Living room lighting recommendation

[mike93lx]

Edit: project is done, see last post.

We have a living room off the foyer (what I would traditionally refer to as a formal living room...not used a ton) that has no overhead lighting.

About 13'x14' with 9' ceilings. One huge window, facing north

The existing switch (for an outlet) is on the south side, next to the large opening toward the dining room.

I need to confirm that I have constant power to that switch, and assuming I do, I'll replace the box with a 2 gang and feed from that. If I don't , I'll rewire the outlet and just have the single switch. To avoid pulling the crown and patching walls, I want to run wafer LED's.

I'm torn on quantity. I did my last house with mostly 6" and four per room, but never loved coverage. For this, I am thinking 4" and running either 6 or 9 (2 or 3 rows of three), but I could be way off on that. A dimmer will be used with any setup

I don't want any track lighting or a single central fixture

Any recommendations?

 

[jar944]

I did four of the 6" 70 watt pucks, and a chandelier in a similar room. It has plenty of light with just the 4 pucks imho.

 

[kaymccampbell]

We have a living room off the foyer (what I would traditionally refer to as a formal living room...not used a ton) that has no overhead lighting.

About 13'x14' with 9' ceilings. One huge window, facing north

The existing switch (for an outlet) is on the south side, next to the large opening toward the dining room.

I need to confirm that I have constant power to that switch, and assuming I do, I'll replace the box with a 2 gang and feed from that. If I don't , I'll rewire the outlet and just have the single switch. To avoid pulling the crown and patching walls, I want to run wafer LED's.

I'm torn on quantity. I did my last house with mostly 6" and four per room, but never loved coverage. For this, I am thinking 4" and running either 6 or 9 (2 or 3 rows of three), but I could be way off on that. A dimmer will be used with any setup

I don't want any track lighting or a single central fixture

Any recommendations?

3 rows of 3 should give you operating theatre lighting. Pick really bright ones. You can always dim bright lights, you can never bright dim ones.

 

[mike93lx]

I did four of the 6" 70 watt pucks, and a chandelier in a similar room. It has plenty of light with just the 4 pucks imho.

Thanks.

The rooms I did them in previously all had 7.5' ceilings, so.i expect this should be better.

Part of the appeal with doing more is that it would make the wire run perpendicular to the joists easier.

 

[mike93lx]

3 rows of 3 should give you operating theatre lighting. Pick really bright ones. You can always dim bright lights, you can never bright dim ones.

If I did 9, I think i would do the 4", which are 600 lumen, vs 800ish for the 6". Although every other can in the house is 6" , so maybe I should stick with them.

It would be nice to not always have to set the dimmer to half

 

[jar944]

Although every other can in the house is 6"

That's why I used 6" rather than 4" in the new areas.

 

[kaymccampbell]

If I did 9, I think i would do the 4", which are 600 lumen, vs 800ish for the 6". Although every other can in the house is 6" , so maybe I should stick with them.

It would be nice to not always have to set the dimmer to half

I'd do the 9-6" cans. Better to have too much light available than be fumbling around in the dark.

 

[kbeefy]

I'd never heard of wafer lighting.

I have a couple rooms with some ugly fluorescent fixtures I'd like to replace, I think these would be a great option.

 

[jar944]

I'd do the 9-6" cans. Better to have too much light available than be fumbling around in the dark.

That's going to be lot of light. I have six of the 6" in a 14x18' office and I'm rarely above 50% on the dimmer.

 

[kaymccampbell]

That's going to be lot of light. I have six of the 6" in a 14x18' office and I'm rarely above 50% on the dimmer.

Old girls with dim vision need bright lights, what can I say. I'd rather have to turn it down than have to bring a flashlight to find that book I left on the end table.

 

[txvwnut]

My living room is a little bigger than the OP's and I have four 6" recessed cans with 40 watt equivalent LED bulbs and it provides plenty of light. Anything more and it would be lit up like a sports arena.

 

[kaymccampbell]

I like arena lighting.

 

[mike93lx]

I'd do the 9-6" cans. Better to have too much light available than be fumbling around in the dark.

No idea how we have survived with just a basic floor lamp for a year...

 

[mike93lx]

OK, so let's say four 6" lights. How far from the sides do you guys do? 2'?

 

[jar944]

Old girls with dim vision need bright lights, what can I say. I'd rather have to turn it down than have to bring a flashlight to find that book I left on the end table.

Don't disagree on the need for adequate lighting, but i don't find those areas need that much light. On the other hand I used 11 70w pucks (10 + one over the sink) in my kitchen allong two 3 bulb chandeliers.

Work spaces I'm all for over lighting.

 

[Trapps]

I like Kay's 3x3 suggestion. Newer pucks have selectable temperature which also affects perceived and real 'brightness.' More lights also means fewer shadows.

With 4x 6" I would place a 3x3 grind on the ceiling and place them at the intersections. Perhaps consider furniture placement though.

 

[kaymccampbell]

Don't disagree on the need for adequate lighting, but i don't find those areas need that much light. On the other hand I used 11 70w pucks (10 + one over the sink) in my kitchen allong two 3 bulb chandeliers.

Work spaces I'm all for over lighting.

I consider my "over" lighting living spaces as finding and cleaning lighting.

 

[jar944]

OK, so let's say four 6" lights. How far from the sides do you guys do? 2'?

I was 30-48" off the walls depending on the room.

 

[mike93lx]

I like Kay's 3x3 suggestion. Newer pucks have selectable temperature which also affects perceived and real 'brightness.' More lights also means fewer shadows.

With 4x 6" I would place a 3x3 grind on the ceiling and place them at the intersections. Perhaps consider furniture placement though.

I do like the idea of placement that could allow adding more. That said, my family room is a lot larger with 4 6" cans and the kitchen is smaller with 6 6" cans. For what this room will be used for, something in line with the family room really should be fine... Not sure why I wasn't thinking about that room's setup.

 

[mike93lx]

I was 30-48" off the walls depending on the room.

Wow, I originally thought 3' but felt like it might be too far. We don't have any cabinets or built ins right now, but that may change, so bumping them out a bit is probably prudent

 

[Max]

When I added lights in my last house I did the nice symmetric lights in the ceiling thing. But when we remodeled other rooms layer later we used a lighting consultant. (She was free because we bought so much.) Anyway, her point was to put lights in the room as you would use it, and in comparing her results to mine I’d have to agree. For example, a light or two over a sofa. Or one close to the edge of a wall where you wanted to highlight pictures.

I am with Kay where I like a lot of light, but you don’t want some kind of over-lit sterile operating room look either. Give yourself good overall light, and brighter light where you need it.

 

[mike93lx]

I'd never heard of wafer lighting.

I have a couple rooms with some ugly fluorescent fixtures I'd like to replace, I think these would be a great option.

I have used a couple styles. There are some that have the lense flush with the surface and are 1/2" thick. These work well if you have a joist running through the opening. There are others that have the lense recessed a bit making them 3/4" thick. If you have a strapped ceiling, or can make sure to miss joists, these look a lot better, IMO.

These are likely the ones I will use for this project

Commercial Electric Slim Baffle 6 in. Color Selectable New Construction and Remodel Canless Recessed Integrated LED Kit

Commercial Electric Slim Baffle Integrated LED 6 in Round Adj Color Temp Canless Recessed Light for Kitchen Bath Living rooms, White 91479 - The Home Depot

Upgrade your home with Commercial Electric Slim Baffle Color Selectable New Construction and Remodel Canless Recessed Integrated LED Kit.

www.homedepot.com

SKU# 310114087

 

[mike93lx]

When I added lights in my last house I did the nice symmetric lights in the ceiling thing. But when we remodeled other rooms layer later we used a lighting consultant. She was free because we bought so much.) Anyway, her point was to put lights in the room as you would use it, and in comparing her results to mine I’d have to agree. For example, a light or two over a sofa. Or one close to the edge of a wall where you wanted to highlight pictures.

I am with Kay where I like a lot of light, but you don’t want some kind of over-lit sterile operating room look either. Give yourself good overall light, and brighter light where you need it.

Great feedback, thanks. The challenge with this room is we don't really use it right now and definitely don't have the furniture that we want to have long term.

The idea is to make it a bit of a craft room for the kids, so a table, maybe a small couch, probably a reading chair. But I see it changing over time.

While I like the idea of catering the lighting to the room, I struggle with doing that based around furniture as it changes and can move. It's a different story to do lighting for stuff like a fireplace, permanent/semipermanent furniture, and artwork...that stuff makes sense to highlight

 

[Max]

Great feedback, thanks. The challenge with this room is we don't really use it right now and definitely don't have the furniture that we want to have long term.

The idea is to make it a bit of a craft room for the kids, so a table, maybe a small couch, probably a reading chair. But I see it changing over time.

While I like the idea of catering the lighting to the room, I struggle with doing that based around furniture as it changes and can move. It's a different story to do lighting for stuff like a fireplace, permanent/semipermanent furniture, and artwork...that stuff makes sense to highlight

You make good points. I suspect that is why a lot of folks use track lighting so they can re-configure. I have seen LED lamps on gimbals that would give some adjustability, but obviously not on pucks. And the gimbal lights tend to be dimmer as well.

One option to think of would be to use Lutron remote controls (or similar if you prefer zigbee, etc.). Something like this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-...g-Lights-White-P-PKG1W-WH-R/206754146#overlay

The above would let you turn the lights off and on as a two groups rather than just all of them at once. I’ve used them twice - one to add another switch to a 3-way that the previous owners put behind a door (!), and the other was to control puck lights in the MBR that I added. The nice thing is the remotes can be mounted on a wall so they look like a regular switch, or you can just put the remote on a table, or both. And if you want two switches on the wall - no problem. The remotes use a coin battery and so far it’s 3 years on the original battery so far…

 

[sparky 1971]

If it were me, I would shoot for about 30" off the side walls. Whatever works out between 24 & 36" and both rows are the same distance off. That's going to be dependent on the framing. Probably only use four lights, the room isn't all that large and a center row could be added if needed. As far as lights, use whatever you want. I would be using old school can lights for one reason. The wife and I both like warm light. The warmer the better. I get 2400K R30 lamps for my cans. The ceiling fans have old school looking fixtures with what looks like mason jars for glass and those have 2200K lamps. The seven decorative fixtures on the outside of the house and garage have 2200K corn lamps. In fact, the only fixture that isn't extra warm is the flood light on the back of the garage that rarely gets used. It's 3000K.

I just looked at your picture. Looks like it's a two story. How in the world are you going to do that without tearing up the ceiling? I know you stated wafer lights to keep from patching walls and removing crown moulding, but unless there's something I don't know about (and it's very possible with the limited amount of resi work I do), you still need to get the romex above the ceiling.

 

[mike93lx]

If it were me, I would shoot for about 30" off the side walls. Whatever works out between 24 & 36" and both rows are the same distance off. That's going to be dependent on the framing. Probably only use four lights, the room isn't all that large and a center row could be added if needed. As far as lights, use whatever you want. I would be using old school can lights for one reason. The wife and I both like warm light. The warmer the better. I get 2400K R30 lamps for my cans. The ceiling fans have old school looking fixtures with what looks like mason jars for glass and those have 2200K lamps. The seven decorative fixtures on the outside of the house and garage have 2200K corn lamps. In fact, the only fixture that isn't extra warm is the flood light on the back of the garage that rarely gets used. It's 3000K.

I just looked at your picture. Looks like it's a two story. How in the world are you going to do that without tearing up the ceiling? I know you stated wafer lights to keep from patching walls and removing crown moulding, but unless there's something I don't know about (and it's very possible with the limited amount of resi work I do), you still need to get the romex above the ceiling.

I really don't like 2700k and less anymore. All the current ceiling lighting is 3000k. I do 4000k in tbe garage. These fixtures are selectable, down to 2700k and up to something inappropriate, like 5000k.

There is an in ceiling speaker above the switch. I am hoping that by taking that out, I can get in there enough with a little right angle m12 drill to make it work.

I REALLY don't want to take the crown down

2nd picture below is standing next to the switch in the opening to the dining room

This is the time when I miss having strapping for the ceiling. Made going across a room easy.

 

[sparky 1971]

I really don't like 2700k and less anymore. All the current ceiling lighting is 3000k. I do 4000k in tbe garage. These fixtures are selectable, down to 2700k and up to something inappropriate, like 5000k.

There is an in ceiling speaker above the switch. I am hoping that by taking that out, I can get in there enough with a little right angle m12 drill to make it work.

I REALLY don't want to take the crown down

2nd picture below is standing next to the switch in the opening to the dining room

This is the time when I miss having strapping for the ceiling. Made going across a room easy.

If you can get into the ceiling through the speaker, that's fantastic. But, you still have to get through the framing to go one direction.

When I did more residential service people would ask about lighting that are in a similar situation as you. I would tell them to put the ceiling in a dumpster, then give me a call and I'd do whatever they wanted, lighting wise.

 

[jar944]

Not the best but it gives you an idea what 4 lights are like.

 

[mike93lx]

If you can get into the ceiling through the speaker, that's fantastic. But, you still have to get through the framing to go one direction.

When I did more residential service people would ask about lighting that are in a similar situation as you. I would tell them to put the ceiling in a dumpster, then give me a call and I'd do whatever they wanted, lighting wise.

Drilling through the joists is why I posted about recommendations on 1/4 bit extensions that's also part of why I was thinking more than 4 lights...if I add some in the middle, I get another access point instead of having to drill across 8' of joists.

 

[sparky 1971]

I've always been terrified of drilling through joists without knowing what's on the other side. Water lines, wires, duct work, etc. are almost guaranteed to be right where my bit is going to go through. That's why I say no, without saying no.

 

[mike93lx]

I've always been terrified of drilling through joists without know what's on the other side. Water lines, wires, duct work, etc. are almost guaranteed to be right where my bit is going to go through. That's why I say no, without saying no.

Smart move.

In this case, it is below a bedroom, on the corner of the house. No plumbing or ductwork is in danger and there sure as **** shouldn't be wiring. That said, I'll find it if there is, but that's what circuit breakers are for, right?

 

[sparky 1971]

Smart move.

In this case, it is below a bedroom, on the corner of the house. No plumbing or ductwork is in danger and there sure as **** shouldn't be wiring. That said, I'll find it if there is, but that's what circuit breakers are for, right?

Yep. And those phony inline splice kits that I've seen advertised. I hope to never have to touch on or even think about having to use one.

 

[mike93lx]

Yep. And those phony inline splice kits that I've seen advertised. I hope to never have to touch on or even think about having to use one.

I'd rather (and always have) use two boxes if I couldn't replace one end of the run

 

[sparky 1971]

I'd rather (and always have) use two boxes if I couldn't replace one end of the run

I may or may not have an open splice or two in my basement.

 

[mike93lx]

I may or may not have an open splice or two in my basement.

Mechanics drive ****** cars, right?

Between this and the 100a breaker, you.may be human

 

[klassenl]

I consider my "over" lighting living spaces as finding and cleaning lighting.

Me too.

 

[yeldogt]

IMO -- there is no worse way to light a space than random recessed.

IE - Spaced out in a room. No --- I take that back. Using those surface mounted LED things spaced out in a room are worse .... suitable for a closet maybe.

What is the goal? Do you want to turn it into a work room ? Good lighting is layered lighting -- good recessed should light up things not the ceiling .... you should not see the light source. Recessed is part of a rooms layered lighting.

There is a ton of great small LED directional products today

 

[mike93lx]

IMO -- there is no worse way to light a space than random recessed.

IE - Spaced out in a room. No --- I take that back. Using those surface mounted LED things spaced out in a room are worse .... suitable for a closet maybe.

What is the goal? Do you want to turn it into a work room ? Good lighting is layered lighting -- good recessed should light up things not the ceiling .... you should not see the light source. Recessed is part of a rooms layered lighting.

There is a ton of great small LED directional products today

The reality is that I'm trying to solve for some lighting so that my kids can do crafts. Nothing in this room needs to make it into a decoratoring magazine.

I just simply can't bring myself to spend a bunch of money on "nice" light fixtures and I am definitely not hiring a lighting designer for this one.

I'm the kind of guy that buys non custom cellular blinds instead of layered curtains or nice plantation shutters. "pretty" isn't what I want to spend my money on.

Just trying to be realistic.

 

[yeldogt]

The reality is that I'm trying to solve for some lighting so that my kids can do crafts. Nothing in this room needs to make it into a decoratoring magazine.

I just simply can't bring myself to spend a bunch of money on "nice" light fixtures and I am definitely not hiring a lighting designer for this one.

I'm the kind of guy that buys non custom cellular blinds instead of layered curtains or nice plantation shutters. "pretty" isn't what I want to spend my money on.

Just trying to be realistic.

Have your wife buy it

 

[mike93lx]

Have your wife buy it

Oh yeah, asking her to spend the money will definitely make it less stressful!