Quick Question on mounting upper kitchen cabinets

[oldpops]

Hello all! Got another question on building/mounting upper kitchen cabinets. Can I use 1/2" thick nailing strips to hold the upper cabinets to the wall, instead of using 3/4" inch thick strips? For the back story on this question: In the back of our current builders grade kitchen cabinets, they have a 3/4" inch thick nailing strip from side-to-side, on the top, middle, and bottom of the cabinets (to hold the cabinets to the wall). Then there is a 1/4" back-board, which goes from the inside top of the cabinet(s) to the bottom of the cabinet to hide the nailing strips. In any event, this adds up to 1 inch of non-useable space, leaving only 11 inches of the 12 inch deep upper cabinet. One of the pet peeves my wife has is that she has some old family dinner plates, passed down from relatives long gone(so she will NOT part with them), and these plates are actually about 11-1/4" inches in diameter. As a result, we have the doors on 2 of our cabinets which don't close completely. In building the new cabinets I cut the upper cabinets 12 inch deep, without remembering the plate issue. If I had I could have just made the upper cabinets 12-1/4 inches deep. Now the only way I can think to fix the problem is to use only 1/2" inch thick nailing strips, instead of 3/4" inch thick nailing strips, to increase the usable space inside the cabinets to 11-1/4" inches. Has anyone ever done this? Is it safe to do this with upper cabinets? I can put in extra nailing strips in each cabinet if need-be, I just don't want the upper cabinets tearing themselves apart and/or pulling away from the wall (my wife has a ton of serving dishes, cups, plates, etc.) Thoughts? As always, thanks in advance to all who offer information and advice.

 

[jar944]

Use 1/2" backs (preferable imho) or put the nailer inside the cabinet space, in front of the 1/4" backs.

12" uppers are usually 11.25" of plywood and 3/4 faceframes (assuming you are building FF cabinets)

 

[oldpops]

Unfortunately the boss wanted frameless cabinets. I'm just wondering if it's OK to use 1/2' inch stringers/nailing strips instead of 3/4" inch nailing strips.

 

[Sumboodie]

The cabinets in my apartment are just held to the wall with a screw or two in each through the back 1/4" cardboard/luan. Somehow they haven't fallen down.
Reminds me to add that to the list.
I put some plates in one to get them out of the box while unpacking. I was at the point of doing a deranged sleep deprived and stressed out laugh while carried the whole works to the burn barrel if that **** fell off the wall.

 

[Bucko]

More to address the big plates rather than your question. We have some large plates that will not fit flat in a cabinet. I simply took some 3/4" oak about 12 inches wide and the depth of the cabinet and made "channels" with a dado blade and the plates can stand on end. Kinda like you will see in display cases at the rear for a single plate to stand up. Its been in use for about 15 years and 3 different kitchens and we have not lost a plate yet.

 

[Zeke]

As a some time cabinet maker I say yes. I would let the 1/4" back into the tops, sides and bottom flush using a router to make a dado if already assembled. Now you have 11 3/4" net inside. Put your nailing strip in front of the inside the cabinet and glue it as you install.

OK, you say the 'boss' doesn't want to see that strip. Then you have to put it behind the cabinet back and have 11 1/4 net. Just use good hardwood and glue it well and it will hold a lot of weight. 3/4 nailers are good because people overdrive screws and plug the holes. They are getting 1/2" of the wood as a tension support at best. There are ways to not bury the screws and have all the strength of the 1/2" nailer AND the backing.

A solid yes.

 

[oldpops]

Thanks everyone. I haven't hung upper cabinets before so I thought I would come here for some advice. My wife actually has a LOT of these plates (we could have 40 people come over and there would be a plate for them). So if I understand this correctly; I CAN use a 1/2" inch thick piece of wood to mount/screw the cabinets to the wall, and then cover with the 1/4" inch panel? ** But it would be best that the 1/2" nailing strip be a sold piece of wood, and NOT be a piece of plywood?? Or should I screw thought the 1/4" inch panel AND through the 1/2" panel?

 

[rayra]

I'm intrigued by the idea that your cabinets are backless and the thickness of the nailer has anything to do with the interior depth of your cabinet?
I made solid back upper cabs for my garage workshop and also bought some premade, which also had a closed back and both kinds are hung on the wall on a set of french cleats cut from 2x4s. With no impact on the interior space of the cabinets. So the question doesn't make sense to me.

/besides the whole idea of the issue predicated on precious heirloom plates and you talking about using a weaker piece to hang the cabinet.

/forest. trees. some assembly required.

 

[MikeC55]

About 20 years ago I put up frameless particle board cabinets in the kitchen (body 3/4" particle board, front real wood door) and the construction at the back was a slot, 1/2" from back edge, that the cabinet back melamine (1/8 -3/16") slid into from bottom of cabinet and then 1/2" particle board nailing strips behind that at top & bottom that were secured into the cabinet sides with dowel pins/glue. I thought that was pretty hokey and substituted oak for the particle board strips. At top of cabinet, I added a piece of 3/4" thick oak (x 3") doubler that bolted to the top panel of the cabinet. I then screwed the oak nailing strip through the back and into the doubler to reinforce the top mounting. These are 42" tall cabinets and they've held up fine with plenty of plates/glasses in them.

 

[jar944]

I'm intrigued by the idea that your cabinets are backless and the thickness of the nailer has anything to do with the interior depth of your cabinet?
I made solid back upper cabs for my garage workshop and also bought some premade, which also had a closed back and both kinds are hung on the wall on a set of french cleats cut from 2x4s. With no impact on the interior space of the cabinets. So the question doesn't make sense to me.

/besides the whole idea of the issue predicated on precious heirloom plates and you talking about using a weaker piece to hang the cabinet.

/forest. trees. some assembly required.

From the op's description they have 1/4" backs. Not that uncommon paired with 3/4" nailers. They are screwed to the wall through the 3/4" nailers as the support. So the assembly would go wall, the, 3/4" plywood nailer, the 1/4" cabinet back. For a net loss of 1" depth, or 3/4 with a 1/2" nailer.

1/2" backs would only loose 1/2" of depth.

 

[73project]

I'm thinking that the 1/2" nailers will be adequate. Screw all the adjoining cabinets together creating a solid bank in all of that row, and you should be able to load then up with whatever you like.

 

[oldpops]

Thanks. I have heard of French cleats as a remedy for this issue. I understand the principle behind French cleats but I am wondering if using them would extend the upper cabinets too fat out from the wall. ??? I have heard of the "easy-Hang" cabinet rail hanging system but I can't them for sale anywhere anymore. Does anyone here know if they are still in business? or if there is a similar cabinet rail system somewhere?

 

[ez-duzit]

...I understand the principle behind French cleats but I am wondering if using them would extend the upper cabinets too fat out from the wall...

Use the cleats.

 

[billconner]

Imteresting that other than Ikea, which has changed to 15" deep uppers, that 12" upper deep upper is still most common.

 

[jar944]

Imteresting that other than Ikea, which has changed to 15" deep uppers, that 12" upper deep upper is still most common.

It's just a holdover from the old days. The same with 24" bases. It's also slightly about cost as you can get 4 sides out of a 48" sheet. Once you go above that you might as well go to 15" as the material and labor will be relatively identical to a 12.5" cabinet.

Any custom shop will build anything you want, and they typically would suggest a 13-15" deep upper if you were getting inset cabinets (for the big plate issue described here)

I did 15" and 18" deep uppers for my kitchen and 13.5" uppers for my pantry. 17", 21.5 and 25" lowers. If it's custom make it work for the space.

 

[brownbagg]

i have seen people take a strip and cut a 45 on one side and screw that to wall at upper cabinet top elevation, and then do the same but opposite on back of cabinet, so once lifted the 45 will mesh and it hold the cabinet till you get some screws in the studs

 

[jar944]

i have seen people take a strip and cut a 45 on one side and screw that to wall at upper cabinet top elevation, and then do the same but opposite on back of cabinet, so once lifted the 45 will mesh and it hold the cabinet till you get some screws in the studs

That is a French cleat.

 

[Zeke]

Thanks. I have heard of French cleats as a remedy for this issue. I understand the principle behind French cleats but I am wondering if using them would extend the upper cabinets too fat out from the wall. ??? I have heard of the "easy-Hang" cabinet rail hanging system but I can't them for sale anywhere anymore. Does anyone here know if they are still in business? or if there is a similar cabinet rail system somewhere?

The metal interlocking strips are out there but you still have to leave room for the assembly which is going to eat into your 1/2" cavity behind the cabinet back if you go for the unseen nailer strip look. The only issue with such systems, and French cleats, is that it's hard to hang uppers against the ceiling if that's the plan. However much the cabinet drops while getting seated is how much crown molding you need. If you hadn't planned on 3 1/4" CM, now you are.

French cleats are a PITA unless the walls are dead nuts straight. Or you spend the time to shim them to perfection. Same goes for the metal ones.

 

[ez-duzit]

...
French cleats are a PITA unless the walls are dead nuts straight. Or you spend the time to shim them to perfection. Same goes for the metal ones.

This.

 

[Denwood]

I don't see an issue using the 1/2" nailing strips if you use plywood. If you're worried about weight, just make them taller.

The IKEA cabs I installed this year (two kitchens) are the 15" uppers, and just hang from a steel rail that you set up first. That system takes a bit of planning (nice to install nailing backers for that rail in your stud walls) but it makes hanging and aligning the uppers a breeze. It's just a metal clip at the top corners of each cabinet that hangs on the rail...and these cabs are as larger as 36" wide by 40" high. The metal hangar clip goes to the cabinet sides with 3 (stout) self-centring blunt head screws each,

Compare that to a single 1/2" nailer across the back of the cabinet at the top. You just need to make sure the attachment at the cabinet sides is secure as that is what is carrying the weight! Notched and it's super strong. Otherwise, glue and screw

 

[oldpops]

I don't see an issue using the 1/2" nailing strips if you use plywood. If you're worried about weight, just make them taller.

The IKEA cabs I installed this year (two kitchens) are the 15" uppers, and just hang from a steel rail that you set up first. That system takes a bit of planning (nice to install nailing backers for that rail in your stud walls) but it makes hanging and aligning the uppers a breeze. It's just a metal clip at the top corners of each cabinet that hangs on the rail...and these cabs are as larger as 36" wide by 40" high. The metal hangar clip goes to the cabinet sides with 3 (stout) self-centring blunt head screws each,

Compare that to a single 1/2" nailer across the back of the cabinet at the top. You just need to make sure the attachment at the cabinet sides is secure as that is what is carrying the weight! Notched and it's super strong. Otherwise, glue and screw

With the metal rail that you used, did you have to cut holes in the top/back on both sides of the upper cabinet for the hanging bracket? Any pictures?

 

[billconner]

I wish I knew how to search my photos posted here because I posted the exact picture. The back - thin hardboard - is supplied with the upper corners cut out so the stell bracket - mounted to side panel - is aligned. Wall cabinets hang on the rail. Base cabinets can hang on rail and front adjustable legs. I'll keep looking for photo here....

 

[billconner]

post 32 in this thread:

Tools to install upper kitchen cabinets by myself

I'm getting ready to install my upper kitchen cabinets. Unfortunately I don't have any help. So far my plan is to install a ledger board and use some cabinet jacks. My uppers are sitting at 54" (36" countertop + 18" backsplash). I found some cabinet jacks that go from 28" to 60". Pic...

www.garagejournal.com

And around 45:45 in this YouTube: