Designing a shop with an apartment?

[zimm17]

First off I have no idea what I'm talking or thinking about when it comes to building a shop. Of course the bigger the better, but I'm trying to be realistic with my needs. My business focuses on working on small fiberglass travel trailers. One at a time, usually done the same day. So a pull through building with a door at each end would be ideal so a customer can pull in, drop the trailer, and off they go. I also want enough room to work and play with my toys, I work on 4x4's and jeeps too. Simple stuff, but having a 2 post lift would be awesome. Room for work benches, welding, tools, etc too. When I don't have a camper to work on, I can park my big pick up truck in there to stay out of the weather.

The campers I work on only need a 10' door for clearance. However maybe I should do a 12 or 14 footer so I can pull anything through?

Secondly, I'm going to need an apartment/in-law suite for visiting friends and relatives. Something very simple like a one room studio with a 3/4 bath with shower stall. Put in a mini-split heat pump and that should take care of HVAC.

At first I was thinking a second floor- as they say, going up is cheaper than going out. However with tall doors- I'm looking at a 14 or 16' ceiling on the first floor. Maybe I can carve a corner out and put the apartment on the ground floor? That would especially be helpful if my parents or in-laws come to stay, because they're old and getting older.

Decent idea or dumb? What size shop should I be thinking? Will putting a big door on each end of the building be enough? I'm thinking that would simplify the design and cut down on cost vs multiple bay doors. If the building is big enough, I should be able to pull a jeep in and angle it into a corner with the lift and still have a camper lined up down the middle or side?

Finally, carports off both sides. One to cover up my tractor collection and keep a utility trailer and stuff out of the weather. The other side could be an RV pad with hookups so a customer could spend the night if need be. Or I could do a separate stand alone carport further away if that makes more sense.

 

[southalabama]

Check out RR Buildings on YouTube for ideas.

 

[southalabama]

 

[zimm17]

Yeah, so maybe a mini-barndominium.... I still to have to afford to build a whole house after I build the shop. I'm hoping to live in the shop while the house is under construction.

 

[MushCreek]

I did something like that with our barn, although there's no way to pull through. I built a 28 X 48 barn, and partitioned off the back 16 feet, creating a 16 X 28 great room. I put tongue and groove on the walls, added windows, and insulated. There's a full bath, which I needed for the shop anyway. I put in a mini-split, and can keep it fairly comfortable. The ceiling is 22'. There's a loft over the shop, so the ceiling in there is 12'+. Actually, the loft could make a nice apartment at 20 X 32, with an 8' ceiling. I just use it for storage. My shop is about 28 X 28; big enough for an old fart tinkering with stuff. Originally, I was going to put a lift in it, but I'm too old now to really use a lift much. With all of my tools, the shop is 'full'.

 

[southalabama]

Yeah, so maybe a mini-barndominium.... I still to have to afford to build a whole house after I build the shop. I'm hoping to live in the shop while the house is under construction.

That was my plan too. Should have done it while single. Once married that plan met with too much obstruction and neither got done. Finally around to working on my shop. It’s 40x60.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Will this be in Japan? I imagine there are many differences in building types, regulations, etc. than what we see in the US.

 

[u2slow]

Check your zoning and bylaws first!

I wasn't allowed a living space or a bath/shower in my shop. Or conversely, having a dwelling as part of the garage prevents you from building a separate house.

 

[kj_mustang]

Your welcome to check out my build for second floor apartment ideas.

 

[CraigStu]

Stuart and u2slow have the right idea. In the US as soon as a building has any kind of living quarters in it the zoning regulations change tremendously.

 

[pcmeiners]

As to the regulations changing once it has living quarter, see if this can be manipulated with a party wall between the shop and living quarters such is done with duplex homes or town houses.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Like mentioned above, check with your local AHJ to before you get too far. You may not be able to mix residential with commercial or you may have to follow a different set of guidelines.

 

[dcg9381]

The campers I work on only need a 10' door for clearance. However maybe I should do a 12 or 14 footer so I can pull anything through?

If you have an "RV habit" like me, just do the 14' door. If it drives down the road, you can get it in. You don't want to upgrade RVs in the future and have it kept out of your shop. My current truck camper is over 12' high. The 5th wheel was closer to 13'.

You're absolutely right about building up vs building out. A 14' door requires a 16' eve (typically). I have a 40' wide shop with two 14' doors in front. RVs can only go through the right side. I have another 14' door on the other end, so you can drive a truck/5th wheel through. The left side, with a 16' eve, that's "just enough" to do a 2nd story mezzanine / apartment.

Here's my floor plan for an apartment that I did above the garage (not the shop) - but the concept is the same - it's roughly 40x17'. Our shop has a kitchen downstairs, so when we do build "up" in the shop - we can exclude that part.

 

[dchawk81]

Just build a big room and put a cot and a bucket in the corner.

 

[dcg9381]

That was my plan too. Should have done it while single. Once married that plan met with too much obstruction and neither got done. Finally around to working on my shop. It’s 40x60.

I built a 40x60 before a house. Once Covid hit, we decided to bail on our lease and just "tough it out" in the shop. My spouse was absolutely great about it (although it did have it's challenges)... Challenges being things like convincing your spouse to use a port-o-potty for a year.. But it saved us a good $20k easily.


OP, listen to the others on zoning and by-laws (if any) first. The last thing you want is to build something that they make you tear down. I intentionally bought in the county (outside of the city) so I could do what I want. I put ZERO windows in the shop so that the tax assessor can't see into it and any appraisers we've had out, I do not let them into the building. Having two "habitable" structures can cause mortgage issues also. I've had lenders that got sideways on me over the garage apartment, even without telling them about the shop. The downside is that the shop gets appraised at 25-50% of what it cost to build about 4 years ago.

 

[zimm17]

I’m in Japan now but my wife is retiring from the Navy next year and we’re moving to Vermont. Wife wants to send me ahead of time to get the house built then they’ll come out.

I didn’t think of multiple dwelling zoning. Another idea is to build the house with two primary suites, on on each floor plus 2 bedrooms upstairs for kids. Then our parents can visit whenever or one could live with us if/when it becomes that time. No old folks home for them. They won’t need their own kitchen just a bedroom with a seating area and bathroom.

What about an oversized garage for the house vice a separate shop building? 3 bays one with rv sized door? Move the cars out when I need the shop.

So I could do the shop first, and live on a futon and use a portapotty (shower?j or get a travel trailer and live in that on-site while construction gets underway.

Unfortunately we had to sell all our toys to move overseas so I’ll have to buy everything all over again.

 

[u2slow]

I'm not in a city and still there's bylaws, zoning, and required permits.

Check carefully.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Some places will not allow a garage/shop to be built without a house on the property. That's one thing you need to check on.

Is the RV business, a real business or side hustle ? If it's the latter, you may be able to get by with more leniency.

Definitely go with the taller height so you can get a 14' door in.

 

[ned911]

I am in the county but close enough to the city where they can "flex" their rules. Complete BS but cities do that **** all the time.

 

[CraigStu]

An oversized garage for the house is a great idea. I may be weird but I really like our attached garage. We are retired like it sounds like you will be and it is nice that my wife can walk through a door from the kitchen whenever she wants to chat. It is also nice for me because I can use the house bathroom. Three car garages are more and more common so it will get you away from all the hassles re; zoning and banking of doing a separate garage. You can get away from the huge slab look of the three doors by offsetting the third bay back 3-4 ft. One oversized door may look weird though on the front of your house. Could you have 3 normal doors in front and the large one on the back side? You could pull the trailer in from the back and, if you need to leave it longer, the car/truck could be disconnected and driven out the front. Might need a little more than normal of your back yard used up but, if the trailers are not too heavy, some gravel in the grass might be enough. Additionally it is quite common to have a bedroom over the garage so you could do that but leave it un- or minimally finished to use as storage. Also think about making the garage deeper than normal to get sq footage that doesn't make the house look bad because of extra wide garage.

 

[mepstein]

I would build the shop with an “office” a full bath to “”clean up” a space to “prepare” meals and “storage” space with a bed for a mid day nap, closet for work clothes and windows looking out at a view. Give it its own hvac for efficiency. Of course the office needs a separate entry/exit for safety. So it’s not an apartment to live in, just a very versatile office for people to hang out as long as they want.

 

[Boatman62]

Here is mine, monitor style. Contemplated this for a year. The main building is 42 wide x 36 deep. The wings are another 10 each. Originally the stairs were inside but quickly realized they were taking up too much valuable floor space so added the deck and stairs on the rear. Upstairs is a full guest quarters/break room. I'm still working on cabinets but it's got a full kitchen, full bathroom with a large shower and bedroom.

 

[cannuck]

One of my friends in BC did this by making the area a second floor above a 3 car separate garage a genuine office space, but easily converted in a few minutes to a guest suite. We want to put a mezzanine in our new shop and my wife would like us to move in until house is built, but that will NOT fit local zoning (we are ag) at all.

To the OP, though: if you make you garage 2 full bays wide (thinking 24') and full 16' sidewalls you could have a mezzanine on one side with a good work area beneath and a full height that would take a 10 x 14' pair of drivethrough doors. Length whatever you can afford (2 vehicles long IMHO being ideal minimum). Of course 2 post hoist on high side.

 

[u2slow]

Another bylaw quirk can be a (restrictive) max sqft'age limit for an accessory building. That's one more reason to keep it attached to the house.

One way to pitch it to the AHJ is a plan for a garage-attached house, but where the garage has sufficient structure to be freestanding, and is built first.

 

[brownbagg]

why not builld a huge pole barn up against your house, walk out the kitchen door and you in the shop

 

[rayra]

Depending on building codes, you're probably better off building a pole barn and parking a camper inside it, while the house is built.

 

[aggie113]

I could only do 1200sqft as a detached structure so I went 18" to the rafters. Finances permitting the plans are to put an independently supported second story over about half of the garage floor, with maybe additional storage along where space away from the lift permits. Planning on putting water in and had a rough in installed in the slab for a future bathroom/shower on the bottom floor. Such plans have to wait as this year the house is getting new siding and replacing a 4 head mini split system that went bad this summer $$$

 

[zimm17]

Since we're starting from scratch, I'm thinking an oversized, 3 bay garage connected to the house via a breezeway/mudroom. That way I can be between the house and garage without going out into the weather. Also that negates the need to have a bathroom for the shop if there's a 1/2 bath just inside the house. We're thinking if we design a master/ensuite both upstairs and downstairs, then we don' t need an apartment and parents/guests can stay on the main floor. Then we can use the upstairs suite as well as having 2 more bedrooms upstairs that share a bathroom for the kids.

I'm thinking about using an RV to stay on the property during construction, but the issue is a nice trailer like an Airstream will **** up a good chunk of the money we have saved for this project. But then after construction we have an RV to use on vacations. Also if we build a pad, pole barn roof and hookups for it, it can be used as guest space too for visitors.

 

[rayra]

The whole thing isn't making any sense.

Who's watching the kids while your wife works in Japan?

why would you buy 'a nice trailer like an Airstream' for a temporary dwelling during construction? Unless you have fantasies of trailer-traveling the country with it later on, it's a major useless expense. Build the pole barn / workshop, by the cheapest smallest camper trailer you can stand, for the construction. Isn't it just you living in it? Thing doesn't even have to be waterproof, being parked in a barn.

I'm also amused at the plan to have a breezeway in Vermont's winters.

I think you need to reconsider your entire plan. And probably find a house to rent nearby to your build site. Especially as it will take longer than you think to have the new place ready to move into.

 

[zimm17]

The whole thing isn't making any sense.

Ok

Who's watching the kids while your wife works in Japan?

Kids would stay with her here in Japan. They're 10 and 12, they can walk to and from school by themselves. We live on base, it's a pretty safe place and mom works close by.

why would you buy 'a nice trailer like an Airstream' for a temporary dwelling during construction? Unless you have fantasies of trailer-traveling the country with it later on, it's a major useless expense. Build the pole barn / workshop, by the cheapest smallest camper trailer you can stand, for the construction. Isn't it just you living in it? Thing doesn't even have to be waterproof, being parked in a barn.

Good point

I'm also amused at the plan to have a breezeway in Vermont's winters.

Okay, maybe I need a new term. Not an open breezeway, but an enclosed mud room with outside door and passage from garage to house.

I think you need to reconsider your entire plan. And probably find a house to rent nearby to your build site. Especially as it will take longer than you think to have the new place ready to move into.

One factor we didn't... well factor in is that builders have a backlog. I haven't contacted a builder yet, but reading on their websites that they might not even be able to start a project for a year is not something we accounted for.

 

[mepstein]

Custom homes take a lot of time. From start to finish it can take years depending on permits, approvals, variances and designs, builders and weather.
I would also see what’s out there that you could modify to your needs.