Fixing the garage the right way?

[BRZ Pete]

Hi folks, I am here because of the "joys" of home ownership.
I have a 1969 built house. Like all house in my neighborhood the attached garage was added later on. There is a wrong way and a right way to add a garage.
Guess which way my garage was done. Any way before the garage was built there was a concrete patio where the garage stood the idiots later poured a couple more slabs next to the patio to form the "foundation" for the garage.
Well this "foundation" is very low to the ground so the water gets to be higher than the foundation when it rains and I have rotten sill plates? I think thats what they are called? Lumber that is part of the framework for drywall that is sitting on this "concrete slab".
So my foundation is too low and the wood framing is rotten.
How would one go about fixing this and how expensive is it?

 

[Shiftless]

If the rest of the structure is in good shape, you consider separating it from the house, lifting it up, building a reinforced concrete stem wall on a new footing and then lowering it back down. I’d guess that unless you can DIY most or all the work, that it would be more economical to demolish and build from scratch. If you go that route, you might be able to build back bigger. That’s what we all really want anyway, right?

So your garage is just framed up and sitting on thin concrete patio slabs?

 

[BRZ Pete]

Unfortunately the roof is all once piece now.

 

[Shiftless]

Are there any building inspections where you live?

What percentage of the mud sill and studs are ruined?

Is the garage finished inside? Or exposed rafters and wall studs?

Support the structure from inside, cut away the damaged framing, replace. Concrete blocks would be better than wood directly on the slab if you are up for doing the whole thing.

 

[BRZ Pete]

ill and studs are ruined?

Is the garage finished inside? Or exposed r

Would it be possible to just chip out all the old concrete including the concrete the garage is sitting on and having it re-poured so it sits higher?
Or your concrete blocks options is essentially the same solution?
Garage is finished on the inside so i dont know the extent of the damage.

 

[Prospecter]

If I wanted to go the inexpensive route, and take my time. . .

I would cut away the bottom 24-26" of sheetrock to be sure of the situation. Assuming maybe 12-16" of rot, I would support the rafters from the inside, cut away the rot on a 48" wide section at a time, and replace with 2 courses of cement block. Rinse and repeat on the next section. Then pour a reinforced slab (steel and mesh, tied together) inside the block. After the sills and floor are set, you can fix the sheathing and siding. All DIY, except maybe the actual pour of the floor, and probably won't trigger a permit/inspection. Not the best technical solution, but workable. Just me.

 

[BRZ Pete]

Considering the amount of things that were done the dumb way I am 100% cool with inspections.
The oxygen thief that owned this house before diced to put a wood burning stove in the basement and he added a stove to the side of my house. Now keep in mind this isnt Arizona this is swamp land western NY.
1.5" inches of concrete 12"x12" was poured directly on the back yard soil no rocks or any material to stabilize it just we dirt.

 

[BRZ Pete]

If I wanted to go the inexpensive route, and take my time. . .

I would cut away the bottom 24-26" of sheetrock to be sure of the situation. Assuming maybe 12-16" of rot, I would support the rafters from the inside, cut away the rot on a 48" wide section at a time, and replace with 2 courses of cement block. Rinse and repeat on the next section. Then pour a reinforced slab (steel and mesh, tied together) inside the block. After the sills and floor are set, you can fix the sheathing and siding. All DIY, except maybe the actual pour of the floor, and probably won't trigger a permit/inspection. Not the best technical solution, but workable. Just me.

Any idea how much would something like this cost? Really rough ballpark on the higher end since this is NY and we have heaving due to winter.

 

[Prospecter]

Kind of have to figure on a mushroom factor. (Job that looks small at the beginning, and expands as you travel upwards.) You can use the Home Depot or Lowes site to figure your costs. One nice thing about this approach is that you can cut out that lower level of sheetrock and know pretty much how much you'll need to do. If you are careful to cut at the 24" line, you'll be able to cut 4x8 sheets in half to replace it. Also, until you get to the slab pour, you can pretty much do this one section and one Saturday at a time. That will spread out your costs.

FWIW, I am in mid-coast Maine. My garage and shed are slabs. If your garage slab hasn't heaved, putting another 4" on top with wire and metal tied together shouldn't heave.

Not an exact answer to your cost question, but since you know the dimensions of your garage and the situation, you can figure it for yourself. You could also do your own estimate for materials based on what you think it is, and revise as you go. If you decide not to DIY, a contractor will give you a better estimate if that section of sheetrock is removed so he can see better what's going on.

 

[CraigStu]

I like Prospectors idea. My only question would be does the 24 inches of block weigh more than the 24 inches of stick wall it replaces. Would that cause a problem?

 

[Stuart in MN]

Can the yard around the garage be re-graded so water flows away from the garage?

To fix rotted sills and studs, my first thought would be to put in some sort of temporary support structure, saw off the bottom of the studs, install a row of concrete block, put a new sill on top of the block, and nail the fresh ends of the studs to it. It could be done in sections - say, add temporary studs to support a section six feet long or so, do the repairs and then move on to the next section.

 

[BRZ Pete]

Can the yard around the garage be re-graded so water flows away from the garage?

To fix rotted sills and studs, my first thought would be to put in some sort of temporary support structure, saw off the bottom of the studs, install a row of concrete block, put a new sill on top of the block, and nail the fresh ends of the studs to it. It could be done in sections - say, add temporary studs to support a section six feet long or so, do the repairs and then move on to the next section.

Pretty sure it can but there is still that whole problem of slab being lower than the soil around the garage.

 

[reader2580]

In New York state you probably need a full frost footing for an attached garage like we do here in Minnesota.

What I would do is build temporary walls or other supports inside the garage to support the roof. You can then remove some, or all, of the garage walls to have a proper frost footing installed. The foot wall should extend above the final grade by 6" to 8" to keep the wood away from contact with the ground. The final thing would be to have a new slab poured inside the footing walls once the temporary walls are removed. This won't be cheap, but it is the right way to fix things.

 

[Zeke]

If the existing slab is to remain (assuming you do some sort of the above recommended work), water proofing the exterior new work should keep you dry. You may not have mentioned why it's a good idea to keep the slab you have. You can always put more concrete over it.

 

[rayra]

Yeah tht's going to be terribly expensive, especially if you have to hire it out.

Looks like you are really screwed in W. NY, frost depth 50-60"

Frost Line Penetration Map In The U.S. - Hammerpedia

The frost line is simply the deepest point in the ground to which ground water will freeze.It’s also referred to as the frost depth. When water changes from liquid ... "Learn More..."

www.hammerpedia.com

To do it right will cost as much or even more than a whole new garage.

My first goal would be guttering and french drains and the like to move as much water away from the garage area as practicable. And then cutting a sump pit and sawcutting some radiating grooves to that pit. That's just for the coming winter.

Then comes the real challenge of just how you will choose (or afford) to remediate the problem.
That's a pretty serious issue. And one that should have been disclosed in a real estate deal, was it?
I'm not a fan of getting the govt and courts involved in anything, but you may have a legitimate grievance that might require their involvement. Because fixing it 'right' will likely cost well over $100k in NY.

 

[firebirdparts]

Any idea how much would something like this cost? Really rough ballpark on the higher end since this is NY and we have heaving due to winter.

Just google the cost of the blocks only and you'll see it's not much. 8" blocks are $2.38 here today. It doesn't take a whole lot of mortar. Feel free to estimate. You'll need a new bottom plate, also not much cost there. The exterior siding can stay but you decide if the condition is going to prevent you moving it around and still being able to put it back on.

The slab inside the garage is going to be very dependent on who you ask locally. Their workload.

 

[BRZ Pete]

Hey folks, I decided to do this the right and expensive way. Going to have a contractor fix it the expensive way since my garage foundation is a mix of a concrete patio from 1960s and additional slabs poured in the 1980s.
Ill have them do the driveway too while they are at it.

 

[reader2580]

I hope the right way includes a proper frost footing instead of using a slab as the foundation. You say your house has a basement so the garage needs full frost footings. A slab on grade garage could move around a bit in the winter while the house it is attached to will have minimal or no movement.

 

[Sumboodie]

Yeah tht's going to be terribly expensive, especially if you have to hire it out.

Looks like you are really screwed in W. NY, frost depth 50-60"

Frost Line Penetration Map In The U.S. - Hammerpedia

The frost line is simply the deepest point in the ground to which ground water will freeze.It’s also referred to as the frost depth. When water changes from liquid ... "Learn More..."

www.hammerpedia.com

How do you figure?
Frost depth here is 10 feet. We don't run footings that deep! maybe 3-4ft, depending on what it's holding up. Slab on grade, 18"

 

[Stuart in MN]

I hope the right way includes a proper frost footing instead of using a slab as the foundation. You say your house has a basement so the garage needs full frost footings. A slab on grade garage could move around a bit in the winter while the house it is attached to will have minimal or no movement.

The thing is, the garage is existing and has been attached to the house for some time (he mentioned the garage and house have a common roof.) I agree that if the house is on a foundation the garage should be as well, so they don't move independently of each other during freeze/thaw cycles, but this one has apparently survived.

 

[reader2580]

The thing is, the garage is existing and has been attached to the house for some time (he mentioned the garage and house have a common roof.) I agree that if the house is on a foundation the garage should be as well, so they don't move independently of each other during freeze/thaw cycles, but this one has apparently survived.

A slab may work just fine for him, but I wouldn't call that the right way. I bet if he submitted plans to his city to build a new house like this they would get rejected due to lack of frost footing for the attached garage.

 

[73fxe]

In Mich. if a garage is attached to a house it has to have a 40" footing. Unattached garage can have a floating footing.