"S.R." Sockets? Can't seem to find any info.

[RagTopTA]

How do we get together and go about it.... So we can cover as many areas as possible...

 

[Oldtuleguy]

These are not the type of people that are online. I think late night TV is the way to reach them.

 

[RagTopTA]

Hahaha true!!! It would mainly be an effort to find a relative that could get a list of questions answered maybe...

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Maybe contact proto to see if they would fund a history research project..

 

[RagTopTA]

Good idea. A friend on FB was an Engineer for Proto when they were in Dallas and here at the local plant. He might have contacts or ideas.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

nice

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Pulled this out of a big bin of swivels yesterday. 3/8-inch drive. Cad plated.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here's a 5/8 socket

 

[Smokeshow69]

Pulled this out of a big bin of swivels yesterday. 3/8-inch drive. Cad plated.

Very nice condition, looks to be unused . The swivels and extensions seem to be the most difficult to find!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Looks to be unused.

Agreed. The only wear is to the cad finish. No burrs in the drive or the broaching.

The swivels and extensions seem to be the most difficult to find!

Agreed. Not that I'm ever looking for them, but of all the [S.R.] pierces I have run into, maybe only ten or so total, this is only the second or third swivel socket. RagTopTA has my first lot. I guess I'll have to start another pile!

 

[d42jeep]

Pulled this out of a big bin of swivels yesterday. 3/8-inch drive. Cad plated.

Are you collecting those? If not, could you set it aside for me?
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

No. Yes.

 

[DadsTools]

I saw this bumped thread, and the SR mystery is intriguing. It's not very often that something stumps the GJ band. For what it's worth, I'd like to share my thoughts on this. Because of my long career in sales and marketing (with a stint of selling hand tools of various brands), I tend to also focus on the branding and marketing, perhaps even more at times than on the artifacts themselves. My observations touch on some ideas that have been already suggested:

It seems clear that the S.R. is meant as a branding or trademark which identifies the product.

The periods indicate an abbreviation for proper nouns, in this case, initials. The tradition of presenting initials for the first and middle names of a proper name (of a person or place) delineated by periods goes back a very long time, and would be immediately comprehended as a naming convention by anyone. It's highly improbable that anyone would have expressed an abbreviation for common nouns like "service repair" in this manner.

When it comes to branding, the branding history of a company should also be considered, as it is part of its marketing strategy--a way of how they look at their marketing, if you will.

This is the main reason why I think it's very highly improbable that it stands for Sears Roebuck. It's long history of establishing and promoting distinct brand names and brand identities virtually eliminates the notion that it would ever have used plain initials as a brand--it's a complete opposite to their corporate mentality.

Take NBM. It had the 'None Better' brand, which was also a company slogan. They may have used the initials NB on their print logo, but I know of no NBM tools that were branded solely with the "NB" initials only, and certainly not separated by periods, which would have been reserved for proper nouns. "None Better" was the product of a corporate philosophy to establish marketplace branding that was memorable and distinct.

Walden Worchester is an example of the opposite. A search through AA photos shows very little effort by the company to invent creative and distinct branding logos. Almost all of them are presented as just plain fonts. This reflects its corporate marketing mentality (or lack thereof). We often find later product made under the Stevens Walden name with just plain SW or STW initials in unremarkable fonts with zero effort to design a distinct branding mark.

Because the tools appear to be made by Plomb/Proto, it has been suggested that S.R. may have been a budget Plomb branding to be sold to independent stores. But when you consider the history of Plomb branding--from the triangular "O" to the flying lady to the pebble wrenches to its plethora of different brand names--trademarks, logos and branding were at the very heart of Plomb/Ptoto/Pendleton corporate marketing strategy. For they to have created an "S.R." brand in house is almost as unthinkable as Harbor Freight creating an "HF" tool brand--to both, it would amount to corporate heresy. Plomb may have made these tools, but it's almost certain Plomb didn't devise the S.R. as one of its brands.

Same with Sturtevant. A look back at its historical logo and trademark shows a lot of thought and company pride went into its artistic design, even the one used in the later Richmond era. Here again, it's hard to imagine such a company using plain initial-only mark inside a rectangle as the means with which it would brand its products.

I also think Sinclair Refining is too much of a stretch. Even if the tools were made for internal facility use, there would have been no need to create a logo with a rectangular border--a simple SR would have been sufficient for any internal personnel to know what it was. In this case as well, Sinclair has a long history of distinct branding and trademark design, including one of the most recognizable brand marks, the 1930 Sinclair Dinosaur. Whether for internal or external consumption, I think it far more likely it would stamp its distinctive name style on the tool, or per5haps even just the dinosaur, which alone would identify the brand for almost every American. A plain S.R. in a rectangle? I don't think so.

So where does this leave us? Why can't we find a tool company with the initials SR? Imagine if we had no direct knowledge of Sears? Could we find a Dunlap Tool Mfg. company, or a JC Higgens Sporting Goods Mfg? Brands like Higgins, Dunlap and Craftsman were never companies--these brand names came into being ONLY as strategic devices of Sears white-collar corporate marketing.

We often focus on the artifacts and their markings. But in cases like Sears (or like Penncraft for one of many examples), we must also give equal weight to the marketing as a third element. The fact that these SR tools seem to be found in various regions indicates they were probably sold through some store chain, but not so big as to make the brand more common and recognized. Maybe they were sold strictly through jobbers to independent mom-&-pop retail stores. There were many hundreds of these kinds of small chains and independents in the middle part of the 20th century, the vast majority of which no longer exist. I suspect somewhere in that huge hardware graveyard is a private label that S.R. represented. Researching the old chains may provide the answer.

 

[3baygarage]

Good post Dads. Today I saw a deep well cheap at the flea but it was ugly, even for me.

 

[four.cycle]

We often find later product made under the Stevens Walden name with just plain SW or STW initials in unremarkable fonts with zero effort to design a distinct branding mark.

Stevens Walden used a very distinctive mark on some of their product for at least a little while:

1959 Stevens Walden catalog pp 9

 

[DadsTools]

Stevens Walden used a very distinctive mark on some of their product for at least a little while:

1959 Stevens Walden catalog pp 9

Yes, I know of this logo, which is the one brief hiccup in a long line of Walden branding apathy. I also knew that someone was going to post this to demonstrate they were able to find an exception to what I said. But it really doesn't negate what I was saying. I said we find very little effort on their part to make distinctive brand marks, and that we often find artifacts with just plain initials, which still holds true regardless to this lone, brief exception. And yes, just stamping your sockets with plain, indistinct initials indeed reflects zero effort to design a distinct branding mark for those tools.

At first, I thought you were just posting this as additional information. But when I noticed you quoted my single sentence, it appears as if you are presenting an argument to refute the point I was making (If I interpreted this wrong, please forgive me). But as mentioned above, it's only a valid counterpoint if what I wrote is misread. Nor is the point I was making weakened by this tiny exception to Walden's history-long tradition of paying little attention to its branding marks, especially when compared to many other manufacturers. It's like straining out the gnat and swallowing the camel. Isn't Walden a good example of the point I was making about gaining insights into a company's marketing mentality by looking at its branding marks on its tools? Or do you disagree?

 

[d42jeep]

I posted this picture contributed by Twertsy upthread but here it is again. The ratchet shape may provide clues to who the manufacturer was. I have been informed that the Auto Parts store was located in East Liverpool, Ohio.
-Don

 

[DadsTools]

I posted this picture contributed by Twertsy upthread but here it is again. The ratchet shape may provide clues to who the manufacturer was. I have been informed that the Auto Parts store was located in East Liverpool, Ohio.
-Don

I think this avenue of reasoning is going to bring us closer to the truth. As I argued in Post #93, the answer is not going to be found in trying to shoehorn SR into a known mfr's branding, even if one of those known mfrs actually made the tools for SR. I'm not sure whether identifying the make of the ratchet in this ad will help because there are sufficient examples of recognized brands where their ratchets were made by someone else--certainly Plomb/Proto and New Britain are prime examples of having made the ratchets that were included in numerous other brands' tool sets.

We can't know for sure if the SR in this ad is the same SR we're looking for, but it's perhaps the best witness we have found so far. This would also be in line with my suspicion that it was a private brand sold either through a small chain or jobbed out to independent mom & pop hardware/parts stores, hence the finding of SR tools in various regions around the country (they could have not all originated from this one small parts shop with only a three-digit phone number).

The trouble is, of course, that the kind of research this avenue would involve may be more than what most might be willing to dedicate to this mission. The SR surely stands for some name, but what's the payoff for the researcher in finding the answer for what might be a mountain of work?

 

[RTM]

The SR surely stands for some name, but what's the payoff for the researcher in finding the answer for what might be a mountain of work?

The laud and respect of a small cadre of GJers is enough for some, the self respect gained by bagging another mystery will be enough for others.

 

[d42jeep]

No closer to solving the mystery but added a socket to the collection today.
-Don

 

[DadsTools]

The laud and respect of a small cadre of GJers is enough for some, the self respect gained by bagging another mystery will be enough for others.

The ambitious crusader who solves this one will indeed have my respect.

 

[d42jeep]

I posted this on the Plomb thread but it no doubt belongs here. This one arrived on Thursday from an eBay seller.
-Don

 

[Smokeshow69]

My only current SR socket I posses. Cad plated 1/2” size , 1/2 drive size

 

[RagTopTA]

Here are the SR tools that I have gathered so far. I notice that the SR is stamped in different places on the same size sockets. Maybe thats a clue they were manufactured at different plants ? Also, the same swivel sockets are stamped deeper and seems to be about an 3/16's longer then the other.... Also... I have 1 , 1/4" drive socket!! ( Wil measure tomorrow to ensure is is 1/4 and not 9/32) drive socket! If you notice in the pictures, the blown up 1/2 sockets, two 1/2 sockets are marked/stamped in different spots. And the 3/4 socket twospots down is stamped with a SR with no space or periods..... And the SR rat that I have. Interesting stuff!

 

[Smokeshow69]

Here are the SR tools that I have gathered so far. I notice that the SR is stamped in different places on the same size sockets. Maybe thats a clue they were manufactured at different plants ? Also, the same swivel sockets are stamped deeper and seems to be about an 3/16's longer then the other.... Also... I have 1 , 1/4" drive socket!! ( Wil measure tomorrow to ensure is is 1/4 and not 9/32) drive socket! If you notice in the pictures, the blown up 1/2 sockets, two 1/2 sockets are marked/stamped in different spots. And the 3/4 socket twospots down is stamped with a SR with no space or periods..... And the SR rat that I have. Interesting stuff!

I knew I misplaced those sockets somewhere…

 

[Smokeshow69]

I know there are some opposing theories to this but I definitely believe the SR was a short lived Sears brand. I have an associate who has 2 Craftsman circle u 3/8 drive wobble sockets sets. 1 is complete and 1 is mostly there. This is the mostly their set. It is interesting to note that both sets contain a 11/16 SR labeled wobble. Is this a coincidence? Could be… but how did they both get into the sets? Was this done at the factory? Or was this done by 2 private parties independently from each other? I would think this wouldn’t fly with Sears unless they were ok with it. Plus with them being mixed in with circle u sets, I think we can use this to date their distribution to the time frame of craftsman circle u tools of 1944-1948.

Edit- just had a thought(I know, that’s shocking ), I have personally had both sets in my hands and all the sockets appear to be of the same age and to have been together since new. They were both purchased off eBay a few years apart so there is no way to speak to the original owner but per the 1948 catalog listing. 11/16 was included in the set so I believe they were sold this way. These 2 wobble sets are uncommon as most collectors , even some big time heavy hitters have non.With this being such a narrow/specialized range/ example, I think it may serve to point towards how these were originally distributed. I think they were purged from Sears stock in 1949 and then were sold to the auto parts stores in the pictures adds sometime after that

 

[RubiconJK]

I know there are some opposing theories to this but I definitely believe the SR was a short lived Sears brand. I have an associate who has 2 Craftsman circle u 3/8 drive wobble sockets sets. 1 is complete and 1 is mostly there. This is the mostly their set. It is interesting to note that both sets contain a 11/16 SR labeled wobble. Is this a coincidence? Could be… but how did they both get into the sets? Was this done at the factory? Or was this done by 2 private parties independently from each other? I would think this wouldn’t fly with Sears unless they were ok with it. Plus with them being mixed in with circle u sets, I think we can use this to date their distribution to the time frame of craftsman circle u tools of 1944-1948.

Edit- just had a thought(I know, that’s shocking ), I have personally had both sets in my hands and all the sockets appear to be of the same age and to have been together since new. They were both purchased off eBay a few years apart so there is no way to speak to the original owner but per the 1948 catalog listing. 11/16 was included in the set so I believe they were sold this way. These 2 wobble sets are uncommon as most collectors , even some big time heavy hitters have non.With this being such a narrow/specialized range/ example, I think it may serve to point towards how these were originally distributed. I think they were purged from Sears stock in 1949 and then were sold to the auto parts stores in the pictures adds sometime after that

The fact that both sets have the same size SR marked socket does seem like more than a coincidence. If 11/16 wasn't included in the set we could shoot holes in the theory but that isn't the case. You may be on to something here.

 

[Smokeshow69]

The fact that both sets have the same size SR marked socket does seem like more than a coincidence. If 11/16 wasn't included in the set we could shoot holes in the theory but that isn't the case. You may be on to something here.

I agree. When I saw the first set I was intrigued but thought maybe the prior owner broke one and picked up the replacement sometime down the road. But once I saw the second set, I was really intrigued. Especially since these circle u wobble sets are pretty uncommon to begin with. Just seems super coincidental

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It is interesting to note that both sets contain a 11/16 SR labeled wobble.

While anecdotal, it does give more credence to the S.ears R.oebuck theory postulated here on this thread since the beginning, which is not devoid of other credence (older Sears, Roebuck, & Co, catalogs that use "S.R." in abbreviation coupled with the 1954 auto supply ad). Since there's no provenance, one [S.R.] swivel in one Craftsman Circle-U swivel set could be happenstance. Two begins to wear away the resistance, especially when there is similar precedence for a mix of markings ending up in sets in other parallel (e.g. Circle-H and Circle-BE) or overlapping (e.g., Circle-H and =V=) production lines. More examples showing up could push the needle toward definitive, or then again, might be someone sticking [S.R.] sockets in Circle-U sets to jerk our chains. That will always be the issue with empirical evidence vs. a document. We probably need a document to really settle this one.

BTW, I wouldn't call the cons to the theory upthread "opposed" so much as prudent reasons to remain dubious until prove otherwise. I don't think anyone has a strong reason to NOT want the answer to be Sears, Roebuck, in other words. The "[S.R.]" marking does not bear any resemblance to their known practices, at what was a time of the rising pinnacle of their empire, and that's a very hard thing to too easily dismiss. They weren't using their corporate name as a brand on the tools themselves until much, much later, and then it was the full name, not reduced and left so crudely, casually, and counterintuitively to their entire marketing scheme up to the interpretation of a pair of initials in abbreviation. The "industrial line" (where branding is secondary) theory, not meant for commercial sales, is a decent antidote to that problem, but still sketchy, and, doesn't jibe with the 1954 Auto Supply ad.

 

[d42jeep]

Look at the similarity between this S.R. socket design and these WF universal sockets. Two of these cad plated Plomb marked universal sockets are pretty much the same design as well.

 

[RagTopTA]

What does it say about them that we find them all over the country ? If they were Sears Roebuck would they be sold in non Sears stores? Or were they only sold in house with Sears stores ? So many questions. I was looking through a lot of Ceramic Auto supply adds and dont see any more adds for them but there are a ton of them. I did find Ceramic changed its name in like 68...

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Look at the similarity between this S.R. socket design and these WF universal sockets.

I don't think there's ever been any question about the OEM being Plomb, Don.

 

[d42jeep]

Of course not. The point is that after the war ended Plomb still had a huge manufacturing capability and was likely to want to sell off some of these at greatly reduced prices. It’s possible that Sears wanted to give some direct marketing a try to see how it went.
-Don

 

[3baygarage]

Hard to believe no documentation has shown up still.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Okay, Don, sorry, yes, that's been discussed before, it's the same reason given for seeing some WF- die-based Plomb stuff sold to non-military customers postwar, and goes implicitly hand-in-glove with the Sears theory since they were already selling Circle-U to them. I just didn't get that as the point you were making from a post pointing out that they were identical, which seemed to be making a physical comparison that's been a given. My bad.

 

[d42jeep]

These unmarked ratchets were included in some Sears sets as well, if I’m not mistaken. Plomb must have been having a fire sale.
-Don

 

[Smokeshow69]

These unmarked ratchets were included in some Sears sets as well, if I’m not mistaken. Plomb must have been having a fire sale.
-Don

Don you are correct. Right after the war and until 1949, Sears was selling 1/4 drive sets with unmarked plomb ratchets and be/circle h sockets. These went away when Moore drop forge won the contract in 1949.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I have one set that I picked up with one and thought what the heck is this? But then several other collectors had similar situations so I figured some must have come that way.

 

[Smokeshow69]

I have one set that I picked up with one and thought what the heck is this? But then several other collectors had similar situations so I figured some must have come that way.

Many a collector has picked one up and thought, why did gramps put this plomb ratchet in this set? He must have misplaced the craftsman one.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I have one set that I picked up with one and thought what the heck is this? But then several other collectors had similar situations so I figured some must have come that way.

Are you referring to a Plomb ratchet or an [S.R ] socket?