the other owner to waive the setback requirement. That's an option where I live.

 

[TheOnly1]

Seems like all you need to do is pay the fee and move it 2 feet. Although I don't know what "roofing restrictions, etc." entails....so maybe more.

I can't imagine any situation where they allow you to ignore the setback.

Most people wait until at least their second post to call their Dad's neighbor an "*******". LOL.

I initially built it on cemented wooden posts and going to have to cut those off and figure out the base after moving it anyhow but it's doable, if that's all it took and paying for the permit then it wouldn't be a big deal.

However per regulations, If the structure it's greater than 120 feet they also have a requirement of the roof material and pitch having to match the main building(which it currently does not, it's a straight sloped corrugated metal roof, instead of the usual triangle shaped shingle roof... So roof would have to be redone.

All BS if you ask me, property owership is a joke in some towns.

Anyhow, I called today and said that if I have my shed on wheels, it technically wouldn't be an accesory building since it's not permanent and they just asked "why did I put it on wheels?" and "You can't do that" .. But when I asked for the code that says that I can't do that, I didn't get an answer and just got referred to a person that didn't answer the phone lol

 

[TheOnly1]

Depending on whose property the setback violation is affecting, you may be able to get the other owner to waive the setback requirement. That's an option where I live.

Perhaps, the shed is right behind the other neighbors that are very relaxed and keep to themselves so not sure they would mind, it's not even in front of the idiot who reported it.

 

[yeldogt]

We have had the 120sf rule for as long as I can remember .... Go over that and the requirements grow.

If you need a variance .... you need one. It's that simple ..... typically something called "not permanent" just does not need the foundation part of the equation and that's allowed for up to 120sf. That > 120sf puts you in a different code

 

[Innovate1]

The wheels is an interesting twist. I doubt that would fly but I suppose you could give it a try. Just put wheels sturdy enough move it the required distance for the setback.

How hard would it be to reduce the square footage to 120 sq ft? Maybe just leave the roof as it and let it overhang a bit more over the door. Maybe you could even leave the floor as is and just move one wall in. Does only enclosed space count for the 120 sq ft? If so you could just move the wall with the door and leave all the other walls full length to support the full size roof. Now your shed has a porch.

I agree going in person might be better. Say you didn't realize it needed a permit, you were doing it for your dad, and ask what your options are. Don't bring up wheels or say your neighbor is a jerk at least at first. Maybe they will have a little simpathy and give you some ideas.

 

[u2slow]

Procrastinate. With any luck, the neighbour and city will lose interest.

My bylaw officer was adamant I had to pay another $400 to keep my permit open. Joke was on him. I didn't have $5 at the time to spend on him or my shop - I built till I was broke! It's almost 8 years now and not a peep since.

 

[Half-fast eddie]

Does only enclosed space count for the 120 sq ft?

I think if the size was close enough that the difference was inside vs outside measurements, yo could get a pass. Sounds like he built 10x15 rather than 10x12.

 

[engineer2]

When I showed them my shed plans it was 12" over the max allowed height. Told them I needed enough roof slope to maintain the warranty on the shingles. They said "Oh, OK no problem, we can approve that."

 

[Innovate1]

I think if the size was close enough that the difference was inside vs outside measurements, yo could get a pass. Sounds like he built 10x15 rather than 10x12.

That wasn't my point. I was talking about moving one wall 3 feet and possibly leaving the floor, roof and other walls as is. So the overall footprint would still be 150 sq ft but the enclosed area would be 120.

 

[NDJ]

Around here they would say you are not in compliance, no exceptions, Fines start at $500 a day until you are in compliance and they are added to your property taxes so you'd better pay or you lose your house.

 

[Uncle murph]

Mount a wheelbarrow wheel to one side of it & the handles to the other.... "It's non-permanent"

You read my mind.

 

[Grant F]

My uncle had a friend who built a shed on railroad tracks and moved it back and forth occasionally. Apparently this worked for his township "permanent structure" rules. He also painted his house green because "green houses" were not subject to taxes. It actually went to court and he won. Township had to rewrite the ordinance.

 

[73fxe]

Years ago, the company I worked for built a 6-stall garage with permits. On finale inspection the Inspector said the building was 20' too big for the lot. We ended up moving one overhead door in 2' from the exterior end wall losing the 20'. Later the owner moved it back.

 

[sjvicker]

Anyhow, I called today and said that if I have my shed on wheels, it technically wouldn't be an accesory building since it's not permanent and they just asked "why did I put it on wheels?" and "You can't do that" .. But when I asked for the code that says that I can't do that, I didn't get an answer and just got referred to a person that didn't answer the phone lol

Seems like you're taking the aggressive approach vs the "I'm sorry I messed up, do you have any recommendations I can follow to bring this into compliance?" approach. Good luck and hopefully they dont remember you the next time you call.

My town has a 200sqft max size and setback requirements for "accessory structures". They also require more inspections, permits and are less business friendly than any city in the area. Even with all of those requirements, giving them a call, being nice and talking to someone it was easy to get a shed location approved over the phone and I was good to go.

I did find that nowhere in the paperwork limits the QTY of "accessory structures" and also they dont specify "shed" so my 12x16 patio cover with 2' eaves around it is all good.

 

[u2slow]

That wasn't my point. I was talking about moving one wall 3 feet and possibly leaving the floor, roof and other walls as is. So the overall footprint would still be 150 sq ft but the enclosed area would be 120.

That would work here too. Sizing is all about 'enclosed floor area'. No penalty for thick walls. Also, setbacks don't include eaves here.

Gotta read all that bylaw stuff exactly as it's printed.

 

[NDJ]

That would work here too. Sizing is all about 'enclosed floor area'. No penalty for thick walls. Also, setbacks don't include eaves here.

Gotta read all that bylaw stuff exactly as it's printed.

Ive read conflicting reports on that. Some cities measure the building by the outside finished wall dimensions. I could not find a clear definition of it in the city bylaws or BC building code. You in BC too ?

 

[u2slow]

Ive read conflicting reports on that. Some cities measure the building by the outside finished wall dimensions. I could not find a clear definition of it in the city bylaws or BC building code. You in BC too ?

Yes, BC.

Whatever bylaw portfolio pertinent to you will contain it's own wording and definitions. (Not a building code detail). What's not defined... thats where some of the loopholes lie. That's part of how I have a massive 40x50' building with only 753sqft enclosed.

 

[PoorUB]

Ive read conflicting reports on that. Some cities measure the building by the outside finished wall dimensions. I could not find a clear definition of it in the city bylaws or BC building code. You in BC too ?

Here the consider lot coverage, so outside dimensions. I would assume most juristictions would as you could build with 12" thick walls or 4" thick walls.

 

[macgee]

I think we may have lost the OP? But in my neck of the woods for sheds to be exempt from building permits it's calculated by gross floor area and does not exceed 120 square feet, the height does not exceed 12 feet, and the maximum roof projection does not exceed 24 inches.

Here's where it may also get complicated for the OP, of course it varies massively city to city but, if you installed any electrical, plumbing or mechanical equipment in the structure, then those could require separate permits. Setback from property line is a whole other variable in itself and varies greatly. Be sure to tell them, the shed is only to store your gardening tools

Only saying this to check what else could cause you problems when walking into your local city plan check/permit office. Best to get all your ducks in a row before hand to figure out what can bite you before walking in.

I also agree 100% about walking in and being extremely polite, well dressed, act interested and treat them as if they're Einstein, the best engineer in the world and a King all wrapped up as one and that they could do no wrong (bite your tongue). It ***** but it does go a very long way even after they give you grief. The same as would when getting pulled over by a policeman. That first meeting can be sweet & awesome or incredibly expensive & timely for you.
I use to get drawings stamped all the time (weekly) for commercial projects, I always called first, made an appointment and I can tell you every time I didn't do the above and walked out of their offices with red marks on my drawings and no permit; thankfully that only happened a couple of times. A very deep breadth, Humility and gratitude goes a long way; even if you don't want to.

Your shed doesn't sound too far off from maximums, they just may let you slide.