Anyone still use fluorescent shoplights?

[ng3689]

From what I've seen here, most people use LED shop/garage lights; However does anyone still use fluorescent?

This runs two f40t12's (drawing 80w) and runs on a magnetic rapid start ballast. In my workshop I have wrap around that runs two f40t12's and has a bad ballast but still works.

I use fluorescent lights for many reason but I just generally think they're better than LED and magnetic ballasts are generally better than electronic ballasts.

 

[65ranchero]

I'm using t8s in the work garage
similar to these , but I don't think they cost that much very bright and instant on.
Opted for covers to keep dust to a very minimum for the high bay

4 ft. 4 Lamp F32T8 - Fluorescent Water/Vapor Tight Fixture - 120/277 V

With a universal operating voltage of 120 to 277, the Utopia, HV-432-UNV tandem fluorescent strip fixture comes in a durable, weatherproof enclosure. The housing is made from one piece of compression-molded polycarbonate with durable stainless steel latches and a diffuser that is strong and...

four-bros.com

 

[whateg01]

What makes them "better"? I got tired of replacing them every winter or waiting 10 minutes for them to reach full brightness.

 

[65ranchero]

I got them at the recommendation of my electrician, they are the replacement for new construction and LED bulbs hadn't proven themselves yet.
Instant on ( but I keep my garage @ 58F in the winter)

 

[RoninB4]

I have a few donated to me. When they **** out I'll get LED's like the other two I have. Yes the light is different but I use a different light to match what I need it to do.

 

[ng3689]

I'm using t8s in the work garage
similar to these , but I don't think they cost that much very bright and instant on.
Opted for covers to keep dust to a very minimum for the high bay

4 ft. 4 Lamp F32T8 - Fluorescent Water/Vapor Tight Fixture - 120/277 V

With a universal operating voltage of 120 to 277, the Utopia, HV-432-UNV tandem fluorescent strip fixture comes in a durable, weatherproof enclosure. The housing is made from one piece of compression-molded polycarbonate with durable stainless steel latches and a diffuser that is strong and...

four-bros.com

Interesting, I have never heard of 4 lamp vaportight fixtures. I don't prefer f32t8's because they're usually lower quality than other varients so if I were to use 4ft t8 I would use f36t8's.

 

[ng3689]

What makes them "better"? I got tired of replacing them every winter or waiting 10 minutes for them to reach full brightness.

How cold was it in the winter? You were using f34t12's or f32t8's I bet. Those are the worst when it comes to tempurature. The krypton gasfill in the f34's makes them very sensitive to differences in temp. and f34t12's and f32t8's (and other 48in t8 varients) generally have lower mercury content.

edit: When you use higher quality lamps (not Sylvania or Philips Alto) that have more emmisive coating on the filaments, they last much longer; don93s on Lighting Gallery has had a Durotest f14t12 running since 2007 with over 180k hours (Durotest lamps are the best, at least the ones before 2000), when disposed of correctly, they're better for the environment (the mercury is reclaimed for more lamps, the phosphors are supposedly used for pigments in paint, the endcaps are supposedly reused (I find that slightly hard to believe) and the glass is reused) meanwhile LEDs are thrown in the trash and the plastic and chemicals inside the lamps leach into the environment and lastly, when the 'ballast' in a LED dies then the tube/fixture is dead. You can't fix it easily meanwhile with fluorescents, when the ballast fails (which with magnetic ballasts can take awhile) then just replace the ballast and usually the lamps work normally again however when an electronic ballast fails in certain ways or a preheat ballast shorts then you have to replace the lamps (that's why you don't use electronic ballasts but unfourtunatly magnetic ballasts are banned so you have to use electronic -_- ; Preheat ballasts shorting are very rare).

 

[Etchase]

I haven’t installed a fluorescent fixture in a decade, but I haven’t thrown any working ones out. I have 7 high color rendition bulbs left. Hard to get rid of. I did have half of a $20 Costco LED fixture start to flicker recently after at least 7 years IIRC.7 others are still working fine. I didn’t know that was a failure mode. I started to think about repairing it, but then I discovered they are down to $12.50 now. I will never know what the failure mode was.

 

[65ranchero]

Interesting, I have never heard of 4 lamp vaportight fixtures. I don't prefer f32t8's because they're usually lower quality than other varients so if I were to use 4ft t8 I would use f36t8's.

Sorry! wrong picture.
the ones I have are 2 lamp 4 footers

 

[ng3689]

I haven’t installed a fluorescent fixture in a decade, but I haven’t thrown any working ones out. I have 7 high color rendition bulbs left. Hard to get rid of. I did have half of a $20 Costco LED fixture start to flicker recently after at least 7 years IIRC.7 others are still working fine. I didn’t know that was a failure mode. I started to think about repairing it, but then I discovered they are down to $12.50 now. I will never know what the failure mode was.

What is the CRI in the high CRI lamps? High CRI lamps are actually banned in common sizes (a high CRI does sacrifice efficiency). Flickering/pulsing is the most common mode of failure in LED drivers.

I personally wouldn't get a fixture from Costco because it probably wouldn't be the best quality and also keep in mind that quality declines over time so that new fixture may be as high quality.

 

[ng3689]

Sorry! wrong picture.
the ones I have are 2 lamp 4 footers

Those are pretty common, cool find with the 4 lampers though. Just for fun once, I converted my two lamp wrap around to a 3 lamp wrap around for a short amount of time (I mounted the ballasts on the back).

 

[Bert_]

My work room in my basement is lit with 3 preheat "shop lights" from the 40's. 8' Slimline and HO in the garage.

 

[ng3689]

My work room in my basement is lit with 3 preheat "shop lights" from the 40's.

That's incredible! Could you send some pictures?

 

[American Locomotive]

I have a bunch of 8 footers in the barn, they all have the 90 CRI 5000k bulbs, as I can't stand the normal ~75 CRI bulbs. Efficiency isn't great with the 90 CRI bulbs - maybe 50 lumens/watt. The barn also had 400W MH fixtures, but I gutted them and put 150W LED replacement bulbs in. Huge improvement with the LEDs.

Basement of the house has a F40T12 fixtures with the fancy "941" 90CRI tri-phosphor high efficiency bulbs (~75+ lumens/watt). Not even sure if you can buy these bulbs anymore.

As the bulbs/fixtures die, they'll get replaced with LEDs. I can't stand normal fluorescent CRI, and the efficiency just isn't that great.

 

[cybrdyke]

There hasn't been 180,000 hours since 2007.
CD

 

[Etchase]

What is the CRI in the high CRI lamps?

Probably shouldn’t have used the word high, but Philips claims they are 90. F40T12, 5,000 degrees. Tolerable light quality

 

[ng3689]

Probably shouldn’t have used the word high, but Philips claims they are 90. F40T12, 5,000 degrees. Tolerable light quality

I believe f40t12's with a CRI above 85 cannot be manufactured for use in the US anymore. I personally don't really care about CRI since all options you can find at Lowes has a good enough CRI.

 

[ng3689]

There hasn't been 180,000 hours since 2007.
CD

Ah I meant to say 120k. I don't know how 180k got in my head.

 

[ng3689]

I have a bunch of 8 footers in the barn, they all have the 90 CRI 5000k bulbs, as I can't stand the normal ~75 CRI bulbs. Efficiency isn't great with the 90 CRI bulbs - maybe 50 lumens/watt. The barn also had 400W MH fixtures, but I gutted them and put 150W LED replacement bulbs in. Huge improvement with the LEDs.

Basement of the house has a F40T12 fixtures with the fancy "941" 90CRI tri-phosphor high efficiency bulbs (~75+ lumens/watt). Not even sure if you can buy these bulbs anymore.

As the bulbs/fixtures die, they'll get replaced with LEDs. I can't stand normal fluorescent CRI, and the efficiency just isn't that great.

Did you buy the f96's with a high CRI online or at a local store?

941 lamps can probably still be found online though I'd try to get them in person at a specialty lighting store like Kino Flo.

 

[BillK]

I have three 4 tube 8 foot ones in my detached garage and two four foot ones in the attached one. My experience has been that tubes have been lasting at least 5 years. I wouldnt repair one if the ballast went bad but i wont replace one just for principle. My shop has 6 8ft 2 tube ones and I finally broke down and took out all of the ballasts and replaced the tubes with led tubes. Actually much better light.

 

[American Locomotive]

Did you buy the f96's with a high CRI online or at a local store?

941 lamps can probably still be found online though I'd try to get them in person at a specialty lighting store like Kino Flo.

Lowes had the F96 90CRI bulbs last time I bought some (2-3 years ago).

I will not be buying any more F40T12 941 lamps, or F96T12 lamps. I'm just going to replace them with LEDs when they fail. Flourescents are annoying, especially in the cold where my F40 and F96 lamps take several minutes to warm up when the barn is 40°F or colder.

 

[steel 35]

I had 8'rs back to back; They lasted but:
noisy, long tube replacement's common, expensive to dispose, last one was the first ballast.
Don't regret going to UFOs

 

[ng3689]

I have three 4 tube 8 foot ones in my detached garage and two four foot ones in the attached one. My experience has been that tubes have been lasting at least 5 years. I wouldnt repair one if the ballast went bad but i wont replace one just for principle. My shop has 6 8ft 2 tube ones and I finally broke down and took out all of the ballasts and replaced the tubes with led tubes. Actually much better light.

4x f96 tandem strips? That's pretty cool/uncommon. Too all that are retrofitting, the old fixtures would probably do well on ebay.

 

[ng3689]

Lowes had the F96 90CRI bulbs last time I bought some (2-3 years ago).

I will not be buying any more F40T12 941 lamps, or F96T12 lamps. I'm just going to replace them with LEDs when they fail. Flourescents are annoying, especially in the cold where my F40 and F96 lamps take several minutes to warm up when the barn is 40°F or colder.

I don't pay attention to they're slimlines since they're just too big for my space. Newer lamps aren't made the same like older lamps. The older ones were so much better and would out last LEDs any day (if they're run on proper ballasts). I've seen countless LED tubes fail too. Sections failing, the tubes greening out, series tubes failing and them turning purple like streetlights.

 

[American Locomotive]

Not sure what "aren't made the same like older lamps" means. I can recall going back nearly 30 years that fluorescent bulbs always kind of sucked, especially in applications where they're turned on and off more than like once a day. I've replaced way, way too many flourescent bulbs that really had very little use. As far as I'm concerned, bulbs 30 years ago failed just as often as bulbs today. The only difference is that bulbs 30 years ago had much worse CRI, while the light quality today is a lot better.

I was a big proponent of fluorescent fixtures for a long time. But their time has come and gone. I like my LEDs that turn on instantly, have better color rendering, and generally better reliability. I'm not going to cull perfectly working flourescent lights, but as the bulbs and ballasts die, they will be replaced or retrofitted.

 

[mike93lx]

I wouldn't install a fluorescent anywhere in my house if they were free.

 

[Bert_]

That's incredible! Could you send some pictures?

 

[ng3689]

Well take a look a Philips Alto lamp and a pre Alto lamp; One will be much higher quality than the other (mainly the older one will have more mercury so you won't end up with mercury starved lamps which are the pink ones). Or at a modern Durotest powertwist (2000+) Vs one from 1996; The newer one has more shallow twists while the older one has much thicker twists.

Sylvania lamps have always been kinda bad; I installed two 1975 4w cool white Sylvania's in my desklamp and they're already blackening after like one month. Older ones have a worse CRI because they're halophosphate which is a ration between yellow/orange and blue or Sb:Mn while newer ones are a ratio between red, green and blue (3 peaks of human vison or whatever). All lamps CRI looks the same to me though.

 

[ng3689]

Incredible preheaters. Do you collect lights? I see a lot of lights in the background.

 

[Mr_fixit]

100% fluorescents 4' in garage. 100% electronic t8. Start down to zero. I have ballasts and bulbs to last my lifetime. And they're pretty cheap if i live longer than I think.

 

[Norcal]

A 2 lamp F40T12 fixture will be closer to 100 watts not 80 because of the ballast loss. My Shop has Kenall vandal resistant T8 fixtures, they were factory prewired, just plug the wiring harness into the adjacent fixture in the row, +each lamp has a single lamp programmed start ballast, they were a accidental over order on a project, donated to the local ReStore, hate to think what those 2 pallets of fixtures cost, plus are some F96T8 & T12HO fixtures & 1 -F48T12 HO 3 lamp fixture, have considered going to ballast bypass LED in the Kenall fixtures, but have too many projects going now, including the garage roof next month & then done with roof replacements for a while, perhaps even for the rest of my life.

 

[rharman]

I have several 8' T-12 6000k (maybe 5000k - not sure) low mercury fluorescents in my garage. Had them for years.
When they die, I'll convert the fixtures to no-ballast LED's but until then, they're fine.

 

[ng3689]

A 2 lamp F40T12 fixture will be closer to 100 watts not 80 because of the ballast loss. My Shop has Kenall vandal resistant T8 fixtures, they were factory prewired, just plug the wiring harness into the adjacent fixture in the row, +each lamp has a single lamp programmed start ballast, they were a accidental over order on a project, donated to the local ReStore, hate to think what those 2 pallets of fixtures cost, plus are some F96T8 & T12HO fixtures & 1 -F48T12 HO 3 lamp fixture, have considered going to ballast bypass LED in the Kenall fixtures, but have too many projects going now, including the garage roof next month & then done with roof replacements for a while, perhaps even for the rest of my life.

I'd stick with fluorescent and use GE slimlines. And if you do retrofit, you should sell them (old lights) on eBay (just package them smartly).

 

[laser3kw]

I got tired of replacing them every winter or waiting 10 minutes for them to reach full brightness.

I have 40 t8 48" tubes in my unheated 40x30. I have had them in place for 9 years with inside temperature sometimes in the minus range. They have always came on, a little dim, but full bright in a few minutes, haven't had a ballast or tube fail. I don't wait for them to get full bright, I just get to doing what I am there for.

 

[Bert_]

Incredible preheaters. Do you collect lights? I see a lot of lights in the background.

I've got quite a bit more than what's in the picture. I like the old well built ones. Those shop lights are almost 75 years old, two of them have the dates stamped on the ballast.

Here something even more rare for you. I have them running the center lamps in the four troffers in my kitchen. https://flic.kr/p/25cFs6R

 

[ng3689]

I've got quite a bit more than what's in the picture. I like the old well built ones. Those shop lights are almost 75 years old, two of them have the dates stamped on the ballast.

Here something even more rare for you. They are running the center lamps in the four troffers in my kitchen. https://flic.kr/p/25cFs6R

Wow! A t8 magnetic ballast, that's pretty uncommon; I have a 1x f40 hpf rapid start ballast from Advance which is also fairly uncommon, most are lpf. I had two GE pre-1979 lpf ballasts (I know that because one was full of PCB's) but one failed so now I only have one in service.

 

[American Locomotive]

I have several 8' T-12 6000k (maybe 5000k - not sure) low mercury fluorescents in my garage. Had them for years.
When they die, I'll convert the fixtures to no-ballast LED's but until then, they're fine.

Basically where I'm at. They're fine, no impetus to replace them. But when they die, they're getting replaced with something that provides twice the light, at half the power with better color quality and instant turn on when cold.

There's just no advantage at all to fluorescent lights over modern LEDs anymore besides some kind of nostalgia.

 

[exmaxima1]

I still have (6) 4-tube fixtures in my basement shop. Got them 30 years ago from an office renovation project so they could be possibly 40 years old. Still work fine and I have a case of spare tubes that Grainger threw out. I'll upgrade them if I ever move but for now they are perfectly adequate.

 

[cybrdyke]

I've got quite a bit more than what's in the picture. I like the old well built ones. Those shop lights are almost 75 years old, two of them have the dates stamped on the ballast.

Here something even more rare for you. I have them running the center lamps in the four troffers in my kitchen. https://flic.kr/p/25cFs6R

We used to move a fair amount of these, normally when there were circumstances where the electronic version wasn't acceptable, like around sensitive equipment, etc. These have their own issues, though. Because they're rapid start, not instant start, they dont like cold weather and they dont drive the reduced wattage T8's very well. But, they'll sometimes clear up any interference issues with radios, intercoms, walkie talkies, etc. If I recall, they run a little over 70w.
CD

 

[ng3689]

It would make sense to have rapid start ballasts everywhere except for cold tempurature applications since instant start ballasts cut down on the life of the lamp by a lot.