To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

How to flood your basement in one simple step

TT_Vert

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
1,436
Location
Wauconda, IL.
I've never seen such a failure in my life. I'm lucky I happened to wake up and hear not on only my sump going off but water gushing everywhere. Luckily I have a utility sump/basin that was catching SOME of the water and pumping it out. Hopefully I can get this fitting/adapter withiest having to buy a new pup too but I feel these may be fairly proprietary. Hopefully not. Certainly need to use a different manufacturer than this!IMG_20220817_064915976.jpg
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20220817_064908902.jpg
    IMG_20220817_064908902.jpg
    160.1 KB · Views: 57
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

PoorUB

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 29, 2021
Messages
11,656
Location
Fargo, ND
Looks like a B&G domestic water recirc pump. The base that is still attached to the water lines is part of the pump.

If it is a recirc pump you could buy a couple ball valves and put them on place temporarily and install the pump later.
 
OP
T

TT_Vert

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
1,436
Location
Wauconda, IL.
Looks like a B&G domestic water recirc pump. The base that is still attached to the water lines is part of the pump.

If it is a recirc pump you could buy a couple ball valves and put them on place temporarily and install the pump later.
The pump threads onto that and there is a gasket between the two. Yeah i already had ball valves in place on both sides, the pump is out and i unsoldered one fitting and unthreaded the other. I was hoping i could get just a mounting flange so I don't have to more than likely drain the hot water heater as there is water on the other side of the ball valve which is very near where the other fitting is that would have to be unsoldered. The water is just acting like a heat sync so i won't be able to get the pipe hot enough to pull that fitting I don't think. It seems some new ones actually use braided line so you don't have to rigidly mount them in there. Not sure i want to do that but it makes R&R much easier in the future.

Dave
 

PoorUB

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 29, 2021
Messages
11,656
Location
Fargo, ND
Is there anything supporting the pump other than the base that is still attached to the line?
I doubt it. It is typical to just hang the pump off the water lines. In this case it is a tiny pump, maybe 1/12th HP.

I have installed hundreds of pumps similar to this and they just hang off the pipe.
 
OP
T

TT_Vert

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
1,436
Location
Wauconda, IL.
Yep just supported by anchored 1/2" copper. The weight isn't an issue but perhaps the constant vibration caused this, not sure. The pump is a UP10-16BN5 TLC (it's the one on the right)
 
Last edited:
OP
T

TT_Vert

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
1,436
Location
Wauconda, IL.
Let me ask you guys your opinion. Is there any way I can put in unions here from 1/2" copper to whatever NPT size I get for the pump I get? My existing is 1/2" NPT but seems many are 3/4" now. How am I to solder this thing in if i need to thread the npt to copper onto the pump before soldering? I would heat up any pipe dope or Teflon tape I put on the NPT fitting into the pump.

Thanks
Dave
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
T

TT_Vert

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
1,436
Location
Wauconda, IL.
In this case I cannot really do that as the copper pipe supports the weight of the pump.

I Just researched sharkbite and you can actually use them on copper pipe it seems? if so I could go this route. I hate adding couplers and points of failure where I don't have to but I'd love opinions on how the original installer was able to heat up the 1/2 NPT to 1/2" copper adapter that goes into the pump w/o completely torching the teflon tape or pipe dope.

Dave
 
Last edited:

Packard V8

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
7,380
Location
Spokane, WA
In this case I cannot really do that as the copper pipe supports the weight of the pump.

Dave
And that didn't end well for you, did it Dave?

It is typical to just hang the pump off the water lines. In this case it is a tiny pump, maybe 1/12th HP. I have installed hundreds of pumps similar to this and they just hang off the pipe.
Just because it mostly is satisfactory, Dave's basement still was flooded and once is too many. I wouldn't be doing a straight R&R. One definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result.

jack vines
 
OP
T

TT_Vert

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
1,436
Location
Wauconda, IL.
And that didn't end well for you, did it Dave?


Just because it mostly is satisfactory, Dave's basement still was flooded and once is too many. I wouldn't be doing a straight R&R. One definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result.

jack vines
You are speculating on the reason of failure. Given the location of point of failure I'd argue that stress from weight did not cause this as it's on a non load bearing vertical surface. Had the failure been at the bottom I'd be more agreeable to that theory. These are designed to be mounted this way so I am going to assume grunfos did their due R&R diligence. I also have to assume there are thousands of this pump mounted in the exact same way all over the country. Given the internet and all I'd assume i'd have heard of at least one more instance like this. With that said, if anyone has any input (aside from sharkbite) or a 1/2" copper pipe union (Those things are bucks!!) to allow me to solder the 1/2" copper into the NPT to copper fitting that i must screw into the pump itself prior to soldering (UNLESS i get unions of course)

Dave
 

PoorUB

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 29, 2021
Messages
11,656
Location
Fargo, ND
And that didn't end well for you, did it Dave?


Just because it mostly is satisfactory, Dave's basement still was flooded and once is too many. I wouldn't be doing a straight R&R. One definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result.

jack vines
It is not satisfactory, it is a standard method in the industry. It is extremely rare to see these small pumps mounted. We are not talking a 100 pound 1 HP pump.

Mounting the pump is no guarantee the failure would not still have happened.
 

nadogail

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
31,980
Location
Coronado, CA
I have been using the Shark Bite connections with the steel braided flexible hose when I replace the water heaters in my rentals. I have also used them to repair the underground supply lines from the meter to the house.

The first Shark Bite repair I made to a water line has been working for more than 20 years.

I was doubtful about them until I saw the Cashco name the package. I have enjoyed a good history using Cashco valves.
 
OP
T

TT_Vert

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
1,436
Location
Wauconda, IL.
The bigger issue for me is that I then need to run a jumper wire between the two for conductivity to be up to code. It will look like ****. I'm just going to use GU 135 unions and a different grundfos pump I think. I know some love them, some hate them.

Dave
 

Steve W.

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
1,252
Location
Southwest oHIo
The bigger issue for me is that I then need to run a jumper wire between the two for conductivity to be up to code. It will look like ****.
Is this on exhibit in a public area?

If it's hidden in the corner of your basement, what difference does it make how it looks?

The important things are HOW it works and THAT it works.

.
 

Grimpala

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
1,406
Judging by the pictures it appears that the failure point in the threads was immediately past where the pump coupler ends. To me that looks like a fatigue failure. How long has the pump been installed this way? If 6 months I'd find another way to skin this cat, if 10 years, I'd put it back as is and check on it once a year or so.
 
OP
T

TT_Vert

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
1,436
Location
Wauconda, IL.
Judging by the pictures it appears that the failure point in the threads was immediately past where the pump coupler ends. To me that looks like a fatigue failure. How long has the pump been installed this way? If 6 months I'd find another way to skin this cat, if 10 years, I'd put it back as is and check on it once a year or so.
it broke mid threads. I would have to see exactly where the threads stopped to see if that was the failure point. It was there at least 4 years as I've lived her that long. i'm sure it's much longer.
 

Grimpala

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
1,406
You can see the clean threads that were inside the coupler against the discolored threads that have oxidized and the failure appears to be on the root between them. That to me seems fatigue related.

I'd put in a new pump with the install just as is and keep an eye on it. Of course with today's metallurgy my bet is the new one lasts a while, but not near as long as the original.
 

flat350

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
1,006
Location
illinois
The pump threads onto that and there is a gasket between the two. Yeah i already had ball valves in place on both sides, the pump is out and i unsoldered one fitting and unthreaded the other. I was hoping i could get just a mounting flange so I don't have to more than likely drain the hot water heater as there is water on the other side of the ball valve which is very near where the other fitting is that would have to be unsoldered. The water is just acting like a heat sync so i won't be able to get the pipe hot enough to pull that fitting I don't think. It seems some new ones actually use braided line so you don't have to rigidly mount them in there. Not sure i want to do that but it makes R&R much easier in the future.

Dave
Install it like they did originally, pre-fab a short piece of copper to the MIP adapter and the use a coupling . You can see the original coupling used in the one pic.
 

Bretny

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2017
Messages
3,918
Location
Dutchess county NY
that's the mounting flange fed by 1/2" copper that is for my recirculation pump for my furthest bathroom. The threads separated mid casting. Ridiculous.
So remove the pump. Do you really need hot water in 2 seconds at the risk of flooding your basement?
 
OP
T

TT_Vert

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
1,436
Location
Wauconda, IL.
Install it like they did originally, pre-fab a short piece of copper to the MIP adapter and the use a coupling . You can see the original coupling used in the one pic.
There was no coupling. All solder in connections. I did end up going w/ a grundfos pump w/ gasketed connections. THe temp portion of this $500 pump is garbage though. One mode is supposed to retain a temp by using an internal temp sensor to turn pump on/off and it's always in standby mode.

Dave
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom