Fireball Tool Hardtail Vise - The Best Vise On The Market???

[bwringer]

I agree, Jason is killing it and is doing what we all would love to do if we had unlimited time and money. Basically, he gets paid to goof around in the shop coming up with products we all want to use.

I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall if he goes to a lawyer and says "OK, I'd like to make and sell giant, extremely high-speed belt sanders made with go-kart parts. What kind of waiver do we need?"

That thing scares the piss out of me. Although he is pretty clear that it actually works far better than he ever thought it would. The belt tracking setup was genius, and the tires seem to work incredibly well for driving the belt.

 

[Strouty]

Price increased to $1800 now. Wondering if they'll honor the $1500 original price for early pre-orders.


New URL for Pre-order

I went through my emails and it only shows that I paid $100 preorder, there is nothing about the final price or that $1,400 is due. They also say August or September now for delivery. I guess we will find out what happens after it happens.

Update, I got an email back from them:

I'm sorry for the delay on these vises, production has taken much longer than expected but we still intend on getting them out to our pre-order customers this year.

Your price for the Hardtail will remain at the previously listed $1,500. We unfortunately did have to raise the price but that new price only applies to new orders.

 

[dr_clyde]

Given the state of the world that seems reasonable.

 

[General Geoff]

I don't mind waiting a few more months for an absolute unit of a vise that will last generations. Better to do it right than rush production and cut corners.

 

[cvairwerks]

Latest email says October pre-orders will get delivery prior to the end of December. They are batch building them in sequence, based on order dates.

 

[m6z]

Nice looking vise and the price is reasonable (IMO) for the size and weight.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Have you guys seen the new web page for it?

USA = $3,800
Taiwan= $1,800

I did one of the early pre-orders for $1,500. At that time it was advertised as USA made. I presume Jason will honor that. At least I hope so. Anybody have any confirmation? I have not messaged him yet as I'm sure he has a million messages to go through daily....

6.5" - Hardtail High Pressure Vise

US Made Total Cost: $3,800 shipping included to contiguous US Taiwan Made Total Cost: $1,800 shipping included to contiguous US We set out to create the best heavy duty vise on the market and along the way we had a couple decisions to make on where and how to manufacture this vise. This vise has...

fireballtool.com

 

[dr_clyde]

I know they’ve started to ship pre-orders. Have not yet got the email for mine yet.

 

[slodat]

I recently emailed with their customer service. She said my vise would ship by end of August. I also recall it stating made in US. I wonder if there's anything to be said or done on that point though..

 

[scooby074]

Have you guys seen the new web page for it?

USA = $3,800
Taiwan= $1,800

I did one of the early pre-orders for $1,500. At that time it was advertised as USA made. I presume Jason will honor that. At least I hope so. Anybody have any confirmation? I have not messaged him yet as I'm sure he has a million messages to go through daily....

6.5" - Hardtail High Pressure Vise

US Made Total Cost: $3,800 shipping included to contiguous US Taiwan Made Total Cost: $1,800 shipping included to contiguous US We set out to create the best heavy duty vise on the market and along the way we had a couple decisions to make on where and how to manufacture this vise. This vise has...

fireballtool.com

Oh oh.

$2000 more for USA. I thought $1500 was a lot, even over the likes of Wilton, $3800 is nuts TBH.

 

[JradM]

Oh oh.

$2000 more for USA. I thought $1500 was a lot, even over the likes of Wilton, $3800 is nuts TBH.

The price difference is so large I'm wondering if he is making the USA ones himself. E.g. making it worthwhile to run his own (more labour intensive) machines if someone wants a USA unit.

 

[scooby074]

The price difference is so large I'm wondering if he is making the USA ones himself. E.g. making it worthwhile to run his own (more labour intensive) machines if someone wants a USA unit.

Its almost the "I dont wanna do this" price TBH. Jason seems like an honest guy and I think he'll honour all existing orders, but I think the new price reflects that he might not want to be in the USA made vise business and will be more than happy to sell you overseas made vises made to his design at a "more affordable" price.

Or maybe he lost his US foundry, and now has to use a more expensive one... Who knows. But the Made in USA version is now almost obscenely priced for what it is.

 

[American Locomotive]

That U.S. price is absolutely astronomical. You can get a complete NEW iron block 6.0 V8 engine for $4800 from GM directly. ...and those engines are U.S. made.

I get economies of scale, but a $3800 vise is obscene. There is also no way he planned to take a $2300 bath on those early vise orders. Something must have happened.

 

[Maui]

If you pre-ordered, are you going to be shipped a Taiwan made vise or a USA built vise?

 

[General Geoff]

If you pre-ordered, are you going to be shipped a Taiwan made vise or a USA built vise?

Guess we'll find out!

 

[F-22]

In my opinion, this vise is not as versatile as some traditional designs. Sure it's gigantic, massive and can clamp like a press... but the height between the guide and the jaws is small relative to its size. I'd say something like s Heuer is much more thought out - to be slender, offer you as much space around what you're working as possible, and yet being strong due to using forged steel.

But it's so cool I'd want it just as decoration. On the other hand, I think you could get a machine shop to make you a one off beefy 5-6 inch vise out of a solid block of steel (heck, some may even have big blocks of old worn out stamping press tool steel, otherwise just mild steel), with nice deep custom engravings and it should cost you less than this vise. Unless your really need the gigantic dimensions or clamping force... This vise isn't really all that useful for general needs.

 

[General Geoff]

I'd say something like s Heuer is much more thought out - to be slender, offer you as much space around what you're working as possible, and yet being strong due to using forged steel.

The Fireball Hardtail was extremely well thought out. It's also a completely different animal from even the largest Heuer vise. Jason put out a short video explaining exactly why the throat depth is what it is.

And make no mistake, a Heuer would not take 1/4 the torque that this thing is rated for, before permanently bending/deforming.

 

[F-22]

And make no mistake, a Heuer would not take 1/4 the torque that this thing is rated for, before permanently bending/deforming.

I don't doubt that, but what use does this have? A 25 ton press offering three times that clamping force costs ~400€.

It's good if anyone needs it, but I just cannot see a common use for such a monster vise. Hence there were very few vises as beefy as this one made throughout history.


That said, 16000 lbs it is rated for means ~7 metric tons. 1/4 is under 2 tons, so I'm sure most vises should handle that.

 

[Firebrick43]

That U.S. price is absolutely astronomical. You can get a complete NEW iron block 6.0 V8 engine for $4800 from GM directly. ...and those engines are U.S. made.

I get economies of scale, but a $3800 vise is obscene. There is also no way he planned to take a $2300 bath on those early vise orders. Something must have happened.

A Wilton 800S is 3800 dollars, that is until stock runs out as they don't make vices in the USA any more. The fireball is larger, straight enclosed just like the Wilton, but doesn't rely on the key way for twisting motion which is a plus. The fireball definitely surpasses the handles of the Wilton for style, fit, and finish.

 

[mike93lx]

On the other hand, I think you could get a machine shop to make you a one off beefy 5-6 inch vise out of a solid block of steel (heck, some may even have big blocks of old worn out stamping press tool steel, otherwise just mild steel), with nice deep custom engravings and it should cost you less than this vise

Now that's funny right there

 

[budget76]

i started a thread over on Irate4x4 about the vise, and a bunch of the guys wound up making their own after buying the plans from FBT. check out the last couple pages for some pics of REALLY nice ones

Fireball releases a giant vise - the Hardtail

how do you bake the powder coat? oven?

irate4x4.com

 

[shawhite]

A Wilton 800S is 3800 dollars, that is until stock runs out as they don't make vices in the USA any more. The fireball is larger, straight enclosed just like the Wilton, but doesn't rely on the key way for twisting motion which is a plus. The fireball definitely surpasses the handles of the Wilton for style, fit, and finish.

The Wilton machinist and combo vises are still made in the USA and readily available.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

i started a thread over on Irate4x4 about the vise, and a bunch of the guys wound up making their own after buying the plans from FBT. check out the last couple pages for some pics of REALLY nice ones

Fireball releases a giant vise - the Hardtail

how do you bake the powder coat? oven?

irate4x4.com

Super cool.... But those are two different vises/designs. Nothing wrong with it. Just want to make sure we're all on the same page.

 

[Firebrick43]

The Wilton machinist and combo vises are still made in the USA and readily available.

Sorry, I should have said they don't make that vice anymore, as in the 800S

 

[American Locomotive]

A Wilton 800S is 3800 dollars, that is until stock runs out as they don't make vices in the USA any more. The fireball is larger, straight enclosed just like the Wilton, but doesn't rely on the key way for twisting motion which is a plus. The fireball definitely surpasses the handles of the Wilton for style, fit, and finish.

I understand, but I don't think Wilton vises were priced well either. I saw a video of their factory once, and it was terrible. Very out of date, lots of and lots of manual work. You would see vises moving around in fixtures while the jaws were being machined (e.g., they're now scrap). It's no wonder why they charged what they did for their vises.

I thought ~$2000 would be a fair price for a U.S. made, cast iron vise the size of the Fireball Tool, made with modern manufacturing techniques. Look at something like the Orange Vise company. They're manufacturing machining of similar size and weight to the Fireball vise, out of solid blocks of cast iron, but for thousands less. Yes, a bench vise is not a machining vise so apples vs, oranges, but still. The Orange Vises are machining center vises, so they need to be extremely accurate and precise with precision ground surfaces and ways. The Fireball Vise (while undoubtedly a quality piece), is a crude sledgehammer in comparison. Making a vise out of a solid block of iron that you machine most of it away should be the expensive way to make a vise. Investment cast parts should be far more cost effective.

My theory is that their foundry partner just wasn't prepared or setup to really handle the type of castings needed, and they weren't able to get a good screw machine shop to make the leadscrew and handle components. They're probably way under water on the U.S. patterns and foundry time, and probably paying some small shop $175/hr to make the screws and handles at very low production runs.

Like I said, I'm sure it's an absolute beauty of a vise, just disappointed the price came in at what it did. They're probably going to be hurting on those pre-order vises if they stick with their "Made in the USA" promise.

 

[slodat]

This is the reply I got from Fireball Tool this morning when I asked about my preorder:

 

[speed bump]

In my opinion, this vise is not as versatile as some traditional designs. Sure it's gigantic, massive and can clamp like a press... but the height between the guide and the jaws is small relative to its size. I'd say something like s Heuer is much more thought out - to be slender, offer you as much space around what you're working as possible, and yet being strong due to using forged steel.

But it's so cool I'd want it just as decoration. On the other hand, I think you could get a machine shop to make you a one off beefy 5-6 inch vise out of a solid block of steel (heck, some may even have big blocks of old worn out stamping press tool steel, otherwise just mild steel), with nice deep custom engravings and it should cost you less than this vise. Unless your really need the gigantic dimensions or clamping force... This vise isn't really all that useful for general needs.

You haven't priced out steel or machining recently have you? There is $1500+ in materials and at least 10 hours of shop time in what you are talking about building. The fireball pricing doesn't really shock me, it's tough to get a US foundry to find capacity for a project right now and labor and power are expensive.

 

[shawhite]

I understand, but I don't think Wilton vises were priced well either. I saw a video of their factory once, and it was terrible. Very out of date, lots of and lots of manual work. You would see vises moving around in fixtures while the jaws were being machined (e.g., they're now scrap). It's no wonder why they charged what they did for their vises.

I thought ~$2000 would be a fair price for a U.S. made, cast iron vise the size of the Fireball Tool, made with modern manufacturing techniques. Look at something like the Orange Vise company. They're manufacturing machining of similar size and weight to the Fireball vise, out of solid blocks of cast iron, but for thousands less. Yes, a bench vise is not a machining vise so apples vs, oranges, but still. The Orange Vises are machining center vises, so they need to be extremely accurate and precise with precision ground surfaces and ways. The Fireball Vise (while undoubtedly a quality piece), is a crude sledgehammer in comparison. Making a vise out of a solid block of iron that you machine most of it away should be the expensive way to make a vise. Investment cast parts should be far more cost effective.

My theory is that their foundry partner just wasn't prepared or setup to really handle the type of castings needed, and they weren't able to get a good screw machine shop to make the leadscrew and handle components. They're probably way under water on the U.S. patterns and foundry time, and probably paying some small shop $175/hr to make the screws and handles at very low production runs.

Like I said, I'm sure it's an absolute beauty of a vise, just disappointed the price came in at what it did. They're probably going to be hurting on those pre-order vises if they stick with their "Made in the USA" promise.

Pretty sure you could crush the orange vise with the fireball tools vise

 

[General Geoff]

I must say, I am a bit disappointed with the bait & switch on CoO. I won't cancel my order because I still want the vise, but $3800 is just too rich for my home gamer blood. So I guess the biggest, baddest Taiwan special is destined for my reinforced work bench

 

[scooby074]

This is the reply I got from Fireball Tool this morning when I asked about my preorder:

I might be mis-remembering, but that seems to be the opposite of what I thought they announced.... USA with a cheaper Taiwan to follow?

 

[Mohawk Dave]

This is the reply I got from Fireball Tool this morning when I asked about my preorder:

There was nothing clear about the first pre-orders being Taiwan. Just look through our pages of this thread alone and everyone was under the impression they were USA made in Washington.

I feel like this is some ******** bait and switch.

 

[mike93lx]

I doubt there was any malice in it. But they did screw up on the communication

 

[American Locomotive]

I doubt there was any malice in it. But they did screw up on the communication

The "Spokane Washington" on the side of the vise, and nothing at all mentioning it being made in Taiwan on the site... Yeah...

Pretty sure you could crush the orange vise with the fireball tools vise

I'm talking about the Orange 3-axis CNC vise, not their bench vise.

 

[M635_Guy]

I doubt there was any malice in it. But they did screw up on the communication

Agree. Apparently some folks here need a hobby...

 

[slodat]

I don't have a particular hardon for made in USA like a lot of folks on here do. For example, I own a SawStop table saw. It's made in Taiwan and is far superior to any US offerings I've seen of late, not considering the safety feature. With that said, I am quite confident they originally advertised this as made in USA. The first post of this thread Dr. Clyde copy and pasted their ad text (I think) from the website, stating made in USA. Just leaves an unnecessary bad taste..

 

[Mr_B]

It sure does leave a bad taste, it was stated as USA
The copy of the email reply above ***** big time, sweet diddly was spoken of Taiwan production then a USA .
For initial cast prototype & small run doing the castings in a local foundry you already had some contact with would be far easier and less problematic than bouncing emails & online chat with a company in Taiwan .
For sure he had cost issue on this getting produced and now we truly seeing it and some unfavourable stretching of the facts .
One thing it done for me was make decision of buying a used 6-1/4" Desmond Stephen a simple decision .
If I bust this one then perhaps I come back for a 2k taiwan offering !
Not a major surprise as you will find a few taiwan sourced tools/design features he sells available under other brands on global market for less .

 

[Fierljeppen]

I'm really enjoying this thread, but not just for the obvious reasons.

As a vintage USA vise collector, I'm always searching for verifiable printed data to put together some sort of historical timeline on the vises and their company's history. This vise story is being written in real time, by many interesting and different points of view. I will definitely be following this thread as it evolves.

I wonder if Jason (Fireball Tool) is aware of this Garage Journal thread?

 

[dr_clyde]

I gotta say, I was very much under the impression the vises were made in USA. I feel somewhat cheated, and am pretty disappointed that’s the route they chose to go, especially after how it was advertised.

I still think it’s a good product at a price I’m willing to pay, but only at the pre-order pricing.

I’ll buy a NOS Wilton before I buy a 4k vise from fireball.

I’ll still buy the one I pre-ordered, but I’m NOT happy about the COO. That was quite a bit of the point, as far as I’m concerned.

 

[ez-duzit]

...I’m NOT happy about the COO...

Way better than China, though.

 

[slowtwitch73]

I don't have a particular hardon for made in USA like a lot of folks on here do.

The Fireball Hardon Vise is coming out next year.