To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

How do they fasten to the ground? Pole Barn vs. Steel building

BrianM1009

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2021
Messages
7
Hi Guys,
Fairly new here, and new to Garage building. I'm trying to decide between a pole barn and steel building. Unfortunately none of the steel building guys will send me plans without sending them a deposit first.
I know pole barns have their support poles cemented into the ground independently, and a slab can be poured after it's erected.
Is a steel building the same? What kind of footings do they require? In slab or sonotube holes?
I'm in Montgomery County MD. If that matters. looking at 24 X 36 X12
Advice please.
Brian
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

quickfarms

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2021
Messages
1,027
Location
Southern California
OP
B

BrianM1009

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2021
Messages
7
On a steel building the slab is part of the foundation, with extra steel and concrete under each column and typically a thick section around the perimeter that should extend below the frost debth, probably around 3 feet in MD

Here is a sample installation manual and found with a short internet search

Great info, my internet search find was not as complete

Looks like a pole barn will use a lot less concrete.
 

Shiftless

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
14,512
Location
East Bay SFO
I suppose if you don’t need a concrete floor, then a pole barn is the way to go.
What are your expected uses for the building?
 
OP
B

BrianM1009

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2021
Messages
7
I suppose if you don’t need a concrete floor, then a pole barn is the way to go.
What are your expected uses for the building?
I'm going to park cars in there.

I'm not saying no slab, it just seems to me to be far less concrete if you don't have to fill a 3 foot trench around the whole building.
 

racecougar

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
5,017
Location
Missouri
Both post-frame construction and steel/red iron can be built upon full foundations, with or without stem walls, too. It's all about your end goals, preferences, and what the AHJ requires.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Poolshark314

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
Messages
658
Location
MD
I'm going to park cars in there.

I'm not saying no slab, it just seems to me to be far less concrete if you don't have to fill a 3 foot trench around the whole building.
Somebody told you it would require 3 feet of concrete?

Typically a pole barn has posts dug into the ground, and then those are filled in with concrete. A typical concrete slab for a pole barn would be 4". There is no trench around the building.
 
OP
B

BrianM1009

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2021
Messages
7
Somebody told you it would require 3 feet of concrete?

Typically a pole barn has posts dug into the ground, and then those are filled in with concrete. A typical concrete slab for a pole barn would be 4". There is no trench around the building.
Yes that's my point. for a steel garage the drawing call for a full footer. 3 feet+ in Montgomery co. Looks like a pole Barn uses way less concrete with just a 4-6" in slab. I'm putting in a 4 post lift.
 

billconner

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 20, 2021
Messages
6,956
Location
Thousand Islands NYS
If you're going to heat and cool this space, it might make sense to look at a shallow frost protected foundation. It's a thickened edge slab with a little more sub slab insulation - basically a buried "apron" of insulation, guessing 30" or so in MD. If you're not heating ever, it usually doesn't make sense. In any case, not much more concrete than in a pole barn.

Pole barns seem more flexible, amenable to changes and additions, than steel buildings. I personally like that it's wood, and I can easily cut it, though some are equally comfortable cutting steel.

Neither is a 100 year building IMHO, if you care.

And if you do pole barn, you have to come to grips with wood posts underground - which if right grade if pt will outlast most alive today - or add some expense and work and not embed the posts.

Is appearance an issue? HOA or local zoning and design standards?

Just some thoughts.

BTW I opted for stick frame, all local roughsawn lumber, all diy. Loving the work, and the ultra low cost. Not for every retired person but good for me. Besides the cost and enjoyment, I've lost nearly 40 pounds - which I always wanted to loose but this project made it happen.
 

quickfarms

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2021
Messages
1,027
Location
Southern California
Your decision should based on the use, life expectancy and then the cost.
Pole barns are cheaper than red iron.

The ground anchors are for the metal carport buildings

Where I live, due to seismic requirements, a pole barn is not feasible and the metal carports require that same foundation as a building so it will be red iron
 

Firebrick43

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
14,015
Location
West central Indiana
Somebody told you it would require 3 feet of concrete?

Typically a pole barn has posts dug into the ground, and then those are filled in with concrete. A typical concrete slab for a pole barn would be 4". There is no trench around the building.
Typically the post are NOT filled with concrete, but native soil/gravel. No reputable polebarn builder around here will fill along side the wood post with concrete. There will be a concrete footer or cookie. Most will even isolate the slab from the post with some plastic or 1/4" xps foam.

Nearly all builders have a precast concrete product that is similar to the permacolumn. Some such as mortons, Does have the post bottom set in wet concrete but concrete is only to be placed to the bottom of the actual post. Or in other words, the post itself is not installed in the concrete just the steel stirup. This stirup sets the height of the post, and provides uplift protection attached to the poured footer. Permacolumns typically are not set in concrete, but they do sell the stirups if you so desire.

Uplift protection on wood post and the standard permacolumn is handled by uplift cleats attached to the post near the bottom. They are really only needed for the first year or so. After that soils settle and hold the post firmly. Most buildings sucked out of the ground by high winds happens relatively soon after construction.

Both post-frame construction and steel/red iron can be built upon full foundations, with or without stem walls, too. It's all about your end goals, preferences, and what the AHJ requires.
Just to make a significant note if using wet set brackets on post frame foundations. The typical full post buildings take significant bending moment in a pole barn reducing the need for "as much" shear diaphragm's. The wet set brackets do not transfer this bending moment.

Quoted from the Sturdywall plus design manual.

"The standard Sturdi-wall brackets are designed to transfer uplift, shear, and downward forces from the wood post into the concrete foundation and can be installed wet set or post drilled anchors. The standard Studi-wall brackets do not have an ability to transfer any measurable moments from the wood columns to the concrete foundation."

If such wet set brackets are used, the diaphragms in the building must typically be made stronger, with diagonal bracing/strapping or OSB/Ply shear panels in addition to the metal sheathing. This keeps bending moments from happening and transfers it all as shear which the brackets do very well at.
 

jack stand

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
3,324
Location
Lakes Region Maine
I think in your particular county that a wood framed "pole building" would be much more acceptable than a metal building and it's normally very utilitarian architecture. It will be much easier to modify in the future for the next owner if you ever decide to leave that rat race that is the DC area.
I left Frederick Co 15 years ago and can't believe what it's turned into. Like Gaithersburg north.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom