Electronic torque wrenches, what's your take.
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Interex
Well-known member
Wrong section
But I'd be interested in getting everyone's take on the subject.
But I'd be interested in getting everyone's take on the subject.
RbrtAWhyt
Well-known member
Why is a thread about torque wrenches in the General Tool Discussion forum the wrong section?
Anyway, a buddy of mine has KD8503 and it seems to work great. If I didn't already what I need in torque wrenches I would consider one...
Interex
Well-known member
It was in the classifieds section originally. Looks like a mod moved it.
2drx4
Well-known member
I hate anything with batteries. They always go dead at inopportune times.
That said, I've seen a few guys with them that swear by them (automotive/racing guys, not aviation).
That said, I've seen a few guys with them that swear by them (automotive/racing guys, not aviation).
I've got a Snap on tech angle i think it's a fantastic piece of kit, it great when doing head work when needing to change from torque to angles. I've had mine nearly a year and haven't needed to change the batteries yet but i always take a battery out of it when it's not in use. I know the Tech angle is expensive but it's worth it.
Indy_500
Well-known member
I think a $10 harbor freight torque wrench does the same thing imo. My friend has an electronic torque wrench. It's neat but i don't think it's worth it unless your a "pro"
wbclassics
Well-known member
We have some of the KD Tools / Gearwrench strain gauge based electronic torque wrenches, they're fantastic - but do eat triple-A batteries quickly!
Think I paid about $250 for the 1/2" drive units in 2008, might be cheaper now. KD makes them for Craftsman as well and I believe another higher end tool company too. The Craftsman units are limited in their torque values vs the KD units. As in our 1/2" units have a max of 250ft/lbs, I believe the Craftsman 1/2" unit only reads to 225ft lbs.
Our units came with certification papers from KD in the case. We had them checked and they were spot on... errors of nearly 0 in the mid range, max error was less than 1%. The features on the KD are nice, I like the three stage light approach, lets you know how close you're getting quickly without looking at the LCD. The beep on hitting your torque value is also nice if you're in a position where you can't see the LCD. The LCD also flashes your peak torque for that pull once you're done pulling.
Overall nice unit, excellent price, well made... just a power hog. Strain gauge guts should be as accurate as anything else out there. (These are used in a pro-enviroment, all we do is British car performance work)
Think I paid about $250 for the 1/2" drive units in 2008, might be cheaper now. KD makes them for Craftsman as well and I believe another higher end tool company too. The Craftsman units are limited in their torque values vs the KD units. As in our 1/2" units have a max of 250ft/lbs, I believe the Craftsman 1/2" unit only reads to 225ft lbs.
Our units came with certification papers from KD in the case. We had them checked and they were spot on... errors of nearly 0 in the mid range, max error was less than 1%. The features on the KD are nice, I like the three stage light approach, lets you know how close you're getting quickly without looking at the LCD. The beep on hitting your torque value is also nice if you're in a position where you can't see the LCD. The LCD also flashes your peak torque for that pull once you're done pulling.
Overall nice unit, excellent price, well made... just a power hog. Strain gauge guts should be as accurate as anything else out there. (These are used in a pro-enviroment, all we do is British car performance work)
GeorgiaHybrid
Well-known member
I have 3 CDI computorq3 wrenches (1/4, 3/8 amd 1/2) and use them often. Mine takes the A123 size batteries (they share that size with my surefire lights) but the auto shutoff feature keeps them from running down the battery. They have the yellow (getting close), green (on torque) and red (you screwed the pooch) lights that make them easy to use when you are not in a good position to see the display.
They also have the different "beeps" that will let you know the same three stages if you are pulling out of sight. You can also look at the display and get a returned value on the last bolt torqued. I don't use the 1/2 very often (prefer my SO clicker for those) but when running down head bolts, that is the one I usually grab.
Overall, they are nice but I wish that I had bought the tech angle style instead of the regular one for those times when I need to deal with a "torque to yield" fastener. Easy to get around with a dial but still, wish I had gone with them instead.
They also have the different "beeps" that will let you know the same three stages if you are pulling out of sight. You can also look at the display and get a returned value on the last bolt torqued. I don't use the 1/2 very often (prefer my SO clicker for those) but when running down head bolts, that is the one I usually grab.
Overall, they are nice but I wish that I had bought the tech angle style instead of the regular one for those times when I need to deal with a "torque to yield" fastener. Easy to get around with a dial but still, wish I had gone with them instead.
Steve from Socal
Well-known member
If you need angle torque values then electronic IS the way to go. For standard torque settings you could live with out them but they are good for any use. With more and more fasteners being torqued to other than a standard direct measured values the electronic wrenches are becoming a necessity not a gimmick.
Steve
Steve
speed bump
Well-known member
Love my 3/8" techwrench so much that except for a torque wrench for doing tires and what not I would probably go any other way if I could afford it.
mrshaun
Well-known member
I sell them quite often. I tell the guys to leave the batteries out of them if they are not using them. Prevents the cheap little batteries from leaking as well...
Moose-LandTran
Well-known member
Whenever i buy something electronic, the first thing i do is chuck the cheap sh*t batteries and replace them with good ones. Haven't had a single problem with Duracell batteries in years.
Teken
Well-known member
George & Steve,
Can you both clarify more in simple terms the *Tech Angle* torque to yield.
Insight . . .
mrholeshot
MEMBER EMERITUS
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I don't like the idea that my torque wrench could quit due to moisture. I also have had enough battery operated tools in my life to know that it isn't if the go bad as more than when. As a Professional engine builder I found that my QDFR250(?) snap-on flex head torque wrench has withstood the test of time and use. I also have the 3/8 version (QDFR100?) along with a Snap-on 1/4 40-200 inch lb (model?) along with some other dial in inch and ft lb. I also have seperate torque wrenches I use on wheels. I have my QDFR250 calibrated about every 18 months because it gets a work out. It's always within 4% of the torque value. I've had this wrench for many years and if a digital went 5 years I'd be surprized. Just can't see spending that kind of money for a tool that won't last and Snap-On won't be able to repair (Have one of their timing lights they can't repair (all digital). Ask yourself do really think it will be working in 10 years? I see the usefulness of it on something like a multi-million dollar race team where they can just toss it out like a popsickle stick as it cost less than 1 connecting rod in a Cup engine. For the everyday pro tech I think it's a waste of money. If I have to put batteries in it before I use it (to keep them from leaking into the wrench) and take them out after. I can't see the appeal.
As far as the 9.95 HF torque wrench goes I think it's a great buy but I think id stick to wheels with them. You really don't want to build a $10,000 engine with a 10 dollar torque wrench. I've seen these things be off 10-15% off. The most important thing in that style is to back it down to it's lowest setting after each use. If you don't you will be off a great deal.
As far as the 9.95 HF torque wrench goes I think it's a great buy but I think id stick to wheels with them. You really don't want to build a $10,000 engine with a 10 dollar torque wrench. I've seen these things be off 10-15% off. The most important thing in that style is to back it down to it's lowest setting after each use. If you don't you will be off a great deal.
GeorgiaHybrid
Well-known member
Teken,
The torque to yield specs will give a value to torque the bolt down plus an additional amount to turn the fastener (given in degrees). This forces the bolt to stretch and put as much load on the connected parts as possible. The tricky part is to let the bolt elongate (stretch) but not past the point of yielding (bolt failure..).
Done right, the bolt will stretch but when the load is taken away, it will return to its normal length. This is what typically happens with "torque plus angle" bolts. For "torque to yield" bolts, the angle is increased (increasing the torque applied on the bolt) just to the point that the bolt will be permanently longer once the load is removed. It will not fail at that point but will produce the maximum clamping force on the connected parts.
If you go much past this point however, the bolt will start necking down and fail prematurely with disastrous results in your engine or other machinery.
The torque to yield specs will give a value to torque the bolt down plus an additional amount to turn the fastener (given in degrees). This forces the bolt to stretch and put as much load on the connected parts as possible. The tricky part is to let the bolt elongate (stretch) but not past the point of yielding (bolt failure..).
Done right, the bolt will stretch but when the load is taken away, it will return to its normal length. This is what typically happens with "torque plus angle" bolts. For "torque to yield" bolts, the angle is increased (increasing the torque applied on the bolt) just to the point that the bolt will be permanently longer once the load is removed. It will not fail at that point but will produce the maximum clamping force on the connected parts.
If you go much past this point however, the bolt will start necking down and fail prematurely with disastrous results in your engine or other machinery.
I think certain items just have to be analog/mechanical. Like with HVAC gauges and thermometers. They are not expensive, moisture/sweat plays hell with them, and always having to have spare batteries.
I'll take analog gauges, metal rod t-meters (even old style glass ones when I find them!) and click style torque wrenches anytime over the new fangled electro ones.
Teken
Well-known member
That is fantastic insight and clarification. As always I thank you and the others for sharing their knowledge with me . . .
DARKSCOPE001
Well-known member
a friend of mine at school bought the one from horror freight and brought it back to school to kinda hillbilly test it. he tourqed a bolt per the manual with the harbor freight wrench. withc was electronic. then double checked it with a snapon clicker type that was calibrated. so he was happy with it and it now lives in his box so that he doesent have to fight over them when he needs one.
JUST MY $0.02
JUST MY $0.02
GeorgiaHybrid
Well-known member
That is fantastic insight and clarification. As always I thank you and the others for sharing their knowledge with me . . .
Teken,
One other thing to remember, if you run across these bolts on a car, make sure you replace them when putting it back together. You don't want to ruin a nice engine over the cost of a few bolts.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I have a techangle at work. I would hate to be without it. It's quick and accurate. You can bounce between inch pounds and foot pounds plus newton meters. The Snap on unit beeps and the handle vibrates when the set torque is reached. As others have pointed out, there isn't an easier way to tighten torque to yield fasteners. It's not cheap but, if you turn wrenches professionally, it's a wse purchase. The early tech wrenches had a problems with batteries discharging if left in the unit. Snap on fixed that and the batteries last quite awhile now.
Steve from Socal
Well-known member
I don't know about other engines but, Mercedes has published specs for all their stretch bolts. If they are within spec there is no issue re-using them. Rod bolts and head bolts are commonly reused and run hundreds of thousands of miles.
Steve
redsky49
Well-known member
Very interesting. I didn't know any of this. Which engines, or other applications, now require this?
I did know that in some applications that the fastener is intentionally stretched, thus the prohibition against re-use, but had never come across torque plus angle, let alone torque to yield. How about some pics?
A couple of quick comments that might help in your decision making process... (Admittedly, I currently only own a SO 1/4" drive click type--I'm a tech. student still)
It's a fact that an electronic torque wrenches will cover a larger range of torques than a click type. This might mean that a tech could own fewer torque wrenches.
It's also my understanding that the electronic torque wrenches hold their calibration for a longer period of time. Since their operation is based upon a strain gauge, they do not suffer from metal fatigue like a click type (The click types have a large metal spring which, like any spring will fatigue, effecting calibration). This may, or may not, be an issue for you, depending on where you work. In some facets of aviation, for instance, ALL torque tools have to be sent out periodically for calibration. In this case it wouldn't matter which one you had. Also, an added bonus is that you don't have to zero-out the electronic type before storage as it is recommended you do with click type. I always forget to do this.
It's a fact that an electronic torque wrenches will cover a larger range of torques than a click type. This might mean that a tech could own fewer torque wrenches.
It's also my understanding that the electronic torque wrenches hold their calibration for a longer period of time. Since their operation is based upon a strain gauge, they do not suffer from metal fatigue like a click type (The click types have a large metal spring which, like any spring will fatigue, effecting calibration). This may, or may not, be an issue for you, depending on where you work. In some facets of aviation, for instance, ALL torque tools have to be sent out periodically for calibration. In this case it wouldn't matter which one you had. Also, an added bonus is that you don't have to zero-out the electronic type before storage as it is recommended you do with click type. I always forget to do this.
Teken
Well-known member
Fubar
Well-known member
After owning my 1/2 inch tech angle i'm now thinking about getting a 3/8 as well although i already have a 3/8 click type
Robertob
Banned
I got a cool extension-style one from sears on clearance for about $40 - no handle, just a 1/2 drive extension with a meter-sized box and cable. Very nice, uses 9v batteries that last forever. I like it.
TTY fasteners are used on most newer cars' head bolts, main bolts and rod bolts.
TTY fasteners are used on most newer cars' head bolts, main bolts and rod bolts.
GeorgiaHybrid
Well-known member
Steve, it is just my "Mr Murphy" outlook on life. I will not take a chance on an engine for $100 worth of bolts. I know guys that re-use the oil pump on a re-build. I always replace them also.... As a side note, there are a lot of companies that prohibit re-use of bolts that are torque to yield fasteners.
Most late model cars (that I know of) use this style of bolt internally in their engines. As far as pictures go, they look just like a normal bolt. The only thing that is different is the method used to tighten them.
Tarheelgarage
Well-known member
Very common. I replaced the headgaskets on a 98 Dodge Caravan, 3.3l a while back. It was spec'd an initial torque value (I forget, maybe 90ft/lb) then an angle of rotation.
The reuse of bolts in this case is acceptable. I examined the bolt threads to see if there was any damage or signs of stretching.
alex71
Well-known member
this is the second thread in a couple of days (that I've spotted, I bet there are actually more) where you've injected your harbor freight BS, completely OT. You ***** when the "HF haters" clog up your china tools threads, but this is OK? posts like this are worthless, so stop it.
Falcon67
Well-known member
Just about everything uses torque-to-yield bolts on it now. AFAIK, about all Ford head bolts are like this. They cannot be reused - an as noted, bolts are cheap. Why chance the work on used bolts. Unless you switch everything to ARP.
oldskoolgixxer
Active member
i use a snap on tech wrench....i brought mine because i 'm told it is more precise than a standard click type, apparently....when a standard torque wrench reaches the correct torque setting it then clicks creating a breif moment of extra leverage...with a electronic/digital there isnt any of that clicking....and over torqing ...just a beep and a buzzz.....but i found i did have to take the batteries out after use or else they would go flat after being left in me box for a bit.......
wafrederick
Well-known member
You can overtorque fastners and can't catch it right away.GM 3400 intake retaining bolts are not to be reused and GM said this.The upgraded Dorman intake gaskets kit for the 3400s have new intake bolts supplied.There is an alternative to the angle gauge most of the time,a quarter turn with a breaker bar and this does work
it is actually much easier to over torque with an electronic wrench and an inexperienced operator. all torque wrenchs must be turned slowly and smoothly. with a traditional click type the torque actually peaks at the click, dips down to a lower torque and then finally over torques if you keep pressure on the wrench. torque curve of a traditional click wrench http://www.mountztorque.com/learning-center/guide/selecting-proper-torque-wrench
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Price a Ford ****** head gasket kit. Right expensive, thats because it comes with a new set of bolts. Once torqued, the bolts have to be discarded when removed. There are many others.
Charles
redsky49
Well-known member
I know this is an old thread. I have been using my brand new Armstrong eletronic torque wrench(no longer Made in USA, Assembled instead) for couple months now, I did notice what you said about over torquing bolts.
before the Armstrong, I use mostly 1/2 dr. snap on split beam torque wrench. the "click" of the torque wrench actually stops the turning motion, therefore, no over torque.
on an electronic torque wrench, I have to be very careful because thou it makes a sound, but it takes time for me to stop. I don't watch the display, either. things like 80ftlb and over, I'm normally on the side of the wrench pulling the handle. but one good thing is, it also records the actual torque applied.
I had to torque 12 bolts to 100ftlb the other day, most of them showed 106ftlb.